It's almost time for Theo to go shopping for 2012 free agents. Who do you want?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BeaconHill19. Show BeaconHill19's posts

    Re: It's almost time for Theo to go shopping for 2012 free agents. Who do you want?

    Is it November already?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from william93063. Show william93063's posts

    Re: It's almost time for Theo to go shopping for 2012 free agents. Who do you want?

    In Response to Re: It's almost time for Theo to go shopping for 2012 free agents. Who do you want?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: It's almost time for Theo to go shopping for 2012 free agents. Who do you want? : unfortunately, jd crawford's 20+million isn't coming off the books; that's what is called an albatross. why is everyone so excited about epstein shopping for FA'S; ARE YOU ALL MASOCHISTS?
    Posted by sadsax[/QUOTE]

    And yet even with this "albatross" they could still sign a front line starter.  JD Drew's 14 mill is coming off the books?  I guess you missed that part?
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from sadsax. Show sadsax's posts

    Re: It's almost time for Theo to go shopping for 2012 free agents. Who do you want?

    In Response to Re: It's almost time for Theo to go shopping for 2012 free agents. Who do you want?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: It's almost time for Theo to go shopping for 2012 free agents. Who do you want? : And yet even with this "albatross" they could still sign a front line starter.  JD Drew's 14 mill is coming off the books?  I guess you missed that part?
    Posted by william93063[/QUOTE]

    seriously, based on the inept one's FA track record, do you actually want him here next year "shopping?"
    when is john henry finally going to say "enough is enough."
    hopefully, after this season when the SOX don't make the playoffs.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: It's almost time for Theo to go shopping for 2012 free agents. Who do you want?

    Yu Darvish.  Seriously - other teams will not expect the Sox to be in the running after the Dice-K experience, but this kid is only 25 and like Dice-k, only half his total cost will factor into the luxury tax.  How can you not go all out for this kid?  Even if you don't find a place for him in the rotation, use him for trade - he is locked up at a salary any team can afford.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from jrod72. Show jrod72's posts

    Re: It's almost time for Theo to go shopping for 2012 free agents. Who do you want?

    lets get that Drew fellow
     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ABQDan. Show ABQDan's posts

    Re: It's almost time for Theo to go shopping for 2012 free agents. Who do you want?

    Unpopular as it must sound, we have to think that at least two of Lackey / Buch / Lester will be somewhere between their current poor performance and their career norm.  And Buch's hurt - doing OK up 'til then.

    Those who want to write off Clay Buccholz would be well advised to look at where Jacoby Ellsbury is right now, and last year.

    So - starting pitching is not a need, which means you try for CJ Wilson and back off when the Yankees offer way too much for him.  If you really wanted to add depth, you might look at a Ryan Dempster or similar 'dependable' starter who could probably be taught to fill the traditional Wakefield role.

    3rd base will see Youkilis again, and let's hope he discovers a diet - or that Middlebrooks develops quickly.

    Scutaro's a good fit at SS, and ought to be affordable.  Resiging him and Varitek should be semi-automatic; 'Tek at this point is more of a team administrator than player.  And I think that this year, he's a great b/u catcher.

    Right side of infield is set, as is CF and LF*; RF and DH are where we have serious need. (* - for those who REALLY think Carl Crawford isn't returning?  Oh ...hahhahhahhahah ... please tell me you'll wager on that).

    So: RF.  Just how much will Carlos Beltran command in a year where Albert Pujols and Prince Fielder look to score big?  Could he be comfortable in RF? 

    Ultimately, the Sox need him more than he needs them; and that might turn into a Teixeira-like situation where they're used to jack up the price for where he eventually lands.  My personal hope is that they will look at a contact / OBP guy like Fukudome or similar.  Kosuke is a gamer and puts the ball in play; I think he'd do well batting at the end of the order in the RS system.  What we don't need is a someone who is either fat, a free swinger, or showing age (no problem if old if in good shape).  The way the current lineup is constructed, contact is the biggest need.

    DH ... I will be shocked if we would opt for Prince Fielder over resigning Ortiz.  Ortiz is the premier DH in baseball; a deal could be struck and I don't mind seeing him here a few more years.  Hell, I'd rather pay him $14M to sit than Drew; he earned it.

    And that makes it all interesting, because the Fielder, Pujols, CJ Wilson and etc. availability will distract and likely deflate David's market.  If the Sox are smart, they'll wait for the first of those to sign and then give David an incentive-laden 3 year deal with a non-insulting base.  Not only are his stats impressive, but so is his weight loss coming into the season.  Let him finish as a Red Sox.

    ... because I can't imagine what one has to pay to get Prince Fielder.  Whatever it is, will be too much.  There will be other, better players available, and right now he's gonna cost a fortune and for what?  A fattie staring down his 30's.  No.

    Pujols: no.  Cards or Angels.  Dumb to try.

    *************

    All of which ignores the ENORMOUS matter of Jonathan Papelbon.  Daniel Bard has shown he's not the answer to anything except the question "who scares you most as a late-inning option in key games?"  Sorry, Bard: you screwed the pooch and you had the whole thing set up for you on a tee.

    Resigning Papelbon is the single most important thing to do this off season.  3 years, $going rate+. 

    The problem there is he's never been a FA, and I can understand how he'd want to feel his oats and explore it.  If Theo is smart, he'll find a way to let that happen and still retain him.

    What else to do with the bullpen?  IT's always a crapshoot - looking over that list, who intrigues you more than "the usual suspects?" (Many of whom we have under contract already).  Betancourt?  A Rodriguez or other?  Baez?  Arthur "Satchel" Rhodes?

    Hate to say it, but relief pitching is where I'd skimp and just throw stuff at the wall, including wishing Bobby Jenks the best of luck with his lung.

    So, in order, the key FA's to target are:
    Papelbon
    Ortiz (or Fielder, if unhappy Papi)
    Beltran
    Wilson
    Scutaro
    Fukudome
    Varitek

    That's manageable list that addresses our needs.  You expect to lose on Fielder (who has "Angel" written all over him) and Wilson; but try anyways.

    Tek and Scut should be easy; you might try hard to sign Beltran if Ortiz talks get difficult.

    And then you take Jon Papelbon out to dinner.  In Tahiti.  With the Kardashian sister of his choice (hell - all of them).  And show him video of 2004 and 2007 and ask him if he isn't curious about what it might be like to someday enjoy what Mo Rivera does now.

    Cuz there's gonna be a line around the block for him.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from I95S. Show I95S's posts

    Re: It's almost time for Theo to go shopping for 2012 free agents. Who do you want?

    To whom much is given much is expected.  Theo needs give up the credit card and find someone else to evaluate players.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from tbrod. Show tbrod's posts

    Re: It's almost time for Theo to go shopping for 2012 free agents. Who do you want?

    WOWIE WOW!!!!
    Somebody wants Fukadome or Beltran! Be still my heart.
    One flop, so overpaid and underperforming, that the Cubs tried to unload him after his first bust season. Plus he's another lefty slap hitter.
    Beltran? Yeah, he makes JD Drew seem like a Navy Seal.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from 86redsox. Show 86redsox's posts

    Re: It's almost time for Theo to go shopping for 2012 free agents. Who do you want?

    let theo shop for the cubs.

    beltran?
    lose the woody, he'll take drew's place on the DL.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: It's almost time for Theo to go shopping for 2012 free agents. Who do you want?

    Maybe we should make a list of who we don't want.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from teoc53. Show teoc53's posts

    Re: It's almost time for Theo to go shopping for 2012 free agents. Who do you want?



    I don't want Theo to pick anyone.

    I want someone other than Theo to pick.

    As there are no names of GMs listed as free agents that is the first pick that has to be made.

    Three words—Matsuzaka, Lackey, Smoltz



     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: It's almost time for Theo to go shopping for 2012 free agents. Who do you want?

    I'd say we if we keep Papi, Paps, VTek, Wake and Scutty and then the best we can do is maybe  get Buehrle, Willingham and a cheap pen arm or two. 

    Outfielders
     
    S-Coco Crisp OAK 
    R-Michael Cuddyer MIN  (Hits LHPs well)
    L-David DeJesus OAK 
    R-Josh Willingham OAK
     (Hits L-R both well, but LHPs better)

    Starting Pitchers 
    Mark Buehrle CWS 
    Ryan Dempster CHC * 
    Freddy Garcia NYY 
    Edwin Jackson CWS 
    Hiroki Kuroda LAD 
    Paul Maholm PIT 
    Roy Oswalt PHI * 
    CC Sabathia NYY (may opt out) 
    Adam Wainwright STL * 
    Tim Wakefield BOS 
    Brandon Webb ARI 
    C.J. Wilson TEX 

    That would make our 2013 team look like this:
    C: Salty VTek 
    DH: Papi Lavarnway
    1B: AGon 
    2B: Pedey Lowrie
    3B: Youk Middlebrooks
    SS: Scutaro Aviles
    LF: Crawford DMac
    CF: Ellsbury  Kalish
    RF: Willingham Reddick

    S1: Beckett
    S2: Lester
    S3: Buchholtz
    S4: Buehrle
    S5: Lackey
    S6: Dice-K (Aug>)
    S7: Wake
    S8: Doubront
    S9: Weiland

    R1: Paps
    R2: Bard
    R3: Aceves
    R4: FA 
    R5: FA
    R6: Jenks
    R7: Morales/(Doubront from starter)
    R8: Atchison/(Wake from starter) 

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from thefly8. Show thefly8's posts

    Re: It's almost time for Theo to go shopping for 2012 free agents. Who do you want?

    How about a new manager.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from boboinfla. Show boboinfla's posts

    Re: It's almost time for Theo to go shopping for 2012 free agents. Who do you want?

    In Response to Re: It's almost time for Theo to go shopping for 2012 free agents. Who do you want?:
    [QUOTE]Unpopular as it must sound, we have to think that at least two of Lackey / Buch / Lester will be somewhere between their current poor performance and their career norm.  And Buch's hurt - doing OK up 'til then. Those who want to write off Clay Buccholz would be well advised to look at where Jacoby Ellsbury is right now, and last year. So - starting pitching is not a need, which means you try for CJ Wilson and back off when the Yankees offer way too much for him.  If you really wanted to add depth, you might look at a Ryan Dempster or similar 'dependable' starter who could probably be taught to fill the traditional Wakefield role. 3rd base will see Youkilis again, and let's hope he discovers a diet - or that Middlebrooks develops quickly. Scutaro's a good fit at SS, and ought to be affordable.  Resiging him and Varitek should be semi-automatic; 'Tek at this point is more of a team administrator than player.  And I think that this year, he's a great b/u catcher. Right side of infield is set, as is CF and LF*; RF and DH are where we have serious need. (* - for those who REALLY think Carl Crawford isn't returning?  Oh ...hahhahhahhahah ... please tell me you'll wager on that). So: RF.  Just how much will Carlos Beltran command in a year where Albert Pujols and Prince Fielder look to score big?  Could he be comfortable in RF?  Ultimately, the Sox need him more than he needs them; and that might turn into a Teixeira-like situation where they're used to jack up the price for where he eventually lands.  My personal hope is that they will look at a contact / OBP guy like Fukudome or similar.  Kosuke is a gamer and puts the ball in play; I think he'd do well batting at the end of the order in the RS system.  What we don't need is a someone who is either fat, a free swinger, or showing age (no problem if old if in good shape).  The way the current lineup is constructed, contact is the biggest need. DH ... I will be shocked if we would opt for Prince Fielder over resigning Ortiz.  Ortiz is the premier DH in baseball; a deal could be struck and I don't mind seeing him here a few more years.  Hell, I'd rather pay him $14M to sit than Drew; he earned it. And that makes it all interesting, because the Fielder, Pujols, CJ Wilson and etc. availability will distract and likely deflate David's market.  If the Sox are smart, they'll wait for the first of those to sign and then give David an incentive-laden 3 year deal with a non-insulting base.  Not only are his stats impressive, but so is his weight loss coming into the season.  Let him finish as a Red Sox. ... because I can't imagine what one has to pay to get Prince Fielder.  Whatever it is, will be too much.  There will be other, better players available, and right now he's gonna cost a fortune and for what?  A fattie staring down his 30's.  No. Pujols: no.  Cards or Angels.  Dumb to try. ************* All of which ignores the ENORMOUS matter of Jonathan Papelbon.  Daniel Bard has shown he's not the answer to anything except the question "who scares you most as a late-inning option in key games?"  Sorry, Bard: you screwed the pooch and you had the whole thing set up for you on a tee. Resigning Papelbon is the single most important thing to do this off season.  3 years, $going rate+.  The problem there is he's never been a FA, and I can understand how he'd want to feel his oats and explore it.  If Theo is smart, he'll find a way to let that happen and still retain him. What else to do with the bullpen?  IT's always a crapshoot - looking over that list, who intrigues you more than "the usual suspects?" (Many of whom we have under contract already).  Betancourt?  A Rodriguez or other?  Baez?  Arthur "Satchel" Rhodes? Hate to say it, but relief pitching is where I'd skimp and just throw stuff at the wall, including wishing Bobby Jenks the best of luck with his lung. So, in order, the key FA's to target are: Papelbon Ortiz (or Fielder, if unhappy Papi) Beltran Wilson Scutaro Fukudome Varitek That's manageable list that addresses our needs.  You expect to lose on Fielder (who has "Angel" written all over him) and Wilson; but try anyways. Tek and Scut should be easy; you might try hard to sign Beltran if Ortiz talks get difficult. And then you take Jon Papelbon out to dinner.  In Tahiti.  With the Kardashian sister of his choice (hell - all of them).  And show him video of 2004 and 2007 and ask him if he isn't curious about what it might be like to someday enjoy what Mo Rivera does now. Cuz there's gonna be a line around the block for him.
    Posted by ABQDan[/QUOTE]
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from boboinfla. Show boboinfla's posts

    Re: It's almost time for Theo to go shopping for 2012 free agents. Who do you want?

    Good list , but sign 'Tek as a coach. I never thought I would say this, but Schil is correct on the downhill ride of this team.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from tbrod. Show tbrod's posts

    Re: It's almost time for Theo to go shopping for 2012 free agents. Who do you want?

    Moon, didn't you have that list in ten other threads?
    Seriously, Willingham can't play RF. He's a LF-DH. We have our LF for life, and a million DH possibilities in house. You just have myopia when it comes to getting right handed power on a everyday basis.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ABQDan. Show ABQDan's posts

    Re: It's almost time for Theo to go shopping for 2012 free agents. Who do you want?

    The sad reality is that a semi-useful Beltran is a vast improvement over the alternatives.

    You really want Josh Willingham instead?  It's not as if you're going to save a pile of cash and pour it into CJ Wilson just because that's your fantasy.  Wilson will go elsewhere, unless radically overpaid by the RS - who have far greater concerns with the closer role.

    You need to match overall output to salary slot.  Beltran is the one larger-ticket FA that fits both.
    I'm not a huge fan, either, but what are the options?  Josh Reddick?
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from traven. Show traven's posts

    Re: It's almost time for Theo to go shopping for 2012 free agents. Who do you want?

    Sox need to take a page out of the Yankee book and look for cheap but proven hitters for their bench...i.e. Andruw Jones = good field/ good bat w/power, Eric Chavez = ex-gold glove, good bat w/some power.  Those two played major roles but cost almost nothing to sign.  The Sox bench is woefully pathetic and the farm has nothing to offer currently.

    They do need a RF but he doesn't have to be a super star with a long contract...I would love to Abreu out there even if he has a fear of walls.  You get a great bat and dependable stats.  Can also be a great DH if Ortiz walks. 

    STARTING PITCHING, PITCHING, PITCHING, PITCHING, PITCHING...get the picture?
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxFan2OO4. Show RedSoxFan2OO4's posts

    Re: It's almost time for Theo to go shopping for 2012 free agents. Who do you want?

    Josh Willingham, Scutaro, Beuhrle maybe? Yadier if we can..doubt it
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: It's almost time for Theo to go shopping for 2012 free agents. Who do you want?

    In Response to Re: It's almost time for Theo to go shopping for 2012 free agents. Who do you want?:
    [QUOTE]The sad reality is that a semi-useful Beltran is a vast improvement over the alternatives. You really want Josh Willingham instead?  It's not as if you're going to save a pile of cash and pour it into CJ Wilson just because that's your fantasy.  Wilson will go elsewhere, unless radically overpaid by the RS - who have far greater concerns with the closer role. You need to match overall output to salary slot.  Beltran is the one larger-ticket FA that fits both. I'm not a huge fan, either, but what are the options?  Josh Reddick?
    Posted by ABQDan[/QUOTE]

    Just a quick check on your list. 
    Scutaro has club/player options does he not.  He is an easy solution.  6 million team option. 
    I really hope Kalish bounces back quickly.  I know its a lot of lefties but I think he would have made a huge difference for us this year.  I dont see him with all the bad news bears errors in the OF. 
    As for starting pitching. I think you will see
    Beckett/Lester/Lackey/Clay/Miller and probably something in house.  The f/a market offers nothing.  Harden is there.  Might try him on a one year deal. 
    Kubel/Kalish as the starters in RF.
    Papi- agree
    Papelbon- agree/I see him in LA though.  Possibly the Cards. Heck I will pick Philly.
    Tek- Wanna say yes. But if this means Salty as a starter again I am not sure. 
    BP- agree.  I think its a crap shoot.

    I would love David Wright.  I know we don't have much in terms of dealing power.  Hotstove is how far away?
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from bhonest. Show bhonest's posts

    Re: It's almost time for Theo to go shopping for 2012 free agents. Who do you want?

    think catcher
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from ABQDan. Show ABQDan's posts

    Re: It's almost time for Theo to go shopping for 2012 free agents. Who do you want?

    As a frequent visitor to LA, I can't picture Papelbon there.  He feeds off of drama, and he's not going to find it out there.  That's a Laker town, then USC football, then the Raiders, then maybe the Dodgers - who, if you noticed, can't pay anyone at the moment.  He'll be lost in a town with a lot of non-sport celebs, and he wont' dig that.

    The Angels are the definition of criminally ignored.  I feel badly for them, really; absolutely no one cares. 

    No, no LA for Paps.  Now, the Phillies ...

    Starting pitching? (Jim Mora voice)  You want to talk about STARTING PITCHING!?!?  Buchholz, Lackey, Lester and Beckett.  Where are any of them going?  And when you have true holes at RF and DH, that is NOT where $$ will be tossed.  Further, at some point the team is going to ask that one of these hangers-on have a Bartolo Colon / Freddy Garcia year and just do it.

    To sign a front line starter at this point - in a year where there are very, very few true ones available - is to say that we expect this level of injury attrition to continue indefinitely.  That cannot - cannot - happen. 

    You want Ryan Dempster?  Maybe, if we can't get a decent RFer.

    Don't think that the RS are willing to simply increase payroll for more and more; they are not the Yankees, although they're huge spenders, they are not limitless spenders.

    No, the money's got to go to closer, DH and RF.  About $30M/year (that includes the Drew 14M), and when you look at Pap and Papi, that doesn't leave a lot for RF.  The only way you replace David's #'s is to get either Beltran or Fielder - or is someone going to suggest we just ask Albert Pujols to sign on?

    Cuz if we had Bard and Reddick as closer and RF, but a lineup of ...

    Ellsbury
    Pedroia
    AGonz
    Pujols
    Youkilis
    Crawford

    ... I bet we'd get some people's attention.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from tbrod. Show tbrod's posts

    Re: It's almost time for Theo to go shopping for 2012 free agents. Who do you want?

    Abreu doesn't even play the field in LA!
    He's a DH. Sure, let's let him roam the RF at Fenway and he can be the third starting left handed hitting OF. Jason Kubel, ANOTHER left handed hitting OF, who doesn't even play RF!
    Let's start looking for a left handed hitting 3rd baseman to replace Youk, while we're at it, and a left handed hitting 2nd baseman to replace Pedroia, too.
    God, does anyone get it?
     
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