1. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Jays-Marlins Deal

    posted at 11/14/2012 1:32 AM EST

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    Yeah. That 's why they play the games. And we lost 93 of them this year.  Do you want more of the same ?  Toronto just made major improvements. We acquired a third string catcher.  You say we are looking for reasons to bash BC.  I think you are grasping for reasons to defend him.  BC just presided over the worst Red Sox team in years.  So far , it looks like it will only get worse in 2013 .  How is this acceptable to you ?  




    No, Im not looking for reasons to defend him. Im just being realistic and level headed waiting to see how this offseason plays out before I make any judgements or opinions.

    Bc didnt have any room to play last year. He was financially pinned down as the FO didnt want to exceed the luxury threshold. Thus, the moves that were made and the ones that werent this past year. he now has a the freedom to create the team. Ill wait to see what he does before i criticize his every move. Ross was a good move that could lead to other moves.



    Southpaw , I'm ready for bed , so this is my last post for tonight.  I agree that Ben was in a financial bind last year , and I want to give him time to improve the team.  Now , he presumably has some money to spend. Let's see what he does .  So far , I have seen nothing  that gives me any confidence that he can restore this team to prominence.  Time will tell. 

     

  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Jays-Marlins Deal

    posted at 11/14/2012 1:32 AM EST

    In response to 56redsox's comment:

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    Yeah. That 's why they play the games. And we lost 93 of them this year.  Do you want more of the same ?  Toronto just made major improvements. We acquired a third string catcher.  You say we are looking for reasons to bash BC.  I think you are grasping for reasons to defend him.  BC just presided over the worst Red Sox team in years.  So far , it looks like it will only get worse in 2013 .  How is this acceptable to you ?  



    Relax Its Early, BC Will Pull A Rabbit Outah His Azz, Im Not Impressed With What The Jays Did...




    Me either. Its a win now move that sacrificed their future.

    1 year of oft injured JJ

    5/96 for Reyes

    3/48 left for Burhle on the downside of his career

    They improved no doubt.if they dont win it all the next year or 2, it will be all for none and will now have an empty farm system.

    To suggest that BC makes a reactionary move to counter this is not smart. he needs to stick with the plan he and his guys have made.

     

  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Jays-Marlins Deal

    posted at 11/14/2012 1:47 AM EST

    In response to jasko2248's comment:

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    Yeah. That 's why they play the games. And we lost 93 of them this year.  Do you want more of the same ?  Toronto just made major improvements. We acquired a third string catcher.  You say we are looking for reasons to bash BC.  I think you are grasping for reasons to defend him.  BC just presided over the worst Red Sox team in years.  So far , it looks like it will only get worse in 2013 .  How is this acceptable to you ?  




    Did you watch this team at all last year, Denny?  The Sox set an injury RECORD, they had a manager who the players lost respect for in Fort Myers, and coincidentally, some of the better players who WEREN'T injured, suffered through the worst seasons of their career.

     If you know who Denny Galehouse is, then you are either old, bitter and happy again to be able to whine after this Front Office started screwing things up with World Championships and playoff appearances, or you just won't allow yourself to look at the big picture anymore.  Which is it?



    Yeah Jasko , you are right. Us old timers have been spoiled by two championships in ninety four years.  We just can't see the " big picture ."   We must be more patient. Last year was just bad luck and Valentine's fault.  Ben did a fine job.  Things are looking much better now.  Thank you. 

     

  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Jays-Marlins Deal

    posted at 11/14/2012 1:49 AM EST

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    Yeah. That 's why they play the games. And we lost 93 of them this year.  Do you want more of the same ?  Toronto just made major improvements. We acquired a third string catcher.  You say we are looking for reasons to bash BC.  I think you are grasping for reasons to defend him.  BC just presided over the worst Red Sox team in years.  So far , it looks like it will only get worse in 2013 .  How is this acceptable to you ?  




    No, Im not looking for reasons to defend him. Im just being realistic and level headed waiting to see how this offseason plays out before I make any judgements or opinions.

    Bc didnt have any room to play last year. He was financially pinned down as the FO didnt want to exceed the luxury threshold. Thus, the moves that were made and the ones that werent this past year. he now has a the freedom to create the team. Ill wait to see what he does before i criticize his every move. Ross was a good move that could lead to other moves.



    Southpaw , I'm ready for bed , so this is my last post for tonight.  I agree that Ben was in a financial bind last year , and I want to give him time to improve the team.  Now , he presumably has some money to spend. Let's see what he does .  So far , I have seen nothing  that gives me any confidence that he can restore this team to prominence.  Time will tell. 




    Agree. thats all Im saying. Time will tell. Its all good...Goodnight Denny.

     

  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Jays-Marlins Deal

    posted at 11/14/2012 1:55 AM EST

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    In response to jasko2248's comment:

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    Yeah. That 's why they play the games. And we lost 93 of them this year.  Do you want more of the same ?  Toronto just made major improvements. We acquired a third string catcher.  You say we are looking for reasons to bash BC.  I think you are grasping for reasons to defend him.  BC just presided over the worst Red Sox team in years.  So far , it looks like it will only get worse in 2013 .  How is this acceptable to you ?  




    Did you watch this team at all last year, Denny?  The Sox set an injury RECORD, they had a manager who the players lost respect for in Fort Myers, and coincidentally, some of the better players who WEREN'T injured, suffered through the worst seasons of their career.

     If you know who Denny Galehouse is, then you are either old, bitter and happy again to be able to whine after this Front Office started screwing things up with World Championships and playoff appearances, or you just won't allow yourself to look at the big picture anymore.  Which is it?



    Yeah Jasko , you are right. Us old timers have been spoiled by two championships in ninety four years.  We just can't see the " big picture ."   We must be more patient. Last year was just bad luck and Valentine's fault.  Ben did a fine job.  Things are looking much better now.  Thank you. 


    Good night, Denny...No harm, no foul...not trying to be a jerk, but it's been two Championships in 14 years since Ben has been here, and no championships in the previous 80 years before he arrived.  I'm not saying Ben is a great GM, or not, but like most billion dollar corporations, lots of people have significant imput with big decisions.  He's a bright guy, let's give him a chance, and be happy he wasn't "green" enough to pull the trigger on a deal similar to what the Jays just did...

     

  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Jays-Marlins Deal

    posted at 11/14/2012 2:09 AM EST

    In response to jasko2248's comment:

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    In response to jasko2248's comment:

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    Yeah. That 's why they play the games. And we lost 93 of them this year.  Do you want more of the same ?  Toronto just made major improvements. We acquired a third string catcher.  You say we are looking for reasons to bash BC.  I think you are grasping for reasons to defend him.  BC just presided over the worst Red Sox team in years.  So far , it looks like it will only get worse in 2013 .  How is this acceptable to you ?  




    Did you watch this team at all last year, Denny?  The Sox set an injury RECORD, they had a manager who the players lost respect for in Fort Myers, and coincidentally, some of the better players who WEREN'T injured, suffered through the worst seasons of their career.

     If you know who Denny Galehouse is, then you are either old, bitter and happy again to be able to whine after this Front Office started screwing things up with World Championships and playoff appearances, or you just won't allow yourself to look at the big picture anymore.  Which is it?



    Yeah Jasko , you are right. Us old timers have been spoiled by two championships in ninety four years.  We just can't see the " big picture ."   We must be more patient. Last year was just bad luck and Valentine's fault.  Ben did a fine job.  Things are looking much better now.  Thank you. 


    Good night, Denny...No harm, no foul...not trying to be a jerk, but it's been two Championships in 14 years since Ben has been here, and no championships in the previous 80 years before he arrived.  I'm not saying Ben is a great GM, or not, but like most billion dollar corporations, lots of people have significant imput with big decisions.  He's a bright guy, let's give him a chance, and be happy he wasn't "green" enough to pull the trigger on a deal similar to what the Jays just did...




    Thats all Im doing jasko. Waiting to see what BC will do with a little flexibility financially. He may not do much of anything, or he may. I think Ross was a solid move that could lead to another. Bottom line is Ill stay level headed and not get too high or low with every move. One move could be made in order to pull off another. Once the offseason is complete and we see what the team looks like in ST, maybe then ill form my opinion as to how I think BC and Co. did taking all circumstances into consideration.

     

  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Jays-Marlins Deal

    posted at 11/14/2012 7:06 AM EST

    "Thats why I compared them. same skill set, although different positions. 2 players paid north of 20M per that have injury histories"..

    Not sure I agree, there's a significant difference in the signings of both Crawford & Reyes to long term deals. Reyes has and had a history of chronic hamstring problems. Crawford's woes began after signing with injuries that no one could have diagnosed. I won't arue that either of them are worth northof 20M. Fact is that Crawford was healthy and entering his prime when we signed him. That he struggled to produce and then ultimately got injured only asserbated the preception of his not being worthy...

     

  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: Jays-Marlins Deal

    posted at 11/14/2012 8:06 AM EST

     

    Toronto has not made this big of a deal since trading Tony Fernandez and Fred McGriff to San Diego for Roberto Alomar and Joe Carter in the winter of 1990.  

    Toronto has not made the playoffs since 1993.  

    A great move for the Blue Jays organization and its fans.  

     

     

  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from garyhow. Show garyhow's posts

    Re: Jays-Marlins Deal

    posted at 11/14/2012 8:08 AM EST

    This is what got Red Sox in trouble in 1st place. Trading away future for the now. It hardly ever works out well. Look 2009 Yanks might be considered only team that bought a WS title in past 15 yrs [remember even Dodgers had higher payroll than Yanks in 2001] CC / Tex / Burnett played big parts in WS title, but lets not forget they still had homegrown talent Jeter/Pettite/Mo/ Cano/etc.. RS fans quickly forget how Agon trade & Crawford signing brought RS all their championships? While Jays might be improved don't see WS title next yr. playoffs maybe but remember what people thought about 11 RS team [best in baseball] after their moves.

    Hopefully Ben stays the course. He has a farm system loaded w/ talent. I'm not saying can't make the right signing/trade to help the cause. 04 / 07 RS would not have won w/out Manny/Damon/ or Schilling acquisitions. But trading farm away only stunts the future. If Cole Hammels or Matt Cain had made it to FA this year I would be the first one to say they would be a perfect signing for RS and would be all in. Its a huge need for this team as was CC for 09 Yanks. Unfortunately not alot of help in this yrs FA class.

    Look Jays take a big gamble and lose a big part of future in doing so. Buerhle getting up there in age, bad numbers vs. Yanks and RS. Josh Johnson did not look like same pitcher last yr maybe another yr after TJ surgery he becomes that same pitcher but no gaurentee. Reyes has always had trouble w/ his hamstrings going back to early days w/ Mets, how is he going to like playing on turf in Toronto see alot of DL time here. Buck is a very servicable catcher and think he will help. But anyone who thinks Jays just won WS w/ this trade, they can put the trophy right next to RS 2011 trophy.

     

  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Jays-Marlins Deal

    posted at 11/14/2012 8:41 AM EST

    If the Sox signed Hamitlon for $150mill tomorrow, would that tip the scales back a bit?

     

    Would folks complain they took on too much money?   Toronto took on a lot more than that, and got some equal health risks on board.   Except Buerhle.  The man is a freak....

     

  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Softlawes. Show Softlawes's posts

    Re: Jays-Marlins Deal

    posted at 11/14/2012 10:49 AM EST

    The Red Sox just went through de facto Chapter 11. The new budget will not be the old near quarter of a billion dollar year budget anytime soon. Henry is winding down from the worst four years of the economy since Jimmy Carter, and the worst is yet to come as a result of the currency printing press.

    Notin has been repeating, for quite sometime, that the Red Sox will be "in on the Hamilton sweepstakes". They won't be, and that's a good thing because he's not a value and fit at all, even assuming his substance abuse history and age survive his big FA contract years.

     

  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ArtWikle. Show ArtWikle's posts

    Re: Jays-Marlins Deal

    posted at 11/14/2012 11:11 AM EST

    It is time now for MLB and Bud Selig to take control over the Miami Marlins. The owner Loria does not have the Marlins good future in his eye sight as all he has is making money.

     

  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Jays-Marlins Deal

    posted at 11/14/2012 11:26 AM EST

    I wonder if all the kool-aid drinkers would be praising Ben had he made the deal with FL instead.

    I bet he would called a genius for acquiring such awesome talent.

     

  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: Jays-Marlins Deal

    posted at 11/14/2012 11:29 AM EST

     

    The Marlins are now stuck with a new stadium and a team that dumped almost all of their talent.  

     

     

  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: Jays-Marlins Deal

    posted at 11/14/2012 11:29 AM EST

    In response to Alibiike's comment:

    I wonder if all the kool-aid drinkers would be praising Ben had he made the deal with FL instead.

    I bet he would called a genius for acquiring such awesome talent.



    Nope, I 'd be pissed.


    They'd have wasted the flexibility they acquired  in August on Buerhle and Reyes.

     

  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: Jays-Marlins Deal

    posted at 11/14/2012 11:33 AM EST

    In response to notin's comment:

    If the Sox signed Hamitlon for $150mill tomorrow, would that tip the scales back a bit?

     

    Would folks complain they took on too much money?   Toronto took on a lot more than that, and got some equal health risks on board.   Except Buerhle.  The man is a freak....



    Baltimore might sign Hamilton.  If so, then the AL East will be more competitive than the ivy league schools.  LOL

     

  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from mrmojo1120. Show mrmojo1120's posts

    Re: Jays-Marlins Deal

    posted at 11/14/2012 12:24 PM EST

    BUMP

     

  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Jays-Marlins Deal

    posted at 11/14/2012 6:11 PM EST

    In response to notin's comment:

    As usual, the assumption is that the prospects on other teams are worthless and only the Sox have any.

     

    The Jays gave up their BA #2, #5 and #8 in this deal.  The Sox equivalent prospects are Bradley, Owens and Brentz.   This of course operates on the assumption that the Jays farm system is equal to Boston's.  The Jays were significantly better last year, but I will assume it evened out somewhat and the prospect packages will be equal if Cecchini (whom many Sox fans prefer to deal anyway) replaces Brentz.  If Toronto's system is still significantly better than Boston's. then my equivalent offer is very light.

     

    Throw in Doubront and Mickey Pena to offset Alvarez and Desclafini. And Saltalamacchia and Sweeney as the equals of Escobar and Mathis.

     

    So the Sox to equal - not better, equal - the Jays offer, we have to give up Bradley, Owens, Cecchini, Doubront, Pena, Saltalamacchia and Sweeney.  While I am sure the last two are not deal breakers, who would give up the rest of that package for:

     

    1 year of Josh Johnson owed $13.75mill and the key to the deal

    3 years of Mark Buerhle still owed $48mill, and over 2,600 IP since 2001

    5 years of Jose Reyes, still owed $96mill

    1 year of John Buck, owed $6mill

    3 arbitration eligible years of Emilio Bonaficio, estimated to be about $10mill total?

     

    The biggest thing n Toronto's favor should be Josh Johnson's willingness to sign an extension, since staying on the field is not his greatest strength.  If he is gone after one year, however, that is alot to give up for Reyes and whatever Buerhle has left, and a glorified utility infielder.  Buerhle has been remarkably durable, but something has to give at some point.

      



    I agree the key could be Johnson and whether or not he can stay healthy, produce, or wants to re-sign with Toronto.  This deal isn't a bad one for the Marlins, nor a great one for the Jays.  I don't see it giving the Jays any huge advantage in our division. 

    Johnson is about to get a serious taste of the AL East and AL in general so I wouldn't count on him being a difference maker.

     

  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Jays-Marlins Deal

    posted at 11/15/2012 1:22 AM EST

    In response to Alibiike's comment:

    I wonder if all the kool-aid drinkers would be praising Ben had he made the deal with FL instead.

    I bet he would called a genius for acquiring such awesome talent.




    have you been reading comments on this forum? Most here, including myself, were very happy that BC didnt pull the trigger on this deal...

     

  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Jays-Marlins Deal

    posted at 11/15/2012 3:31 AM EST

    In response to Alibiike's comment:

    I wonder if all the kool-aid drinkers would be praising Ben had he made the deal with FL instead.

    I bet he would called a genius for acquiring such awesome talent.




    Why are all the west coast guys always saying the same things about pollyannas and kool-aid drinkers, no matter who is on the team and/or who is in charge. You've also said you're a LA fan. What's up with that? How can you complain no matter what the circumstances, and what bodies are involved? And why are you all so invested in making everyone feel the same by insulting people?

    If you were just a Sox fan, you would have your opinion and that would be it. You wouldn't be so concerned that other posters aren't on your hate bandwagon. That really seems to be the main theme with a few of the posters here. "Why aren't you angry? You should be upset about this! Get upset!"

     

  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Jays-Marlins Deal

    posted at 11/15/2012 6:56 AM EST

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:

    In response to Alibiike's comment:

    I wonder if all the kool-aid drinkers would be praising Ben had he made the deal with FL instead.

    I bet he would called a genius for acquiring such awesome talent.




    Why are all the west coast guys always saying the same things about pollyannas and kool-aid drinkers, no matter who is on the team and/or who is in charge. You've also said you're a LA fan. What's up with that? How can you complain no matter what the circumstances, and what bodies are involved? And why are you all so invested in making everyone feel the same by insulting people?

    If you were just a Sox fan, you would have your opinion and that would be it. You wouldn't be so concerned that other posters aren't on your hate bandwagon. That really seems to be the main theme with a few of the posters here. "Why aren't you angry? You should be upset about this! Get upset!"



    Some of the posters feel that the appropriate response to any RS move is to complain.

     

  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Jays-Marlins Deal

    posted at 11/16/2012 5:28 AM EST

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:

    In response to Alibiike's comment:

    I wonder if all the kool-aid drinkers would be praising Ben had he made the deal with FL instead.

    I bet he would called a genius for acquiring such awesome talent.




    Why are all the west coast guys always saying the same things about pollyannas and kool-aid drinkers, no matter who is on the team and/or who is in charge. You've also said you're a LA fan. What's up with that? How can you complain no matter what the circumstances, and what bodies are involved? And why are you all so invested in making everyone feel the same by insulting people?

    If you were just a Sox fan, you would have your opinion and that would be it. You wouldn't be so concerned that other posters aren't on your hate bandwagon. That really seems to be the main theme with a few of the posters here. "Why aren't you angry? You should be upset about this! Get upset!"



    Some of the posters feel that the appropriate response to any RS move is to complain.



    There's a merry band of complainers on the board all crying about Cherrington and the Sox, and trying to get Sox fans to join in. And they're the same ones who constantly complain no matter who's in charge. Considering they're all Dodgers' fans it is at least interesting why they care so much. Or maybe it's just one guy.

     

  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Jays-Marlins Deal

    posted at 11/16/2012 6:04 AM EST

    The deal: Is an all in move by a franchise that has now for too long been an after thought in the AL East.

    The Blue Jays: Have solidified thier rotation (if Johnson gives them a full season?) and with Reyes at the top of the order they added a high profile impact player. In order for this deal to make sense they have to compete "Now" and that success then needs to be sustained...meaning that the teams payroll will have to begin to creep north of 150M

    The Marlins: the jokes on Bud and the taxpayers of South Florida,,,if this trade doesn't force him to rid the game of Loria nothing will. Least of which IMHO he should IMHO impose a tax on the Marlins organization and take away the welfare check (otherwise known as revenue sharing) written by the big market clubs and use that money to help pay down the taxpayer debt on the interest acrued on the bonds...for the next 5 years a sum totaling over 150M. What a farce!

     

     

  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: Jays-Marlins Deal

    posted at 11/16/2012 6:24 AM EST

    In response to Alibiike's comment:

    I wonder if all the kool-aid drinkers would be praising Ben had he made the deal with FL instead.

    I bet he would called a genius for acquiring such awesome talent.



    No, my response would be that the GM would have had very thought out reasons for making every decision, many of which I may not fully understand from my limited vantage point.  No matter what the decision, I would support and root for any acquired player going forward and hope for the best because they're wearing a Red Sox uniform.    

     

  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: Jays-Marlins Deal

    posted at 11/16/2012 7:52 AM EST

     

    I remember going to Skydome in 1991, 1992 and 1993 and at least 40,000 fans would show up.  The stadium was packed with fans wearing Blue.

    I went to a Red Sox vs. Blue Jays game in 2011 in Toronto and only around 18,000 fans showed up.  Parking and buying a ticket was as easy as ordering a cup of coffee at Dunkin Donuts.   

    My late father was a Blue Jays fan and he was excited to take a picture with Paul Molitor and Roberto Alomar.  Back in the day, free agents WANTED to go to Toronto.  Just ask Dave Winfield, Jack Morris, and even Dave Stewart.  

    Blue Jays fans deserve to see their team shine once again and I believe they will see their team do well and probably make the playoffs in 2013.