1. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Jason Collins

    "Homosexual" translates "same sex". Same-sex is not a physical identity for males and females. Same-sex sexual proclivity. As the APA used it, until the recent narrative language choice of words and prhases changed, "homosexual" was shorthand for "same-sex sexual proclivty and/or same-sex sexual conduct".

    The very essense of the issue, in the legal context, is the issue of subjective sexual behavioral proclivity and sexual behavior itself vs. an idenftifialbe physical identity character trait.

    OK.  Great.  Thus it follows, what makes one 'sexual behavioral proclivity' legally condoned, and another not legally condoned?  

     Moral authority: the golden rule.

    "The golden rule" isn't moral authority. It is a subjective ethics maxim that has changed in application over many centuries.  

    "Do not do unto others as you would that they should do unto you"  GBS

    "Our Creator" is the moral authority for the founding of this Nation.

    OK.  Great.  As long as we are clear about where we stand on the role of religion in govornment.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Jason Collins

    In response to LloydDobler's comment:

     

    In response to georom4's comment:

     

    i didnt realize collins was still playing....thats pretty cool, but he's hardly a name that everyone knows - in this spirit I am going to out Derek Jeter and Eli Manning as Gay...for humanity's sake...

     




    Seriously, man?

     

     

    lloyd...more ruffage


     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from michaelsjr. Show michaelsjr's posts

    Re: Jason Collins

    He will now be more famous and much richer than he could have ever dreamed otherwise.  There have been gay athletes in major league sports for a very long time.  Not sure what his announcement actually accomplishes other than celebrity status and financial enrichment for a mediocre player.  The media has been begging for this story and they found their guy.  I very much doubt if he would have done this without the promise of endorsements.  To make sure the story got the biggest bang for the buck - it was well-timed to be done in the middle of the playoffs.  Would not have been nearly as sensational at the end of season.  ESPN milked it during playoff coverage.  Its not about this guy being some kind of hero for gay community.  It is about the whole thing taking on the distinct flavor of having been scripted and carefully timed and staged.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: Jason Collins

    Who (or what) is "our" creator? The only authority for the founding and continuation of this nation is the not authority at all but the people's ascent to this form of governmentt unless and until the peole see fit to change it. No individual and no government represents or carries out any actions due to a "creator's " authority. They can only wield any authority to the extent that the people accept and allow their authority.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Jason Collins

    In response to georom4's comment:

    lloyd...more ruffage


    Oh, I get it now.

     
  6. This post has been removed.

     
  7. This post has been removed.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from 37stories. Show 37stories's posts

    Re: Jason Collins

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

    Who (or what) is "our" creator? The only authority for the founding and continuation of this nation is the not authority at all but the people's ascent to this form of governmentt unless and until the peole see fit to change it. No individual and no government represents or carries out any actions due to a "creator's " authority.

    The only individual you can speak for is yourself.

    Since this Nation was conceived based upon rights endowed from the Creator, your comment is jaded in such a way as to take the context and attempt to project the bugaboo that representatives of this Republic, both elected and unelected, don't carry out any actions except with a secular authority. And, of course, you can't speak for theocracies like the one in Iran, which the media places way down the list behind "gay's coming out" when it comes to data publication decisions.  

     

    They can only wield any authority to the extent that the people accept and allow their authority.

    True, which also makes it important to point out that the founding fathers make it clear that the People should not accept a central government that is as despotic as the current collectivist central government that has exceeded it's Constitutional powers by the illegitmate use of the Commerce Clause and ignorance of the X Amendment.  it is a federal authority that has injected itself through regulation and laws that make the People it's de facto subjects.

    The People should not accept the way the business of the People is being dictated from Washington, with Bills introduced and not read and not provided to the people, on demand, before there is time to read them and protest them.

    Unless the People run and elect non-party primary establishment choices and incumbents then this Nation will collapse under a financial system that will implode under the weight of the vision of utopian collectivism. What will emerge is manifest from a study of history.

    The irony is that the People are more tuned into the media for purposes of issues of sexual behavior and what the body politic and sports businesses are doing in that regard, all while the federal government presides over terrible unemployment, repeated attacks from militant Muslim jihadists, and incomprehsible debt and deficits and a percentage of GDP and in the aggregate.

    But let's get back to the issue of that brave free agent, Jason Collins, making this public announcment as he approaches the market. Is there a lesson to be learned on the issue of public policy and individual guilt and sympathy as it concerns the organized powers who nominate individuals seeking to further a one-party agenda or individuals entering the market place during a time when lawyers and cases involving same-sex sexual proclivity has now reached the stage where any oppposition is deemed hateful and bigoted.

    I suppose questioning the motivation for someone's public pronouncements regarding sexual proclivity is "off limits", which is very ironic in the context of issues of today.  



    Interesting post.

    But what do you think about Jason Collins telling people that he is gay?

     
  9. This post has been removed.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Jason Collins

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

     

    OK. Great. Thus it follows, what makes one 'sexual behavioral proclivity' legally condoned, and another not legally condoned? 

    That's not the issue. The issue is whether sexual behavioral proclivity is a valid basis for legal class protection for purposes of the Consitituonality of various laws passed by the body politic and various practices of prviate associations.

     

     

     



    You have the parameters of the issue absolutely correct.

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from 37stories. Show 37stories's posts

    Re: Jason Collins

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

    I think that "gay" is a meaningless term and I don't care what he publicly says about his current sexual proclivity.

    Now, what do think about Jason Collins telling you that he's "gay", as I'm sure you can provide personal experience to enlighten the readers of this board.



    What a great comeback.

    "I bet Jason Collins told you personally that he was gay"

    Wow am I humiliated. this is the worst day ever at second grade recess.

     

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from michaelsjr. Show michaelsjr's posts

    Re: Jason Collins

    Collins praised for coming out as gay.  Tebow vilified for coming out as devout Christian.  Why the double standard?

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Jason Collins

    In response to michaelsjr's comment:

    Collins praised for coming out as gay.  Tebow vilified for coming out as devout Christian.  Why the double standard?

     



    Because Tebow is a tool.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from RSF4Life234. Show RSF4Life234's posts

    Re: Jason Collins

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

    In response to michaelsjr's comment:

     

    Collins praised for coming out as gay.  Tebow vilified for coming out as devout Christian.  Why the double standard?

     


     



    Because Tebow is a tool.

     




    +100

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from 37stories. Show 37stories's posts

    Re: Jason Collins

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

    In response to michaelsjr's comment:

     

    Collins praised for coming out as gay.  Tebow vilified for coming out as devout Christian.  Why the double standard?

     

     



    Because Tebow is a tool.

     



    Wait...Tebow isn't gay?

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from SFBostonFan. Show SFBostonFan's posts

    Re: Jason Collins

    In response to 67redsox's comment:

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

     

    That is a brave, stand-up guy right there.  I know there will be some reactionary backlash right here on our esteemed board.  So, thought I would beat y'all to the punch and say:  Much power to J. Collins.  Someone needed to do it, and it took courage and fortitude.  I toast to this man.

     




    I'm not sure why someone needed to do it.These guys are payed to entertain us not to tell us what they do behind closed doors.

     

    Some belive in polygamy so if  a public figure has 4 wives should we stand up and applaud him also?

    Some like oritz are getting divorced and we are asked to give them privacy yet we applaud those who tell us about their private lives.  Don't think so.

    Do we need to know if they are cross dressers or are planning gender change operations. 




    ==========================================


    I agree with you wholeheartedly...why do we need to know? Perform on the field or court and that's the only thing us fans should want to see and know about.

     

    The Celtics biggest problems this year has been missing a legitimate PG, Rondo, but also, and it's been this way for a couple of years, we are usually last in rebounding. We had Jason Collins but despite needing a rebounder & good defender, traded him because he was a mediocre big man. I think his coming out was more of a attention getting event because he had never been in the limelight. Personally, and I recall in the Military, solders did not want to come out 50 some years ago.

    Why, because there is obviously some Stigma to being gay and some gays are troubled & wish a catharsis re: this issue. Personally, I see no need to come out. Stay in the closet. And when many do, they become militant, defiant & do toss it in your face and get involved with Gay Freedom Day parades etc. I don't come out and say I'm heterosexual as it's no ones business. I don't come out and say I have a Latin name but I'm really an Anglo or I'm Irish, Italian, Mexican etc. & I want to disclose it. An athlete's worth is their performance & interacting in sports with their teammates to provide a winning and exciting team for fans to enjoy. Why do we need know their or anyone's sexual preference ??? Jackie Robinson was different  and had a bonifide right although he bit his tongue frequently to be militant & boast his race too as we could see his color but a gay, unless he is blatantly effeminate, need not disclose what is not obvious.

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Jason Collins

    In response to SFBostonFan's comment:

    In response to 67redsox's comment:

     

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

     

    That is a brave, stand-up guy right there.  I know there will be some reactionary backlash right here on our esteemed board.  So, thought I would beat y'all to the punch and say:  Much power to J. Collins.  Someone needed to do it, and it took courage and fortitude.  I toast to this man.

     




    I'm not sure why someone needed to do it.These guys are payed to entertain us not to tell us what they do behind closed doors.

     

    Some belive in polygamy so if  a public figure has 4 wives should we stand up and applaud him also?

    Some like oritz are getting divorced and we are asked to give them privacy yet we applaud those who tell us about their private lives.  Don't think so.

    Do we need to know if they are cross dressers or are planning gender change operations. 

     




    ==========================================

     


    I agree with you wholeheartedly...why do we need to know? Perform on the field or court and that's the only thing us fans should want to see and know about.

     

    The Celtics biggest problems this year has been missing a legitimate PG, Rondo, but also, and it's been this way for a couple of years, we are usually last in rebounding. We had Jason Collins but despite needing a rebounder & good defender, traded him because he was a mediocre big man. I think his coming out was more of a attention getting event because he had never been in the limelight. Personally, and I recall in the Military, solders did not want to come out 50 some years ago.

    Why, because there is obviously some Stigma to being gay and some gays are troubled & wish a catharsis re: this issue. Personally, I see no need to come out. Stay in the closet. And when many do, they become militant, defiant & do toss it in your face and get involved with Gay Freedom Day parades etc. I don't come out and say I'm heterosexual as it's no ones business. I don't come out and say I have a Latin name but I'm really an Anglo or I'm Irish, Italian, Mexican etc. & I want to disclose it. An athlete's worth is their performance & interacting in sports with their teammates to provide a winning and exciting team for fans to enjoy. Why do we need know their or anyone's sexual preference ??? Jackie Robinson was different  and had a bonifide right although he bit his tongue frequently to be militant & boast his race too as we could see his color but a gay, unless he is blatantly effeminate, need not disclose what is not obvious.

     



    Why should anyone have to "stay in the closet"?  Thats the whole point.  The only reason to want to keep it a secret is if you think there is something wrong with being gay.  If you think so, cool.  I don't.  In fact, I think it is a good thing for society.  

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from RSF4Life234. Show RSF4Life234's posts

    Re: Jason Collins

    In response to SFBostonFan's comment:

     

    In response to 67redsox's comment:

     

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

     

    That is a brave, stand-up guy right there.  I know there will be some reactionary backlash right here on our esteemed board.  So, thought I would beat y'all to the punch and say:  Much power to J. Collins.  Someone needed to do it, and it took courage and fortitude.  I toast to this man.

     




    I'm not sure why someone needed to do it.These guys are payed to entertain us not to tell us what they do behind closed doors.

     

    Some belive in polygamy so if  a public figure has 4 wives should we stand up and applaud him also?

    Some like oritz are getting divorced and we are asked to give them privacy yet we applaud those who tell us about their private lives.  Don't think so.

    Do we need to know if they are cross dressers or are planning gender change operations. 

     




    ==========================================

     


    I agree with you wholeheartedly...why do we need to know? Perform on the field or court and that's the only thing us fans should want to see and know about.

     

    The Celtics biggest problems this year has been missing a legitimate PG, Rondo, but also, and it's been this way for a couple of years, we are usually last in rebounding. We had Jason Collins but despite needing a rebounder & good defender, traded him because he was a mediocre big man. I think his coming out was more of a attention getting event because he had never been in the limelight. Personally, and I recall in the Military, solders did not want to come out 50 some years ago.

    Why, because there is obviously some Stigma to being gay and some gays are troubled & wish a catharsis re: this issue. Personally, I see no need to come out. Stay in the closet. And when many do, they become militant, defiant & do toss it in your face and get involved with Gay Freedom Day parades etc. I don't come out and say I'm heterosexual as it's no ones business. I don't come out and say I have a Latin name but I'm really an Anglo or I'm Irish, Italian, Mexican etc. & I want to disclose it. An athlete's worth is their performance & interacting in sports with their teammates to provide a winning and exciting team for fans to enjoy. Why do we need know their or anyone's sexual preference ??? Jackie Robinson was different  and had a bonifide right although he bit his tongue frequently to be militant & boast his race too as we could see his color but a gay, unless he is blatantly effeminate, need not disclose what is not obvious.

     

     



    You are able to marry the person you love and are entitled to all of the benifits and legal protections of being married. Nuff said.

     

     

    Also ps it is offensive to compare homosexuality with polygamy. Polygamy is an illigal practice because of the abuses that occured with in the institution of it, aka statutory rape and many other domestic issues. Gay marriage is not legal because society has issues dealing with what it wants to declare as things outside the norm. See the debate over interacial marriage 60 years ago.

    That being said I don't personally care what the sexuality of an athlete is per say, but it is never a bad to have more positive role models, especially for a group that has dealt with threats and discrimination for far to long.

     

    Also please explain how marching in a gay pride parade is militant?

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Jason Collins

     

     

    Also please explain how marching in a gay pride parade is militant?

    [/QUOTE]

    LOL.  I have been to many of the biggest pride parades:  New York, SF, Berlin.  Pretty funny to call those nutty events militant ... unless you count the leather boys in "uniform".

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from RSF4Life234. Show RSF4Life234's posts

    Re: Jason Collins

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

     

     

    Also please explain how marching in a gay pride parade is militant?



    LOL.  I have been to many of the biggest pride parades:  New York, SF, Berlin.  Pretty funny to call those nutty events militant ... unless you count the leather boys in "uniform".

    [/QUOTE]

    Haven't you heard space? its all part of the evil secular liberal agenda to unite the world in a government that only speaks Spanish or something like that.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from 67redsox. Show 67redsox's posts

    Re: Jason Collins

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

     

    Took some guts for a pro athlete to come out while still an active player. But gladly attitudes have changed enough so that he will find plenty of support. I think his actions will help those who still live in fear of being ostracized and bullied for something that really has little bearing on an individual's character.

    You provide zero moral authority for your opinion. As for bullying and being ostracized, the reality is that anyone who states an opinion or tenet that same-sex sexual proclivity doesn't make same-sex sexual behavior moral is currently being bullied and ostracized "for something that has great bearing on an individual's character".

    It takes audacity to use "gay" and "coming out" when engaging in a narrative on sexual proclivity vs. sexual identity.

    I've never had anyone bandying "gay", define it, in the current context it's being chilishly used to dictate a narrative and advance a policital agenda on the issue of same-sex sexual proclivity, behavior and body politic licensed relationships.

    Those advancing the narrative do not want to discuss the issue on an intellectual level, much less a moral authority basis.

     



    I want to discuss the issue on an intellectual level.  Would love to.  

     

    Gay=homosexual. 

    Moral authority: the golden rule.

    Political agenda?  Political agendas, in a democratic society, are often (and should always be) born out of society's calls for change/justice.  We raise our voices with opposing views.  This is good.  This 'political agenda' is manifest because so many people, like myself, cry for justice, equality and love.  We see homosexuality as having no inherently negative power (in my personal view, it is a postive, natural and much-needed power in our world). 

     



    Natural?  What they do is contrary to nature.  A man and woman are a perfect "fit"  Not so a man and man or a woman and woman.  Nothing could be more un-natural.

    If you believe in God it's clear why same sex attraction disorder is not acceptable.  If you don't believe in God but believe in evolution this disorder is still un-natural.  Our bodies evolved into a perfect "fit" and to procreate. Those with same sex attraction disorder neither "fit" nor procreate so what they do is un-natural.

    There is no scientific evidence that people are born with this disorder.  It used to be considered a psycological disorder but was taken off the books for pc reasons.

    I know I will be called all sorts of names by the inclusive tollerant progressives for expressing my views.  I'm used to it so have at it ;0)

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from 67redsox. Show 67redsox's posts

    Re: Jason Collins

    In response to michaelsjr's comment:

    He will now be more famous and much richer than he could have ever dreamed otherwise.  There have been gay athletes in major league sports for a very long time.  Not sure what his announcement actually accomplishes other than celebrity status and financial enrichment for a mediocre player.  The media has been begging for this story and they found their guy.  I very much doubt if he would have done this without the promise of endorsements.  To make sure the story got the biggest bang for the buck - it was well-timed to be done in the middle of the playoffs.  Would not have been nearly as sensational at the end of season.  ESPN milked it during playoff coverage.  Its not about this guy being some kind of hero for gay community.  It is about the whole thing taking on the distinct flavor of having been scripted and carefully timed and staged.




    Well said.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from 67redsox. Show 67redsox's posts

    Re: Jason Collins

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

    Who (or what) is "our" creator? The only authority for the founding and continuation of this nation is the not authority at all but the people's ascent to this form of governmentt unless and until the peole see fit to change it. No individual and no government represents or carries out any actions due to a "creator's " authority.

    The only individual you can speak for is yourself.

    Since this Nation was conceived based upon rights endowed from the Creator, your comment is jaded in such a way as to take the context and attempt to project the bugaboo that representatives of this Republic, both elected and unelected, don't carry out any actions except with a secular authority. And, of course, you can't speak for theocracies like the one in Iran, which the media places way down the list behind "gay's coming out" when it comes to data publication decisions.  

     

    They can only wield any authority to the extent that the people accept and allow their authority.

    True, which also makes it important to point out that the founding fathers make it clear that the People should not accept a central government that is as despotic as the current collectivist central government that has exceeded it's Constitutional powers by the illegitmate use of the Commerce Clause and ignorance of the X Amendment.  it is a federal authority that has injected itself through regulation and laws that make the People it's de facto subjects.

    The People should not accept the way the business of the People is being dictated from Washington, with Bills introduced and not read and not provided to the people, on demand, before there is time to read them and protest them.

    Unless the People run and elect non-party primary establishment choices and incumbents then this Nation will collapse under a financial system that will implode under the weight of the vision of utopian collectivism. What will emerge is manifest from a study of history.

    The irony is that the People are more tuned into the media for purposes of issues of sexual behavior and what the body politic and sports businesses are doing in that regard, all while the federal government presides over terrible unemployment, repeated attacks from militant Muslim jihadists, and incomprehsible debt and deficits and a percentage of GDP and in the aggregate.

    But let's get back to the issue of that brave free agent, Jason Collins, making this public announcment as he approaches the market. Is there a lesson to be learned on the issue of public policy and individual guilt and sympathy as it concerns the organized powers who nominate individuals seeking to further a one-party agenda or individuals entering the market place during a time when lawyers and cases involving same-sex sexual proclivity has now reached the stage where any oppposition is deemed hateful and bigoted.

    I suppose questioning the motivation for someone's public pronouncements regarding sexual proclivity is "off limits", which is very ironic in the context of issues of today.  



    BRAVO!  You are a brave man for coming out and speaking with such conviction and knowledge on this subject.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from 67redsox. Show 67redsox's posts

    Re: Jason Collins

    In response to 37stories' comment:

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

     

    Who (or what) is "our" creator? The only authority for the founding and continuation of this nation is the not authority at all but the people's ascent to this form of governmentt unless and until the peole see fit to change it. No individual and no government represents or carries out any actions due to a "creator's " authority.

    The only individual you can speak for is yourself.

    Since this Nation was conceived based upon rights endowed from the Creator, your comment is jaded in such a way as to take the context and attempt to project the bugaboo that representatives of this Republic, both elected and unelected, don't carry out any actions except with a secular authority. And, of course, you can't speak for theocracies like the one in Iran, which the media places way down the list behind "gay's coming out" when it comes to data publication decisions.  

     

    They can only wield any authority to the extent that the people accept and allow their authority.

    True, which also makes it important to point out that the founding fathers make it clear that the People should not accept a central government that is as despotic as the current collectivist central government that has exceeded it's Constitutional powers by the illegitmate use of the Commerce Clause and ignorance of the X Amendment.  it is a federal authority that has injected itself through regulation and laws that make the People it's de facto subjects.

    The People should not accept the way the business of the People is being dictated from Washington, with Bills introduced and not read and not provided to the people, on demand, before there is time to read them and protest them.

    Unless the People run and elect non-party primary establishment choices and incumbents then this Nation will collapse under a financial system that will implode under the weight of the vision of utopian collectivism. What will emerge is manifest from a study of history.

    The irony is that the People are more tuned into the media for purposes of issues of sexual behavior and what the body politic and sports businesses are doing in that regard, all while the federal government presides over terrible unemployment, repeated attacks from militant Muslim jihadists, and incomprehsible debt and deficits and a percentage of GDP and in the aggregate.

    But let's get back to the issue of that brave free agent, Jason Collins, making this public announcment as he approaches the market. Is there a lesson to be learned on the issue of public policy and individual guilt and sympathy as it concerns the organized powers who nominate individuals seeking to further a one-party agenda or individuals entering the market place during a time when lawyers and cases involving same-sex sexual proclivity has now reached the stage where any oppposition is deemed hateful and bigoted.

    I suppose questioning the motivation for someone's public pronouncements regarding sexual proclivity is "off limits", which is very ironic in the context of issues of today.  

     



    Interesting post.

     

    But what do you think about Jason Collins telling people that he is gay?



    Excellent post, please re-read for the answer to your question.  On closer inspection you will have your answer.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from 67redsox. Show 67redsox's posts

    Re: Jason Collins

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

    In response to michaelsjr's comment:

     

    Collins praised for coming out as gay.  Tebow vilified for coming out as devout Christian.  Why the double standard?

     

     



    Because Tebow is a tool.

     



    No he isn't.  Double standards on your part

     
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