Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from The---Babe---. Show The---Babe---'s posts

    Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.

    In Response to Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today. : That's giving him too much credit; it's more like biting into cotton candy and suddenly discovering that you're chewing on a hard furball. You spit it out, then move on.

    Posted by nhsteven[/QUOTE]

    Sounds like you've had some experience chewing on a hard furball...not that that should suprise anyone.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from tbrod. Show tbrod's posts

    Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.

    Watch Ellsbury at bat and in the field, and tell me TEN guys who are better.
    What do some of these people have wives or girlfriends who's rather watch Ellsbury than them? Jealous guys????
    It's got to be the reason for the insane dislike of a really fine player, who is becoming the player real fans imagined he would be.
    I watched McCutcheon totally destroy the Pirates chance at a win, by letting a ball get past him for a triple, and dropping another. He Jacoby EVER had a two error inning? No comparison, unless you love dreadlocks.
    I guess only OPB counts in baseball, right? Look at Ellsbury all over CF running down potential hits. They eyes don't count with stat geeks.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from The---Babe---. Show The---Babe---'s posts

    Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.

    In Response to Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today. : Wow, great comeback to a reasonable post.  You are officially a TOOL.  Look, I spelled that correctly.

    Posted by jimdavis[/QUOTE]

    That means a lot coming from you.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.

    In Response to Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today. : Sounds like you've had some experience chewing on a hard furball...not that that should suprise anyone.
    Posted by The---Babe---[/QUOTE]

    As you would point out, it's s-u-r-p-r-i-s-e.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.

    ahhhh, just got back from hiking the long trail, I can see everyone is getting along as usual here even after 10 days.

    I don't know if I'd call Jacoby Ellsbury the best CF in baseball right now,  but I'd say with the season he's had and how he has shut down the nay-sayers from 2010 that he breaks the top 5
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from The---Babe---. Show The---Babe---'s posts

    Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.

    In Response to Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today. : As you would point out, it's s-u-r-p-r-i-s-e.

    Posted by nhsteven[/QUOTE]

    Correct, my mistake. But I do know the difference between "there" and "their".

    Typos are one thing, not knowing the correct use of a word is another. Ask your buddy jim.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.

    The OP is hyperbole but Ells is having a great season so far, no doubt about it. He has performed better than I expected and it seems to me he has put a lot a work into improving his game. I really love his production and his approach this season. I was once a doubter but he has removed that doubt from my mind.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.

    In Response to Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today. : Correct, my mistake. But I do know the difference between "there" and "their". Typos are one thing, not knowing the correct use of a word is another. Ask your buddy jim.
    Posted by The---Babe---[/QUOTE]

    Regardless, this subtlety was not worth bringing up.  Unless you're auditioning to be a grammar school teacher.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxPatsCelts1988. Show SoxPatsCelts1988's posts

    Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.

    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today. : Regardless, this subtlety was not worth bringing up.  Unless you're auditioning to be a grammar school teacher.
    Posted by nhsteven[/QUOTE]
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.

    In Response to Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.:
    [QUOTE]Watch Ellsbury at bat and in the field, and tell me TEN guys who are better. What do some of these people have wives or girlfriends who's rather watch Ellsbury than them? Jealous guys???? It's got to be the reason for the insane dislike of a really fine player, who is becoming the player real fans imagined he would be. I watched McCutcheon totally destroy the Pirates chance at a win, by letting a ball get past him for a triple, and dropping another. He Jacoby EVER had a two error inning? No comparison, unless you love dreadlocks. I guess only OPB counts in baseball, right? Look at Ellsbury all over CF running down potential hits. They eyes don't count with stat geeks.
    Posted by tbrod[/QUOTE]

    McCutchen is one of the ten.  He's right-handed, has a stronger arm, more power and is 3 years younger.  We already have Crawford, who can hit leadoff; there is a reason Red Sox rosters are never built around speed - RH power is more valuable in Fenway.


     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.

    In Response to Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today. : McCutchen is one of the ten.  He's right-handed, has a stronger arm, more power and is 3 years younger.  We already have Crawford, who can hit leadoff; there is a reason Red Sox rosters are never built around speed - RH power is more valuable in Fenway.
    Posted by slomag[/QUOTE]

    I've seen McCutcheon close up in 5 Pitt games; he's good, but I'd rather have Ells; metrics notwithstanding; just a personal preference.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from The---Babe---. Show The---Babe---'s posts

    Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.

    In Response to Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today. : McCutchen is one of the ten.  He's right-handed, has a stronger arm, more power and is 3 years younger.  We already have Crawford, who can hit leadoff; there is a reason Red Sox rosters are never built around speed - RH power is more valuable in Fenway.

    Posted by slomag[/QUOTE]

    Excellent point.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.

    In Response to Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today. : McCutchen is one of the ten.  He's right-handed, has a stronger arm, more power and is 3 years younger.  We already have Crawford, who can hit leadoff; there is a reason Red Sox rosters are never built around speed - RH power is more valuable in Fenway.
    Posted by slomag[/QUOTE]
    Yet the top two home run hitters in Red Sox history, and three of the top five, are lefties.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.

    In Response to Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today. : McCutchen is one of the ten.  He's right-handed, has a stronger arm, more power and is 3 years younger.  We already have Crawford, who can hit leadoff; there is a reason Red Sox rosters are never built around speed - RH power is more valuable in Fenway.
    Posted by slomag[/QUOTE]That statement probably explains why the RS went so long between WS titles (that and some bad breaks).

    Fenway's dimensions must be more carefully considered IMHO than simply looking to the Wall and assuming RH power is the ticket. Fenway really is a doubles haven more than a HR launching pad and the height of the wall (27 feet) as it extends out 380 feet plus to LF center creates far more doubles (many would be HRs) than it creates HR on high looping flies that travel 320 feet into the what are now the Monster seats.

    With the triangle, the trick and deep corner in RF and the wall itself, speed is a plus factor, whether it is as a runner on base or the man that strikes the ball.

    Fenway punishes LH dead pull hitters except when they pull the ball right down the line because from RF to right center it is cavernous. It does mute the power numbers for certain LH hitters, Drew, Crisp when switch hitting and Ellsbury come to mind. Crawford's spray charts suggest he too will be muffled by 81 home games at Fenway when it comes to HR.

    But a LH who can hit the ball to all fields with gap power? It can be a heaven, a place where doubles and HRs are actually amplified enough to cover the negative effects of the huge RF dimensions. And speed only adds to that.

    Most of all, the RS too often not only made bad assumptions about how RH power would convert in Fenway (Tony Armas anyone?). They put too much focus on that element of winning in Fenway. The current regime's focus on high OBP and pitching certainly have been a more successful formula than making the first priority a big RH slugger for the middle of the order IMHO. 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from canetime. Show canetime's posts

    Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.

    In Response to Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.:
    [QUOTE]His OPS isn't even strong enough to make him a star OF'er. I wasn't aware that ranking 15th in MLB OF OPS makes a player "a superstar before our very eyes". He's a superstar before your very wet dreams. Trade him plus 3 or 4 other young talents for a real superstar, Matt Kemp. RK PLAYER TEAM AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO AVG OBP SLG OPS 1 Jose Bautista TOR 288 69 96 14 1 29 61 5 3 71 52 .333 .467 .691 1.158 2 Matt Kemp LAD 315 54 102 18 2 22 64 25 3 45 78 .324 .408 .603 1.011 3 Lance Berkman STL 259 52 75 12 0 23 62 0 3 50 47 .290 .401 .602 1.004 4 Ryan Braun MIL 306 57 98 19 3 16 62 19 4 40 51 .320 .402 .559 .961 5 Curtis Granderson NYY 321 77 87 11 7 25 62 15 7 44 88 .271 .362 .583 .944 6 Shane Victorino PHI 267 53 81 14 9 9 34 13 2 27 31 .303 .376 .524 .900 7 Andrew McCutchen PIT 320 52 93 22 3 12 48 15 5 47 62 .291 .389 .491 .879 8 Justin Upton ARI 334 52 98 22 3 14 44 14 6 35 68 .293 .375 .503 .878 9 Carlos Beltran NYM 313 50 89 26 2 13 57 3 0 43 53 .284 .372 .505 .877 10 Hunter Pence HOU 341 41 112 24 2 10 59 5 0 23 76 .328 .371 .499 .869 RK PLAYER TEAM AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO AVG OBP SLG OPS 11 Brennan Boesch DET 300 57 92 22 0 12 40 4 3 26 53 .307 .363 .500 .863 12 Seth Smith COL 262 39 78 23 4 8 36 3 1 22 55 .298 .354 .508 .862 13 Carlos Gonzalez COL 314 55 93 18 3 13 51 14 4 33 71 .296 .363 .497 .860 14 Carlos Quentin CHW 293 36 74 24 0 17 50 1 1 28 51 .253 .351 .509 .859 15 Jacoby Ellsbury BOS 348 61 108 25 1 11 47 28 10 30 53 .310 .372 .483 .855  
    Posted by billbyboy[/QUOTE]

    so says the FOOL!
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.

    In Response to Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today. : That statement probably explains why the RS went so long between WS titles (that and some bad breaks). Fenway's dimensions must be more carefully considered IMHO than simply looking to the Wall and assuming RH power is the ticket. Fenway really is a doubles haven more than a HR launching pad and the height of the wall (27 feet) as it extends out 380 feet plus to LF center creates far more doubles (many would be HRs) than it creates HR on high looping flies that travel 320 feet into the what are now the Monster seats. With the triangle, the trick and deep corner in RF and the wall itself, speed is a plus factor, whether it is as a runner on base or the man that strikes the ball. Fenway punishes LH dead pull hitters except when they pull the ball right down the line because from RF to right center it is cavernous. It does mute the power numbers for certain LH hitters, Drew, Crisp when switch hitting and Ellsbury come to mind. Crawford's spray charts suggest he too will be muffled by 81 home games at Fenway when it comes to HR. But a LH who can hit the ball to all fields with gap power? It can be a heaven, a place where doubles and HRs are actually amplified enough to cover the negative effects of the huge RF dimensions. And speed only adds to that. Most of all, the RS too often not only made bad assumptions about how RH power would convert in Fenway (Tony Armas anyone?). They put too much focus on that element of winning in Fenway. The current regime's focus on high OBP and pitching certainly have been a more successful formula than making the first priority a big RH slugger for the middle of the order IMHO. 
    Posted by fivekatz[/QUOTE]

    Agreed; as far as speed is concerned and the triangle, this also applies to playing CF, one of the more difficult in MLB.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from WE5NUTS. Show WE5NUTS's posts

    Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.

     Whoa whoa whoa- Ells is a very good player and I really like having him on our team, but he is not the best center fielder in the game. However, the three that are better than him- McCutchen, Granderson, and Kemp- don't really fit as leadoff hitters (well, McCutchen sort of does, but Ells is better). Ells may not be the best CF in the game, but he is the best leadoff hitter. Law seems to think that Ells is a bad player- I'd like to see a stat (reverse pivot swing, plays deep on balls, I am from Peru don't count) that can single-handedly prove that Ells is a bad player. He is a good contact hitter with more power than most people think (11 homers as of today, already a career high, and on pace for 22) who is a solid fielder that, like Johnny Damon, makes up for a worse arm than my grandmother's with great range. However, the best part of his game is the havoc (yes, Softy, havoc exists) he causes on the basepaths.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from tbrod. Show tbrod's posts

    Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.

    Well, the Sox had the best lefty hitter (or best next to The Babe) for decades and won squat.
    The best Sox teams had balance.
    '67 had Yaz from the left side, as the only lefty starter. Tony C, Rico, George Scott, Joe Foy, Howard, and Mike Andrews were all righty hitters. Reggie Smith was a switch hitter.
    '75 Had Yaz, and Lynn from the left side, and Rico,  Dewey, Rice, Fisk, Burleson, and Scott from the right side.
    '86 had Yaz, Gedman, Buckner, Boggs and Denny Doyle from the left, Spike Owens was a switcher, with Baylor, Armas, Rice, Dewey and Henderson,from the right.
    '04 Had Ortiz, Bellhorn, Damon and Nixon from the left side, Mueller was a switcher as was Tek. Manny, Kevin Millar,Nomar and later Cabrera, from the right side.
    '07 had Ortiz, Ellsbury, Drew from the left, Crisp a switcher along with Tek. Manny, Youk, Lugo,Pedroia, and WS MVP Mike Lowell from the right side.
    Got the picture? Except for '04, these teams had considerable balance with more right handed than lefty hitters. And '04 had the ultimate right handed threat in Manny.
    You have to have balance and not just a bunch of lefty hitters, especially in Fenway Park.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.

    In Response to Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today. : That statement probably explains why the RS went so long between WS titles (that and some bad breaks). Fenway's dimensions must be more carefully considered IMHO than simply looking to the Wall and assuming RH power is the ticket. Fenway really is a doubles haven more than a HR launching pad and the height of the wall (27 feet) as it extends out 380 feet plus to LF center creates far more doubles (many would be HRs) than it creates HR on high looping flies that travel 320 feet into the what are now the Monster seats. With the triangle, the trick and deep corner in RF and the wall itself, speed is a plus factor, whether it is as a runner on base or the man that strikes the ball. Fenway punishes LH dead pull hitters except when they pull the ball right down the line because from RF to right center it is cavernous. It does mute the power numbers for certain LH hitters, Drew, Crisp when switch hitting and Ellsbury come to mind. Crawford's spray charts suggest he too will be muffled by 81 home games at Fenway when it comes to HR. But a LH who can hit the ball to all fields with gap power? It can be a heaven, a place where doubles and HRs are actually amplified enough to cover the negative effects of the huge RF dimensions. And speed only adds to that. Most of all, the RS too often not only made bad assumptions about how RH power would convert in Fenway (Tony Armas anyone?). They put too much focus on that element of winning in Fenway. The current regime's focus on high OBP and pitching certainly have been a more successful formula than making the first priority a big RH slugger for the middle of the order IMHO. 
    Posted by fivekatz[/QUOTE]

    Katz,

    Good points!  But Rice, Nomar, Youk, Pedroia - you would be hard press to find a RH hitter (who can reach the wall) without a significantly better OPS at home than away.  Even Armas in '84 was 100 points better at Fenway.  

    The appeal for this team is that a RH power hitter addresses a weakness in the lineup.  Ellsbury is fine against lefties, but he doesn't excel against him, like McCutchen does.  And when you talk about the difference between Ellsbury and McCutchen specifically, the drop-off in speed is not all that significant - McCutchen is perfectly capable of stealing a base or taking the extra base on a ball rolling around the right field wall or in the triangle.  And the drawback of the handful of balls he would not get to defensively is more than negated by his stronger throwing arm.





     
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    Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.

    In Response to Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today. : Agreed; as far as speed is concerned and the triangle, this also applies to playing CF, one of the more difficult in MLB.
    Posted by nhsteven[/QUOTE]

    You know nhsteven...for a yankees fan you are pretty darn intelligent!
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.

    I hope Steve sees the humor in that.
     
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    Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.

    In Response to Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.:
    [QUOTE]At the beginning of last year, he was the worst CF in the game and Mike Cameron was to be our savior, according to many on this board. He still has a lot to learn about playing the OF, as he relies much more on his speed than on instincts but that will come. What he really needs work on is his base running. He needs to be much more relaxed and more aggressive. Right now, he sticks to first base like it's his security blanket, and does not know how to get a lead. He should be running on the first or second pitch when he gets on, especisally against a RH pitcher, and is costing Pedroia too many strikes. You can see Pedey taking pitches so Ells can run but lately, he hasn't been. Does anyone else see it that way?
    Posted by Alibiike[/QUOTE]

    yeah maybe if he took your advice he would be leading the AL in stolen bases.  Oh...wait.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.

    In Response to Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.:
    [QUOTE]So says the MLB official OPS stat list. Perfect time to make the move for Kemp. Who cares if Crawford and Scutaro leadoff, if it means a star younger talent who provides the missing RH OF bat that makes this team a lot better short and long term. The window will close, as Ellsbury isn't going to keep it up with a swing that is worse than Reddick's.j OBP career high for 1/2 year   Good BA and OBP v. LHP career low for 1/2 year   Bad CS% career high for 1/2 year  Bad SLG career high for 1/2 year Good HR career high                    Good UZR career high for 1/2 year  Good Career median: OBP  .350 SLG  .415 HR      9 UZR   Bottom tier SB     50 CS5    18 % Red Sox need a long term star RH OF'er with elite slugging talent. Red Sox have Crawford, a more talented version of Ellsbury lefty profile, plust Reddick and Kalish who are under cheap control for years. Despite the mixed bag of 2011 on Ellsbury, the only bag being looked at is the false assumption that the cherry picking in the bag is what Ellsbury will average for the next few years. He will not, nor is he the missing puzzle OF piece, long or short term. As it was obvious to trade for AGon, this winter, it's obvious that the Red Sox need to trade for a profile like Kemp. He would balance the missing link in the offense, an offense that has too many lows to go with the many highs. Long term, his profile is is a necessary part that is either filled or the problem won't go away dumpster diving for Jeff Franalbatross, etc.
    Posted by billbyboy[/QUOTE]

    Ellsbury currently has a PLUS 8 UZR/150 for his career. To you that is "bottom tier".
     
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