It's official: Francona leaves Red Sox

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: It's official: Francona leaves Red Sox

    Wow!
     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: It's official: Francona leaves Red Sox

    This was the easy part.  The hard part is finding a new Manager.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from traven. Show traven's posts

    Re: It's official: Francona leaves Red Sox

    I agree with the move...the Sox need a bit more of leader and less of a clubhouse pacifist managing them.  I don't think there will be wholesale player moves made by the Sox but do expect to see a lot of coaching changes come. 
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from william93063. Show william93063's posts

    Re: It's official: Francona leaves Red Sox

    In Response to Re: It's official: Francona leaves Red Sox:
    [QUOTE]This was the easy part.  The hard part is finding a new Manager.
    Posted by DirtyWaterLover[/QUOTE]

    This is the perfect reason that the Francoma haters are so short sighted.  Yes you hate him and want him gone , now what?
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from bald-predictions. Show bald-predictions's posts

    Re: It's official: Francona leaves Red Sox

    I'll miss him.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from OnDeckCircle. Show OnDeckCircle's posts

    Re: It's official: Francona leaves Red Sox

    All interested candidates as manager should be prepared to visit John Henry's office and smooch his rump to lift his spirits.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re: It's official: Francona leaves Red Sox

    I like Theo, but he's as much as or more to blame for this season than Francona.

    He either wildly overpaid for good but not superstar talent or he took orders from ownership to bring some star power to this team no matter what.  Which is it?  In either instance, you'd have to think he deserves the blame for the failings of the guys he brought in. He should be fired for his part in the collapse or he should resign if he was forced to overpay guys like Crawford, Jenks and Lackey.  He built the team, the bullpen, and the players didn't perform.   If he stays, his reputation is tainted either way.  

    If Francona was fingered behind the scenes as the problem and was the fall guy, he definitely didn't deserve it.  I really hope he left on his own terms. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: It's official: Francona leaves Red Sox

    If the statements coming out of Fenway mean anything, it sounds like Francona was more than ready to move on.

    FROM JOHN HENRY, TOM WERNER AND LARRY LUCCHINO ON BEHALF OF THE BOSTON RED SOX:

    “We met with Terry Francona, Theo Epstein and Ben Cherington Friday morning to discuss the 2011 season, ways to improve the club in the future, and Tito’s status. During the meeting, Tito, Theo and Ben agreed that the Red Sox would benefit from an improved clubhouse culture and higher standards in several areas. Tito said that after eight years here he was frustrated by his difficulty making an impact with the players, that a different voice was needed, and that it was time for him to move on. After taking time to reflect on Tito’s sentiments, we agreed that it was best for the Red Sox not to exercise the option years on his contract.

    We have enormous respect, admiration and appreciation for Tito and the job that he did for eight years, including two World Series Championship seasons and five playoff appearances. His poise during the 2004 post-season was a key factor in the greatest comeback in baseball history, and his place in Red Sox history will never be forgotten. We wish him only the best going forward.”

    STATEMENT FROM TERRY FRANONA: “We met this morning to look back on the 2011 season and to consider the future of the Boston Red Sox, including my involvement with the club. I passed along my frustrations at my inability to effectively reach the players. After many conversations and much consideration, I ultimately felt that, out of respect to this team, it was time for me to move on. I’ve always maintained that it is not only the right, but the obligation, of ownership to have the right person doing this job. I told them that out of my enormous respect for this organization and the people in it, they may need to find a different voice to lead the team.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from mrmojo1120. Show mrmojo1120's posts

    Re: It's official: Francona leaves Red Sox

    Something tells me that they worked on those statements together.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from LUCICmilan17. Show LUCICmilan17's posts

    Re: It's official: Francona leaves Red Sox

    I think this was a much needed move. Its clear he lost control of the team expecaly with what has already come out about the players fighting with one another and being me first guys and some players drinking in the clubhouse while games were going on.

    I would also like to thank tito for being the skipper of 2 world series teams. Although I bashed terry alot the facts are he is only red sox manager since 1918 that can say he was the manger of a red sox team that won it all. I wish nothing but the best for him in his future in baseball and also wish good things for him and his family in life.

    I will never forget this last month but i think as time passes I will remember tito for the 2 world series titles.

    THANKS TITO!
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from LeftyGrove. Show LeftyGrove's posts

    Re: It's official: Francona leaves Red Sox

    Bad move. They should have exercised the options.
     A guy who had the team to the post season five times. I have been a fan since 1966, not a new member of the nation post 2004, even  my 14 year old son said watching a game in June, "Those guys look like they don't care, they gotta get rid of some of them, I wouldn't want to be the manager of that bunch". So what does Mr. Henry do, dump, Tito, easy, lame way to go.
    The Sox are back to 25 guys , 25 private jets. Some of them look like they are playing in a beer league, not a professional sport. Then the eye rolling, cursing on the field, hey , I got an idea, try doing what Kurt Warner did, stock shelves in a grocery store, see how tough life is. Tito tried, but the bums in the dugout let him and us down.   You could look in the dugout and see guys sitting on their wallets while the game is going on,.... guys on the railing watching, not many. This was the worst Sox team for chemistry. To say I am completely disgusted, to say that this bunch has pi--ed all over Red Sox Nation is an understatement.
    I sit here thinking, I might be better off watching dvd editions of the happy days of the past. Because now, what do we have, a bunch of self indulgent divas and an ownership who thinks dropping the skipper is the answer.
    BRING BACK DICK WILLIAMS AND THANKS TITO YOU DESERVED BETTER.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: It's official: Francona leaves Red Sox

    In Response to Re: It's official: Francona leaves Red Sox:
    [QUOTE]Something tells me that they worked on those statements together.
    Posted by mrmojo1120[/QUOTE]Perhaps. But it was obvious to me when Tito made his last or second to last weekly appearance on WEEI that he was so done with Boston.

    you did not hear it I think it was Ordway Tito up about "callers say it is because rest guys too often" and Tito just did not take his usual tact. He asked Ordway to tell him who! When Ordway said 'it is the callers who say it", Tito shot back and said "but you are aksing the question. So do you believe it and if you do, WHO?"

    Ordway took one more pass at it and Tito again pushed back hard.

    Between that and his rather short answers yesterday at the presser, you could tell Tito was pretty much sick and tired of it all.

    What I would not be surprised with is that both sides met today and exchanged thoughts. Tito wanted changes (player personnel), the management wanted changes (coaching staff). There wasn't enough common ground to stay together.   
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from patriots1a2. Show patriots1a2's posts

    Re: It's official: Francona leaves Red Sox

    In Response to Re: It's official: Francona leaves Red Sox:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: It's official: Francona leaves Red Sox : This is the perfect reason that the Francoma haters are so short sighted.  Yes you hate him and want him gone , now what?
    Posted by william93063[/QUOTE]

    How about we start with looking for a new coach??? If I was in charge I wait until Tampa is out of the playoffs and take a look at the coach under Maddon. Im sure he knows how to coach the game like Maddon.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: It's official: Francona leaves Red Sox

    Lefty...you make it sound like Francona wasnt part of the clubhouse mentality -he set the tone.....he was the most undemanding manager i have ever seen in watching baseball 40 years...why do you think they acted like that?

    jeez louise
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bigpapa1977. Show Bigpapa1977's posts

    Re: It's official: Francona leaves Red Sox

    It was time.  If the players are tuning out the manager, then they have the worst collapse in the history of baseball, the manager will not be returning.

    This roster is pretty much set next year, barring something unforseen the following players will be back:

    LINEUP

    Adrian Gonzalez
    Dustin Pedroia
    Jed Lowrie
    Mike Aviles
    Kevin Youkilis
    Jarrod Saltalamacchia
    Ryan Lavarnaway
    Carl Crawford
    Jacoby Ellsbury
    Josh Reddick

    OPEN 3-4 spots: backup/starting catcher, 1 infielder, DH ?, starter in RF ?

    PITCHERS

    Jon Lester
    Josh Beckett
    Clay Buchholz
    John Lackey
    Alfredo Aceves
    Daniel Bard
    Franklin Morales

    OPEN 4-5 spots: 1 starter ?, closer and 2-3 other bullpen guys


    If the Sox pickup the option on Scutaro and resign Papi and Papelbon, then they already have 20 out of the 25 man roster.  They would only add a RF, backup C, a starter and 2 bullpen arms.

    What makes you think that (pretty much) the exact same team would listen to Tito? They clearly need a manager with some fire who will hold the players accountable, not someone who will hold their hands.

    Personally, I would like to see the team blown up.

    Pickup Scutaro's option and resign Wake as a bullpen arm/6th starter, then let all of the other FAs leave (Papi, Papelbon, Drew, Tek, etc al).

    Make Dustin Pedroia captain and tell him to hold others accountable.

    Trade John Lackey and eat the necessary 20-25 million.

    Trade Salty and Darnell McDonald for anything.

    Make a move for a real, top of the rotation starter.  If Seattle asks for Jacoby Ellsbury for Felix Hernandez, then make it happen.

    We scored the most runs in baseball and only won 90 games and missed the playoffs with a bunch of prima donnas. 

    Let us change things around and let everyone know that their jobs are not safe.

    Unless it is for a top of the rotation starter, do not hand out any more big money contracts.

    That is my two cents.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: It's official: Francona leaves Red Sox

    In Response to Re: It's official: Francona leaves Red Sox:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: It's official: Francona leaves Red Sox : Perhaps. But it was obvious to me when Tito made his last or second to last weekly appearance on WEEI that he was so done with Boston. you did not hear it I think it was Ordway Tito up about "callers say it is because rest guys too often" and Tito just did not take his usual tact. He asked Ordway to tell him who! When Ordway said 'it is the callers who say it", Tito shot back and said "but you are aksing the question. So do you believe it and if you do, WHO?" Ordway took one more pass at it and Tito again pushed back hard. Between that and his rather short answers yesterday at the presser, you could tell Tito was pretty much sick and tired of it all. What I would not be surprised with is that both sides met today and exchanged thoughts. Tito wanted changes (player personnel), the management wanted changes (coaching staff). There wasn't enough common ground to stay together.   
    Posted by fivekatz[/QUOTE]


     last home stand, during his post game press conference, he was asked a question and said he would have to wait to answer until one of the other reporters got off his cell phone ordering groceries. he asked him twice if he was done.  he'd had enough. Yesterday, he looked like a shell of himself. I'm sure he has mixed feeling but I think relief is one of them
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: It's official: Francona leaves Red Sox

    After reading the statements, the Red Sox must have a lot of tools in that clubhouse.

    I'd also like to see a real leader as their captain and to me that means not bringing back Jason Varitek and letting Pedroia be the captain.

    Looking at the shape of some of the pitchers, I'm guessing some of the drinkers came from the following group:

    Tim Wakefield
    Matt Albers
    Josh Beckett
    John Lackey
     
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    Re: It's official: Francona leaves Red Sox

    In Response to Re: It's official: Francona leaves Red Sox:
    [QUOTE]I'll miss him.
    Posted by bald-predictions[/QUOTE]

    No doubt about it Tito had his faults, but I will still miss him too and do already.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bigpapa1977. Show Bigpapa1977's posts

    Re: It's official: Francona leaves Red Sox

    After reading the statements, the Red Sox must have a lot of tools in that clubhouse.

    I'd also like to see a real leader as their captain and to me that means not bringing back Jason Varitek and letting Pedroia be the captain.

    Looking at the shape of some of the pitchers, I'm guessing some of the drinkers came from the following group:

    Tim Wakefield
    Matt Albers
    Josh Beckett
    John Lackey


    I doubt it was Wake.  But Beckett and Lackey had to be on that list.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from patriots1a2. Show patriots1a2's posts

    Re: It's official: Francona leaves Red Sox

    In Response to Re: It's official: Francona leaves Red Sox:
    [QUOTE]If the statements coming out of Fenway mean anything, it sounds like Francona was more than ready to move on. FROM JOHN HENRY, TOM WERNER AND LARRY LUCCHINO ON BEHALF OF THE BOSTON RED SOX: “We met with Terry Francona, Theo Epstein and Ben Cherington Friday morning to discuss the 2011 season, ways to improve the club in the future, and Tito’s status. During the meeting, Tito, Theo and Ben agreed that the Red Sox would benefit from an improved clubhouse culture and higher standards in several areas. Tito said that after eight years here he was frustrated by his difficulty making an impact with the players , that a different voice was needed, and that it was time for him to move on. After taking time to reflect on Tito’s sentiments, we agreed that it was best for the Red Sox not to exercise the option years on his contract. We have enormous respect, admiration and appreciation for Tito and the job that he did for eight years, including two World Series Championship seasons and five playoff appearances. His poise during the 2004 post-season was a key factor in the greatest comeback in baseball history, and his place in Red Sox history will never be forgotten. We wish him only the best going forward.” STATEMENT FROM TERRY FRANONA: “We met this morning to look back on the 2011 season and to consider the future of the Boston Red Sox, including my involvement with the club. I passed along my frustrations at my inability to effectively reach the players . After many conversations and much consideration, I ultimately felt that, out of respect to this team, it was time for me to move on. I’ve always maintained that it is not only the right, but the obligation, of ownership to have the right person doing this job. I told them that out of my enormous respect for this organization and the people in it, they may need to find a different voice to lead the team.
    Posted by fivekatz[/QUOTE]

    Really???? So your sain Francona wanted out this whole time? I guess he threw away September b/c he wanted out. NO NO NO....all that mess coming out of Boston is a...either you walk and move on or we fire you!!!!! thats what it is!!!!!either way im glad he is fuc king gone!!!
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re: It's official: Francona leaves Red Sox

    The statment from Francona sounds like a polite version of "you can't fire me, I quit" and the statement from the FO sounds like a polite version of "resign or you're fired".  Sounds like this relationship has run its course.  But at least the FO and the manager have kept things civil.

    Re: the drinking, I'm guessing it's not a big deal if they're winning, but losing compounds things.  I think Tito was probably trying to tell them that the status quo isn't working and that a perceived lax atmosphere in the midst of a historic collapse just isn't ok.  He probably wanted them to show, at least symbolically by giving up the beer, that losing isn't ok and that they were doing all they could to turn things around. 
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: It's official: Francona leaves Red Sox

    I think its 75-80% Terry wanted to quit; IMO he had had enough; but it was a save face to make it look mutual.

    Somebody's about to get a very good Mgr.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: It's official: Francona leaves Red Sox

    In Response to Re: It's official: Francona leaves Red Sox:
    [QUOTE]I think its 75-80% Terry wanted to quit; IMO he had had enough; but it was a save face to make it look mutual. Somebody's about to get a very good Mgr .
    Posted by nhsteven[/QUOTE]

    They met this morning for two hours. it was reported he was fired at 9:45, but now they're saying they parted with no decision.  francona returned this afternoon, it was to tell them he decided he was done and didnt want to prolong it. He told his staff last night he didnt think he would be returning. Remy said he didnt like managing this team. Francona said he felt he didnt have the full support of the front office. FO said it was a mutual decision, francona said it was his decision. In the end, i think he left after they made it clear they werent going to being him back. Good for him. I wish him all the best
     

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