It is quite obvious, JACOBY, SALTY,BARD, ACEVES ............

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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: It is quite obvious, JACOBY, SALTY,BARD, ACEVES ............

    Bill-806 spammer extraordinaire.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: It is quite obvious, JACOBY, SALTY,BARD, ACEVES ............

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

    Whining reminds me of marriage.



    That doesn't surprise me.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: It is quite obvious, JACOBY, SALTY,BARD, ACEVES ............

    If Notin had listed Ellsbury, Salty, Bard, and Aceves as being the most likely to be traded, would the forum vultures had swooped down on him?

     

    [/QUOTE]

    the difference is, Notin would say it once and likely give a realictic sense of what to expect from trading these guys. Bill is a broken record and has no idea what their value is except that they have "value". I don't have a problem with calling for a trade but at least give me some targets..

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: It is quite obvious, JACOBY, SALTY,BARD, ACEVES ............

    Bard i have a very bad feeling about - but the rest should go nowhere until the trading deadline where pitching is a premium and will get us maximum return...unless it's Magic Johnson - then trade at will! 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: It is quite obvious, JACOBY, SALTY,BARD, ACEVES ............

    I just have to chuckle at how many posters here say these guys have little or no trade value, but then think this team will make the playoffs by being led by the same very same players "with little value".

    Either these guys are not likely to have a good season, so the have little trade value, or they have a good chance of having a good season and should then have good trad value. You guys can't have it both ways.

    I get the "don't trade when the stock is low" argument, but there comes a time when you have to weigh what the value of keeping a stock is worth vs the value of trading it. The potential for a 2013 rise in value is keeping many here from wanting to sell low on Ellsbury, Bard and Aceves, but if their chances are really that good that they rebound for a good year, than some Gm somewhere should feel the same way and make a decent offer for them, right?

    Yes, Jacoby's value was highest after 2011, but that still does not mean that we should never think of trading him, because his value is no longer at its highest point or even near it.  Part of the equation is how much of a chance do we have to win it all this year. If you can bring yourself to just pretend we have no chance or a very long shot chance, then think about what baseball value Ellsbury brings to us in 2013. Forget about the money assoiciated with high viewership, and think just baseball. If jacoby bats .330 with 40 Hrs and 130 RBIs, but we finish 20 games out, what value did he bring to our club, and more importantly out outlook beyond 2013? His future value is found only in the likely comp draft choice when he bolts and refuses the qualifying offer. So his value is in doubt depending on how you view our chances this year, but the draft pick is a constant value although unknown as well (could be great/could be a bust).

    So, looking beyond 2013, the choice is: 

    A comp draft pick in 2014 of questionable value, but still highly sought after by many teams. (If we trade Ellsbury before the season, the team getting him gets the draft pick value and 1 year of Ellsbury, presummably with a better chance to win in 2013 than us.)

    vs.

    A prospect or two of perhaps better known future outlook(s) due to some exposure to professional baseball at the farm level. 

    One would have to think the prospect(s) received would likely turn out better than the draft choice. This makes our 2014 and beyond future brighter, in theory, but lessens our chances to win in 2013. Again, it comes back to what you think our chances are in 2013. If trading Ellsbury lessens our chances from 1% to 0.5%, is it worth it? How about from 8% to 5%? 6% to 3%? 9% to 3%? Is there any scenario where some of you guys see the value of trading him now?

    I know that if he is having an MVP type year, he may be worth more at the deadline, even without the attached draft pick, but that is a huge gamble to take. Personally, I think a GM would and should value 6 months of Ellsbury plus the draft a lot more than 2 months of Ellsbury with no draft choice... even a red hot Ellsbury.

    The market might be very limited at this point, but one key OF injury to a contender could change all that. We'll see. The market for that comp draft pick has a high value right now as well. It helps soften the blow of losing Jacoby after one year, and justify hurting your farm by adding to it in the 2014 draft.

     

     

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: It is quite obvious, JACOBY, SALTY,BARD, ACEVES ............

    I love how moonslav59 derails a thread by talking baseball. lol

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: It is quite obvious, JACOBY, SALTY,BARD, ACEVES ............

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:

    I love how moonslav59 derails a thread by talking baseball. lol



    Me too, so I'll repeat the crux...

    I just have to chuckle at how many posters here say these guys have little or no trade value, but then think this team will make the playoffs by being led by the same very same players "with little value".

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: It is quite obvious, JACOBY, SALTY,BARD, ACEVES ............

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:

     

    I love how moonslav59 derails a thread by talking baseball. lol

     



    Me too, so I'll repeat the crux...

     

    I just have to chuckle at how many posters here say these guys have little or no trade value, but then think this team will make the playoffs by being led by the same very same players "with little value".



    Trade value and baseball value can be very different though.  Trade value is so dependent on the player's contract. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: It is quite obvious, JACOBY, SALTY,BARD, ACEVES ............

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:

     

    I love how moonslav59 derails a thread by talking baseball. lol

     



    Me too, so I'll repeat the crux...

     

    I just have to chuckle at how many posters here say these guys have little or no trade value, but then think this team will make the playoffs by being led by the same very same players "with little value".




    Some fans think the Sox will make the playoffs, because so many talented players had a subpar season last year.

    And saying that we think they have "little value" is an oversimplification.

    They have limited value now. They could have more value later. It's a gamble, but one worth taking.

    Take Ellsbury for example;

    When will he have more value?

    Now, after a season of injury and underperformance, or at this year's trade deadline, when he could possibly perform better and be of help to a team fighting for a playoff spot, with an injured lead off hitter?


    I know you think the team is going nowhere this year, so you're not willing to take a chance that some of these players will rebound.

    Chuckle if it makes you feel better, I guess.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: It is quite obvious, JACOBY, SALTY,BARD, ACEVES ............

    In response to selenium-'s comment:

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars' comment:

     

    In response to selenium-'s comment:

     

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars' comment:

    In response to selenium-'s comment:

     Bill probably should have started a thread asking the forum the list the four who are most likely to be traded if a trade was imminent. In doing so everyone who responded would be a target for disagreement instead of just Bill. Instead poor Bill is like a rabbit running across the field at a rifle range.

     Then he shouldn't behave so anti-socially.  Nor should you.  Then neither of you would get all the vitriol spewed at you both.  

     

     



    I didn't see any thing within Bill's OP that was anti-social. If you look at the whole body of his posting history then you may have a case that he is most likely a concern troll as many others are also. However my above comment was in response to this specific thread and OP. Aren't we supposed to respond to the OP only and not color our responses on what Bill might be in a wider context on the forum?

     

     



    His nth thread on the same subject isn't anti-social?  His constant political references aren't anti-social?

     

    It's the same issue when you post like a normal person for 3-4 days, then get all bent out of shape because people still attack you.....as if your years of terrible behaviour can be washed away in less than a week.

     




     

    Once again, my point wasn't addressed by you. On this specific thread, there was no need to attack Bill. Bill in his OP listed four players who he considered to be most likely to be shopped or on the trading block and the forum buzzards swooped in to attack him based on his previous forum personna as a concern troll, chronic pessimist and whiner, and malcontent.

      I am not a fan of Bill, Softlaw, Georom, Babe, Zac, Pumpsie, JackBU, Seabeachfred, and others who have a chronic need to bash 24/7 everything Red Sox.  However on this specific thread it was disingenuous and mob behavior / peer group behavior to gang up on Bill for listing the most tradeable players which reflects media and forum collective opinion. Posters really should address what is in the OP or is the subject of the thread.

    If Notin had listed Ellsbury, Salty, Bard, and Aceves as being the most likely to be traded, would the forum vultures had swooped down on him?

     

      B I N G O !!!!!!!!!!!


     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: It is quite obvious, JACOBY, SALTY,BARD, ACEVES ............

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:

     

    I love how moonslav59 derails a thread by talking baseball. lol

     



    Me too, so I'll repeat the crux...

     

    I just have to chuckle at how many posters here say these guys have little or no trade value, but then think this team will make the playoffs by being led by the same very same players "with little value".

     



    Trade value and baseball value can be very different though.  Trade value is so dependent on the player's contract. 

     



    Yes, but we cana fford to pay part of Ellsbury's deal, if the right prospect(s) is offered.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: It is quite obvious, JACOBY, SALTY,BARD, ACEVES ............

    Some fans think the Sox will make the playoffs, because so many talented players had a subpar season last year.

     

    And saying that we think they have "little value" is an oversimplification.

    They have limited value now. They could have more value later. It's a gamble, but one worth taking.

    Take Ellsbury for example;

    When will he have more value?

    Now, after a season of injury and underperformance, or at this year's trade deadline, when he could possibly perform better and be of help to a team fighting for a playoff spot, with an injured lead off hitter?

    Now: GMs realize there is always a risk. Ellsbury could be really hot at the deadline, then get hurt or decline. 6 months plus a draft choice is worth more than 2 months and no pick. 


    I know you think the team is going nowhere this year, so you're not willing to take a chance that some of these players will rebound.

    We need many to rebound, not just a few. I am pretty certain some will rebound, but in my opinion, we need too many to reboud to have a realistic chance.

    Chuckle if it makes you feel better, I guess.

    The value, whether you call it "limited" or "little" is either big, small or inbetween. It makes no sense to me that you guys value Ellsbury so much, but think no GM does... at least enough to make a quality offer for him and a prized draft pick.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: It is quite obvious, JACOBY, SALTY,BARD, ACEVES ............

    I'm confused  ... so we don't want Ellsbury anymore?

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: It is quite obvious, JACOBY, SALTY,BARD, ACEVES ............

    In response to LloydDobler's comment:

    I'm confused  ... so we don't want Ellsbury anymore?




    I do.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: It is quite obvious, JACOBY, SALTY,BARD, ACEVES ............

    In response to LloydDobler's comment:

    I'm confused  ... so we don't want Ellsbury anymore?



    He's walking after this year. I put the odds at 98%.

    Why not help our longterm future instead of shooting for a 3rd or 4th place finish instead of 4th or 5th?

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: It is quite obvious, JACOBY, SALTY,BARD, ACEVES ............

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to LloydDobler's comment:

     

    I'm confused  ... so we don't want Ellsbury anymore?

     



    He's walking after this year. I put the odds at 98%.

     

    Why not help our longterm future instead of shooting for a 3rd or 4th place finish instead of 4th or 5th?



    No, I understand that. Was just making a dig that I guess was too subtle.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from tomnev. Show tomnev's posts

    Re: It is quite obvious, JACOBY, SALTY,BARD, ACEVES ............

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Some fans think the Sox will make the playoffs, because so many talented players had a subpar season last year.

     

    And saying that we think they have "little value" is an oversimplification.

    They have limited value now. They could have more value later. It's a gamble, but one worth taking.

    Take Ellsbury for example;

    When will he have more value?

    Now, after a season of injury and underperformance, or at this year's trade deadline, when he could possibly perform better and be of help to a team fighting for a playoff spot, with an injured lead off hitter?

    Now: GMs realize there is always a risk. Ellsbury could be really hot at the deadline, then get hurt or decline. 6 months plus a draft choice is worth more than 2 months and no pick. 


    I know you think the team is going nowhere this year, so you're not willing to take a chance that some of these players will rebound.

    We need many to rebound, not just a few. I am pretty certain some will rebound, but in my opinion, we need too many to reboud to have a realistic chance.

    Chuckle if it makes you feel better, I guess.

    The value, whether you call it "limited" or "little" is either big, small or inbetween. It makes no sense to me that you guys value Ellsbury so much, but think no GM does... at least enough to make a quality offer for him and a prized draft pick.



    Ellsbury has limited value now because it is ST and he is coming off an injured year, plus as you noted most GM's think that he has a high probabliltiy of walking after this year and as such lessens the Sox bargaining position. This means his value to the Red Sox right now is higher than it would be for another team. At the trading deadline however, assuming he has a healthy first half 2 things could be in play, a) The Sox are in the race and keeping him allows them to make a run for the Title or b) his value could soar due to competetion for his services from other teams making a run for it.....heck by July CC will probably be on the DL so maybe we can get the Dodgers to make another great move :)

     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: It is quite obvious, JACOBY, SALTY,BARD, ACEVES ............

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to LloydDobler's comment:

     

    I'm confused  ... so we don't want Ellsbury anymore?

     



    He's walking after this year. I put the odds at 98%.

     

    Why not help our longterm future instead of shooting for a 3rd or 4th place finish instead of 4th or 5th?

     



    Why is the AL East so unwinnable?

     

     

    Every team has weaknesses.Toronto won the offseason, but if not for the Sox white flag trade they were a last place team last year.  And they bolstered their team with a bunch of other guys who did come in last, and. suddenly they are a powerhouse...

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: It is quite obvious, JACOBY, SALTY,BARD, ACEVES ............

    In response to notin's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to LloydDobler's comment:

     

    I'm confused  ... so we don't want Ellsbury anymore?

     



    He's walking after this year. I put the odds at 98%.

     

    Why not help our longterm future instead of shooting for a 3rd or 4th place finish instead of 4th or 5th?

     



    Why is the AL East so unwinnable?

     

     

    Every team has weaknesses.Toronto won the offseason, but if not for the Sox white flag trade they were a last place team last year.  And they bolstered their team with a bunch of other guys who did come in last, and. suddenly they are a powerhouse...




    Winning the offseason is overrated. It's almost like no one around here remembers 2011 and the best team ever.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: It is quite obvious, JACOBY, SALTY,BARD, ACEVES ............

     

    The 2009 NY Yankees won the offseason and the World Series.

    Like the Red Sox, the Blue Jays dealt with a lot of injuries.  They lost three of their starters in a four-day span and lost Bautista to a season-ending wrist injury.  Before Bautista went down, the Blue Jays were second in runs scored behind the Yankees.  

    Reyes, Buehrle, Johnson, and Bonifacio were not the reasons why the Marlins finished in last place.  They are fine additions to the Blue Jays and Dickey is icing on the cake.  

    I believe Toronto is the favorite to win the AL East with the Red Sox earning a wild card berth.  

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from fl+adam,. Show fl+adam,'s posts

    Re: It is quite obvious, JACOBY, SALTY,BARD, ACEVES ............

    The only trade I make that would include 3 of these 4 would also include Lackey or Dubie for a SP upgrade.  That is really our primary weakness on this team for the next 2-3 years.  A Matt Cain type sure would solidify this team I think, even if it cost a Jake, Aceves, Dubie and Salty.  Would hope an OF would come back in that deal as well.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from fl+adam,. Show fl+adam,'s posts

    Re: It is quite obvious, JACOBY, SALTY,BARD, ACEVES ............

    Bradley is not ready this year, but he may very well be ready next year.

     
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