jacoby ellsbury rumor

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: jacoby ellsbury rumor

    In response to Bill-806's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars's comment:
    [QUOTE]

       Not sure about Holland ???   But as Dad would say.........   "SON, me thinks that nice young man Trotter/Softy is right, Ellesbury should go" !!!!!   Just make sure the deal is good !!!!

    [/QUOTE]

    So to summarise:

    • You don't have a view on Holland, but felt compelled to post about him;
    • You can't be bothered to develop even a basic view (which is all I have) using the obvious online tools;
    • Your raw, yet brilliant, baseball acumen is powerful enough for you to decide Ells should be traded AND that it should for something "good" though, sadly, it doesn't extend to being able to spell his name correctly;
    • You agree with the resident j@ck@ss who, astonishingly, holds the same political view as yourself.

    Gotcha!

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]  So Oh great wise baseball man......  What are the options ????  1/ $cott Bora$$ will make him an F A before you can say FREE AGENT..... 2/ The track record of DL speaks volumes..... 3/ If a deal is presented that is too good to pass up, then pull the trigger !!!  That is baseball 101, great wise one !!!!

    [/QUOTE]

    Stop with the stupid dollars signs!  It wasn't funny the first 10,000 times you did it, and certainly isn't now.

    1) No sh1t, Sherlock, everyone knows that Boras pushes his clients hard toward free agency.

    2) Hetch covered this nicely.

    3) Of course a deal that is good is....good.  Did you pick that up at Harvard?  Why not propose a deal that might be good instead of posting pointless trueisms?

    [/QUOTE]My goodness, why all the hate ??????  Yogi Berra was very good at trueisms !!!


    [/QUOTE]


    I believe they were called Yogisms

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: jacoby ellsbury rumor

    Trading Jacoby for another 1 year of team control player makes no sense to me at all.

    [/QUOTE]

    Morning Monn, 

    It's trading two player of one year control so for me it's a wash.

     

    Yes, it's a wash, but I don't see how a "wash" helps us.

     

    I'm not in favor of trading Ells and usually roast the Ells haters on this site but for Linsecum I'd give it serious thought, a young pitcher, possibly an ace and very young too boot.

     

    I would prefer Lincecum to Ellsbury for one year, and maybe he'll like it here and extend, but I don't think SF will deal him. They know winning is all about pitching.

    (BTW, where are all the posters who scoffed at my CC for Zito proposal this past July?)

     

    The issue comes in that the Sox need outfielder, with Ross platooning in right if he's signed, if Ells is traded now the club need to sign a left and center fielder plus someone to play in right with Ross. Bradley could be ready late 2013 or 2014 but until he's proven he can play MLB he's a high prospect, nothing more. We've all seen highly touted prospect dissappear before. 

    Trading Ells for Holland is absurd. For Ells I'd want a high level prospect plus Holland but we've Doubrant already here. Holland and Doubrant are both 4-5 starters and more mediocrity, more what we do not need. 

    Hetch

    I think Holland has #3 slot ability, but I get your point.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: jacoby ellsbury rumor

    Holland for multiple years is better than Jacoby for 1 & a draft pick, however, I think we can do better.

    Ellsbury and Cecchini (blocked) for Tommy Hanson. Has huge upside, 3 years of arbs, but is a big gamble.

    [/QUOTE]


    I have a question regarding Cecchini...

    1) Do you think this kid could be the real deal?

    I really like Cecchini, and last winter I said I thought Cecchini or Bogaerts would beat out Middlebrooks for the 3B job by 2014. (I'm not so sure now, but you can see I like Garin.)

    2) If so, would you think it would be wise to hang on to him for another year or so?

    I have mentioned Cecchini, Middlebrooks or Bogaerts being moved to 1B eventually, so yes, I'd love to keep all of them in hopes that 2 turn out to be "the real deal", however, I really want us to get some young pitching into our 25 man roster, and Hanson has a ton of upside potential.

    The reason being is if what all the scouts are saying about him, his value could go through the roof thus netting us a better return. Also, just to make sure WMB is what we think he is. We gave up our 1b of the future in Rizzo and AG didnt work out. Id like to give WMB a full year before I go giving away the next guy in line who looks to be very promising...

    Now I know its a gamble, but like you have said before nothing is guaranteed in regards to prospects, but some have an obvious better chance of making it than others.

    I'm fine with holding on to Cecchini, but I think ATL might insist. If we could get Hanson for Ellsbury, Vitek and Jacobs, yipee!

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: jacoby ellsbury rumor

    Boston Herald columnist John Tomase examines the Tim Lincecum trade possibility:

    http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/red_sox/view.bg?&articleid=1061170409&format=&page=1&listingType=sox#articleFull

    In a FanGraphs chat, columnist Dave Cameron flatly stated that the Red Sox should NOT trade Jacoby Ellsbury for Tim Lincecum:

    12:07 [ Comment From namaste namaste: ] One year of 29-year-old Boston outfielder Jacoby Ellsbury at about $10 million for one year of 28-year-old San Francisco righthanded starter Tim Lincecum at $22 million. Who hangs up first? Is the trade feasible if money changes hands? Wednesday October 17, 2012 12:07 namaste 12:08 Dave Cameron: The Red Sox wouldn't have any interest, nor should they.

    http://www.coveritlive.com/index2.php/option=com_altcaster/task=viewaltcast/template=/altcast_code=8c83e87485/ipod=y

    As a side note, University of Washington sophomore Tim Lincecum made the Pac 10 All Conference Team in 2005 when Oregon State junior Jacoby Ellsbury was the Pac 10 co-Player of the Year:

    http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/pac10/sports/m-basebl/auto_pdf/Baseball05YIR.pdf

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: jacoby ellsbury rumor

    while i like big time timmy-jam the biggest criticism is that his delivery is very hard to repeat and 2012 should be a neon sign for what happens when he is unable to repeat his delivery.


    but on the other hand. when he is pitching well boy is he amazing! and 2 cy young awards can attest to that. but its not about what you did yesterday its what your doing today. he is improved as of late but im still not sure i would give up jacoby for him nor am i sure the giants would give up tim for ellsbury.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: jacoby ellsbury rumor

    I think Holland has #3 slot ability, but I get your point.

    Both sides are right.  I think Holland for Ellsbury provides very good value to us, but a #3 is not what we need.  We really need a guy like Lee.  I might pitch Ells to Philly for Lee.  They have to be thinking at least a little about salary relief.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: jacoby ellsbury rumor

    The Phillies need offense, salary relief, and avoid getting older. Elles for Lee makes great sense.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: jacoby ellsbury rumor

    that salary is huge though.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: jacoby ellsbury rumor

    Perhaps the Giants would be willing to move Lincecum for Lackey. For Lackey pitching in the NL may be good for his career--similar to Beckett. We save about $8 to 10 M over the next two years on Lackey's deal.

    If the Sox can pull that off and pick up two of Marcum, Haren or Peavy.

    Then sign Tori Hunter and Ortiz and trade for Elvis Andrus we should be in good shape.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: jacoby ellsbury rumor

    In response to MadMc44's comment:

    Perhaps the Giants would be willing to move Lincecum for Lackey. For Lackey pitching in the NL may be good for his career--similar to Beckett. We save about $8 to 10 M over the next two years on Lackey's deal.


    Why would the National League champions want to spend more on an inferior and older starter?

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mchampion. Show Mchampion's posts

    Re: jacoby ellsbury rumor

    Ellsbury is over rated.  let him go and move on.

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mchampion. Show Mchampion's posts

    Re: jacoby ellsbury rumor

    Ellsbury is over rated.  let him go and move on.

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: jacoby ellsbury rumor

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think Holland has #3 slot ability, but I get your point.

    Both sides are right.  I think Holland for Ellsbury provides very good value to us, but a #3 is not what we need.  We really need a guy like Lee.  I might pitch Ells to Philly for Lee.  They have to be thinking at least a little about salary relief.

    [/QUOTE]

    Joe, you know my position for years and years has always been to upgrade our starting rotation from the top (#1 or 2 slot types). Nothing has changed in my view.

    Ellsbury is not going to net us a #1 or 2 slot starter, unless he is part of a larger package that possibly involves a 3rd team, so I am fine with us picking up a good #3/4 type, as long as it is not a replacement for the number plan: to get a solid top of rotation starter. Getting a #1/2 starter has been my mantra since as long as I can remember.

    I'm not a huge Peavy fan, and I wouldn't offer him what I think he will get, but getting him and Holland would be a big improvement over what we have:

    1) Peavy

    2) Buchholtz

    3) Lester

    4) Holland

    5) Doubront/Morales/Lackey

     

    I'm not advocating trading Ellsbury for Holland. I think we can do better, but I do think multiple years of Holland are worth more than 1 year of Ellsbury + the draft pick.

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: jacoby ellsbury rumor

    You have to slate Lackey into the 4th or 5th slot, he is not going to be traded nor will he pitch out of the pen. 

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: jacoby ellsbury rumor

    In response to redsoxpride34's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    not a fan of trading ellsbury for holland. why? because hold is just another average pitcher, this team doesnt need another doubront or buchholz, this team needs an ace. This team needs a grienke or josh johnson or felix hernandez. Somone to lead the staff. Someone that the team could count on to win a big game, be it regular season or playoffs. We had pedro, we had schilling, becket at times was dominant, but was so inconsisant it was hard to call him an ace. Pitching wins championships, just look at the san fran giants, cain, bumgarner, vogelsong, and linecum until this year is the foundation of that team. there offense is pretty average but yet they are in the world series. The tigers have verland, sherzer, fister, sanchez. The sox need an ace. end of story

    [/QUOTE]


     

    I disagree with this post on a lot of levels.

     

    Whether or not the Sox need an ace should not preclude making other deals. So because Holland is not as good as say, Verlander, Cain or David Price, the Sox should avoid any attempts to upgrade other pitching? I for one will take many more pitchers like Buchholz, by the way. Especially ones without back problems.

     

    If the thought is "don'tt trade Ellsbury for a mere upgrade, deal him for an ace instead," guess what? NOT going to happen. Any team dealing for Ellsbury knows they have him for one year only, and therefore will only deal for him if he is the missing piece. Teams in that position are NOT going to unload their best pitcher. There is no team in all of baseball that needs a CF more than their best SP in order to win in all.

     

    Holland is not an elite pitcher, but he certainly is a good pitcher. He gets hammered in Arlington (5.34ERA), which could presumably lead to his availability. Getting him will not solve all the Sox pitching issues, but it most definitely does help. For example, this deal would free the team up to deal Felix Doubront to upgrade elsewhere. Unlike Ellsbury, and even Holland, Doubront has nearly 5 years of control left starting out at the league minimum, and his appeal is not limited to any set of teams. What team is going to say "A 25yo left-handed starting pitcher who makes the league minimum? We do not need and cannot afford such frivoloties!"   While I would never say Doubront would be traded straight up for an ace, I will say he is far, far more likely to get one than Ellsbury, because he has many more years of control and can be a plus for a rebuilding team going forward.

     

    Really, the only TOR starting pitcher I could see Ellsbury being dealt for is Cliff Lee. Lee has a contract that pays him at least $87.5mill over the next 3 years. Philadelphia has way too much money committed to Lee, Halladay, Hamels, Howard, Rollins, Utley, and Papelbon to simply try to rebuild. As of today, their starting outfield would be made of 3 from the crowd of Nate Schierholtz, Domonic Brown, John Mayberry, or Darin Ruf. And they are going to try and contend with Atlanta and Washington with that on their plate? Unloading Lee for an actual player would be a good step, and the lack of commitment going forward only helps the Phillies.

     

    Atlanta is another potential destination for Ellsbury, given their surplus of SP and the way their last 2 seasons ended abruptly. However, Jacoby will very likely not get Beachy, Medlen or Minor as a return, not with one year left and Scott Boras advising him. The overhyped Tommy Hanson and/or the overpaid Jair Jurrjens are possibilities. However, there are certainly no guarantees those two are even upgrades. Heck, Jurrjens is 99% likely to be non-tendered. Anyone up for dealing Ellsbury for 37yo Tim Hudson?

     

    The Nationals would certainly be interested in Ellsbury, but they are not going to send back Strasburg or Zimmermann. Ross Detwiler? Maybe. More likely, they offer Mike Morse, who could probably be had for bullpen arms, since the Nationals will need help there, do not need Morse, and know he also has only one year left on his deal. Also, the glut of available CF on the free agent market does limit the Sox options. The Nationals could sign Bourn instead, or, if money is an issue, sign Pagan or Melky Cabrera for a lot less money and keep their pitchers.

     

    Holland is probably the upper limit of Ellburys trade appeal. And really no one has ever even confirmed the two teams have talked about it...

     

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: jacoby ellsbury rumor

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    You have to slate Lackey into the 4th or 5th slot, he is not going to be traded nor will he pitch out of the pen. 

    [/QUOTE]

    True.

    There will be injuries enough to keep lackey starting as long as he is doing fine, and I think Doubront and Morales would do fine as long relievers or as trade bait in July 2013.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: jacoby ellsbury rumor

    In response to hill55's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to MadMc44's comment:

    Perhaps the Giants would be willing to move Lincecum for Lackey. For Lackey pitching in the NL may be good for his career--similar to Beckett. We save about $8 to 10 M over the next two years on Lackey's deal.



    Why would the National League champions want to spend more on an inferior and older starter?

     

    [/QUOTE]


    exactly what I was thinking as I was doing a face palm...

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: jacoby ellsbury rumor

    First...it amazes me how many people over-value Ellsbury. Sure, 2011 was great. How'd 2010 and 2012 work out? He's as big, if not a bigger risk than anyone they could possibly trade for. He may NEVER be the player he was at 28 again. I'd expect a big year heading into FA, but to sign him to a long term deal after is a HUGE risk, and something I want nothing to do with. If you're going to trade him, you do it over the winter, or be prepared to not trade him, or trade him for 1, maybe 2 prospects of the variety they got from LAD.

    Holland: He turns just 27 next October. His Whip has gone DOWN 4 straight years in the bigs, to 1.22 this past year. His BAA was it's lowest in 2012 at .243. His ERA, inexplicably, jumped over half a point to 4.67, up from 4.08 and 3.95 in 2010, and 2011, respectively. He averages about 7k/9inn, his K/W is about 2.5/1.

    Is it THAT unreasonable to think he could get even a little better into his late 20s? He could settle into an ERA af about 3.5, and a WHIP of 1.2. For comparison's sake, Jon Lester's BEST year saw him at a WHIP of 1.2, and an ERA of 3.25, and his K numbers were about 15% better across the board. Is Lester an Ace? Even at his best? Probably not. Would a staff of 4 or 5 Lesters put you in a VERY good position to win it all? Absolutely.

    Doubront's best WHIP in limited service time is 1.45. Comparing Holland to Doubront, at this point, is an insult to what Holland has done for 4 years. And I say that LIKING Doubront, and hoping he can continue to progress as a starter.

    In the end, I would happily take Holland for Ellsbury.

    Take off the Sox colored glasses and take another look at some stats. Had the Sox moved Ellsbury after 2011, as I was screaming for, they could've gotten a HUGE return. That chance is gone, and they will get a fraction of what they could have. Oh well. But let us all deal with a little reality. 2 out of 3 years have been totally lost. MAYBE someone is willing to overlook that, but I doubt it.

     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: jacoby ellsbury rumor

    In response to wallyisdead's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    First...it amazes me how many people over-value Ellsbury. Sure, 2011 was great. How'd 2010 and 2012 work out? He's as big, if not a bigger risk than anyone they could possibly trade for. He may NEVER be the player he was at 28 again. I'd expect a big year heading into FA, but to sign him to a long term deal after is a HUGE risk, and something I want nothing to do with. If you're going to trade him, you do it over the winter, or be prepared to not trade him, or trade him for 1, maybe 2 prospects of the variety they got from LAD.

    Holland: He turns just 27 next October. His Whip has gone DOWN 4 straight years in the bigs, to 1.22 this past year. His BAA was it's lowest in 2012 at .243. His ERA, inexplicably, jumped over half a point to 4.67, up from 4.08 and 3.95 in 2010, and 2011, respectively. He averages about 7k/9inn, his K/W is about 2.5/1.

    Is it THAT unreasonable to think he could get even a little better into his late 20s? He could settle into an ERA af about 3.5, and a WHIP of 1.2. For comparison's sake, Jon Lester's BEST year saw him at a WHIP of 1.2, and an ERA of 3.25, and his K numbers were about 15% better across the board. Is Lester an Ace? Even at his best? Probably not. Would a staff of 4 or 5 Lesters put you in a VERY good position to win it all? Absolutely.

    Doubront's best WHIP in limited service time is 1.45. Comparing Holland to Doubront, at this point, is an insult to what Holland has done for 4 years. And I say that LIKING Doubront, and hoping he can continue to progress as a starter.

    In the end, I would happily take Holland for Ellsbury.

    Take off the Sox colored glasses and take another look at some stats. Had the Sox moved Ellsbury after 2011, as I was screaming for, they could've gotten a HUGE return. That chance is gone, and they will get a fraction of what they could have. Oh well. But let us all deal with a little reality. 2 out of 3 years have been totally lost. MAYBE someone is willing to overlook that, but I doubt it.

    [/QUOTE]


     

     

    Thank god u have no say in what goes down at Fenway. You are nuts.

    [/QUOTE]


    I love opinions based on nothing other than...well, your opinion.

    I know, I'm so nuts with how I actually took ten minutes to look at some stats and make comparisons rather than just blindly spout off ignorance.

    How silly of me, I forgot where I was.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: jacoby ellsbury rumor

    Holland is not an elite pitcher, but he certainly is a good pitcher. He gets hammered in Arlington (5.34ERA), which could presumably lead to his availability. 

    It amaes me how many people are negative on the guy without pointing out things like this.  I've already been in faovr of the move, but just to add a few facts and numbers-

    1-Aong with the 5.34 at TX, he owns a very respectable 4.08 on the road.

    2-In the past three years, his K/W has gone from 2.28, to 2.42 to 2.79.

    3-He finished the year well, with a 3.86 ERA over his last 10 starts.

    My biggest concern woule his psychological makeup.  Except for us, he seems to struggle v the ALE, particularly the EE.  You'd have to at least question whether or not he is a player that would thrive in Boston.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: jacoby ellsbury rumor

    Good point, but is Jacoby "thriving" in Boston?

     
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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: jacoby ellsbury rumor

    I didn't. I wanted to "sell high". I didn't know he'd get hurt, but I never thought, don't think he will EVER replicate 2011. He had 2 controllable years left, and could've brought a HUGE return. Factor in Borass as his agent, and I saw enough to want to trade him rather than deal with that.

     

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