Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac32. Show pinstripezac32's posts

    Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.

    Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF

    Baseball-Reference hasn't updated for today's game yet, but Ellsbury's OPS+ before today was +134. To put that in perspective, the highest OPS+ Johnny Damon has had for any single season is +118.
    Posted by Hfxsoxnut


    good thing I know this good guy  called Hfxsoxnut

    otherwise I'd be wondering why he failed to mention that

    a CF in nyc has an OPS+ 150
     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from mfymfy. Show mfymfy's posts

    Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.

    In Response to www.boston.com/community/forums.html?plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3aSportsForum%3a81df60f3-70ee-4ca3-9336-8cf2c0a8301aDiscussion%3a02d986de-594a-4a95-8eb8-a18e2941f3a1&plckFindPostKey=Cat:SportsForum:81df60f3-70ee-4ca3-9336-8cf2c0a8301aDiscussion:02d986de-594a-4a95-8eb8-a18e2941f3a1Post:d66b15d1-2e59-4786-9823-c5055520249f">Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.:
    He's good.....but he's no Granderson.......just sayin.......
    Posted by --The--Babe----


    Yeah, you are partly right.  If he was Granderson, he would be hitting .270 and that would not get it done as a leadoff hitter. ---jimdavis
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    The thread is about being the best CF in the AL if not baseball, not a leadoff hitter. Your cutesy response ducks the question which is to be expected when comparing these two. If Ells was putting up Granderson's numbers and had his defensive chops, you'd think about canonizing him right now. Guy's headed for 45 HRs, 120 RBIs, 150 runs, and has a great glove. Ells is playing well, but let's not get silly.
     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxPatsCelts1988. Show SoxPatsCelts1988's posts

    Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.

    Brett Gardner is NOT a leadoff hitter.  He's a #9 hitter at best.
     
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    Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.

    In Response to Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.:
    The next time Kemp gets another super hot girl friend like Rhianna or whatever her name is, his performance will drop. Only a white racist would make this quote. Kemp is the real deal, and has no different lifestyle than any other fan favorite.
    Posted by billbyboy


    Kemp is the only CF in MLB that is better than Jacoby Ellsbury.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Camelwalk. Show Camelwalk's posts

    Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.

    In Response to Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.:
    Brett Gardner is NOT a leadoff hitter.  He's a #9 hitter at best.
    Posted by SoxPatsCelts1988

    He's a good #9 hitter, I'm happy with him.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.

    In Response to Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.:
    Brett Gardner is NOT a leadoff hitter.  He's a #9 hitter at best.
    Posted by SoxPatsCelts1988


    He's had an OBP of .370 the last 2 yrs; yet at best he's a #9 hitter; good one. 

    Maybe he could be a #10 hitter, if he's lucky. Then he could play short center.
     
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    Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.

    In Response to Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.:
    In Response to Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today. : He's had an OBP of .370 the last 2 yrs; yet at best he's a #9 hitter; good one.  Maybe he could be a #10 hitter, if he's lucky.
    Posted by nhsteven


    I didn't say he was a bad #9 hitter did I?
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.

    In Response to Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.:
    In Response to Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today. : I didn't say he was a bad #9 hitter did I?
    Posted by SoxPatsCelts1988


    Now you're backpedalling on the original semantic; if he's at best a # 9 hitter, what is he at worst? And how many #8, #7, #2, or even #1 hitters have an OBP of .370?
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxPatsCelts1988. Show SoxPatsCelts1988's posts

    Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.

    In Response to Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.:
    In Response to Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today. : Now you're backpedalling on the original semantic; if he's at best a # 9 hitter, what is he at worst? And how many #8, #7, #2, or even #1 hitters have an OBP of .370?
    Posted by nhsteven


    A very good 4th OF'er?
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.

    In Response to Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.:
    The next time Kemp gets another super hot girl friend like Rhianna or whatever her name is, his performance will drop. Only a white racist would make this quote. Kemp is the real deal, and has no different lifestyle than any other fan favorite.
    Posted by billbyboy

    Rhianna obviously travels in some pretty unusual circles. Victim of a battering on the night of the music awards by Chris Brown. Hottest couple in music. Then she goes to Kemp, in LA. Most baseball couples probably have the baseball wife as a support person. It's very likely that this was not happening in Kemp's situation. He's not with her now and his numbers are way up, compared to when he was with her. Even his management was questioning his commitment last year. 

    Then again, you never needed any justification for your position on Ellsbury before, or your propensity for calling others racist for no reason.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.

    In Response to Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.:
    In Response to Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today. : A very good 4th OF'er?
    Posted by SoxPatsCelts1988


    Let's just say I'm glad the Yankees have him.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.

    I think Granderson is a better CF this year and maybe 2-3 others but Ellsbury deserves his all star status and there is no reason to think that this is a fluke year. He looks like a young player coming into his prime, and if anything, he is still trending up. His BA has gone up every month so far this year, and he is currently hitting over .400 for July. He now has a wRC+ of 141, basically contributing over 40% more runs than the average player and his 2011 UZR/150 of +15.8 is saving runs. He's basically helping the team win in a very big way for a CF. 

    For anyone not to see that is just unfathomable.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.

    I can only think of 1 person who doesn't.

     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxPatsCelts1988. Show SoxPatsCelts1988's posts

    Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.

    In Response to Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.:
    In Response to Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today. : Let's just say I'm glad the Yankees have him.
    Posted by nhsteven


    That's fine but he really isn't anything special.  Yeah he steals bases but that's really about it.  Ellsbury is far better all around.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxPatsCelts1988. Show SoxPatsCelts1988's posts

    Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.

    In Response to Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.:
    Kemp is the only CF in MLB that is better than Jacoby Ellsbury. Even assuming a half a season defines "better", Granderson is in another league. I understand Ellsbury is your favorite player, but don't be such a homey.
    Posted by billbyboy


    Not really though.  Ellsbury's average is much higher and he may reach 100RBI as a leadoff hitter
     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.

    In Response to Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.:
    In Response to Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today. : That's fine but he really isn't anything special.  Yeah he steals bases but that's really about it.  Ellsbury is far better all around.
    Posted by SoxPatsCelts1988


    Good grief; not defensively (Ells is good, but could be better; he is known to take bad routes to FBs; Gardner is supreme out there), and not with the arm.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Camelwalk. Show Camelwalk's posts

    Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.

    In Response to Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.:
    In Response to Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today. : Not really though.  Ellsbury's average is much higher and he may reach 100RBI as a leadoff hitter . 
    Posted by SoxPatsCelts1988


    Again this is comparing a corner outfielder to a centerfielder.  Gardner is a nice player but I'm plenty happy with Granderson out in centerfield.  Before we elevate someone to possibly being the best in the game they must do it for more than half a season.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.

    2011 WAR    BBref    fanGphs  

    JE                           4.0                  4.8
     
    CG                          3.6                  4.7


    HR/FB                    2011               Career

    JE                             11.3               6.8               

    CG                            20.8               13.4                                                              

    A regression of his 20.8% HR/FB back closer to his career 13.4% is likely for Curtis. Without the raised homerun rate Ellsbury may be the better option. Ellsbury has also seen his HR/FB rate increase but less (4.5% points). Ellsbury is 27 yo so the power increase could be down to that.

    Granderson has been inconsistent for his career:

    -great batting in '07, '08, and '11 so so for the rest.
    -his UZR has been up and down as has his baserunning.

    Granderson is no sure bet to be more valuable going forward.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Camelwalk. Show Camelwalk's posts

    Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.

    In Response to Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.:
    2011 WAR    BBref    fanGphs   JE                           4.0                  4.8   CG                          3.6                  4.7 HR/FB                    2011               Career JE                             11.3               6.8                CG                            20.8               13.4                                                               A regression of his 20.8% HR/FB back closer to his career 13.4% is likely for Curtis. Without the raised homerun rate Ellsbury may be the better option. Ellsbury has also seen his HR/FB rate increase but less (4.5% points). Ellsbury is 27 yo so the power increase could be down to that. Granderson has been inconsistent for his career: -great batting in '07, '08, and '11 so so for the rest. -his UZR has been up and down as has his baserunning. Granderson is no sure bet to be more valuable going forward.
    Posted by tom-uk


    neither is Ellsbury....you have to do this for more than half a season to prove he is one of the best in the game and he has to stay healthy. He is playing very very well no one can deny that but will it last? We'll have to tune in to find out.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: Jacoby Ellsbury is the best CF in the AL and may be the best in the game today.

     If Ells was putting up Granderson's numbers and had his defensive chops, you'd think about canonizing him right now. Guy's headed for 45 HRs, 120 RBIs, 150 runs, and has a great glove. Ells is playing well, but let's not get silly.   

    Focussing on HRs is a mistake.  The two leading systems have JE having a better year. Are they both silly?

     Before we elevate someone to possibly being the best in the game they must do it for more than half a season.      

    True.  Granderson was great at 26 and 27 followed by two down years.  Ellsbury could do the same, his defence has been inconsistent.   Fans get excited about breakout seasons (even flash in the pan ones) and JE is putting the best season by a Sox OF since possibly the 70's.                 


                      
     
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