JBJ described as a defensive upgrade over Jacoby

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from steven11. Show steven11's posts

    JBJ described as a defensive upgrade over Jacoby

    http://pawsoxblog.mlblogs.com/2014/01/22/prospects-continue-to-show-up-in-top-10-lists/

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from steven11. Show steven11's posts

    Re: JBJ described as a defensive upgrade over Jacoby

    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/mlb/mlbcoms-prospect-watch-mlbcoms-top-10-third-basemen?ymd=20140121&content_id=66834636

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from charliedarling. Show charliedarling's posts

    Re: JBJ described as a defensive upgrade over Jacoby

    I would agree that Bradley is going to be large defensive upgrade over Ellsbury in center field.

    To start with, Bradley can throw much, much better.  Ellsbury has a pop gun arm and has (and will) give up lots of extra bases because of his weak arm.  There must be some stat somewhere that would show us just how many bases he gave up to runners going from first to third and from second to home.

    Bradley will give up some of these bases as well, but not at the rate that Ellsbury did.  Lots of guys even tagged and moved up bases on Ellsbury's arm even when he was not deep to catch the fly ball.  EVERY runner scored from third on a fly ball to Ellsbury as well.

    Bradley will catch many balls that elluded Ellsbury because he is going to take better paths to where the ball will come down.  I doubt that you will see him having to change direction often when chasing down a ball like Ellsbury did for many seasons (although not so much last year).

    Bradley may not get to some balls that Ellsbury did, however, because he does not have the same blazing speed, but in the end will be a better overall defender than Ellsbury was for the Red Sox.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from jpBsSoxFan. Show jpBsSoxFan's posts

    Re: JBJ described as a defensive upgrade over Jacoby


    He might be a little bit better defensively but he is nowhere near the hitter that Ells is. The kid can't hit to save his life. Sox will miss those leadoff hits Ells provided for them.

     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: JBJ described as a defensive upgrade over Jacoby

    Jacoby WHO ???   Red Sox nation will like Jackie Bradley right out of the get-go !!

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: JBJ described as a defensive upgrade over Jacoby

    In response to jpBsSoxFan's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    He might be a little bit better defensively but he is nowhere near the hitter that Ells is. The kid can't hit to save his life. Sox will miss those leadoff hits Ells provided for them.

    [/QUOTE]

    I think it is a bit premature to say he cant hit to save his life based off a couple cups o coffee.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: JBJ described as a defensive upgrade over Jacoby

    In response to SpacemanEephus's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to jpBsSoxFan's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    He might be a little bit better defensively but he is nowhere near the hitter that Ells is. The kid can't hit to save his life. Sox will miss those leadoff hits Ells provided for them.

    [/QUOTE]

    I think it is a bit premature to say he cant hit to save his life based off a couple cups o coffee.

    [/QUOTE]


     

    It's amazing how many people have come to this conclusion based on Bradley's 107 PA's in 2013 (which were broken up over several different call-ups).

    His .297/.404/.471 line in the minor leagues certainly doesn't indicate someone who "can't hit to save his life."

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: JBJ described as a defensive upgrade over Jacoby

    I actually think JBJ will be a polarizing figure here in Boston.  First of all, there will always be a certain percentage of the fan base who expects the team to have an above average player at every position, and will compare JBJ to Ellsbury's production.  Ellsbury was one of the better hitters in the league let alone CFer's.

    JBJ is also going to be the kind of player that does all the little things that don't show up on the stat-sheet.  He's the guy who sees the outfielder mis play a ball so he stretches a single into a double, the guy who works 12-13 pitch at bats etc etc. He won't excel anywhere but he will do everything decently and his defense will be his true plus plus tool.

    To me...that is a very good player who can start on a first division team.  But there will be those who expect so much more out of him and never appreciate those things.  Oh well.....*I'm already a JBJ fan and I think he is going to be a great player. 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: JBJ described as a defensive upgrade over Jacoby

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    I actually think JBJ will be a polarizing figure here in Boston.  First of all, there will always be a certain percentage of the fan base who expects the team to have an above average player at every position, and will compare JBJ to Ellsbury's production.  Ellsbury was one of the better hitters in the league let alone CFer's.

    JBJ is also going to be the kind of player that does all the little things that don't show up on the stat-sheet.  He's the guy who sees the outfielder mis play a ball so he stretches a single into a double, the guy who works 12-13 pitch at bats etc etc. He won't excel anywhere but he will do everything decently and his defense will be his true plus plus tool.

    To me...that is a very good player who can start on a first division team.  But there will be those who expect so much more out of him and never appreciate those things.  Oh well.....*I'm already a JBJ fan and I think he is going to be a great player. 




    I think there's definitely something to this. Judging by a lot of comments this winter, some people seem to be demanding that he be a 1:1 replacement for Ellsbury next year -- either he replicates Ellsbury's production immediately (which he's not going to), or he's a bust. (I've even seen some people intimating that we need Bradley to replace Ellsbury's 50+ steals ...umm, what?)

    Not only is that terribly unfair to Bradley, but it's going to keep some people from being able to enjoy watching a kid who I think will be a very good all-around player in his own right.

     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: JBJ described as a defensive upgrade over Jacoby

    In response to charliedarling's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I would agree that Bradley is going to be large defensive upgrade over Ellsbury in center field.

    To start with, Bradley can throw much, much better.  Ellsbury has a pop gun arm and has (and will) give up lots of extra bases because of his weak arm.  There must be some stat somewhere that would show us just how many bases he gave up to runners going from first to third and from second to home.

    Bradley will give up some of these bases as well, but not at the rate that Ellsbury did.  Lots of guys even tagged and moved up bases on Ellsbury's arm even when he was not deep to catch the fly ball.  EVERY runner scored from third on a fly ball to Ellsbury as well.

    Bradley will catch many balls that elluded Ellsbury because he is going to take better paths to where the ball will come down.  I doubt that you will see him having to change direction often when chasing down a ball like Ellsbury did for many seasons (although not so much last year).

    Bradley may not get to some balls that Ellsbury did, however, because he does not have the same blazing speed, but in the end will be a better overall defender than Ellsbury was for the Red Sox.

    [/QUOTE]

    It's hard to be a "large upgrade" when Ellsbury was really good.

    It may take a year or two to show he is much better.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: JBJ described as a defensive upgrade over Jacoby

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I actually think JBJ will be a polarizing figure here in Boston.  First of all, there will always be a certain percentage of the fan base who expects the team to have an above average player at every position, and will compare JBJ to Ellsbury's production.  Ellsbury was one of the better hitters in the league let alone CFer's.

    JBJ is also going to be the kind of player that does all the little things that don't show up on the stat-sheet.  He's the guy who sees the outfielder mis play a ball so he stretches a single into a double, the guy who works 12-13 pitch at bats etc etc. He won't excel anywhere but he will do everything decently and his defense will be his true plus plus tool.

    To me...that is a very good player who can start on a first division team.  But there will be those who expect so much more out of him and never appreciate those things.  Oh well.....*I'm already a JBJ fan and I think he is going to be a great player. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Not too mention he is black ... and you know how Boston is ...

     

     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: JBJ described as a defensive upgrade over Jacoby

    Almost every scouting report mentions JBJs "great baseball instincts" and/or "getting great reads" on balls hit his way.

    Ellsbury did have some issues with late breaks and poor routes to balls, especially earlier in his career, but he did improve.

    JBJ's arm is certainly better than Jacoby's- who had one of the leagues worst.

    I'm thinking JBJ could be a slight upgrade over Ellsbury on defense right now, but maybe over a couple years, he could be significantly better.

    The hitting and baserunning speed is what JBJ will always be compared to mostly. He is not Jacoby, and I think he will help us in ways some might not notice. We need to cut him some slack, and allow for a learning curve. 

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from jidgef. Show jidgef's posts

    Re: JBJ described as a defensive upgrade over Jacoby

    In the inevitable Bradley/Ellsbury comparisons, Bradley should win on the defensive side by a slight margin, especially with his stronger arm. Ells should win the offensive comparisons, at least for the next year or two. But Bradley will improve and could overtake Ells in the on base category much sooner. But the most significant aspect of the comparison will be in value, both now and in a few years from now. And Bradley will easily trump Ellsbury in cost/reward value as early as this season. I think this switch was a foregone conclusion in the offices on Yawkey Way and the Yankees, with their ridiculous contract offer, made selling the transition much easier for the RS front office. Ells will be missed by fans but Bradley's value will take much of the sting out of the loss in the minds of the guys writing the checks.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: JBJ described as a defensive upgrade over Jacoby

    In response to jidgef's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In the inevitable Bradley/Ellsbury comparisons, Bradley should win on the defensive side by a slight margin, especially with his stronger arm. Ells should win the offensive comparisons, at least for the next year or two. But Bradley will improve and could overtake Ells in the on base category much sooner. But the most significant aspect of the comparison will be in value, both now and in a few years from now. And Bradley will easily trump Ellsbury in cost/reward value as early as this season. I think this switch was a foregone conclusion in the offices on Yawkey Way and the Yankees, with their ridiculous contract offer, made selling the transition much easier for the RS front office. Ells will be missed by fans but Bradley's value will take much of the sting out of the loss in the minds of the guys writing the checks.

    [/QUOTE]

    Well said.

    I agree on the OBP especially. He could pass jacoby very soon in that one important category.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: JBJ described as a defensive upgrade over Jacoby

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    I actually think JBJ will be a polarizing figure here in Boston.  First of all, there will always be a certain percentage of the fan base who expects the team to have an above average player at every position, and will compare JBJ to Ellsbury's production.  Ellsbury was one of the better hitters in the league let alone CFer's.

    JBJ is also going to be the kind of player that does all the little things that don't show up on the stat-sheet.  He's the guy who sees the outfielder mis play a ball so he stretches a single into a double, the guy who works 12-13 pitch at bats etc etc. He won't excel anywhere but he will do everything decently and his defense will be his true plus plus tool.

    To me...that is a very good player who can start on a first division team.  But there will be those who expect so much more out of him and never appreciate those things.  Oh well.....*I'm already a JBJ fan and I think he is going to be a great player. 



    Really?  We sure didn't see too many 12 - 13 pitch at bats last year, & we won't see many for quite some time if he can't learn to pick up the breaking ball cutting inside & low from a major league pitcher.

    Seriously....  Some of you are reaching way too far.  I love the kid, but we better plan on being VERY PATIENT.  Could he come out hitting, with great plate discipline right from the get go?  Sure.  Is it likely.  No!  Will he likely struggle........  for god knows how long?  Probably.  

    Will he likely be a good mlb hitter?  I think so, but right now the mlb dust bins are littered with guys who were excellent hitters in the minors, but never could make the leap.  Do I think this happens with JBJ?  NO!  I think he'll do just fine, but it will VERY LIKELY take several years of rocky roads.

    As for the rediculous OP asserting that JBJ "is a defensive upgrade."  Ignorant!  Rediculous!  Reaching!  Hope against hope!  The kid has not proven a single thing yet, & looked out of place last year when called up in CF.  Ells, ASIDE FROM BEING ARMED WITH MY AUNTS ARM, is one of the best in the business!!!!  PERIOD!  His speed & field knowledge make up for a world of faults.  As far as him costing us extra bases??? Please!  It simply never happened.  Were there the rare occasions where a guy was able to go from 1st to third because of his WEAK SISTER arm?  Yep!  Sorry, it was negligible at best.  The rest of his defensive game was top of the league.

    To even think about putting a completely unproven kid, who would be absolutely wet behind the ears if he had ever even seen the water, above Ells, is beyond absurd. WAY Beyond absurd!  

    Yes guys.  We're all going to miss Ells........   but, that's simply not a good enough reason to REACH & start the campaign to induct JBJ into the coming mlb Hall of Fame.  

    Let's hope the folks pushing for the premature HOF vote have patience when things get rocky.  I'm good with the kid knowing that it may not be pretty til year 2 or 3.

     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: JBJ described as a defensive upgrade over Jacoby

    Pete Abraham ‏@PeteAbe 21m

    In a mid-dinner interview with @DonOrsillo, Farrell + Cherington spoke positively about @JackieBradleyJr playing CF. #BostonBBWAAdinner

     
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: JBJ described as a defensive upgrade over Jacoby

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    I actually think JBJ will be a polarizing figure here in Boston.  First of all, there will always be a certain percentage of the fan base who expects the team to have an above average player at every position, and will compare JBJ to Ellsbury's production.  Ellsbury was one of the better hitters in the league let alone CFer's.

    JBJ is also going to be the kind of player that does all the little things that don't show up on the stat-sheet.  He's the guy who sees the outfielder mis play a ball so he stretches a single into a double, the guy who works 12-13 pitch at bats etc etc. He won't excel anywhere but he will do everything decently and his defense will be his true plus plus tool.

    To me...that is a very good player who can start on a first division team.  But there will be those who expect so much more out of him and never appreciate those things.  Oh well.....*I'm already a JBJ fan and I think he is going to be a great player. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Really?  We sure didn't see too many 12 - 13 pitch at bats last year, & we won't see many for quite some time if he can't learn to pick up the breaking ball cutting inside & low from a major league pitcher.

     

    Seriously....  Some of you are reaching way too far.  I love the kid, but we better plan on being VERY PATIENT.  Could he come out hitting, with great plate discipline right from the get go?  Sure.  Is it likely.  No!  Will he likely struggle........  for god knows how long?  Probably.  

    Will he likely be a good mlb hitter?  I think so, but right now the mlb dust bins are littered with guys who were excellent hitters in the minors, but never could make the leap.  Do I think this happens with JBJ?  NO!  I think he'll do just fine, but it will VERY LIKELY take several years of rocky roads.

    As for the rediculous OP asserting that JBJ "is a defensive upgrade."  Ignorant!  Rediculous!  Reaching!  Hope against hope!  The kid has not proven a single thing yet, & looked out of place last year when called up in CF.  Ells, ASIDE FROM BEING ARMED WITH MY AUNTS ARM, is one of the best in the business!!!!  PERIOD!  His speed & field knowledge make up for a world of faults.  As far as him costing us extra bases??? Please!  It simply never happened.  Were there the rare occasions where a guy was able to go from 1st to third because of his WEAK SISTER arm?  Yep!  Sorry, it was negligible at best.  The rest of his defensive game was top of the league.

    To even think about putting a completely unproven kid, who would be absolutely wet behind the ears if he had ever even seen the water, above Ells, is beyond absurd. WAY Beyond absurd!  

    Yes guys.  We're all going to miss Ells........   but, that's simply not a good enough reason to REACH & start the campaign to induct JBJ into the coming mlb Hall of Fame.  

    Let's hope the folks pushing for the premature HOF vote have patience when things get rocky.  I'm good with the kid knowing that it may not be pretty til year 2 or 3.

    [/QUOTE]

    I never said we wouldn't miss Ellsbury. He will be more than greatly missed.

    Nobody is inducting JBJ in the HOF. The kid is an excellent fielder. That's something that can be determined on the farm.

    I know many of you do not want believe that Ellsbury broke late on several balls hit in his direction and took bad route to balls. Yes, all fielders do from time to time, but some of us have the opinion that Jacoby did it more often than the norm and his speed made up for some of it, but not all. This in no way is a claim that Ellsbury's defense was substandard. In my opinion, he has been top 5-6 for the last couple years.

    I'm not slighting Ellsbury by thinking JBJ can be top 4-6 on defense this year.  My guess is JBj will never come close to the offenisve value of Ellsbury when he was healthy and playing, but if he can quickly get his OBP above Jacoby's and play 150+ games every year, his defense can make the loss of Jacoby a little less painful.

    There's also a significant chance JBj never comes close to making up for the huge loss of Ellsbury. I get that. I bet most here do.

    One could look at it this way: here is what Jacoby has done for us the last 4 years:

    384 games (1775 PAs) .297/.351/.438/.789 (112 2B+3B, 45 HRs & 112 SBs)

    What if JBj could give us this over the next 4 years?

    600 games (2400 PAs) .280/.360/.430/.790 (140 2b+3B, 50 Hrs & 40 sBs) plus slightly better fielding.

    I realize the loss of base speed and intimidation is significant, but when you factor in the contract cost comparative, and what we could do for with the differential to upgrade other positions, I think we can view the loss of Ellsbury and the cost it would have taken to keep him here as not as bad as it appears.

     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: JBJ described as a defensive upgrade over Jacoby

    Up grade on defense, down grade on offense.  In the 2013 postseason Ellsbury led mlb in runs and hits even though Ortiz was MVP.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: JBJ described as a defensive upgrade over Jacoby

    JBJ defense is considered ELITE.

    from MLB's best tools. 

     

    "Best defender: Jackie Bradley, OF, Red Sox

    Though his speed grades as solid at best, Bradley has an innate ability to read balls off the bat that allows him to chase down balls from gap to gap in center field. His defensive prowess helped spur South Carolina to consecutive College World Series championships in 2010-11, and it enabled him to make Boston's Opening Day roster last year at age 22. The Red Sox may miss Jacoby Ellsbury's bat this season, but Bradley will be a defensive upgrade over the $153 million free agent"

    And I'm basing what type of hitter I think he will be based on what he has done his entire pro career and his college days as well and not 100 at bats at the MLB level when he was obviously rushed. 

    So while everyone is rushing to judgement because of a small sample size.....everyone in the scouting community has JBJ ranked higher this year. 


    In other words the baseball world in the knows are fully aware that he was rushed and he did nothing to hurt....and actually helped his prospect status last year.

    JBJ is going to be a very good ballplayer. 

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: JBJ described as a defensive upgrade over Jacoby

    MLB.com gave him a 60 hit grade. Which means they think he will hit above average. 

    Soxprospets says he has plus bat speed with the potential to hit for above average.

    baseball america had this to say.

    "Scouting Report: While he showed improved pull power in 2013, Bradley does so at the expense of his plate discipline and line-to-line hitting approach. After being beaten by inside fastballs in his first big league callup, he showed signs during 2013 of making improvements to address that deficiency. Evaluators are convinced his aptitude, pitch recognition and strike-zone awareness will permit him to make the necessary adjustments. Though not a burner, Bradley’s finely-honed baseball instincts permit him to get great breaks while taking strong routes to the ball, resulting in outstanding defense in center field.

    The Future: Bradley is capable of being an everyday center fielder in 2014, one who will grow into an above-average player across the board, which suggests a future as an above-average regular. At worst, his defense suggests a floor of a valuable part-time outfielder."

     

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