His career numbers, so far:
.301 BA 137 HR 686 RBI .369 OBS .838 OPS .469 SLG
4-time All-Star.
It's your call.
Is Victor Martinez a HOF'er?
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Is Victor Martinez a HOF'er?
posted at 7/7/2011 11:26 AM EDT
- harness
- Posts: 19880
- First: 10/16/2007
- Last: 10/28/2011
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Re: Is Victor Martinez a HOF'er?
posted at 7/7/2011 11:35 AM EDT
- playball01
- Posts: 2556
- First: 12/21/2005
- Last: 9/20/2011
In Response to Is Victor Martinez a HOF'er?:His career numbers, so far: .301 BA 137 HR 686 RBI .369 OBS .838 OPS .469 SLG 4-time All-Star. It's your call.
Posted by harness
Oh stop!! What position would he go in as? He certainly isn't a highly skilled catcher, nor is he a top 10 first baseman. Furthermore, if his stats are reflective of the DH position then it becomes even more questionable. -
Re: Is Victor Martinez a HOF'er?
posted at 7/7/2011 11:43 AM EDT
- playball01
- Posts: 2556
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- Last: 9/20/2011
In Response to Re: Is Victor Martinez a HOF'er?:Do you have a Harness agenda? Should I change the title? Child.
Posted by harness
Who you speaking to? Did the Burrito pop in and then delete his response? -
Re: Is Victor Martinez a HOF'er?
posted at 7/7/2011 11:47 AM EDT
- BurritoT
- Posts: 8051
- First: 9/29/2009
- Last: 6/19/2012
No he is talking to himself..... as usual. -
Re: Is Victor Martinez a HOF'er?
posted at 7/7/2011 11:48 AM EDT
- tbrod
- Posts: 767
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No, but has anyone noticed what a dominant pitcher Justin Masterson has become? He made the Yanks look weak last night and his ERA is 2.88. -
Re: Is Victor Martinez a HOF'er?
posted at 7/7/2011 11:51 AM EDT
- harness
- Posts: 19880
- First: 10/16/2007
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In Response to Re: Is Victor Martinez a HOF'er?:In Response to Re: Is Victor Martinez a HOF'er? : Who you speaking to? Did the Burrito pop in and then delete his response?
Posted by playball01
C'mon. Do I really need to answer that? Of course he did.
VMART's best bet to get in as catcher. If the voters use this as criteria, as they usually do, don't you think he'll get in with a few more years as DH to pad his "catching numbers"? -
Re: Is Victor Martinez a HOF'er?
posted at 7/7/2011 12:00 PM EDT
- playball01
- Posts: 2556
- First: 12/21/2005
- Last: 9/20/2011
In Response to Re: Is Victor Martinez a HOF'er?:In Response to Re: Is Victor Martinez a HOF'er? : C'mon. Do I really need to answer that? Of course he did. VMART's best bet to get in as catcher. If the voters use this as criteria, as they usually do, don't you think he'll get in with a few more years as DH to pad his "catching numbers"?
Posted by harness
Possibly, BUT, my issue comes from being an old school baseball guy and truly believing in the fact that if a player isn't in the upper echelon at a specific position(s) that the player shouldn't be included as one of the best at that position.
Maybe I have just become soured on how various awards are handed out.
Not to change the subject but I used to favor fans being directly responsible for the fielding of the allstar teams but now that the winning league is awarded with home field advantage for the World Series I think that the criteria for choosing the participating players should also change.
Home field advantage is a big deal! -
Re: Is Victor Martinez a HOF'er?
posted at 7/7/2011 12:01 PM EDT
- nhsteven
- Posts: 11589
- First: 9/23/2005
- Last: 6/20/2013
Sorry, harness; I disagree. There are only 13 catcher's in the HOF, and all could man the tools of ignorance quite well (Which he really can't). Also, a .301 Lifetime BA in the era he played in is not exactly immortal. And now I'm about to show my Yankee bone: If Munson & E. Howard never got close, I think that says something right there. (FTR, I always thought Berra was overrated). I could think of other outstandig receivers who never got even a whiff: Freehan, Parrish, Sundberg, Torre, and others right now I can't recall. I would think Varitek has a better chance, and even in his case I believe he's a long shot. -
Re: Is Victor Martinez a HOF'er?
posted at 7/7/2011 12:04 PM EDT
- harness
- Posts: 19880
- First: 10/16/2007
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Steve, why would you say Tek has a better chance. His offensive numbers fail in comparison. Isn't that what the voters prioritize? And in that context, why do you think Munson/Howard never got in? -
Re: Is Victor Martinez a HOF'er?
posted at 7/7/2011 12:11 PM EDT
- Alibiike
- Posts: 3097
- First: 2/1/2011
- Last: 6/3/2013
His defensive numbers are pretty much comparable to Piazza. Is Piazza a HOFer? -
Re: Is Victor Martinez a HOF'er?
posted at 7/7/2011 12:14 PM EDT
- nhsteven
- Posts: 11589
- First: 9/23/2005
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In Response to Re: Is Victor Martinez a HOF'er?:Steve , why would you say Tek has a better chance. His offensive numbers fail in comparison. Isn't that what the voters prioritize? And in that context, why do you think Munson/Howard never got in?
Posted by harnessBecause defensive prowess at C seems to ring true with the voters, and always did (see Ray Schalk); VMart is barely adequate behind the dish; in Munson & Howard's case, perhaps it's because they didn't play long enough; but they weren't even close in the voting. -
Re: Is Victor Martinez a HOF'er?
posted at 7/7/2011 12:14 PM EDT
- nhsteven
- Posts: 11589
- First: 9/23/2005
- Last: 6/20/2013
In Response to Re: Is Victor Martinez a HOF'er?:His defensive numbers are pretty much comparable to Piazza. Is Piazza a HOFer?
Posted by AlibiikeAre u kidding? -
Re: Is Victor Martinez a HOF'er?
posted at 7/7/2011 12:18 PM EDT
- harness
- Posts: 19880
- First: 10/16/2007
- Last: 10/28/2011
In Response to Re: Is Victor Martinez a HOF'er?:In Response to Re: Is Victor Martinez a HOF'er? : Because defensive prowess at C seems to ring true with the voters, and always did (see Ray Schalk); VMart is barely adequate behind the dish; in Munson & Howard's case, perhaps it's because they didn't play long enough; but they weren't even close in the voting.
Posted by nhsteven
Then let me ask you this: If a catcher has mediocre/decent numbers offensively, say like Tek, but is seen as a defensive stand-out with glaring credentials, would you think the voters would allow equal importance to them? -
Re: Is Victor Martinez a HOF'er?
posted at 7/7/2011 12:19 PM EDT
- Camelwalk
- Posts: 1371
- First: 6/3/2011
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In Response to Re: Is Victor Martinez a HOF'er?:No, but has anyone noticed what a dominant pitcher Justin Masterson has become? He made the Yanks look weak last night and his ERA is 2.88.
Posted by tbrod
Is Justin Masterson a HOF'er? -
Re: Is Victor Martinez a HOF'er?
posted at 7/7/2011 12:21 PM EDT
- nhsteven
- Posts: 11589
- First: 9/23/2005
- Last: 6/20/2013
In Response to Re: Is Victor Martinez a HOF'er?:In Response to Re: Is Victor Martinez a HOF'er? : Then let me ask you this: If a catcher has mediocre/decent numbers offensively, say like Tek, but is seen as a defensive stand-out with glaring credentials, would you think the voters would allow equal importance to them?
Posted by harnessI would say it's about 40/60, but it's JMO. Catcher is a brutal position; it even got Bench; obviously, Fisk was an animal (What's funny about that was he was injury prone when he was young)The only other position where this would apply is SS. 3B some too; if B Robby was a butcher, or even average with the glove, he wouldn't be in the HOF. -
Re: Is Victor Martinez a HOF'er?
posted at 7/7/2011 12:23 PM EDT
- nhsteven
- Posts: 11589
- First: 9/23/2005
- Last: 6/20/2013
In Response to Re: Is Victor Martinez a HOF'er?:In Response to Re: Is Victor Martinez a HOF'er? : Is Justin Masterson a HOF'er?
Posted by CamelwalkThe RS may regret that trade in the long haul; he's downright nasty, with a 96 MPH sinker that's a better pitch than Wang ever had apparently. -
Re: Is Victor Martinez a HOF'er?
posted at 7/7/2011 12:24 PM EDT
- snakeoil123
- Posts: 5803
- First: 4/4/2011
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Ted Simmons...285 lifetime average 248 home runs and 1389 RBI's.Not in the HOF.Lance Parrish 3 gold gloves 324 home runs.Not in the HOF.I get that this is a Red Sox board but why the Varitek, Martinez HOF threads? Unless Parrish and Simmons get in there is no way that Tek and Vmart even sniff it. -
Re: Is Victor Martinez a HOF'er?
posted at 7/7/2011 12:25 PM EDT
- nhsteven
- Posts: 11589
- First: 9/23/2005
- Last: 6/20/2013
In Response to Re: Is Victor Martinez a HOF'er?:Ted Simmons...285 lifetime average 248 home runs and 1389 RBI's. Not in the HOF. Lance Parrish 3 gold gloves 324 home runs. Not in the HOF. I get that this is a Red Sox board but why the Varitek, Martinez HOF threads? Unless Parrish and Simmons get in there is no way that Tek and Vmart even sniff it.
Posted by snakeoil123I realized I forgot Simmons in my earlier post; agreed. -
Re: Is Victor Martinez a HOF'er?
posted at 7/7/2011 12:27 PM EDT
- WilcyMoore
- Posts: 224
- First: 7/15/2010
- Last: 7/23/2012
In Response to Re: Is Victor Martinez a HOF'er?:Steve , why would you say Tek has a better chance. His offensive numbers fail in comparison. Isn't that what the voters prioritize? And in that context, why do you think Munson/Howard never got in?
Posted by harness
Don't know how Steve might answer, but Munson did not get into the Hall of Fame because his career was cut short by a tragedy. Howard did not get in because his career was cut short by segregation and having to wait much longer than he would have with most other teams to get an opportunity to play on a regular basis. He had to wait for Berra to stop being an everyday catcher to be promoted. The major obstacle for him was lack of opportunity. Both were very good players, but neither was Hall of Fame worthy based on their resumes. Victor Martinez would have to go back to be a full-time catcher and have a least a half dozen or more really impressive seasons offensively to minimally warrant consideration. Certainly not very likely and his chances probably are about in the same category as Varitek's (does not have a snowball's chance.....) -
Re: Is Victor Martinez a HOF'er?
posted at 7/7/2011 12:28 PM EDT
- nhsteven
- Posts: 11589
- First: 9/23/2005
- Last: 6/20/2013
In Response to Re: Is Victor Martinez a HOF'er?:In Response to Re: Is Victor Martinez a HOF'er? : Possibly, BUT, my issue comes from being an old school baseball guy and truly believing in the fact that if a player isn't in the upper echelon at a specific position(s) that the player shouldn't be included as one of the best at that position. Maybe I have just become soured on how various awards are handed out. Not to change the subject but I used to favor fans being directly responsible for the fielding of the allstar teams but now that the winning league is awarded with home field advantage for the World Series I think that the criteria for choosing the participating players should also change. Home field advantage is a big deal!
Posted by playball01IMO it should be a player vote; and it should be 25, not 34; you don't get in, too bad. (Sabathia is actually glad he's not in). With one exception; any teams who have no representatives should be supplemented with 1 auxiliary pick per affected team as selected by the Mgr; this has recently been under scrutiny, but I believe in that. -
Re: Is Victor Martinez a HOF'er?
posted at 7/7/2011 12:30 PM EDT
- nhsteven
- Posts: 11589
- First: 9/23/2005
- Last: 6/20/2013
In Response to Re: Is Victor Martinez a HOF'er?:In Response to Re: Is Victor Martinez a HOF'er? : Don't know how Steve might answer, but Munson did not get into the Hall of Fame because his career was cut short by a tragedy. Howard did not get in because his career was cut short by segregation and having to wait much longer than he would have with most other teams to get an opportunity to play on a regular basis. He had to wait for Berra to stop being an everyday catcher to be promoted. The major obstacle for him was lack of opportunity. Both were very good players, but neither was Hall of Fame worthy based on their resumes. Victor Martinez would have to go back to be a full-time catcher have a least a half more really impressive seasons offensively to minimally warrant consideration. Certainly not very likely and probably about in the same category as Varitek's (does not have a snowball's chance.....)
Posted by WilcyMooreAnd VMart would have to play like Bill Dickey defensively for those 6 seasons; not likely.As far as Howard & Munson, I mentioned that their careers were too short. -
Re: Is Victor Martinez a HOF'er?
posted at 7/7/2011 12:33 PM EDT
- harness
- Posts: 19880
- First: 10/16/2007
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In Response to Re: Is Victor Martinez a HOF'er?:Ted Simmons...285 lifetime average 248 home runs and 1389 RBI's. Not in the HOF. Lance Parrish 3 gold gloves 324 home runs. Not in the HOF. I get that this is a Red Sox board but why the Varitek, Martinez HOF threads? Unless Parrish and Simmons get in there is no way that Tek and Vmart even sniff it.
Posted by snakeoil123
VMART has/will have better numbers than Parish/Simmons. Keep in mind, his career is still going strong. You have to project his stats over the next 4 years.
The reason for the HOF threads? I didn't start the Tek one, but posters were in agreement Tek didn't have the offensive numbers to sniff the HOF.
Now I see that VMART doesn't have the credibility either, despite the fact he's a
.300 hitter. Currently, only Mauer is among that elite status, and Mauer could very well be in the HOF. So, why not VMART?
If voters won't consider VMART as a legit entry due to his defensive drawbacks, how can they not consider Tek since he's the polar opposite in that same area? -
Re: Is Victor Martinez a HOF'er?
posted at 7/7/2011 12:37 PM EDT
- nhsteven
- Posts: 11589
- First: 9/23/2005
- Last: 6/20/2013
In Response to Re: Is Victor Martinez a HOF'er?:In Response to Re: Is Victor Martinez a HOF'er? : VMART has/will have better numbers than Parish/Simmons. Keep in mind, his career is still going strong. You have to project his stats over the next 4 years. The reason for the HOF threads? I didn't start the Tek one, but posters were in agreement Tek didn't have the offensive numbers to sniff the HOF. Now I see that VMART doesn't have the credibility either, despite the fact he's a .300 hitter. Currently, only Mauer is among that elite status, and Mauer could very well be in the HOF. So, why not VMART? If voters won't consider VMART as a legit entry due to his defensive drawbacks, how can they not consider Tek since he's the polar opposite in that same area?
Posted by harnessSeriously? Mauer is an elite defensive catcher, and was the 1st catcher in 70 years to win a batting title, then did it again & again! (347, .328, .365, the last 2 consecutive) Simmons & Parrish played in a different era, when BAs were lower; they were also great defensively, and, BTW, are not in.This time harness, I couldn't disagree with you more. -
Re: Is Victor Martinez a HOF'er?
posted at 7/7/2011 12:40 PM EDT
- harness
- Posts: 19880
- First: 10/16/2007
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In Response to Re: Is Victor Martinez a HOF'er?:In Response to Re: Is Victor Martinez a HOF'er? : Seriously? Mauer is an elite defensive catcher, and was the 1st catcher in 70 years to win a batting title, then did it again! Simmons & Parrish played in a different era, when BAs were lower; they were also great defensively, and, BTW, are not in. This time harness, I couldn't disagree with you more.
Posted by nhsteven
But who else is in Mauer's offensive class? Where does the offense end and the defense begin in the voter's minds? -
Re: Is Victor Martinez a HOF'er?
posted at 7/7/2011 12:40 PM EDT
- The---Babe---
- Posts: 82
- First: 7/6/2011
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In Response to Re: Is Victor Martinez a HOF'er?:In Response to Re: Is Victor Martinez a HOF'er? : Then let me ask you this: If a catcher has mediocre/decent numbers offensively, say like Tek, but is seen as a defensive stand-out with glaring credentials, would you think the voters would allow equal importance to them?Posted by harness
But tek isn't considered a defensive standout. Even if we go with your CERA voodoo, that's more game calling. Runners have always run on him with abandon. If he was so great defensively, how come the sawx had to have someone else catch wake's knuckler. If he was as "All World" as you claim him to be, surely he could have handled the knuckler.