It's the pitching, STUPID!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from harv53. Show harv53's posts

    It's the pitching, STUPID!

    3rd in BA, 5th in OPS, 4th in OBP. The offense is not the problem (although we have some guys who couldn't hit a bull in the butt with a bass fiddle).

    We are last in pitching with a 6.22 ERA, and last in BAA at .288. Unless Cherington addresses this soon, we are in for a long season.
    Ironically, the two spots of concern, 4 and 5, are actually doing fairly well.
    Clearly, Melancon has been a total bust and I guess it could be said that since Lowrie is on the DL, it's a wash, but at least he isn't losing games for the 'Stros.
    Bailey? We will not know this year anyway.
    We cannot afford to wait for Dice, we need to get a quality starter now. We should have found the money to sign Wilson or traded for Porcello.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: It's the pitching, STUPID!

    Preaching to the choir.

    (See my Gavin Floyd winter rants.)
     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: It's the pitching, STUPID!

    Well, I would be inclined to concur, as I understand that "Its the Pitching, Stupid".  But, I am not sure that we do not have it right now.  To this point in the season, Bard has gotten better with each start, his last one a gem tainted only by Valentine's gaffe at not pulling him when he was clearly gassed after his first outing of 100+ pitches.  Doubront hasn't been stellar, but has also been pretty darn solid and I expect, as he settles and grows into his role, he will continue to improve (same as Bard).  The issue has been clunkers thrown by our big 3.  But, Beckett settled down nicely in start #2 and Lester had last night, probably due to sickness though he would never admit it, and 2 really nice outings.  So, not like these guys need to be replaced.  The starting 5 are actually looking pretty good going forward.  And, no need to wait on Matsuzaka if Bard or Doubront don't cut it or someone goes down.  Got Cook waiting in the wings as well. 

    Meanwhile, the loss of Bailey certainly was a mighty blow.  But, Aceves is already settling in after a rocky beginning to his closer tenure, and I think he will be fine in that role.  To boot, with Morales and Padilla looking like great grinder additions to the pen with the ability to go long or short, Aceves' skills are not as needed elsewhere.  

    Yes Melancon looks horrible.  Very dissapointing.  But, can he really be that bad?  If so, that is a big problem in Bailey's absence.  But, this set-up role is the only glaring hole right now.

    The staff is a work in progress with new guys, guys in new roles.  The results have been inconsistent thus far, with some horrible outings really blowing up the stat lines.  But, I don't think we can draw any meaningful conclusions after 11 games.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from NUSoxFan. Show NUSoxFan's posts

    Re: It's the pitching, STUPID!

    Definitely the pitching staff is the problem, as it stands the best ERA on our staff is Daniel Bard and he's only at 4.63.

    With that said I don't expect Beckett, Lester, and Buchholz to finish the year at 5.68, 5.82, and 9.82 respectively. The sample size for that is just too damn low. Doubront's got an ERA of 5.40, but he's at least kept in us in the game of both games his pitched and we've won each of his starts, so I don't feel like the difference between him and Floyd is really that much of a deal.

    Seemingly, a Floyd like acquistion would've allowed us to keep Daniel Bard in the 'pen, however the brass seemed sold on the idea of him as a starter so I feel like if given the choice between Doubront and Bard starting they would've chosen Bard anyway. I don't see any quick fixes the team could've done this off-season.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: It's the pitching, STUPID!

    It's a bit simplistic to say that it's the pitching soley. Look at the BArd game. Great pitching, no runs. First two game Lester starters, great pitching, no runs.

    Simply based on pitching, the Sox should have won three more games.

    It's too short of a sample to look at BA, runs scored and ERA. A couple of great games scoring like the Sox have had can skew the average runs per game. One bad outing can skew the ERA.

    Look at Lester, he was lights out in his first two outings. So the one bad outing skewed his ERA. Beckett had one great start one bad start. 

    And if you look at the bullpen, Atchison, Morales, Padilla and Albers have been good. But the BP ERA is skewed by Melancon being horrible, Thomas being bad and Aceve strugglnig early. Aceves has been good since then but it will take a few more good outings for his ERA to become respectable.

    Last night, the Sox still scored just three runs. It would be hard to rip the pitching if it gave up just four runs, yet the Sox still would have lost.

    The big thing is they're not clicking. They get great pitching but don't score. And they had the game where they had great hitting but horrible pitching.


     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: It's the pitching, STUPID!

    In Response to Re: It's the pitching, STUPID!:
    [QUOTE]It's a bit simplistic to say that it's the pitching soley. Look at the BArd game. Great pitching, no runs. First two game Lester starters, great pitching, no runs. Simply based on pitching, the Sox should have won three more games. It's too short of a sample to look at BA, runs scored and ERA. A couple of great games scoring like the Sox have had can skew the average runs per game. One bad outing can skew the ERA. Look at Lester, he was lights out in his first two outings. So the one bad outing skewed his ERA. Beckett had one great start one bad start.  And if you look at the bullpen, Atchison, Morales, Padilla and Albers have been good. But the BP ERA is skewed by Melancon being horrible, Thomas being bad and Aceve strugglnig early. Aceves has been good since then but it will take a few more good outings for his ERA to become respectable. Last night, the Sox still scored just three runs. It would be hard to rip the pitching if it gave up just four runs, yet the Sox still would have lost. The big thing is they're not clicking. They get great pitching but don't score. And they had the game where they had great hitting but horrible pitching.
    Posted by royf19[/QUOTE]
    Sums it up nicely.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: It's the pitching, STUPID!

    In Response to It's the pitching, STUPID!:
    [QUOTE]3rd in BA, 5th in OPS, 4th in OBP. The offense is not the problem (although we have some guys who couldn't hit a bull in the butt with a bass fiddle). We are last in pitching with a 6.22 ERA, and last in BAA at .288. Unless Cherington addresses this soon, we are in for a long season. Ironically, the two spots of concern, 4 and 5, are actually doing fairly well. Clearly, Melancon has been a total bust and I guess it could be said that since Lowrie is on the DL, it's a wash, but at least he isn't losing games for the 'Stros. Bailey? We will not know this year anyway. We cannot afford to wait for Dice, we need to get a quality starter now. We should have found the money to sign Wilson or traded for Porcello.
    Posted by harv53[/QUOTE]
    Why would the Tigers, one of the league's elite teams, trade an effective 23-year-old starter to the Red Sox? Would the Tigers even have interest in any of Boston's trade pieces?
     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from summerof67. Show summerof67's posts

    Re: It's the pitching, STUPID!

    Shades of Tracy Stallard.



     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliamsjr. Show hankwilliamsjr's posts

    Re: It's the pitching, STUPID!


    Clueless, completely! Ignore the silly season offensive numbers, get your head out of your backside and take a look at the game logs and runs scored median.

    This team can't wipe it's backside, even with good pitching.

    Unless this team gets a superstar righthanded bat, it is nothing more than a bubble playoff team with zero chance to be a contender.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxpride34. Show redsoxpride34's posts

    Re: It's the pitching, STUPID!

    ya its pretty clear that pitching is the problem, i would say the pen is in worse shape than the rotation at this point. the sox should sign mike gonzalez, not only would he give us a legit lefty, he also has closing experience. melancon is toast, we have virtually no back of the pen guys, aceves is not a closer, padilla is not a set up man, neither is albers or morales. those guys are all middle relievers and long relievers. sox went cheap on the pen, they got what they paid for. plain and simple. clearly they did not learn from past mistakes. this team will be lucky to make the playoffs this year. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from law2009a. Show law2009a's posts

    Re: It's the pitching, STUPID!

    m
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: It's the pitching, STUPID!

    I agree with you that it is pitching, but in someway, it is offense too due they are struggling lately.  Out of 8 losses, they only scored three runs or less seven times out of 8 times.  Had they scored few more runs for most of these losses, they would have won 3 to 5 more games.  Samething what happen in the month of September last year.  

    Anyway, you cant just look at the pitching stats as of today because Boston gave up more than 10 runs three times this year.  If you take away these three bad games, the team over-all pitching stats would be easily in the middle of the pack in the AL's stats standing.  That is far better than Angels and the Yankees.
    The good news is that Boston starting pitching staffs are in the middle of the pack for most innings pitched this year.  That is a good sign.  Cuz last year, they were probably in bottom three for innings pitch per game in the AL.

    Once Dice K, Bailey, Ellsbury, Crawford and Hill all come off of the DL, Valentine will have more flexibilty with his roster.  Right now he is stuck whoever he have now.  That is why he is having a hard time picking a closer, having a hard time who should play LF/CF and having a hard time who should play catcher since Salty is struggling at the plate.  It is not his fault, it is the players at the same time Theo made a mess. 

    Good thing Boston is only three games behind the lucky Orioles team.  
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from harv53. Show harv53's posts

    Re: It's the pitching, STUPID!

    In Response to Re: It's the pitching, STUPID!:
    [QUOTE]I agree with you that it is pitching, but in someway, it is offense too due they are struggling lately.  Out of 8 losses, they only scored three runs or less seven times out of 8 times.  Had they scored few more runs for most of these losses, they would have won 3 to 5 more games.  Samething what happen in the month of September last year.   Anyway, you cant just look at the pitching stats as of today because Boston gave up more than 10 runs three times this year.  If you take away these three bad games, the team over-all pitching stats would be easily in the middle of the pack in the AL's stats standing.  That is far better than Angels and the Yankees. The good news is that Boston starting pitching staffs are in the middle of the pack for most innings pitched this year.  That is a good sign.  Cuz last year, they were probably in bottom three for innings pitch per game in the AL. Once Dice K, Bailey, Ellsbury, Crawford and Hill all come off of the DL, Valentine will have more flexibilty with his roster.  Right now he is stuck whoever he have now.  That is why he is having a hard time picking a closer, having a hard time who should play LF/CF and having a hard time who should play catcher since Salty is struggling at the plate.  It is not his fault, it is the players at the same time Theo made a mess.  Good thing Boston is only three games behind the lucky Orioles team.  
    Posted by GoUconn13[/QUOTE]

    Yes, but if the SP and BP were effective, three runs should be enough to win.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthomas43. Show mthomas43's posts

    Re: It's the pitching, STUPID!

    It is also hitting with RISP.  The current outfield and catcher AAAA quality.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: It's the pitching, STUPID!

    Amazing the number of guys defending the pitching when the team has the worst ERA in MLB and the 4th best run scoring and 5th best OPS in the AL. 

    And it sure as heck doesn't look better when you look at the individual games.  Yeah, yeah, Bard went almost 7 and gave up just one lousy run and the Sox lost 1-0, but that ignores the fact that the Sox took 3 or 4 against what was supposed to be an elite pitching staff largely because of the hitting. 

    Or take last night when the Sox scored what should have been the tying run in the bottom of the 9th but was meaningless because Morales gave up 3 big ones in the top of the 8th.  And don't forget the hitters had two man on with one out when Salty scorched one the Rangers firstbasemen caught and got the unassisted double play.  And let's not forget the Sox hitters gave Beckett a 2-0 lead which he quickly frittered away. 

    But my two favorites are games 1 and 3 at Detroit.  Game 1, Verlander at his best shuts the Sox hitters down for 8 innings.  In comes Valverde who hasn't blown a save in 50 games going back to 2010, and the valiant hitters score 2, only to have the bullpen give up the winning run, which would have been more than 1 run if the Tigers had needed them.  How can I say that?  Because of game 3 when the hitters gave the bullpen a 10-7 in the 9th which the blew and a 2 run lead in the 11th when the bullpen gave up 3 runs and the win and the Sox lose 13-12. 

    I completely agree that this season isn't over and that the pitching staff has shown promise.  All five starters, even Buchholz, have had good games.  And the bullpen has had some good moments. Aceves, who started out badly, has now had two solid saves. And so on. 

    I also agree it is way too early to generalize about this team.  But, if we are forced to, I think we have to say that, so far, the pitching had been a lot worst than the hitting. 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from jgallag1. Show jgallag1's posts

    Re: It's the pitching, STUPID!

    Honestly, still sending Bard to the rotation after the Bailey injury is going to prove a costly mistake. I don't care who you have as the #5 guy, Bard picking up that closers role with Aceves pitching middle relief/set up makes this team immensly better. Melancon will wind up being ok. He's nowhere close to as bad as he's indicated so far, but people are going to realize just how important Aceves' role was last year. Right now throw anyone into that last starter spot, and they can be replaced by Miller, or more hopefully a rejuvinated Dice-K in the near future. Most of us are expecting Dice to take that 5 spot anyway, so why try to shift Bard back to the pen halfway through the year? Doubront is a better starter, and should keep a rotation spot.

    And yes, a big righty bat would be loads of help, but I don't see that on the horizon. If they can stop giving up 15 runs a game, this offense should click enough. You can't have an all star at every spot.
     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from RSF4Life234. Show RSF4Life234's posts

    Re: It's the pitching, STUPID!

    Im actually comfortable with the starting rotation for now and am looking for them to get better. The real problem is the bullpen as they seem to be completely unable to get anyone out, but again this is on a very small sample size.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: It's the pitching, STUPID!

    Bard has more blown saves than saves.  Last year his ERA was 3.30.  I think starting is about right for him because I don't think he was or is a sure thing as the closer.  Papelbon had the right mindset to close, Bard to be the set up man. 

    Right now Bard has the lowest ERA among the five starters and pitched a gem his last time out. 

    Aceves, after a horrible start, has been perfect as the closer in his last two games. 

    When Matsuzaka comes back, maybe Bard goes back to the bullpen.  If so, I'm thinking set up man, not closer. 
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: It's the pitching, STUPID!

    The starting pitching will settle down, but the bullpen has big problems.

    With a healthy Bailey and a healthy Jenks, the bullpen is really good.  But this is where blame can be laid - they shouldn't have relied on 2 players with a history of injuries to fill the shoes vacated by Bard and Pap - arguably the best set up/closer combo in baseball last year.


    They were a starting pitcher away last year.  And they solved that problem by widening the hole left by Pap. 

    I think with a healthy Ellsbury and Crawford, this team offensively is comparable to last years.  The Starting pitching looks to be better than it was last September.  But the Bullpen is a huge problem.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: It's the pitching, STUPID!

    In Response to Re: It's the pitching, STUPID!:
    [QUOTE]The starting pitching will settle down, but the bullpen has big problems. With a healthy Bailey and a healthy Jenks, the bullpen is really good.  But this is where blame can be laid - they shouldn't have relied on 2 players with a history of injuries to fill the shoes vacated by Bard and Pap - arguably the best set up/closer combo in baseball last year. They were a starting pitcher away last year.  And they solved that problem by widening the hole left by Pap.  I think with a healthy Ellsbury and Crawford, this team offensively is comparable to last years.  The Starting pitching looks to be better than it was last September.  But the Bullpen is a huge problem.
    Posted by DirtyWaterLover[/QUOTE]I agree DirtyWater. The fact that Bailey and Melancon did not replace Papelbon and Bard who is now a starter runs through the rest of the bullpen like dominos.

    That bullpen is going to make BV have the same kind of shell shock and bizarre decision processes as Grady Little had 2003.

    Over 162 games the RS run production will more than adequate but the pitching IMO just won't create the run differential to win 93 plus games.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from harv53. Show harv53's posts

    Re: It's the pitching, STUPID!

    In Response to Re: It's the pitching, STUPID!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to It's the pitching, STUPID! : Why would the Tigers, one of the league's elite teams, trade an effective 23-year-old starter to the Red Sox? Would the Tigers even have interest in any of Boston's trade pieces?
    Posted by hill55[/QUOTE]

    Not now. But we had a great opportunity when Vmart went down, and the Tigers were looking for backup catching. We could have worked a deal by trading Salty to Detroit, along with maybe Buchholz. The Tigers were vulnerable then and I think May have willing to entertain a trade.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from 6k42lt913c. Show 6k42lt913c's posts

    Re: It's the pitching, STUPID!

    In Response to Re: It's the pitching, STUPID!:
    [QUOTE]let's simplify the problem: the pitching stinks and the offense stinks.
    Posted by mryazz[/QUOTE]


     
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