It's Time: End the Valentine Regime

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: It's Time: End the Valentine Regime

    Bobby V is a fake tough guy.

    And no one respects that.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from never1954. Show never1954's posts

    Re: It's Time: End the Valentine Regime

    This core group of players need to take personal inventory.  They are the only connection between the garbage in September and now.  This core quite playing for Tito and haven't even started playing for BV.  My personal view is that BV was destine to fail and knew that coming in.  If he gets the "FatCats" (as Bill would call them) to play great, if not, its what we expected with plenty of blame to go around.  I understand that you can't really let them all go for nothing but a call up here and a call up there isn't going to get it done either.  Shake it up and if that means by BV then so be it but Ben needs to shake it up.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: It's Time: End the Valentine Regime

    Sometimes I wonder if the fans that called for Tito's head (and there were more than a few on this board), are going out of their way to defend Valentine, knowing that you can't have it both ways. You can't blast the players friendly, follows the James reports to the T manager, then rip the "old-school" approach of Bobby V, who does question players in the media (did it all the time with Mets). As someone said, it's as if no one can manage the team. Well, I disagree with that. I think you simply put in something similar to Francona--you have to get a guy that the players will push themselves effort wise by not worrying about what the manager will say or do if they screw up. The team, like it or not, is not responding to Valentine, and it's not just the injury to Ellsbury (and please enough about CC, he is a non-impact player for the Sox...did nothing last year, and you can wait all you want...he's done). The SPs are underachieving and there were reports that Beckett/Lester/Lackey were unimpressed with Bobby V the moment they heard he was hired. The SPs simply went the other route--they actually lost their confidence under Bobby V. Arrogant pitchers with no edge--but again, you can't fire the SPs. You also can't just trade Youkilis or Beckett at a time where both are untradeable. Bobby V must go, and I insist do it now to save what's left of the season. They are losing to terrible teams too, that's a bad sign.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: It's Time: End the Valentine Regime

    In Response to Re: It's Time: End the Valentine Regime:
    [QUOTE]Sometimes I wonder if the fans that called for Tito's head (and there were more than a few on this board), are going out of their way to defend Valentine, knowing that you can't have it both ways. You can't blast the players friendly, follows the James reports to the T manager, then rip the "old-school" approach of Bobby V, who does question players in the media (did it all the time with Mets). As someone said, it's as if no one can manage the team. Well, I disagree with that. I think you simply put in something similar to Francona--you have to get a guy that the players will push themselves effort wise by not worrying about what the manager will say or do if they screw up. The team, like it or not, is not responding to Valentine, and it's not just the injury to Ellsbury (and please enough about CC, he is a non-impact player for the Sox...did nothing last year, and you can wait all you want...he's done). The SPs are underachieving and there were reports that Beckett/Lester/Lackey were unimpressed with Bobby V the moment they heard he was hired. The SPs simply went the other route--they actually lost their confidence under Bobby V. Arrogant pitchers with no edge--but again, you can't fire the SPs. You also can't just trade Youkilis or Beckett at a time where both are untradeable. Bobby V must go, and I insist do it now to save what's left of the season. They are losing to terrible teams too, that's a bad sign.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    I knew that Francona had to be let go last year.  He had lost the team.  At the same point I found it VERY amusing how many people on this board pontificated about how "now that Bobby V is here things will be different" and how Bobby would put everyone in line.

    Seriously.

    Bobby V is a guy in his 60's who hasn't managed in the bigs in 10 years who has the personality of a door to door vacuum cleaner salesman.  If they wanted to get someone tough, they should have gotten someone tough.  No one in their right mind would be intimidated by Bobby V.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from eab2011. Show eab2011's posts

    Re: It's Time: End the Valentine Regime

    This "regime" never should have started to begin with but now that it has, let's see how the great and powerful Lucchino slithers his way out of it.  This is ALL on Lucchino.  When the first shots get fired at Valentine by Cafardo (Lucchino's ghost writer) the clock will have started.

    When Valentine gets shown the door, he shouldn't be the only one.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: It's Time: End the Valentine Regime

    eab, I have always felt Lucchino is responsible for the entire debacle. Agreed.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: It's Time: End the Valentine Regime

    But see he's in power, so Henry would have to fire a 2-WS title winning exec. It will never happen.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: It's Time: End the Valentine Regime

    In response to "Re: It's Time: End the Valentine Regime": [QUOTE]In Response to Re: It's Time: End the Valentine Regime : danny - True, he should blast them. I'm hoping this team continues to fail. People won't show up and the spin will start. They will vow to be back next year. Ownership is a mess. Posted by ADG[/QUOTE] No fan would ever root for his team to fail.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mchampion. Show Mchampion's posts

    Re: It's Time: End the Valentine Regime

    Not sure you can blame Bobby V for this mess but he hasn't helped either.  I would have left Beckett in to rot last night.  7 inning and 70 runs if needed.  The guys is a total jerk.  Maybe they fire me but the are going to fire Bobby V anyway, so why not.  I have never seen starting pitching like this and it has to do with preparation and dedication.  It seem the starters have forgotten this because they all know how to pitch and have  proven track records.  So its on them to work together and get it straightened out.  The problem is there is no leadership to do it.  
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: It's Time: End the Valentine Regime

    The question is, if the Sox do fire Valentine now, who can they get as a replacement?

    And please don't answer "anyone is better" ... that's what some were saying last year, and clearly that was wrong.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from eab2011. Show eab2011's posts

    Re: It's Time: End the Valentine Regime

    Henry "allowed" a 2 time World Series Manager and General Manager to be run out of town.  Maybe if he takes some time from his soccer team and pays attention to the baseball team he might realize what the great and powerful Lucchino has done.

    n Response to Re: It's Time: End the Valentine Regime:
    [QUOTE]But see he's in power, so Henry would have to fire a 2-WS title winning exec. It will never happen.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: It's Time: End the Valentine Regime

    Few thoughts:

    Theo Epstein wasn't run out of town, he ran out of town for Chicago where he got more power and more money and left a mess in his rear view mirror. Very few people could have gotten the sweet deal Epstein did in the wake of the series of long term, dead money deals Theo did.

    While a shame, Francona was not going to have a two year option picked up after the September meltdown.

    I happen to think Valentine was a bad call on Larry Lucchino's part. He had been out of the game a long time. He loves to talk but isn't a great communicator, in a town where every little thing that is said analyzed over and over again. Most of all from all reports he sn't who Cherrington wanted. You either don't hire Cherrington or you give the GM and field manager who he is in sync with.

    But is Valentine the reason the RS record is so bad? Will his immediate dismissal change things? I don't think so. And even if it would, in the real world things never move as fast as they do in forums and fantasy baseball.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: It's Time: End the Valentine Regime

    In Response to Re: It's Time: End the Valentine Regime:
    [QUOTE]Few thoughts: Theo Epstein wasn't run out of town, he ran out of town for Chicago where he got more power and more money and left a mess in his rear view mirror. Very few people could have gotten the sweet deal Epstein did in the wake of the series of long term, dead money deals Theo did. While a shame, Francona was not going to have a two year option picked up after the September meltdown. I happen to think Valentine was a bad call on Larry Lucchino's part. He had been out of the game a long time. He loves to talk but isn't a great communicator, in a town where every little thing that is said analyzed over and over again. Most of all from all reports he sn't who Cherrington wanted. You either don't hire Cherrington or you give the GM and field manager who he is in sync with. But is Valentine the reason the RS record is so bad? Will his immediate dismissal change things? I don't think so. And even if it would, in the real world things never move as fast as they do in forums and fantasy baseball.
    Posted by fivekatz[/QUOTE]

    It is unlikely that a manager would be tossed after such a short reign. Even Streinbrenner at his worst allowed somebody to go a few months. BV has a keen baseball mind, but he's in an impossible situation, with the bad FO moves & personalities, the prima donnas, a virulent press, and (some) hysterical & impatient fans. (BV's personality doesn't help either.)

    At this point, I would say this is the toughest manager/coaching position in sports, including the NYY, LAD, LALakers, Knicks, Redskins, Raiders, Penn State, & other schools with scandal.

    I also find the dis-ingenuine spin about the sellout streak to be symptomatic of the condition. These exceedingly arrogant gentleman need to admit they've made mistakes and that there is no quick fix; but that won't occur
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: It's Time: End the Valentine Regime

    In Response to Re: It's Time: End the Valentine Regime:
    [QUOTE]Few thoughts: Theo Epstein wasn't run out of town, he ran out of town for Chicago where he got more power and more money and left a mess in his rear view mirror. Very few people could have gotten the sweet deal Epstein did in the wake of the series of long term, dead money deals Theo did. While a shame, Francona was not going to have a two year option picked up after the September meltdown. I happen to think Valentine was a bad call on Larry Lucchino's part. He had been out of the game a long time. He loves to talk but isn't a great communicator, in a town where every little thing that is said analyzed over and over again. Most of all from all reports he sn't who Cherrington wanted. You either don't hire Cherrington or you give the GM and field manager who he is in sync with. But is Valentine the reason the RS record is so bad? Will his immediate dismissal change things? I don't think so. And even if it would, in the real world things never move as fast as they do in forums and fantasy baseball.
    Posted by fivekatz[/QUOTE]

    Oh I don't think he should be fired right now and he is not the reason they are playing so badly.

    With that said the people that thought Bobby V was the answer?  And there were a lot of them, I mean people were saying that he was going to put everyone in line bla bla bla.

    Hilarious.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: It's Time: End the Valentine Regime

    It's like a never-ending blame game that began with Tito being thrown under a bus (deserved better despite 2011 collapse), Theo leaving town, Ben wanting Sweum, then shut down by Larry L, hiring a fossil in Valentine. You throw in what has got to be the worst public relations job ever by a ballplayer in Josh Beckett--a man who was once a great pitcher, but now is the poster child for selfish/me-me play. I started this thread because I really do feel Valentine is not going to stop this team from falling to the depths of 15 to 20 games below .500. And I've known all along that maybe it's just time for everyone involved to retire/resign/disconnect from Sox---Henry, Lucchinno, Valentine, coaches....Maybe Ben should stay and we can get a Magic Johnson type conglomerate to buy team--led by Drew Bledsoe (he's loaded with his wine estates), and other Boston sports heroes...who knows....The approval of signing CC, Lackey and Beckett's extension, not making any play for Beltre,Lowe,Papelbon, etc was done by an entire executive party of knuckleheads. Terrible decision after terrible decision.
     
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