It's everyone's fault now, but ownership brought it on.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from freediro. Show freediro's posts

    It's everyone's fault now, but ownership brought it on.

    SO, first off, if it's not BV's fault the Sox still stink then why was Tito fired? Clearly changing you manager to a clown isn't helping. Why didn't ownership blow up the trouble players in the clubhouse, seems like that is the problem now according to ownership, so why didnt they fix the "true" problem in the first place?

    So, if the players are the problem, then why didn't ownership make some trades during the deadline?

    If Cherington doesn't have power, which he doesn't because his pick for manager was never BV, why even put the puppet out there except to deflect fire from the owners?

    If BV cared about this team, why does he throw people under the bus left and right? Releasing info that players wanted more playing time, duh! Every back up wants more playing time, why through alcohol into the media fire? A player asks to keep things in house and he goes out and talks to the media about it! Dude your not commenting for ESPN anymore! Why, for the love of god WHY would you do that BV!? Imagine if your boss did that to you! Even from the get go BV was in trouble from the way he covered the collapse at ESPN and then he immediately begins to dismantle the team with incendiary talk about players lack of interest/declining skills knowing full well it would rile up guys like Pedey. Of course Pedey would back his teammates and of course Pedey wouldn't support a manager like this. At the same time, Gonzo was brought in by Theo and he is a Theo type guy from his years in SD, he is quite but gets the job done on the field and leaves his talk in the clubhouse were it belongs, not to the media. Sure this was his "first" leaership role, but it's his "first" you heard because the media leaked it!! Obviously he was a leader in some form or fashion before this, you don't just jump off the wall and become a leader for your teammates out of nowhere.

    Also, for the last few years many people called for Tito to be gone, I myself was one of them mainly because he couldn't manage a pitcher worth crap. But now it's our pitching that's the problem, so was it 100% Tito's fault? However, it has become clear that owners are looking for scapegoats left and right. Boston has always had malcontent players, but you know what? We still loved the players and could deal with some of the issues. We still supported the players, we watched the game for the players and not for the manager, GM or the owners, who fly aroudn the world destroying other countries sport franchises.

    SO, why is it now everyone dumps on the players when they care about the team and their teammates? They were happy with their manager and played for him, despited the collapse! Now you bring in a wrecking ball and expect the players will just go with it!? There was zero respect to begin with, its' fine if you don't like your boss, but as long as you can respect him everything should be fine. But, that respect was never there to begin with! When hasn't BV ran himself out of town while taking others down with him. How could ownserhip be so freaking blind to this obvious and inevitable situation. Just like how they couldn't have predicted Tito would then be hired by ESPN a complete role reversal with BV, who was later allowed in the clubhouse. W-T-F!? How do you allow that!? How dumb can you be to let that guy in the clubhouse at this point, seriously! 

    SO, what's really going on? Ownership is trying to save face instead of doing their job, admitting mistakes and make the proper changes. It's way too late now, they HAVE to sit back and watch this disaster till season end. What's going on is that the Sox owners have lost interest in building a winning team and more interested in money, sellouts and their image, ownserhip has brought all of this onto the Sox and themselves. Now, everyone looks bad and everyone needs to apologize for this overall cluster f***.

    At this point I am disgusted with everyone involved with the Sox. However, I am and always will be a fan, those who can't actually watch and enjoy the sport for itself, for the love of the game, then just stop complaining and come back next year, maybe they'll fix everything exactly for then. Just my 2 cents, take it for what it is.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: It's everyone's fault now, but ownership brought it on.

    good post...I think ultimately the owners and upper management are responsible for creating this mess, but the players, whether they like their manager or not, need to perform better...
    JH and Co. have shown their true colors this year and I have no respect for any of them...My hope is that they are setting things up to sell the team...Hopefully to another owner that cares more about the actual team than fake sellous or selling bricks and being two-faced...
    I hear Mark Cuban was looking to buy an MLB team...Im sure he would care a lot more about winning than this current ownership does and wouldnt treat and talk to the fans like we were stupid...
     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Re: It's everyone's fault now, but ownership brought it on.

    Bumping thread to rid the front page of 2004 idiots redundancy.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from freediro. Show freediro's posts

    Re: It's everyone's fault now, but ownership brought it on.

    Southpaw I completely agree! Yes we need less idiotic posts from 2004. I am just glad I have enough overall posts that I wasn't ignored..../sarcasm Seriously though this team has had way way way too many injuries to perform at a high level all together. As much as I do believe the manager, true leader of the team, brings out the best and even worst in a player. This team just isn't playing well, it's time for a huge change! Only guys I'd keep are Gonzo, Pedey, Buch, Middlebrooks, Lavarnway, Ells( still under good contract unless some other idiot GM wants to trade us huge talent for him) Lester(I know he can figure his problems out) Ross, Doubrant and bring up the kids from the farm!
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from 6k42lt913c. Show 6k42lt913c's posts

    Re: It's everyone's fault now, but ownership brought it on.

    No media blame here? See Cafardo having a cow over BV telling the media the reason why CC was taken out of a game early. According to Cafardo that is a no-no, give me a break.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from antibody. Show antibody's posts

    Re: It's everyone's fault now, but ownership brought it on.


    Excellent post, freediro.

    I have been posting along these lines for about a week now but have been largely ignored. Most fans want to blame some of the players, all of the players, the manager or the GM. The fact is that the problems begin at the top. In typical corporate fashion the owners do not accept, in fact are very likely intellectually incapable of accepting the fact that they could in any way be at fault for what they have created. In their hearts and minds they believe it is impossible for them to bear any responsibility. It can't be anything that they have done or failed to do. It absolutely must be due to breakdowns caused by the underlings they have hired. How could it be any other way?

    Unfortunately this is not unique to the Red Sox organization. It is by and large the world wide corporate model. It's a sad fact but true. This is the brave new world in which we live.

    Until the owners accept that they are culpable and need to change the way they operate, dysfunction will be the norm.

    I'm not trying to turn this thread into an ideological or political discussion, but...That's my rant and I'm sticking to it.


     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from 6k42lt913c. Show 6k42lt913c's posts

    Re: It's everyone's fault now, but ownership brought it on.

    The buck stops here? How does that prevent 26 players on the DL this season. How does that guarantee that Beckett and Lester have good seasons instead of unexpected subpar seasons? Did John Henry jam Bailey's thumb? Is John the reason why Crawford needs TJ surgery? Padilla and Atchison were not overworked and came up injured, was that John's fault also. The offense is inconsistent / sporadic, is that foreseeable and the fault of John Henry. The buck stops here doesn't apply here.

    A few years back a Division 1 basketball team came down with the measles at tournament time and couldn't perform up to their potential / abilities.. Do you blame that on the Athletic Director under your " The Buck Stops Here" mantra? Ridiculous. Go ahead and scapegoat if it is catharctic, take some prune juice and get it all out of your system.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from rightymclefty. Show rightymclefty's posts

    Re: It's everyone's fault now, but ownership brought it on.

    Look, ownership stuck with the same players who choked in September of last year.
    They hired a manager, and defanged him, not even letting him hire his own coaches!
    The same culprits of the collapse remained. The culture of the team was not changed. It looks like they made the new manager, thier target of discontent.
    Where is the PRIDE in the players?
    They make untold millions, and can't get into shape and can't conduct themselves as profressionals.
    Now, Valentine will be fired at the end of the season.
    Maybe they should hire Steven Segal or Chuck Norris, to beat slakers into playing or pay the consequences?
    It's a joke, what this franchise has become.
    Lackey, Beckett, Papi, Pedroia and Gonzalez all need to go.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: It's everyone's fault now, but ownership brought it on.

    This ownership group is awful. It saddens me to say:

    I'm glad more people are realizing it. It's the only way things will change.

    Ownership talks to the fans as if we are all idiots who will simply believe whatever they say. I guess coming from SD and FL they had no idea that people in the northeast aren't stupid, all the accredited schools in a small area breed a culture of, mostly, intelligent people who quesiton everything. Still, many are sheeping along, happy to just have their Hat and shirt, never daring to critisize anything about this team...but they are no longer the majority. The sellout streak should end soon, NESN's rating have eben steadily going down, and the stories coming out are getting mroe numerous, and harder to explain away.

    They brought this on themselves, and deserve every bit of criticism they are enduring. Probably, they deserve even more, but too many of the local reporters are spineless.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: It's everyone's fault now, but ownership brought it on.

    In Response to Re: It's everyone's fault now, but ownership brought it on.:
    [QUOTE]The problem is the players, it's leadership players, and the GMs who contracted them and went status quo. Ownership simply pays these guys a fortune, and will need to fire Cherry.
    Posted by TrotterNixon[/QUOTE]

    Except the front office chose the players. The FO has known about the pitching problems for nearly five years and they have not fixed the problem: the starting pitching continues to stink and its stinking more and more every year. Lackey is being Lackey; DiceK is being DiceK; Beckett is being Beckett; and Lester is being Lester. Yeah, they are all bums, but thats what they are. Hard to blame a pig for being a pig, isn't it?. I think most of the blame goes on the owners and FO for not addressing known problems. The players are at fault for whining and for their continued insubordination despite what happened last year, especially Pedroia, for whom I now have no respect at all. The team is just not very talented AND they have given up and extended a one finger salute to the fans. There are lots of reasons to hate this version of the Red Sox.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: It's everyone's fault now, but ownership brought it on.

    Good post freediro.  I agree with blowing the team up.  In fact I caught s*** for saying it in my "this team sucks" thread back in June.  I was at the game last night (first time I seen the Sox live since 1978) other then the Pedey triple and the CC hit there wasn't much to cheer for. 

    I won't pretend to think I know more about baseball then the people currently being employed by the Red Sox.  But I do know Human nature and I'll say as loudly and often as I can that there is absolutely no reason why Beckett should still be on this team.  He should of been ejected in the off season.  BB never would of kept him on his team.  He exemplifies everything that is wrong with modern day sports.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: It's everyone's fault now, but ownership brought it on.

    " No media blame here?"

    Nope. Believe it or not media members have never won a world series. Remember Spygate, and John Tomase's horrible reporting at the Herald? The Pats made it to the Super Bowl that year and were a freak play away from an undefeated season. 

    One thing I really can't stand is a patronizing view of professional athletes as being vulnerable to questionable reporting. C'mon now these guys are men. 

    Ownership and mangement however, unlike media, do share blame as they helped to compile this crummy overpaid roster. 

    nice job playing the injury card, you have plenty of excuses ready as opposed to holding anyone accountable.

    You're really surprised Beckett is having a poor season? You don't know much about baseball if you think he hasn't lost his stuff. 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: It's everyone's fault now, but ownership brought it on.

    Look, it's great in theory, to try to "blow up the team." But it's almost impossible because of MLB contracts. Read moon's posts, they really show you how crippled the Sox are in terms of eliminating players. No one is going take CC's contract, no one is going to take Beckett, no is going to take Lackey. If you want to really get rid of the "cancerous" players be prepared for years and years of mediocrity. This is very close to what happened to the 1972-74 Oakland A's. They were a monster, it was free agency that forced the hand of Finley, and basically it took until the 1988 to be competitive again (1981 was a fluke, short year). They blew up the roster or it gone blown up with trades, free agency and every star left and they thought let's go with the kids. And they did.---and this is what happened---read it and use it as a cautionary tale. 

    1975--A's 98-64
    1976--A's 87-74, team had lost Jackson
    1977--A's 63-98
    1978--A's 69-93
    1979--A's 54-108
    1980--A's 83-79 
    1981--not a 162-game sked
    1982--68-94
    1983--74-88
    1984--77-85
    1985--77-85
    1986--76-86
    1987--81-81
    ....

    You want that? It can and will happen with the contracts on the books the Sox have and the sudden need to dump Pedroia, Ellsbury, Beckett, Lester, CC, Lackey, AGON, and anyone else you feel is killing the team since 2011 Collapse.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: It's everyone's fault now, but ownership brought it on.

    Here's the lineup you all envision tomorrow:
    C-Lavarnway
    1b-whoever takes AGON
    2b-Ciriaco
    SS-Iglesias/Bogerts
    3B-Middlebrooks
    LF-Kalish
    CF-Ellsbury's replacement
    RF-Nava
    DH-Gomez
    SP--Morales, Doubront, and bring in the Pawtucket Clown Car

    ....Nice and cheap and an under .500 team like the one we are watching now.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from freediro. Show freediro's posts

    Re: It's everyone's fault now, but ownership brought it on.

    First off to that guy with the random username, did you miss the post when I talked about injuries!? Second I honestly can't in my wildest dreams understand why people want Gonzalez gone, I am not going to out what ifs out there like"what would you all say if Teixeura was our 1B" but honestly what has that guy done to deserve the off base criticism he receives from some of these "fans." Third these "fans" on the board seem more interested in dragging the Sox through the mud along with the media than actually having a intellectual debate about the team and where it's heading. Some drivel say and day out by the same people, it's like listening to a bunch of trust fund babies crying their daddy hasn't upgraded their BMW to the Ferrari they want. At my work when I have a project assigned and delegate that to my employees and it fails, it's my fault regardless if someone got sick ir messed up, etc. why can't anyone take some blame in the Sox brass? You'd think a bunch of panzies were running this team like it was a softball beer league.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from freediro. Show freediro's posts

    Re: It's everyone's fault now, but ownership brought it on.

    You all!? Stop failing at life and read what people post, if you want to call out and individual go for it. But I have named plenty of veterans I want to keep on this team. Jeez Also on media issues, sometimes certain things should be kept in house( ala Belichick and the Pats) the media can say this guy sucks and this and that, but the moment they start helping the manager through guys under the bus and write yellow journalism lies its no longer necessary and acceptable regardless if grown men are playing the sport.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: It's everyone's fault now, but ownership brought it on.

    freediro, in my case, I'm trying to be realistic and the only realistic thing to change the dynamic and even have any shot left in 2012--fire the manager. What else is supposed to be done when none of the players have responded with good baseball? There's nothing else that can take place that already has--Lavarnway now the righty catcher, Bailey is back. Not much else going on. Team still terrible, team still not winning games in a row, team still under .500 and BV still saying stupid things to the press on a near daily basis..
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from freediro. Show freediro's posts

    Re: It's everyone's fault now, but ownership brought it on.

    Ok, I agree with that DC! Here is my line up 1B-Gonzo 2B-Pedey 3B-Middlebrooks(damn shame he had a freak injury) SS-Iglesias or someone else from the farm OF-Ells(grey value under current contract) OF-Ross OF-Kalish or unless Farm kids beat him out next spring C-I'll let Salty and Lavarnway battle that out and we need 2 anyways. Bench-some kids off the farm and no more Punto type guys! P-Lester P-Buch P-Doubrant P-farm kid P-make some good FA pick ups or from trades we make RP-I can only hope Bard gets his head on straight and I am sure Bailey will stay I don't think that's so bad, but still a lot of guys to blow up from this team.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: It's everyone's fault now, but ownership brought it on.

    In Response to Re: It's everyone's fault now, but ownership brought it on.:
    [QUOTE]Look, it's great in theory, to try to "blow up the team." But it's almost impossible because of MLB contracts. Read moon's posts, they really show you how crippled the Sox are in terms of eliminating players. No one is going take CC's contract, no one is going to take Beckett, no is going to take Lackey. If you want to really get rid of the "cancerous" players be prepared for years and years of mediocrity. This is very close to what happened to the 1972-74 Oakland A's. They were a monster, it was free agency that forced the hand of Finley, and basically it took until the 1988 to be competitive again (1981 was a fluke, short year). They blew up the roster or it gone blown up with trades, free agency and every star left and they thought let's go with the kids. And they did.---and this is what happened---read it and use it as a cautionary tale.  1975--A's 98-64 1976--A's 87-74, team had lost Jackson 1977--A's 63-98 1978--A's 69-93 1979--A's 54-108 1980--A's 83-79  1981--not a 162-game sked 1982--68-94 1983--74-88 1984--77-85 1985--77-85 1986--76-86 1987--81-81 .... You want that? It can and will happen with the contracts on the books the Sox have and the sudden need to dump Pedroia, Ellsbury, Beckett, Lester, CC, Lackey, AGON, and anyone else you feel is killing the team since 2011 Collapse.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    The way I'm looking at it danny and I feel I'm being optimistic when I say it, is this team isn't going to be very good for years to come.  Weather we keep or eat the contracts of the players mentioned.  We are in year 1 of the 5 year stink, as I coined. 
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: It's everyone's fault now, but ownership brought it on.

    tcal, it's not looking good, and it could be a 5-year case of .500 teams.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: It's everyone's fault now, but ownership brought it on.

    In Response to Re: It's everyone's fault now, but ownership brought it on.:
    [QUOTE] Maybe they should hire Steven Segal
    Posted by rightymclefty[/QUOTE]

    That........ might actually be a brilliant idea. 
     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: It's everyone's fault now, but ownership brought it on.

    Tcal - this is already Year 3. I don't see the light at the end of the tunnel yet, either.
     
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