1. You have chosen to ignore posts from RSF4Life234. Show RSF4Life234's posts

    Re: Jason Collins

    In response to 67redsox's comment:

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

     

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

     

    Took some guts for a pro athlete to come out while still an active player. But gladly attitudes have changed enough so that he will find plenty of support. I think his actions will help those who still live in fear of being ostracized and bullied for something that really has little bearing on an individual's character.

    You provide zero moral authority for your opinion. As for bullying and being ostracized, the reality is that anyone who states an opinion or tenet that same-sex sexual proclivity doesn't make same-sex sexual behavior moral is currently being bullied and ostracized "for something that has great bearing on an individual's character".

    It takes audacity to use "gay" and "coming out" when engaging in a narrative on sexual proclivity vs. sexual identity.

    I've never had anyone bandying "gay", define it, in the current context it's being chilishly used to dictate a narrative and advance a policital agenda on the issue of same-sex sexual proclivity, behavior and body politic licensed relationships.

    Those advancing the narrative do not want to discuss the issue on an intellectual level, much less a moral authority basis.

     



    I want to discuss the issue on an intellectual level.  Would love to.  

     

    Gay=homosexual. 

    Moral authority: the golden rule.

    Political agenda?  Political agendas, in a democratic society, are often (and should always be) born out of society's calls for change/justice.  We raise our voices with opposing views.  This is good.  This 'political agenda' is manifest because so many people, like myself, cry for justice, equality and love.  We see homosexuality as having no inherently negative power (in my personal view, it is a postive, natural and much-needed power in our world). 

     

     



    Natural?  What they do is contrary to nature.  A man and woman are a perfect "fit"  Not so a man and man or a woman and woman.  Nothing could be more un-natural.

     

    If you believe in God it's clear why same sex attraction disorder is not acceptable.  If you don't believe in God but believe in evolution this disorder is still un-natural.  Our bodies evolved into a perfect "fit" and to procreate. Those with same sex attraction disorder neither "fit" nor procreate so what they do is un-natural.

    There is no scientific evidence that people are born with this disorder.  It used to be considered a psycological disorder but was taken off the books for pc reasons.

    I know I will be called all sorts of names by the inclusive tollerant progressives for expressing my views.  I'm used to it so have at it ;0)



    I will not call you a name. I will how ever question your logic for your assumptions.

    If you believe in god, and god made it possible for a man to love another man why do you all of a sudden have the right to question the designs of the all mighty?

    Also do you eat pork? this is one of many things that is a hell worthy offense in the bible.

    Also believe it or not it is offensive to call homosexuality a disorder whether or not you agree with it. Many people throughout history have though that love between races and religions is symptomatic of a disorder. Your reasoning is the same as people who were anti interacial marriage all those years ago.

    I have a hard time discussing issues with people who are so close minded as yourself. Thats not an insult or name calling but an accurate portrail of the words you have typed into your comment box and submitted to BDC.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from 67redsox. Show 67redsox's posts

    Re: Jason Collins

    In response to RSF4Life234's comment:

    In response to SFBostonFan's comment:

     

    In response to 67redsox's comment:

     

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

     

    That is a brave, stand-up guy right there.  I know there will be some reactionary backlash right here on our esteemed board.  So, thought I would beat y'all to the punch and say:  Much power to J. Collins.  Someone needed to do it, and it took courage and fortitude.  I toast to this man.

     




    I'm not sure why someone needed to do it.These guys are payed to entertain us not to tell us what they do behind closed doors.

     

    Some belive in polygamy so if  a public figure has 4 wives should we stand up and applaud him also?

    Some like oritz are getting divorced and we are asked to give them privacy yet we applaud those who tell us about their private lives.  Don't think so.

    Do we need to know if they are cross dressers or are planning gender change operations. 

     




    ==========================================

     


    I agree with you wholeheartedly...why do we need to know? Perform on the field or court and that's the only thing us fans should want to see and know about.

     

    The Celtics biggest problems this year has been missing a legitimate PG, Rondo, but also, and it's been this way for a couple of years, we are usually last in rebounding. We had Jason Collins but despite needing a rebounder & good defender, traded him because he was a mediocre big man. I think his coming out was more of a attention getting event because he had never been in the limelight. Personally, and I recall in the Military, solders did not want to come out 50 some years ago.

    Why, because there is obviously some Stigma to being gay and some gays are troubled & wish a catharsis re: this issue. Personally, I see no need to come out. Stay in the closet. And when many do, they become militant, defiant & do toss it in your face and get involved with Gay Freedom Day parades etc. I don't come out and say I'm heterosexual as it's no ones business. I don't come out and say I have a Latin name but I'm really an Anglo or I'm Irish, Italian, Mexican etc. & I want to disclose it. An athlete's worth is their performance & interacting in sports with their teammates to provide a winning and exciting team for fans to enjoy. Why do we need know their or anyone's sexual preference ??? Jackie Robinson was different  and had a bonifide right although he bit his tongue frequently to be militant & boast his race too as we could see his color but a gay, unless he is blatantly effeminate, need not disclose what is not obvious.

     

     



    You are able to marry the person you love and are entitled to all of the benifits and legal protections of being married. Nuff said.

     

     

    Also ps it is offensive to compare homosexuality with polygamy. Polygamy is an illigal practice because of the abuses that occured with in the institution of it, aka statutory rape and many other domestic issues. Gay marriage is not legal because society has issues dealing with what it wants to declare as things outside the norm. See the debate over interacial marriage 60 years ago.

    That being said I don't personally care what the sexuality of an athlete is per say, but it is never a bad to have more positive role models, especially for a group that has dealt with threats and discrimination for far to long.

     

    Also please explain how marching in a gay pride parade is militant?




    Those who are polygamists may have a problem with you calling them abusive.  They believe because they love each other they should be able to get married.  Isn't that the basis for gay marriage.  Because two men or two women love each other they should be able to marry.

    Well, if marriage is going to be based on "love" then why can't three people who love each other get married.  If two men and one woman love each other according to those who support gay marriage should be able to marry.

    If people are born gay what about bi-sexuals?  Is there a gay gene and a bi-sexual gene? 

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from 67redsox. Show 67redsox's posts

    Re: Jason Collins

    In response to michaelsjr's comment:

    Collins praised for coming out as gay.  Tebow vilified for coming out as devout Christian.  Why the double standard?

     



    Because if you speak against christians it's ok, if you speak against those with same sex attraction disorder you are a homophobe.  I guess they would be called chistophobes.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Jason Collins

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

     

    Took some guts for a pro athlete to come out while still an active player. But gladly attitudes have changed enough so that he will find plenty of support. I think his actions will help those who still live in fear of being ostracized and bullied for something that really has little bearing on an individual's character.

    You provide zero moral authority for your opinion. As for bullying and being ostracized, the reality is that anyone who states an opinion or tenet that same-sex sexual proclivity doesn't make same-sex sexual behavior moral is currently being bullied and ostracized "for something that has great bearing on an individual's character".

    It takes audacity to use "gay" and "coming out" when engaging in a narrative on sexual proclivity vs. sexual identity.

    I've never had anyone bandying "gay", define it, in the current context it's being chilishly used to dictate a narrative and advance a policital agenda on the issue of same-sex sexual proclivity, behavior and body politic licensed relationships.

    Those advancing the narrative do not want to discuss the issue on an intellectual level, much less a moral authority basis.

     




     

    What takes audacity is Stiffy claiming he's a "Christian."

    What takes audacity is Stiffy claiming he's a "lawyer."

     

    Look.....  What it comes down to is intent.  What is Stiffy's intention when discussing all things concerning Adam and Steve.  Besides the obvious????  btw.... this is the subject area that EARNED him the new change in nickname from the docile softy to the 'rigid' Stiffy....

    Some real Christians, like Billy Graham, might discuss this with an OPEN HEART!  I can respect that!!!  It's clear he comes from a place of love.

    Stiffy.....  Unless it's simply LATENT anger, clearly comes from a place of HATRED & LOATHING.  His opposition has absolutely NOTHING to do with "defending the Christian principles upon which this country was founded."   NOTHING!

    The guy is a hater!  Plain & simple.  Stiffy PLAYING THE VICTIM once again, is the easy cop out.   Claiming that he is simply being attacked for "defendin Christian principles," is an out & out lie!  His opposition has nothing to do with "defending Christian principles."  If that's all he was doing, visa vi Billy Graham, I could respect that.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from RSF4Life234. Show RSF4Life234's posts

    Re: Jason Collins

    In response to 67redsox's comment:

    In response to RSF4Life234's comment:

     

    In response to SFBostonFan's comment:

     

    In response to 67redsox's comment:

     

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

     

    That is a brave, stand-up guy right there.  I know there will be some reactionary backlash right here on our esteemed board.  So, thought I would beat y'all to the punch and say:  Much power to J. Collins.  Someone needed to do it, and it took courage and fortitude.  I toast to this man.

     




    I'm not sure why someone needed to do it.These guys are payed to entertain us not to tell us what they do behind closed doors.

     

    Some belive in polygamy so if  a public figure has 4 wives should we stand up and applaud him also?

    Some like oritz are getting divorced and we are asked to give them privacy yet we applaud those who tell us about their private lives.  Don't think so.

    Do we need to know if they are cross dressers or are planning gender change operations. 

     




    ==========================================

     


    I agree with you wholeheartedly...why do we need to know? Perform on the field or court and that's the only thing us fans should want to see and know about.

     

    The Celtics biggest problems this year has been missing a legitimate PG, Rondo, but also, and it's been this way for a couple of years, we are usually last in rebounding. We had Jason Collins but despite needing a rebounder & good defender, traded him because he was a mediocre big man. I think his coming out was more of a attention getting event because he had never been in the limelight. Personally, and I recall in the Military, solders did not want to come out 50 some years ago.

    Why, because there is obviously some Stigma to being gay and some gays are troubled & wish a catharsis re: this issue. Personally, I see no need to come out. Stay in the closet. And when many do, they become militant, defiant & do toss it in your face and get involved with Gay Freedom Day parades etc. I don't come out and say I'm heterosexual as it's no ones business. I don't come out and say I have a Latin name but I'm really an Anglo or I'm Irish, Italian, Mexican etc. & I want to disclose it. An athlete's worth is their performance & interacting in sports with their teammates to provide a winning and exciting team for fans to enjoy. Why do we need know their or anyone's sexual preference ??? Jackie Robinson was different  and had a bonifide right although he bit his tongue frequently to be militant & boast his race too as we could see his color but a gay, unless he is blatantly effeminate, need not disclose what is not obvious.

     

     



    You are able to marry the person you love and are entitled to all of the benifits and legal protections of being married. Nuff said.

     

     

    Also ps it is offensive to compare homosexuality with polygamy. Polygamy is an illigal practice because of the abuses that occured with in the institution of it, aka statutory rape and many other domestic issues. Gay marriage is not legal because society has issues dealing with what it wants to declare as things outside the norm. See the debate over interacial marriage 60 years ago.

    That being said I don't personally care what the sexuality of an athlete is per say, but it is never a bad to have more positive role models, especially for a group that has dealt with threats and discrimination for far to long.

     

    Also please explain how marching in a gay pride parade is militant?

     




    Those who are polygamists may have a problem with you calling them abusive.  They believe because they love each other they should be able to get married.  Isn't that the basis for gay marriage.  Because two men or two women love each other they should be able to marry.

     

    Well, if marriage is going to be based on "love" then why can't three people who love each other get married.  If two men and one woman love each other according to those who support gay marriage should be able to marry.

    If people are born gay what about bi-sexuals?  Is there a gay gene and a bi-sexual gene? 



    Polygamy isnt a example of love, it is by definition symptomatic of a chauvinistic culture one in which men are strictly in control. It is far more about domination and control then love. Two people who love eachother and are healthy contributers to society do not fall under the same catagory. It is like when YOU PEOPLE try to compare homosexuality to beastiality. Take a few seconds and google the history of Polygamy and you will plainly see the systems of abuse and control in place it is not nor has never been the same as homosexuality.

    But it is a great example of something being exemplified in the bible that is not okay in modern society aka just like outlawing of homosexuality.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from RSF4Life234. Show RSF4Life234's posts

    Re: Jason Collins

    In response to 67redsox's comment:

    In response to michaelsjr's comment:

     

    Collins praised for coming out as gay.  Tebow vilified for coming out as devout Christian.  Why the double standard?

     

     



    Because if you speak against christians it's ok, if you speak against those with same sex attraction disorder you are a homophobe.  I guess they would be called chistophobes.

     



    They were not the same and they will not be the same. Collins came out and said hes gay cool. Tebow came out and said he is a devot christian and this is who you should vote for or you are going to hell. That is not OKAY

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from 67redsox. Show 67redsox's posts

    Re: Jason Collins

    In response to RSF4Life234's comment:

    In response to 67redsox's comment:

     

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

     

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

     

    Took some guts for a pro athlete to come out while still an active player. But gladly attitudes have changed enough so that he will find plenty of support. I think his actions will help those who still live in fear of being ostracized and bullied for something that really has little bearing on an individual's character.

    You provide zero moral authority for your opinion. As for bullying and being ostracized, the reality is that anyone who states an opinion or tenet that same-sex sexual proclivity doesn't make same-sex sexual behavior moral is currently being bullied and ostracized "for something that has great bearing on an individual's character".

    It takes audacity to use "gay" and "coming out" when engaging in a narrative on sexual proclivity vs. sexual identity.

    I've never had anyone bandying "gay", define it, in the current context it's being chilishly used to dictate a narrative and advance a policital agenda on the issue of same-sex sexual proclivity, behavior and body politic licensed relationships.

    Those advancing the narrative do not want to discuss the issue on an intellectual level, much less a moral authority basis.

     



    I want to discuss the issue on an intellectual level.  Would love to.  

     

    Gay=homosexual. 

    Moral authority: the golden rule.

    Political agenda?  Political agendas, in a democratic society, are often (and should always be) born out of society's calls for change/justice.  We raise our voices with opposing views.  This is good.  This 'political agenda' is manifest because so many people, like myself, cry for justice, equality and love.  We see homosexuality as having no inherently negative power (in my personal view, it is a postive, natural and much-needed power in our world). 

     

     



    Natural?  What they do is contrary to nature.  A man and woman are a perfect "fit"  Not so a man and man or a woman and woman.  Nothing could be more un-natural.

     

    If you believe in God it's clear why same sex attraction disorder is not acceptable.  If you don't believe in God but believe in evolution this disorder is still un-natural.  Our bodies evolved into a perfect "fit" and to procreate. Those with same sex attraction disorder neither "fit" nor procreate so what they do is un-natural.

    There is no scientific evidence that people are born with this disorder.  It used to be considered a psycological disorder but was taken off the books for pc reasons.

    I know I will be called all sorts of names by the inclusive tollerant progressives for expressing my views.  I'm used to it so have at it ;0)

     



    I will not call you a name. I will how ever question your logic for your assumptions.

     

    If you believe in god, and god made it possible for a man to love another man why do you all of a sudden have the right to question the designs of the all mighty?

     

     

    God gives people free will, he doesn't make them do anything.  There is no proof of a gay gene. People choose many behaviors that God doesn't agree with, doesn't make it right.

    Also do you eat pork? this is one of many things that is a hell worthy offense in the bible.

    I'm not jewish.  New testament christians are allowed to eat pork.

    Also believe it or not it is offensive to call homosexuality a disorder whether or not you agree with it.

    Clinically speaking it was on the books as same sex attraction disorder until the pc police took it out.

    Many people throughout history have though that love between races and religions is symptomatic of a disorder. Your reasoning is the same as people who were anti interacial marriage all those years ago.

    We are still talking about love between a man and a woman, the natural order of things, they fit perfectly with eachother.  Men do not "fit" together and neither do woman.

    I have a hard time discussing issues with people who are so close minded as yourself. Thats not an insult or name calling but an accurate portrail of the words you have typed into your comment box and submitted to BDC.

    You are calling me a name.  Simply because I don't agree with you I'm closed minded.  I have very good reasons for my beliefs but you won't listen.  Perhaps you are the closed minded one.




     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from 67redsox. Show 67redsox's posts

    Re: Jason Collins

    In response to RSF4Life234's comment:

    In response to 67redsox's comment:

     

    In response to michaelsjr's comment:

     

    Collins praised for coming out as gay.  Tebow vilified for coming out as devout Christian.  Why the double standard?

     

     



    Because if you speak against christians it's ok, if you speak against those with same sex attraction disorder you are a homophobe.  I guess they would be called chistophobes.

     

     



    They were not the same and they will not be the same. Collins came out and said hes gay cool. Tebow came out and said he is a devot christian and this is who you should vote for or you are going to hell. That is not OKAY

     




    Please provide your source for tebows quote.  Why can't I refer to people who are closed minded to christian beliefs christophobes.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Jason Collins

    In response to 67redsox's comment:

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

     

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

     

    Took some guts for a pro athlete to come out while still an active player. But gladly attitudes have changed enough so that he will find plenty of support. I think his actions will help those who still live in fear of being ostracized and bullied for something that really has little bearing on an individual's character.

    You provide zero moral authority for your opinion. As for bullying and being ostracized, the reality is that anyone who states an opinion or tenet that same-sex sexual proclivity doesn't make same-sex sexual behavior moral is currently being bullied and ostracized "for something that has great bearing on an individual's character".

    It takes audacity to use "gay" and "coming out" when engaging in a narrative on sexual proclivity vs. sexual identity.

    I've never had anyone bandying "gay", define it, in the current context it's being chilishly used to dictate a narrative and advance a policital agenda on the issue of same-sex sexual proclivity, behavior and body politic licensed relationships.

    Those advancing the narrative do not want to discuss the issue on an intellectual level, much less a moral authority basis.

     



    I want to discuss the issue on an intellectual level.  Would love to.  

     

    Gay=homosexual. 

    Moral authority: the golden rule.

    Political agenda?  Political agendas, in a democratic society, are often (and should always be) born out of society's calls for change/justice.  We raise our voices with opposing views.  This is good.  This 'political agenda' is manifest because so many people, like myself, cry for justice, equality and love.  We see homosexuality as having no inherently negative power (in my personal view, it is a postive, natural and much-needed power in our world). 

     

     



    Natural?  What they do is contrary to nature.  A man and woman are a perfect "fit"  Not so a man and man or a woman and woman.  Nothing could be more un-natural.

     

    If you believe in God it's clear why same sex attraction disorder is not acceptable.  If you don't believe in God but believe in evolution this disorder is still un-natural.  Our bodies evolved into a perfect "fit" and to procreate. Those with same sex attraction disorder neither "fit" nor procreate so what they do is un-natural.

    There is no scientific evidence that people are born with this disorder.  It used to be considered a psycological disorder but was taken off the books for pc reasons.

    I know I will be called all sorts of names by the inclusive tollerant progressives for expressing my views.  I'm used to it so have at it ;0)



    There is no scientific evidence that people are born with this disorder.

    This is factually incorrect. People who are gay are, in fact, born that way. Its not a choice.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from 67redsox. Show 67redsox's posts

    Re: Jason Collins

    In response to RSF4Life234's comment:

    In response to 67redsox's comment:

     

    In response to RSF4Life234's comment:

     

    In response to SFBostonFan's comment:

     

    In response to 67redsox's comment:

     

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

     

    That is a brave, stand-up guy right there.  I know there will be some reactionary backlash right here on our esteemed board.  So, thought I would beat y'all to the punch and say:  Much power to J. Collins.  Someone needed to do it, and it took courage and fortitude.  I toast to this man.

     




    I'm not sure why someone needed to do it.These guys are payed to entertain us not to tell us what they do behind closed doors.

     

    Some belive in polygamy so if  a public figure has 4 wives should we stand up and applaud him also?

    Some like oritz are getting divorced and we are asked to give them privacy yet we applaud those who tell us about their private lives.  Don't think so.

    Do we need to know if they are cross dressers or are planning gender change operations. 

     




    ==========================================

     


    I agree with you wholeheartedly...why do we need to know? Perform on the field or court and that's the only thing us fans should want to see and know about.

     

    The Celtics biggest problems this year has been missing a legitimate PG, Rondo, but also, and it's been this way for a couple of years, we are usually last in rebounding. We had Jason Collins but despite needing a rebounder & good defender, traded him because he was a mediocre big man. I think his coming out was more of a attention getting event because he had never been in the limelight. Personally, and I recall in the Military, solders did not want to come out 50 some years ago.

    Why, because there is obviously some Stigma to being gay and some gays are troubled & wish a catharsis re: this issue. Personally, I see no need to come out. Stay in the closet. And when many do, they become militant, defiant & do toss it in your face and get involved with Gay Freedom Day parades etc. I don't come out and say I'm heterosexual as it's no ones business. I don't come out and say I have a Latin name but I'm really an Anglo or I'm Irish, Italian, Mexican etc. & I want to disclose it. An athlete's worth is their performance & interacting in sports with their teammates to provide a winning and exciting team for fans to enjoy. Why do we need know their or anyone's sexual preference ??? Jackie Robinson was different  and had a bonifide right although he bit his tongue frequently to be militant & boast his race too as we could see his color but a gay, unless he is blatantly effeminate, need not disclose what is not obvious.

     

     



    You are able to marry the person you love and are entitled to all of the benifits and legal protections of being married. Nuff said.

     

     

    Also ps it is offensive to compare homosexuality with polygamy. Polygamy is an illigal practice because of the abuses that occured with in the institution of it, aka statutory rape and many other domestic issues. Gay marriage is not legal because society has issues dealing with what it wants to declare as things outside the norm. See the debate over interacial marriage 60 years ago.

    That being said I don't personally care what the sexuality of an athlete is per say, but it is never a bad to have more positive role models, especially for a group that has dealt with threats and discrimination for far to long.

     

    Also please explain how marching in a gay pride parade is militant?

     




    Those who are polygamists may have a problem with you calling them abusive.  They believe because they love each other they should be able to get married.  Isn't that the basis for gay marriage.  Because two men or two women love each other they should be able to marry.

     

    Well, if marriage is going to be based on "love" then why can't three people who love each other get married.  If two men and one woman love each other according to those who support gay marriage should be able to marry.

    If people are born gay what about bi-sexuals?  Is there a gay gene and a bi-sexual gene? 

     



    Polygamy isnt a example of love, it is by definition symptomatic of a chauvinistic culture one in which men are strictly in control. It is far more about domination and control then love. Two people who love eachother and are healthy contributers to society do not fall under the same catagory. It is like when YOU PEOPLE try to compare homosexuality to beastiality. Take a few seconds and google the history of Polygamy and you will plainly see the systems of abuse and control in place it is not nor has never been the same as homosexuality.

     

    But it is a great example of something being exemplified in the bible that is not okay in modern society aka just like outlawing of homosexuality.


    Sister wives say they love being in a polygamist relationship.  Are you saying they don't love eachother.  Who are you to say that.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Jason Collins

    This subject area is probably the biggest reason I stopped going to my very evangelical Christian church.

    It took me many years to finally admit the hypocrisy of their preaching.......

    PREACHING endlessly about the equality of ALL SIN!  How they were EQUALLY an affront to God!

    Soooo many sermons talking about how the gossipy wife, the covetous neighbor, the lying cheating husband, the gluttonous mother, the greedy banker, the lazy son, OR the PRIDEFUL lawyer was every bit as "sinfull" as the gay brother. 

    I bought it for years, until I realized that many 'Christians' completely ignored these sermons, and would speak with a 'wicked tongue' whenever discussing ALL THINGS CONCERNING Homosexuality.  It really was the ONLY subject where OPEN DISDAIN and HATRED were permissable to a way too large segment of the Christian community.

    VERY SAD!  Blind!

    I can hear someone saying .......  "forgive them father, for they not not what they do."

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from RSF4Life234. Show RSF4Life234's posts

    Re: Jason Collins

    In response to 67redsox's comment:

    In response to RSF4Life234's comment:

     

    In response to 67redsox's comment:

     

    In response to RSF4Life234's comment:

     

    In response to SFBostonFan's comment:

     

    In response to 67redsox's comment:

     

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

     

    That is a brave, stand-up guy right there.  I know there will be some reactionary backlash right here on our esteemed board.  So, thought I would beat y'all to the punch and say:  Much power to J. Collins.  Someone needed to do it, and it took courage and fortitude.  I toast to this man.

     




    I'm not sure why someone needed to do it.These guys are payed to entertain us not to tell us what they do behind closed doors.

     

    Some belive in polygamy so if  a public figure has 4 wives should we stand up and applaud him also?

    Some like oritz are getting divorced and we are asked to give them privacy yet we applaud those who tell us about their private lives.  Don't think so.

    Do we need to know if they are cross dressers or are planning gender change operations. 

     




    ==========================================

     


    I agree with you wholeheartedly...why do we need to know? Perform on the field or court and that's the only thing us fans should want to see and know about.

     

    The Celtics biggest problems this year has been missing a legitimate PG, Rondo, but also, and it's been this way for a couple of years, we are usually last in rebounding. We had Jason Collins but despite needing a rebounder & good defender, traded him because he was a mediocre big man. I think his coming out was more of a attention getting event because he had never been in the limelight. Personally, and I recall in the Military, solders did not want to come out 50 some years ago.

    Why, because there is obviously some Stigma to being gay and some gays are troubled & wish a catharsis re: this issue. Personally, I see no need to come out. Stay in the closet. And when many do, they become militant, defiant & do toss it in your face and get involved with Gay Freedom Day parades etc. I don't come out and say I'm heterosexual as it's no ones business. I don't come out and say I have a Latin name but I'm really an Anglo or I'm Irish, Italian, Mexican etc. & I want to disclose it. An athlete's worth is their performance & interacting in sports with their teammates to provide a winning and exciting team for fans to enjoy. Why do we need know their or anyone's sexual preference ??? Jackie Robinson was different  and had a bonifide right although he bit his tongue frequently to be militant & boast his race too as we could see his color but a gay, unless he is blatantly effeminate, need not disclose what is not obvious.

     

     



    You are able to marry the person you love and are entitled to all of the benifits and legal protections of being married. Nuff said.

     

     

    Also ps it is offensive to compare homosexuality with polygamy. Polygamy is an illigal practice because of the abuses that occured with in the institution of it, aka statutory rape and many other domestic issues. Gay marriage is not legal because society has issues dealing with what it wants to declare as things outside the norm. See the debate over interacial marriage 60 years ago.

    That being said I don't personally care what the sexuality of an athlete is per say, but it is never a bad to have more positive role models, especially for a group that has dealt with threats and discrimination for far to long.

     

    Also please explain how marching in a gay pride parade is militant?

     




    Those who are polygamists may have a problem with you calling them abusive.  They believe because they love each other they should be able to get married.  Isn't that the basis for gay marriage.  Because two men or two women love each other they should be able to marry.

     

    Well, if marriage is going to be based on "love" then why can't three people who love each other get married.  If two men and one woman love each other according to those who support gay marriage should be able to marry.

    If people are born gay what about bi-sexuals?  Is there a gay gene and a bi-sexual gene? 

     



    Polygamy isnt a example of love, it is by definition symptomatic of a chauvinistic culture one in which men are strictly in control. It is far more about domination and control then love. Two people who love eachother and are healthy contributers to society do not fall under the same catagory. It is like when YOU PEOPLE try to compare homosexuality to beastiality. Take a few seconds and google the history of Polygamy and you will plainly see the systems of abuse and control in place it is not nor has never been the same as homosexuality.

     

    But it is a great example of something being exemplified in the bible that is not okay in modern society aka just like outlawing of homosexuality.

     


    Sister wives say they love being in a polygamist relationship.  Are you saying they don't love eachother.  Who are you to say that.

     



    Please reread the first part of the paragraph and attempt to comprehend it and their you have your answer. Feel free to disagree with it but its the HISTORICAL TRUTH, something you seem to have problems with.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Jason Collins

     The Nature vs. Nurture debate is immaterial!  A red herring argument, constructed for the weak of mind, with the 'intention' of justifying their loathing and hatred!  Plain and simple!

    Ask yourself???   Do Stiffy and the others discuss this subject out of love, or hate?  SIMPLE!

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Jason Collins

    Their "RHETORICAL STYLE" of 'discussing' this subject speaks for itself.  There is not one shed of love or humanity in the tone or tenor with which they engage this 'debate.'  NONE!

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from RSF4Life234. Show RSF4Life234's posts

    Re: Jason Collins

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    This subject area is probably the biggest reason I stopped going to my very evangelical Christian church.

    It took me many years to finally admit the hypocrisy of their preaching.......

    PREACHING endlessly about the equality of ALL SIN!  How they were EQUALLY an affront to God!

    Soooo many sermons talking about how the gossipy wife, the covetous neighbor, the lying cheating husband, the gluttonous mother, the greedy banker, the lazy son, OR the PRIDEFUL lawyer was every bit as "sinfull" as the gay brother. 

    I bought it for years, until I realized that many 'Christians' completely ignored these sermons, and would speak with a 'wicked tongue' whenever discussing ALL THINGS CONCERNING Homosexuality.  It really was the ONLY subject where OPEN DISDAIN and HATRED were permissable to a way too large segment of the Christian community.

    VERY SAD!  Blind!

    I can hear someone saying .......  "forgive them father, for they not not what they do."



    This outlines my issues with the modern conservative movement (I consider myself just left of center). It seems to have become a combination or Rand ideology with a healthy serving of Christianity. The real issue i have is that in reality these are totally conflicting ideologies.

     

     

     

    That being said good for Collins for coming out its pretty brave as is evident here by those who hate to hear of such things. I’m done with this conversation and am looking for a comeback by the Red Sox.

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from 67redsox. Show 67redsox's posts

    Re: Jason Collins

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to 67redsox's comment:

     

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

     

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

     

    Took some guts for a pro athlete to come out while still an active player. But gladly attitudes have changed enough so that he will find plenty of support. I think his actions will help those who still live in fear of being ostracized and bullied for something that really has little bearing on an individual's character.

    You provide zero moral authority for your opinion. As for bullying and being ostracized, the reality is that anyone who states an opinion or tenet that same-sex sexual proclivity doesn't make same-sex sexual behavior moral is currently being bullied and ostracized "for something that has great bearing on an individual's character".

    It takes audacity to use "gay" and "coming out" when engaging in a narrative on sexual proclivity vs. sexual identity.

    I've never had anyone bandying "gay", define it, in the current context it's being chilishly used to dictate a narrative and advance a policital agenda on the issue of same-sex sexual proclivity, behavior and body politic licensed relationships.

    Those advancing the narrative do not want to discuss the issue on an intellectual level, much less a moral authority basis.

     



    I want to discuss the issue on an intellectual level.  Would love to.  

     

    Gay=homosexual. 

    Moral authority: the golden rule.

    Political agenda?  Political agendas, in a democratic society, are often (and should always be) born out of society's calls for change/justice.  We raise our voices with opposing views.  This is good.  This 'political agenda' is manifest because so many people, like myself, cry for justice, equality and love.  We see homosexuality as having no inherently negative power (in my personal view, it is a postive, natural and much-needed power in our world). 

     

     



    Natural?  What they do is contrary to nature.  A man and woman are a perfect "fit"  Not so a man and man or a woman and woman.  Nothing could be more un-natural.

     

    If you believe in God it's clear why same sex attraction disorder is not acceptable.  If you don't believe in God but believe in evolution this disorder is still un-natural.  Our bodies evolved into a perfect "fit" and to procreate. Those with same sex attraction disorder neither "fit" nor procreate so what they do is un-natural.

    There is no scientific evidence that people are born with this disorder.  It used to be considered a psycological disorder but was taken off the books for pc reasons.

    I know I will be called all sorts of names by the inclusive tollerant progressives for expressing my views.  I'm used to it so have at it ;0)

     



    There is no scientific evidence that people are born with this disorder.

     

    This is factually incorrect. People who are gay are, in fact, born that way. Its not a choice.



    There is no scientific proof.  Both sides have evidence to prove their points.  There is no conclusive scientific evidence that people are born gay.  What about bi-sexuals.  Are they born that way.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Jason Collins

    In response to 67redsox's comment:

    In response to RSF4Life234's comment:

    In response to 67redsox's comment:

    In response to michaelsjr's comment:

     

    Collins praised for coming out as gay.  Tebow vilified for coming out as devout Christian.  Why the double standard?

    Because if you speak against christians it's ok, if you speak against those with same sex attraction disorder you are a homophobe.  I guess they would be called chistophobes.

     

    They were not the same and they will not be the same. Collins came out and said hes gay cool. Tebow came out and said he is a devot christian and this is who you should vote for or you are going to hell. That is not OKAY

     

    Please provide your source for tebows quote.  Why can't I refer to people who are closed minded to christian beliefs christophobes.

     

    To be fair.....  This is true!  The only religion that it is 'SAFE' to mock & denigrate, is Christianity.

    SADLY.....

    It's folks like Stiffy who bring this on with this type of hateful rhetoric.  Don't kid yourself!  His rhetoric is nothing short of hateful!!!!  You refuse to denounce it, and even parrot it???  67....  You reap what you sow!

     

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from RSF4Life234. Show RSF4Life234's posts

    Re: Jason Collins

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    In response to 67redsox's comment:

     

    In response to RSF4Life234's comment:

    In response to 67redsox's comment:

    In response to michaelsjr's comment:

     

    Collins praised for coming out as gay.  Tebow vilified for coming out as devout Christian.  Why the double standard?

    Because if you speak against christians it's ok, if you speak against those with same sex attraction disorder you are a homophobe.  I guess they would be called chistophobes.

     

    They were not the same and they will not be the same. Collins came out and said hes gay cool. Tebow came out and said he is a devot christian and this is who you should vote for or you are going to hell. That is not OKAY

     

    Please provide your source for tebows quote.  Why can't I refer to people who are closed minded to christian beliefs christophobes.

     

     

     

    To be fair.....  This is true!  The only religion that it is 'SAFE' to mock & denigrate, is Christianity.

    SADLY.....

    It's folks like Stiffy who bring this on with this type of hateful rhetoric.  Don't kid yourself!  His rhetoric is nothing short of hateful!!!!  You refuse to denounce it, and even parrot it???  67....  You reap what you sow!

     

     



    can only post about what has personally affected me. We are a country established with the principle of freedom of religion. I have not seen any jewish lobbies trying to outlaw pork, i have not seen any muslim lobbies (In america) trying to inforce woman wearing headscarfs. I have not seen buddhists try to force everyone to follow the path to nirvana

     

    I have seen Christian groups brainwash children in America (watch Biblecamp)

     

    I have seen Christian groups try to permanently ban homosexual marriage (see doma)

     

    I have seen Christian groups attempt to have religious dogma taught in school not simply as informational theology but to be taught as fact.

     

    I can only go by what i see that happens in this country. People are free to believe what they went to, but its when they try to enforce it upon me that I have a problem with.

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Jason Collins

    In response to 67redsox's comment:

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to 67redsox's comment:

     

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

     

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

     

    Took some guts for a pro athlete to come out while still an active player. But gladly attitudes have changed enough so that he will find plenty of support. I think his actions will help those who still live in fear of being ostracized and bullied for something that really has little bearing on an individual's character.

    You provide zero moral authority for your opinion. As for bullying and being ostracized, the reality is that anyone who states an opinion or tenet that same-sex sexual proclivity doesn't make same-sex sexual behavior moral is currently being bullied and ostracized "for something that has great bearing on an individual's character".

    It takes audacity to use "gay" and "coming out" when engaging in a narrative on sexual proclivity vs. sexual identity.

    I've never had anyone bandying "gay", define it, in the current context it's being chilishly used to dictate a narrative and advance a policital agenda on the issue of same-sex sexual proclivity, behavior and body politic licensed relationships.

    Those advancing the narrative do not want to discuss the issue on an intellectual level, much less a moral authority basis.

     



    I want to discuss the issue on an intellectual level.  Would love to.  

     

    Gay=homosexual. 

    Moral authority: the golden rule.

    Political agenda?  Political agendas, in a democratic society, are often (and should always be) born out of society's calls for change/justice.  We raise our voices with opposing views.  This is good.  This 'political agenda' is manifest because so many people, like myself, cry for justice, equality and love.  We see homosexuality as having no inherently negative power (in my personal view, it is a postive, natural and much-needed power in our world). 

     

     



    Natural?  What they do is contrary to nature.  A man and woman are a perfect "fit"  Not so a man and man or a woman and woman.  Nothing could be more un-natural.

     

    If you believe in God it's clear why same sex attraction disorder is not acceptable.  If you don't believe in God but believe in evolution this disorder is still un-natural.  Our bodies evolved into a perfect "fit" and to procreate. Those with same sex attraction disorder neither "fit" nor procreate so what they do is un-natural.

    There is no scientific evidence that people are born with this disorder.  It used to be considered a psycological disorder but was taken off the books for pc reasons.

    I know I will be called all sorts of names by the inclusive tollerant progressives for expressing my views.  I'm used to it so have at it ;0)

     



    There is no scientific evidence that people are born with this disorder.

     

    This is factually incorrect. People who are gay are, in fact, born that way. Its not a choice.

     



     

    There is no scientific proof.  Both sides have evidence to prove their points.  There is no conclusive scientific evidence that people are born gay.  What about bi-sexuals.  Are they born that way.



    Yes, they are. Do your homework! Sexuality is a spectrum with many people at the far ends of the curve, but with some in the middle. That is a medical fact. I would be happy to provide you with many medical references on the subject, but perhaps it would be easier for you to just ask yourself if you could "choose" to become gay.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Jason Collins

    In response to michaelsjr's comment:

    Collins praised for coming out as gay.  Tebow vilified for coming out as devout Christian.  Why the double standard?

     




    I've  heard several people say this.  Can you, or anybody else, provide examples of Tebow being villified for being a Christian?

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from 67redsox. Show 67redsox's posts

    Re: Jason Collins

    In response to RSF4Life234's comment:

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

     

    In response to 67redsox's comment:

     

    In response to RSF4Life234's comment:

    In response to 67redsox's comment:

    In response to michaelsjr's comment:

     

    Collins praised for coming out as gay.  Tebow vilified for coming out as devout Christian.  Why the double standard?

    Because if you speak against christians it's ok, if you speak against those with same sex attraction disorder you are a homophobe.  I guess they would be called chistophobes.

     

    They were not the same and they will not be the same. Collins came out and said hes gay cool. Tebow came out and said he is a devot christian and this is who you should vote for or you are going to hell. That is not OKAY

     

    Please provide your source for tebows quote.  Why can't I refer to people who are closed minded to christian beliefs christophobes.

     

     

     

    To be fair.....  This is true!  The only religion that it is 'SAFE' to mock & denigrate, is Christianity.

    SADLY.....

    It's folks like Stiffy who bring this on with this type of hateful rhetoric.  Don't kid yourself!  His rhetoric is nothing short of hateful!!!!  You refuse to denounce it, and even parrot it???  67....  You reap what you sow!

     

     

     



     

    can only post about what has personally affected me. We are a country established with the principle of freedom of religion. I have not seen any jewish lobbies trying to outlaw pork, i have not seen any muslim lobbies (In america) trying to inforce woman wearing headscarfs. I have not seen buddhists try to force everyone to follow the path to nirvana

     

    I have seen Christian groups brainwash children in America (watch Biblecamp)

     

    I have seen Christian groups try to permanently ban homosexual marriage (see doma)

     

    I have seen Christian groups attempt to have religious dogma taught in school not simply as informational theology but to be taught as fact.

     

    I can only go by what i see that happens in this country. People are free to believe what they went to, but its when they try to enforce it upon me that I have a problem with.

     



    So, this isn't about same sex attraction disorder at all.  You have a problem with christians, so you are a christophobe.  I understand now.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from 67redsox. Show 67redsox's posts

    Re: Jason Collins

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to 67redsox's comment:

     

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to 67redsox's comment:

     

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

     

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

     

    Took some guts for a pro athlete to come out while still an active player. But gladly attitudes have changed enough so that he will find plenty of support. I think his actions will help those who still live in fear of being ostracized and bullied for something that really has little bearing on an individual's character.

    You provide zero moral authority for your opinion. As for bullying and being ostracized, the reality is that anyone who states an opinion or tenet that same-sex sexual proclivity doesn't make same-sex sexual behavior moral is currently being bullied and ostracized "for something that has great bearing on an individual's character".

    It takes audacity to use "gay" and "coming out" when engaging in a narrative on sexual proclivity vs. sexual identity.

    I've never had anyone bandying "gay", define it, in the current context it's being chilishly used to dictate a narrative and advance a policital agenda on the issue of same-sex sexual proclivity, behavior and body politic licensed relationships.

    Those advancing the narrative do not want to discuss the issue on an intellectual level, much less a moral authority basis.

     



    I want to discuss the issue on an intellectual level.  Would love to.  

     

    Gay=homosexual. 

    Moral authority: the golden rule.

    Political agenda?  Political agendas, in a democratic society, are often (and should always be) born out of society's calls for change/justice.  We raise our voices with opposing views.  This is good.  This 'political agenda' is manifest because so many people, like myself, cry for justice, equality and love.  We see homosexuality as having no inherently negative power (in my personal view, it is a postive, natural and much-needed power in our world). 

     

     



    Natural?  What they do is contrary to nature.  A man and woman are a perfect "fit"  Not so a man and man or a woman and woman.  Nothing could be more un-natural.

     

    If you believe in God it's clear why same sex attraction disorder is not acceptable.  If you don't believe in God but believe in evolution this disorder is still un-natural.  Our bodies evolved into a perfect "fit" and to procreate. Those with same sex attraction disorder neither "fit" nor procreate so what they do is un-natural.

    There is no scientific evidence that people are born with this disorder.  It used to be considered a psycological disorder but was taken off the books for pc reasons.

    I know I will be called all sorts of names by the inclusive tollerant progressives for expressing my views.  I'm used to it so have at it ;0)

     



    There is no scientific evidence that people are born with this disorder.

     

    This is factually incorrect. People who are gay are, in fact, born that way. Its not a choice.

     



     

    There is no scientific proof.  Both sides have evidence to prove their points.  There is no conclusive scientific evidence that people are born gay.  What about bi-sexuals.  Are they born that way.

     



    Yes, they are. Do your homework! Sexuality is a spectrum with many people at the far ends of the curve, but with some in the middle. That is a medical fact. I would be happy to provide you with many medical references on the subject, but perhaps it would be easier for you to just ask yourself if you could "choose" to become gay.

     

     


    As I have already stated, both sides provide "proof" to back their stance but there is no deffinitive proof that same sex attraction disorder is genetic.  You can provide your studies and I can provide studies to support my argument.  Believe me, I have been down this road before.  You are not stating medical facts. Simply by saying something does not make it true.

     

    Do people choose pedophilia, do they choose to be harden criminals, do they choose to rape.  Your argument is not solid.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Jason Collins

    In response to 67redsox's comment:

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to 67redsox's comment:

     

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to 67redsox's comment:

     

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

     

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

     

    Took some guts for a pro athlete to come out while still an active player. But gladly attitudes have changed enough so that he will find plenty of support. I think his actions will help those who still live in fear of being ostracized and bullied for something that really has little bearing on an individual's character.

    You provide zero moral authority for your opinion. As for bullying and being ostracized, the reality is that anyone who states an opinion or tenet that same-sex sexual proclivity doesn't make same-sex sexual behavior moral is currently being bullied and ostracized "for something that has great bearing on an individual's character".

    It takes audacity to use "gay" and "coming out" when engaging in a narrative on sexual proclivity vs. sexual identity.

    I've never had anyone bandying "gay", define it, in the current context it's being chilishly used to dictate a narrative and advance a policital agenda on the issue of same-sex sexual proclivity, behavior and body politic licensed relationships.

    Those advancing the narrative do not want to discuss the issue on an intellectual level, much less a moral authority basis.

     



    I want to discuss the issue on an intellectual level.  Would love to.  

     

    Gay=homosexual. 

    Moral authority: the golden rule.

    Political agenda?  Political agendas, in a democratic society, are often (and should always be) born out of society's calls for change/justice.  We raise our voices with opposing views.  This is good.  This 'political agenda' is manifest because so many people, like myself, cry for justice, equality and love.  We see homosexuality as having no inherently negative power (in my personal view, it is a postive, natural and much-needed power in our world). 

     

     



    Natural?  What they do is contrary to nature.  A man and woman are a perfect "fit"  Not so a man and man or a woman and woman.  Nothing could be more un-natural.

     

    If you believe in God it's clear why same sex attraction disorder is not acceptable.  If you don't believe in God but believe in evolution this disorder is still un-natural.  Our bodies evolved into a perfect "fit" and to procreate. Those with same sex attraction disorder neither "fit" nor procreate so what they do is un-natural.

    There is no scientific evidence that people are born with this disorder.  It used to be considered a psycological disorder but was taken off the books for pc reasons.

    I know I will be called all sorts of names by the inclusive tollerant progressives for expressing my views.  I'm used to it so have at it ;0)

     



    There is no scientific evidence that people are born with this disorder.

     

    This is factually incorrect. People who are gay are, in fact, born that way. Its not a choice.

     



     

    There is no scientific proof.  Both sides have evidence to prove their points.  There is no conclusive scientific evidence that people are born gay.  What about bi-sexuals.  Are they born that way.

     



    Yes, they are. Do your homework! Sexuality is a spectrum with many people at the far ends of the curve, but with some in the middle. That is a medical fact. I would be happy to provide you with many medical references on the subject, but perhaps it would be easier for you to just ask yourself if you could "choose" to become gay.

     

     


    As I have already stated, both sides provide "proof" to back their stance but there is no deffinitive proof that same sex attraction disorder is genetic.  You can provide your studies and I can provide studies to support my argument.  Believe me, I have been down this road before.  You are not stating medical facts. Simply by saying somethind does not make it true.

    Do people choose pedophilia, do they choose to be harden criminals, do they choose to rape.  Your argument is not solid.




     

    and out steps the REAL 67......  Welcome back with that new civil tone.  You are a sweatheart!

    I'm sure you had no intention of linking these sick and twisted CRIMES with homosexuality.  I wondered how long it would take you to get here.  You came close earlier, but walked it back.   Earlier, you started asking the questions.......  If gay marriage, then why not marrying ______________  or ___________.  We know you are chomping at the bit to 'flesh those blanks out for us.  Take it to the absurd, as you desperately want to do.  As you did last year.....   Go for it 67!  Show us that new civil tone.

    Stop dipping your toe in the water & just jump head first into stark raving bat _____  ________.

    We know that's where you live.

     
  24. This post has been removed.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Jason Collins

    In response to devildavid's comment:

    Took some guts for a pro athlete to come out while still an active player. But gladly attitudes have changed enough so that he will find plenty of support. I think his actions will help those who still live in fear of being ostracized and bullied for something that really has little bearing on an individual's character.  



    When Gareth Thomas, Welsh Rugby player, came out in 2009 he and most everyone was suprised by the high level of support he got.

    There are still way too many evil, creepy homophobes fascinated by others' sex lives, but all decent people simply don't care who other people sleep with.

    Doesn't make Collins any less brave, just that hopefully things will go easier for him than he imagined.

     

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