It Is Mid-May - Time to Fire Our Manager

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Your-Echo. Show Your-Echo's posts

    Re: It Is Mid-May - Time to Fire Our Manager

    In Response to It Is Mid-May - Time to Fire Our Manager:
    Two months of slumbering, passionless, and idiotic baseball is enough for any team, let alone one with this payroll and expectations...fire him pronto or the season is lost
    Posted by georom4


    It's not an issue. It is only GEOROM4.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from pschuller. Show pschuller's posts

    Re: It Is Mid-May - Time to Fire Our Manager

    In Response to Re: It Is Mid-May - Time to Fire Our Manager:
    In Response to Re: It Is Mid-May - Time to Fire Our Manager : Well like I said, sometimes it doesn't work out.  But if you don't give your players a chance to succeed, they never will.  How do you expect Francona to get this guy back on track if every time he screws up he gets removed from the game?  I don't know how this is so hard to understand.    And you still haven't told me who will do a better job than Francona that is available.  That right there makes you lose in this argument. Like I said, if you can't come up with one guy that could manage better that is available so Francona can be fired, then your entire argument is moot.  
    Posted by rip8569


    Sorry, not buying that. If I were a shareholder who went to an IBM annual meeting and said I thought the CEO should be removed for x, y, z reasons, would I be expected to name his suitable replacement? Don't think so. I have a lot more important things to do than comb the rosters of every ex MLB or minor league manager looking for a better manager than Coma, but I have no doubt that he exists.  (And of course, this should be done during the off season, after considered and exhaustive search.)
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from rip8569. Show rip8569's posts

    Re: It Is Mid-May - Time to Fire Our Manager

    Let's pretend you are the GM of the Red Sox (thank GOD you aren't btw).  Would it make any sense to you to abandon a manager who has been at the very minimum fairly successful before you knew you had something that would improve the team?  No, you wouldn't.  If you did there would be a million threads just like this one calling for your head.  So yes, it does matter.  If you don't think it matters you should have your head examined.

    You aren't buying it because you CAN'T name ANYONE better.  If you have such a hard-on for Francona being replaced I would think you would at least try to throw a name down.  But I know you can't BECAUSE THERE ISN'T ANYONE ELSE WHO CAN MANAGE THIS TEAM BETTER THAN HE CAN WHO CAN BE HIRED RIGHT NOW.  

    It shouldn't matter if you are too busy, it's not like you would have to comb minor league teams to find someone.  That's a total cop out.  There are only a few names out there that could be possibilities.  How many guys got interviewed for the numerous skipper jobs that were available this off-season?  It was a small pool. You really don't need to go looking for names, you can start debating about the ones that didn't get hired over the winter.  And remember that of those candidates that GM's of other team's found suitable, most of the ones you would be considering would be cast offs who couldn't get hired.

    In the end it doesn't matter, because there is NO CHANCE Francona gets fired mid season.  I'm glad, partially because I think he does a pretty good job despite his shortcomings, and also because I know it ticks you off.  Enjoy!

    Seeing as how I am obviously more committed to arguing this point, until you have some names to start talking about it seems you are losing this argument.  Give me some names and then we can start talking about if they will be better.  Until then, enjoy being wrong.


     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimdavis. Show jimdavis's posts

    Re: It Is Mid-May - Time to Fire Our Manager

    In Response to Re: It Is Mid-May - Time to Fire Our Manager:
    Let's pretend you are the GM of the Red Sox (thank GOD you aren't btw).  Would it make any sense to you to abandon a manager who has been at the very minimum fairly successful before you knew you had something that would improve the team?  No, you wouldn't.  If you did there would be a million threads just like this one calling for your head.  So yes, it does matter.  If you don't think it matters you should have your head examined. You aren't buying it because you CAN'T name ANYONE better.  If you have such a hard-on for Francona being replaced I would think you would at least try to throw a name down.  But I know you can't BECAUSE THERE ISN'T ANYONE ELSE WHO CAN MANAGE THIS TEAM BETTER THAN HE CAN WHO CAN BE HIRED RIGHT NOW.   It shouldn't matter if you are too busy, it's not like you would have to comb minor league teams to find someone.  That's a total cop out.  There are only a few names out there that could be possibilities.  How many guys got interviewed for the numerous skipper jobs that were available this off-season?  It was a small pool. You really don't need to go looking for names, you can start debating about the ones that didn't get hired over the winter.  And remember that of those candidates that GM's of other team's found suitable, most of the ones you would be considering would be cast offs who couldn't get hired. In the end it doesn't matter, because there is NO CHANCE Francona gets fired mid season.  I'm glad, partially because I think he does a pretty good job despite his shortcomings, and also because I know it ticks you off.  Enjoy! Seeing as how I am obviously more committed to arguing this point, until you have some names to start talking about it seems you are losing this argument.  Give me some names and then we can start talking about if they will be better.  Until then, enjoy being wrong.
    Posted by rip8569


    Wow!  Nice post.   Could not have said it any better.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: It Is Mid-May - Time to Fire Our Manager

    But I know you can't BECAUSE THERE ISN'T ANYONE ELSE WHO CAN MANAGE THIS TEAM BETTER THAN HE CAN WHO CAN BE HIRED RIGHT NOW.  

    You are probably right, but could we trade Carl and Tito for Madden and Joyce?

    Tongue out
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from rip8569. Show rip8569's posts

    Re: It Is Mid-May - Time to Fire Our Manager

    In Response to Re: It Is Mid-May - Time to Fire Our Manager:
    But I know you can't BECAUSE THERE ISN'T ANYONE ELSE WHO CAN MANAGE THIS TEAM BETTER THAN HE CAN WHO CAN BE HIRED RIGHT NOW.   You are probably right, but could we trade Carl and Tito for Madden and Joyce?
    Posted by moonslav59


    I would rather have Maddon over Francona, but not Joyce over Crawford.  Too bad Maddon is under contract through next season.  They're both pretty good, but each in different areas.  Maddon seems to have more of a think outside the box mentality and that seems to work for him.  I would be curious to see how he would fare in a large market like Boston, probably pretty well.  Francona is good at dealing with the media and big market pressure, as well as dealing with superstar egos affectively, though his in game decisions leave something to be desired at times.  Each has a system that works for their respective teams.

    And remember, Maddon was actually one of the leading candidates to manage the Red Sox after 03, before Francona ended up snatching the job. 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimdavis. Show jimdavis's posts

    Re: It Is Mid-May - Time to Fire Our Manager

    In Response to Re: It Is Mid-May - Time to Fire Our Manager:
    pschuller, I see you watch the same games that I watch. I've been asking for him to be fired for 7 plus years now. He's kept this team from becoming a dynasty over the last 7 plus years. Fortunately they've been able to win, a fair number of games, in spite of his buffoonery. Welcome aboard.
    Posted by BOSOX1941


    So you have been asking for 7+ years? So, as soon as Tito was hired you were asking for him to be fired?  This makes no sense on a number of levels.   What would be the basis in the middle of year one?  And, who were you asking?  It seems they were not listening.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from pschuller. Show pschuller's posts

    Re: It Is Mid-May - Time to Fire Our Manager

    In Response to Re: It Is Mid-May - Time to Fire Our Manager:
    Let's pretend you are the GM of the Red Sox (thank GOD you aren't btw).  Would it make any sense to you to abandon a manager who has been at the very minimum fairly successful before you knew you had something that would improve the team?  No, you wouldn't.  If you did there would be a million threads just like this one calling for your head.  So yes, it does matter.  If you don't think it matters you should have your head examined. You aren't buying it because you CAN'T name ANYONE better.  If you have such a hard-on for Francona being replaced I would think you would at least try to throw a name down.  But I know you can't BECAUSE THERE ISN'T ANYONE ELSE WHO CAN MANAGE THIS TEAM BETTER THAN HE CAN WHO CAN BE HIRED RIGHT NOW.   It shouldn't matter if you are too busy, it's not like you would have to comb minor league teams to find someone.  That's a total cop out.  There are only a few names out there that could be possibilities.  How many guys got interviewed for the numerous skipper jobs that were available this off-season?  It was a small pool. You really don't need to go looking for names, you can start debating about the ones that didn't get hired over the winter.  And remember that of those candidates that GM's of other team's found suitable, most of the ones you would be considering would be cast offs who couldn't get hired. In the end it doesn't matter, because there is NO CHANCE Francona gets fired mid season.  I'm glad, partially because I think he does a pretty good job despite his shortcomings, and also because I know it ticks you off.  Enjoy! Seeing as how I am obviously more committed to arguing this point, until you have some names to start talking about it seems you are losing this argument.  Give me some names and then we can start talking about if they will be better.  Until then, enjoy being wrong.
    Posted by rip8569


    This does not deserve a direct response to your "demands" because 1) unlike you I am not trying to win an argument, so I choose not to join you in your little game of who is "wrong", and 2) I don't engage in dialogues (and if you are interested, that is what I am about, as opposed to argument) with people whose whole desire is to prove themselves right, especially those who say stuff like, "until then, enjoy being wrong." (But if I did chose to respond directly to your "argument", I would tell you that your first statement is really misguided, as there are absolutely times when organizations engage in "addition by subtraction" and fire a CEO/manager/whatever before they know who will be the replacement.)
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from ddimaria. Show ddimaria's posts

    Re: It Is Mid-May - Time to Fire Our Manager

    In Response to Re: It Is Mid-May - Time to Fire Our Manager:
    Btw, if making a post about aging Yankees is wrong, why is it ok if a Yankee (fan/troll your pick) has a pic of an aging Varitek in his post?  I don't get it.
    Posted by kimsaysthis


    I think the animation has Varitek aging into George Steinbrenner....
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from --The--Babe--1. Show --The--Babe--1's posts

    Re: It Is Mid-May - Time to Fire Our Manager

    In Response to Re: It Is Mid-May - Time to Fire Our Manager:
    In Response to Re: It Is Mid-May - Time to Fire Our Manager : I think the animation has Varitek aging into George Steinbrenner....

    Posted by ddimaria

    Ummm...no....he ages into Don Zimmer.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from kebbe. Show kebbe's posts

    Re: It Is Mid-May - Time to Fire Our Manager

                        Fire Francona now?you have got to kidding or just have a vendetta against the man for some reason.Is he the bes manager in the bigs?No,but he is in the top ten and his players,for the most part,play hard for him.Dice K should have been dealt and no one really knows what's wrong with Lackey(let us all hope his wife will be OK).Crawford will come around,he's been too good for too long and his swing is certainly better than it was.For those criticizing Adrian Gonzales,what are you watching?He has been outstanding one of the top 2-4 hitters in the game(and pretty darn good at first as well).It also boggles the rational mind that some are just irresponsably negative about Ellsbury and Lowrie,both of whom are playing very well and there is still room for both to grow as players to a significant degree.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from kinselja. Show kinselja's posts

    Re: It Is Mid-May - Time to Fire Our Manager

    This conversation is beyond ridiculous.

    Two world series title in the last 7 years and 5 playoff appearances and you want to fire the manager after going 21-20 to start the season?!

    The Red Sox are 2.5 games out of first place in the AL East and 1 game out of a playoff spot.

    Its a good thing none of you are general managers. Sheesh.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from tjwoods. Show tjwoods's posts

    Re: It Is Mid-May - Time to Fire Our Manager

    How many years do we have to endure a manager who runs a team that is a bad joke at holding baserunners . . . hires and sustains a 3rd base coach who sends lumbering David Ortiz home with Carl Crawford trying to leg out an infield dribbler . . . and so many other baseball fundamentals ignored to count.

    Alas . . . I know there's better thinking managers out there. Thanks Tito for the 2 Series but it's almost if we won in spite of him.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from kinselja. Show kinselja's posts

    Re: It Is Mid-May - Time to Fire Our Manager

    In Response to Re: It Is Mid-May - Time to Fire Our Manager:
    In Response to Re: It Is Mid-May - Time to Fire Our Manager : I would rather have Maddon over Francona, but not Joyce over Crawford.  Too bad Maddon is under contract through next season.  They're both pretty good, but each in different areas.  Maddon seems to have more of a think outside the box mentality and that seems to work for him.  I would be curious to see how he would fare in a large market like Boston, probably pretty well.  Francona is good at dealing with the media and big market pressure, as well as dealing with superstar egos affectively, though his in game decisions leave something to be desired at times.  Each has a system that works for their respective teams. And remember, Maddon was actually one of the leading candidates to manage the Red Sox after 03, before Francona ended up snatching the job. 
    Posted by rip8569


    Maddon has never won a world series.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: It Is Mid-May - Time to Fire Our Manager

    Francona got the job because Schilling wasn't coming here unless Francona was hired. Do you think anyone would have hired him based on his track record?? Ask the fans in Philly about his managerial abilities.
    Anyone that watches him manage for 30 days understands why I wanted him fired in 2004.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: It Is Mid-May - Time to Fire Our Manager

    In Response to Re: It Is Mid-May - Time to Fire Our Manager:
    Francona got the job because Schilling wasn't coming here unless Francona was hired. Do you think anyone would have hired him based on his track record?? Ask the fans in Philly about his managerial abilities. Anyone that watches him manage for 30 days understands why I wanted him fired in 2004.
    Posted by BOSOX1941


    I've taken your 30 day challenge about 60 times over and have actually never come to understand why you wanted him fired in 2004.  Of course, you will not offer me any real facts that have influenced your conclusion.  And you justify this by saying if I don't get it, i am hopeless.  But I don't feel so bad being hopeless in your eyes.  I am in good company with a great many Sox fans who actually think he is a fantastic manager by and large.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from LouV. Show LouV's posts

    Re: It Is Mid-May - Time to Fire Our Manager

      It's Hopeless!  Day in & day out, Francoma just goes with the flow! No
    aggressive management,just reacts after the fact. So they won 3 in a row vs
    the Yankees. So what. Nothing has changed. They NEVER should heve been in
    this situation.  Lot of talent, not motivated & playing dumb baseball-all a
    reflection of the manager. Francoma must make things happen.  But again, Epstein
    has to step up to the plate. You are not successful if you let management &
    players interwine & are all buddies. Your doomed for failure. Epstein make your
    move,or   you should be history, and then bring in someone who has b...s like
    B. Valintine!  LouV
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: It Is Mid-May - Time to Fire Our Manager

    In Response to Re: It Is Mid-May - Time to Fire Our Manager:
      It's Hopeless!  Day in & day out, Francoma just goes with the flow! No aggressive management,just reacts after the fact. So they won 3 in a row vs the Yankees. So what. Nothing has changed. They NEVER should heve been in this situation.  Lot of talent, not motivated & playing dumb baseball-all a reflection of the manager. Francoma must make things happen.  But again, Epstein has to step up to the plate. You are not successful if you let management & players interwine & are all buddies. Your doomed for failure. Epstein make your move,or   you should be history, and then bring in someone who has b...s like B. Valintine!  LouV
    Posted by LouV


    never shoulda been 2 1/2 games out of first place and a game out of playoffs?  Man, you are a tough customer.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from losmediasrojas. Show losmediasrojas's posts

    Re: It Is Mid-May - Time to Fire Our Manager

    Francona got the job because Schilling wasn't coming here unless Francona was hired. Do you think anyone would have hired him based on his track record?? Ask the fans in Philly about his managerial abilities.
    Anyone that watches him manage for 30 days understands why I wanted him fired in 2004.

    In Response to Re: It Is Mid-May - Time to Fire Our Manager:
    In Response to Re: It Is Mid-May - Time to Fire Our Manager : I've taken your 30 day challenge about 60 times over and have actually never come to understand why you wanted him fired in 2004.  Of course, you will not offer me any real facts that have influenced your conclusion.  And you justify this by saying if I don't get it, i am hopeless.  But I don't feel so bad being hopeless in your eyes.  I am in good company with a great many Sox fans who actually think he is a fantastic manager by and large.
    Posted by SpacemanEephus


    Space, the only logical conclusion I can draw from this is that you're just not "anyone".  Neither am I.  Makes me feel kind of special.  You should feel special too.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: It Is Mid-May - Time to Fire Our Manager

    Should we ask the fans in Cleveland about Bill Belichik's coaching abilities?

    Francona Vs. Grady Little, Joe Kerrigan, Jimy Williams, Kevin Kennedy, Butch Hobson, Joe Morgan, MacNamara

    Bring back the ghost of Eddie Popowski.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: It Is Mid-May - Time to Fire Our Manager

    We just swept the NYY at NY, and it's the RS manager that needs to be fired????
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: It Is Mid-May - Time to Fire Our Manager

    I like Youk's line:

    "Coma can only win world series games".
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: It Is Mid-May - Time to Fire Our Manager

    I never saw him win a game, never mind a World Series game by doing anything that any manager wouldn't do. If he has had a positive affect on any games, it would be very few. He has had a negative affect on countless games over the last 7 plus years. Some have been losses, some have been wins IN SPITE OF HIM. No manager has many opportunities to have a positive or negative affect on the outcome of games. The manager's job during a game is, hopefully, to have more times when he has a positive affect then the times when he has a negative affect. Those of us that believe he is not a good baseball manager have been asked many times to give examples of his poor managing abilities. I believe he is the only example needed.
    I ask this, give us examples of moves or decisions that have had a potential positive affect on the outcome of a game, moves that most other managers wouldn't make.
    We also hear how well he handles the clubhouse and the press. Dr. Phil can do that with absolutely no baseball knowledge.
     I want a manager that will step out of the scripted game plan, which was drawn up in March,  and make a move that could help the team win the current game, if the game is within reach.
     I don't want a manager that is planning his rotation for the 3rd week in September, when the game being played is happening in May.
    I'd also like a manager that doesn't look like one of Red Skelton's sea gulls, when he's arguing with an umpireCool.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: It Is Mid-May - Time to Fire Our Manager

    Bosox1941,

    Has it ever occurred to you that, while it is entirely appropriate to voice one's opinion on this forum, you lose credibility when you insist that Francona, the most successful Sox manager ever and the one who managed the Sox to two WS wins after an 86 year drought, has never done anything right? 

    That simply does not pass the straight face test.  You also don't seem to be aware that the Red Sox team is a very successful business, that that business will not thrive if the Sox lose lots of games and don't get to the playoffs very often, and that hardheaded businessmen have determined that Francona is the right guy to manage the team on the field.   This is Francona's 8th year under the Henry/Lucchino/Epstein regime, and it sure doesn't look like they are going to part company anytime soon.  


     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimdavis. Show jimdavis's posts

    Re: It Is Mid-May - Time to Fire Our Manager

    In Response to Re: It Is Mid-May - Time to Fire Our Manager:
    Bosox1941, Has it ever occurred to you that, while it is entirely appropriate to voice one's opinion on this forum, you lose credibility when you insist that Francona, the most successful Sox manager ever and the one who managed the Sox to two WS wins after an 86 year drought, has never done anything right?  That simply does not pass the straight face test.  You also don't seem to be aware that the Red Sox team is a very successful business, that that business will not thrive if the Sox lose lots of games and don't get to the playoffs very often, and that hardheaded businessmen have determined that Francona is the right guy to manage the team on the field.   This is Francona's 8th year under the Henry/Lucchino/Epstein regime, and it sure doesn't look like they are going to part company anytime soon.  
    Posted by maxbialystock


    Every Sox win kills 1941 a little bit more each day.  Moving this much closer to first place must really be messing with his head. 
     
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