JBJ described as a defensive upgrade over Jacoby

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from javaukti1. Show javaukti1's posts

    Re: JBJ described as a defensive upgrade over Jacoby

    In response to Bill-806's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Jacoby WHO ???   Red Sox nation will like Jackie Bradley right out of the get-go !!

    [/QUOTE]

    i agree. ellsbury who. he's gone. start from where we are. 

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: JBJ described as a defensive upgrade over Jacoby

    My two cents....If we remove Ellsbury from the argument and focus on how the Sox will replace the three components of his game that propelled him to earning 150M...defense in center field, leadoff hitter and base stealing ability. The reality is that Bradley Jr. will be asked to only fill one of three next year and that is playing CF. From all reports I've read the kid is a plus defender. So in my mind that is where the comparison ends. Based on the current roster Victorino will likely leadoff and while he's not the base stealer Ells is he'll still keep the opponents honest..So it is Victorino that will be asked to shoulder the load of replacing Ells at the top of the order and not young Bradley jr. 

    That's a fairer way to look at the issue, but it does go beyond that. As Victorino moves from the 2 slot to leadoff, who will bat #2? If it is Nava/Gomes, then who will bat 5th or 6th? If it is Pedey, then who bats 3rd, and on and on...

    There's no doubt losing Ellsbury will have rippling effects to our line-up, but we may be able to make up for Jacoby's loss by having other players step up. Pedey was about 50 points below his career OPS last year. Napoli has been known to have big years every 3 seasons (this is season 3). Gomes did not hit lefties anywhere near as well as he did in previous seasons. Bogey could have a ROY season, andor  Middy could hit like 2012 rather than 2013. Maybe several of these guys will have to just marginally step up their game to fill the void. They found a way last year, so I think they have the heart and soul needed to rise to the task, but good health is going to have to be on our side once again.

     

    What will be asked of Bradley Jr is that he plays solid defense in center and proves that he can compete at big league level, likely hitting 9th...since the kid has hit at every level and played above average defense at a premium defensive position. He's earned the opportunity to fill a need and get his chance to fulfill his lifetime dream of playing big league baseball. So begining the first day of camp when Bradley arrives it's his job to lose...I wish him success

    Yes, and I expect he may need a leaning curve on offense, but there is little reason to doubt the position that he should be able to come near his minor league numbers over time.

    90% of his minor league numbers over about 500 PAs would be:

    .268  10  55  (.365/.435/.800)

     

    For Farrel and Cherington cleary they both see him as possessing the tools to be an above average centerfielder or they would've already made a move to replace Ellsbury's roster spot. So it is incumbent on them to instill confidence in Bradley. Set clear goals in terms of what they want to see from him and then let the kid play. Worse case is Bradley hit below the Mendoza line and they then have to make a move to acquire another OF..best case is he's proves worthy and becomes and impact player who's under the teams control for 6 years playing for pennies on the dollar. Which then allows the organization the payroll flexibility to address positions of need that can't be filled by cost effective prospects to maintian their objective of being a championship level club, playing in the same division with the money rich Yankees of New York.

    This is a key point, that some here seemingly don't get. We can not match the Yanks and Dodgers by sytematically filling every hole or preceived hole with expensive FAs. We need to fill a few with homegrown and inexpensive talent. Our farm system has been rated highly in recent years, and it is time to start reaping the benefits, or at least finding out if some of these guys can cut the mustard.

     

    Make no mistake about it, Bradley Jr, Middlebrooks & Bogaerts are all keys to the future and thier individual successes will dictate what the club's needs are in the next 3 to 5 years. Because today only Pedrioa represents the profile of player one builds a roster around. Questions that we'll all have answers to by years end...

    I like our chances this year.

    Yes, we lost Ellsbury, Salty and probably Drew, but we also lost Hanrahan, Bailey, Aceves, Chiriaco, Mortensen and Morales- all players who had 2013 numbers that could easily be bested by more innings or PAs by Buch, Peavy, Mujica, Miller.

    AJP and a healthy Ross should greatly improve our catcher defense and staff-handling. They could amount to a net plus over last year's catching crew.

    Bogey instead of Drew gives a chance to improve on offense and hopefully not lose too much on D.

    Only the loss of Ellsbury looks significantly serious. I know these numbers carry little weight, but we did okay without Jacoby last year, so let's hope we can do it again over a long time.

    79-55 with Jacoby

    18-10 without Jacoby

    (Note: 28 games is a small sample size)

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from javaukti1. Show javaukti1's posts

    Re: JBJ described as a defensive upgrade over Jacoby

    In response to S5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    It's going to be interesting to see how the fans are going to react to a .265 down-in-the-order player who plays stellar defense. ...  We had a spirited discussion on this board during the middle of last season regarding how bad an offense we'd be willing to put up with to keep a GG defensive player. 

    IIRC the general consensus was that as long as that player could bat >~.240 he'd be an asset to the team,  but that's not what fans in Boston are accustomed to from their CF.  If the team continues to score runs without Ellsbury JBJ may get a pass, but if the offense struggles JBJ could get the blame for it.

     [/QUOTE]

    that discussion was all about Iglesias, i believe. It depends on the position.  1st & 3rd base, LF, you expect to get a lot of plate production. Defense can make up for a lot in middle of the field positions.



     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: JBJ described as a defensive upgrade over Jacoby

    That's a fairer way to look at the issue, but it does go beyond that. As Victorino moves from the 2 slot to leadoff, who will bat #2? If it is Nava/Gomes, then who will bat 5th or 6th? If it is Pedey, then who bats 3rd, and on and on...

    There's no doubt losing Ellsbury will have rippling effects to our line-up, but we may be able to make up for Jacoby's loss by having other players step up. Pedey was about 50 points below his career OPS last year. Napoli has been known to have big years every 3 seasons (this is season 3). Gomes did not hit lefties anywhere near as well as he did in previous seasons. Bogey could have a ROY season, andor  Middy could hit like 2012 rather than 2013. Maybe several of these guys will have to just marginally step up their game to fill the void. They found a way last year, so I think they have the heart and soul needed to rise to the task, but good health is going to have to be on our side once again.


    moon,

    I get the implications the loss of Ellsbury at the top of the order will have on our lineup. Cleary Ellsbury was among the best. I just think it's important not to fall into the trap of comparing Bradley Jr's role with the one that Ellsbury played. They play the same position...in fairness to Bradley that is where the comparison ends.

    What I will say is that having Victorino does take some of the angst and pressure off Farrel and is yet another example of the value Cherington placed on his aquisition...unlike when we lost Damon and tried to replace him with Crisp. Victorino understands and is comfortable hitting at the top of the order. Then if we assume that Pedrioa, Ortiz and Napoli hit 3-4-5....based on our current roster. I would assume that Nava or Bogaerts will hit 2nd or 6th with Pierzinski, Middlebrooks and Bradley at the bottom of the order. I'm not to worried about our ability to score, that and given the resources at hand if by June a fatal flaw presents itself or one of our key guys severely underproduce...Cherington has already demonstrated with the support of the ownership they'll make moves to bolster the roster...

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: JBJ described as a defensive upgrade over Jacoby

    In response to Beantowne's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    That's a fairer way to look at the issue, but it does go beyond that. As Victorino moves from the 2 slot to leadoff, who will bat #2? If it is Nava/Gomes, then who will bat 5th or 6th? If it is Pedey, then who bats 3rd, and on and on...

    There's no doubt losing Ellsbury will have rippling effects to our line-up, but we may be able to make up for Jacoby's loss by having other players step up. Pedey was about 50 points below his career OPS last year. Napoli has been known to have big years every 3 seasons (this is season 3). Gomes did not hit lefties anywhere near as well as he did in previous seasons. Bogey could have a ROY season, andor  Middy could hit like 2012 rather than 2013. Maybe several of these guys will have to just marginally step up their game to fill the void. They found a way last year, so I think they have the heart and soul needed to rise to the task, but good health is going to have to be on our side once again.


    moon,

    I get the implications the loss of Ellsbury at the top of the order will have on our lineup. Cleary Ellsbury was among the best. I just think it's important not to fall into the trap of comparing Bradley Jr's role with the one that Ellsbury played. They play the same position...in fairness to Bradley that is where the comparison ends.

    What I will say is that having Victorino does take some of the angst and pressure off Farrel and is yet another example of the value Cherington placed on his aquisition...unlike when we lost Damon and tried to replace him with Crisp. Victorino understands and is comfortable hitting at the top of the order. Then if we assume that Pedrioa, Ortiz and Napoli hit 3-4-5....based on our current roster. I would assume that Nava or Bogaerts will hit 2nd or 6th with Pierzinski, Middlebrooks and Bradley at the bottom of the order. I'm not to worried about our ability to score, that and given the resources at hand if by June a fatal flaw presents itself or one of our key guys severely underproduce...Cherington has already demonstrated with the support of the ownership they'll make moves to bolster the roster...

    [/QUOTE]

    I would prefer to see the Nava/Gomes platoon bat 2nd, so we can keep Pedey 3rd or 4th and Napoli 5th.

    I guess we can expect a drop off at the 6 slot once filled by Nava/Gomes. A rise from Middy or a big season by Bogey could erase that issue and actually give us a gain, but it is hard to project that.

    As I have said a few times this winter, I expect our offense to score pretty close to the same amount of runs in 2014 as 2013. I'm not overly concerned about our line-up, and as you pointed out, we can always make a mid-season move to fill any hole that manifests itself.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: JBJ described as a defensive upgrade over Jacoby

     

    JBJ described as a defensive upgrade over Jacoby

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: JBJ described as a defensive upgrade over Jacoby

    JBJ will be whatever his talent level allows him to be. Ben Cherrington didn't put all is eggs in one basket though, he went out and signed the guy who really was a Defensive gem in the Cf position before Ellsbury even took his first swings in Sizemore, Grady was the standard as far as the all around perfect CF'er, he hit for average, power and was an above average on on base guy, a plus outfielder on defense he was basically Ells before Ells. Grady was the 30/30 guy everyone looks for, the only thing sox fans can hope is that he has receovered from all the surgeries and injuries, because if he has then losing Ellsbury will be a wash. As for JBJ he has a limited window of opportunity because the Sox have some interesting guys waiting at the lower levels who will be looking for their s hot at the bigs. One guy really intrigues me and that is Forrest Allday.. Never know where or when a player will just bloom.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: JBJ described as a defensive upgrade over Jacoby

    In response to sportsbozo1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    JBJ will be whatever his talent level allows him to be. Ben Cherrington didn't put all is eggs in one basket though, he went out and signed the guy who really was a Defensive gem in the Cf position before Ellsbury even took his first swings in Sizemore, Grady was the standard as far as the all around perfect CF'er, he hit for average, power and was an above average on on base guy, a plus outfielder on defense he was basically Ells before Ells. Grady was the 30/30 guy everyone looks for, the only thing sox fans can hope is that he has receovered from all the surgeries and injuries, because if he has then losing Ellsbury will be a wash. As for JBJ he has a limited window of opportunity because the Sox have some interesting guys waiting at the lower levels who will be looking for their s hot at the bigs. One guy really intrigues me and that is Forrest Allday.. Never know where or when a player will just bloom.

    [/QUOTE]

    I get the sense from reading your post that you don't have much confidence in Bradley's ability? 

    Sizemore was a very good player, however it's been two years since he played in meaniful game. I like the signing, but frankly don't expect Him to be more than a quality back-up...

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: JBJ described as a defensive upgrade over Jacoby

    I get the sense from reading your post that you don't have much confidence in Bradley's ability? 

    Sizemore was a very good player, however it's been two years since he played in meaniful game. I like the signing, but frankly don't expect Him to be more than a quality back-up...

     

    I agree, and the outside chance that he might become 70-80% of what he once was makes the gamble worth it. He may only be a shell of what he once was. The injuries he has had makes it near certain he'll never be who he was from 2005-2008. We didn't sign him to be all that.

    He may end up being just a quality back-up. That's fine. If he gets cut before opening day, no biggie.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from wvwc61. Show wvwc61's posts

    Re: JBJ described as a defensive upgrade over Jacoby

    In response to steven11's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    http://pawsoxblog.mlblogs.com/2014/01/22/prospects-continue-to-show-up-in-top-10-lists/

    [/QUOTE]


    Yes, but he  can't hit over .170. He'll be back  in the minors or traded.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxDOrtiz. Show RedSoxDOrtiz's posts

    Re: JBJ described as a defensive upgrade over Jacoby

    In response to wvwc61's comment:

     

    In response to steven11's comment:

    http://pawsoxblog.mlblogs.com/2014/01/22/prospects-continue-to-show-up-in-top-10-lists/

     




     

    Yes, but he  can't hit over .170. He'll be back  in the minors or traded.



    The Sox stuck with Pedroia and the payoff was huge.  We should be getting used to seeing players develop by now.  I think the Sox give Bradley a couple months to hack it before giving more time to alternatives.  I like his development path... bring him up and have him work on his holes in the minors... come back and show improvement in areas he went down to work on.

    Those are the players that make it IMO... not worried at all to be honest.  Not worried about him or Xander... the difference is that Xander makes these changes on the fly in game.  Both players carry themselves as winners and have the right type of energy.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from steven11. Show steven11's posts

    Re: JBJ described as a defensive upgrade over Jacoby

    In response to wvwc61's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to steven11's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    http://pawsoxblog.mlblogs.com/2014/01/22/prospects-continue-to-show-up-in-top-10-lists/

    [/QUOTE]


    Yes, but he  can't hit over .170. He'll be back  in the minors or traded.

    [/QUOTE]


    I doubt it but time will tell.  He plays cf as well as anyone.  He has speed on the bases and gets a lot of respect from pitchers when on base.  The hitting will come, he has shown that he has potential with the bat.

     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: JBJ described as a defensive upgrade over Jacoby

    In response to wvwc61's comment:

    In response to steven11's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    http://pawsoxblog.mlblogs.com/2014/01/22/prospects-continue-to-show-up-in-top-10-lists/




    Yes, but he  can't hit over .170. He'll be back  in the minors or traded.

    [/QUOTE]

    He hit over .450 last year, in Spring Training, forcing the hand of the organization, to put him on the opening day roster. Give the kid a chance to develop and break into the big leagues

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: JBJ described as a defensive upgrade over Jacoby

    In response to RedSoxDOrtiz's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to wvwc61's comment:

     

    In response to steven11's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    http://pawsoxblog.mlblogs.com/2014/01/22/prospects-continue-to-show-up-in-top-10-lists/

     




     

    Yes, but he  can't hit over .170. He'll be back  in the minors or traded.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    The Sox stuck with Pedroia and the payoff was huge.  We should be getting used to seeing players develop by now.  I think the Sox give Bradley a couple months to hack it before giving more time to alternatives.  I like his development path... bring him up and have him work on his holes in the minors... come back and show improvement in areas he went down to work on.

     

    Those are the players that make it IMO... not worried at all to be honest.  Not worried about him or Xander... the difference is that Xander makes these changes on the fly in game.  Both players carry themselves as winners and have the right type of energy.

    [/QUOTE]

    To be honest, I'm worried.

    Taken individually, I like JBJ, I like Bogey, and I like Middy, but out of the 3, my guess is that one will not reach expectations in 2014. Maybe two.

    It's one reason I thought we should have signed a solid SS back-up. Maybe I'm misjudging Herrera, but when I look at our bench, I think our weakest 2 areas of depth are SS and CF. Yes, Victorino can play CF, but moving Nava to RF and forcing Gomes to play LF FT, seriously compromises our OF defense and platoon set-up.

    We may be fine, even if one of the 3 fail or struggle for a long period of time. I like our roster construction and think we have less big question marks than almost every other team. I think some tweeks may be our future, but I'm pretty confident in our chances.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: JBJ described as a defensive upgrade over Jacoby

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to RedSoxDOrtiz's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to wvwc61's comment:

     

    In response to steven11's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    http://pawsoxblog.mlblogs.com/2014/01/22/prospects-continue-to-show-up-in-top-10-lists/

     




     

    Yes, but he  can't hit over .170. He'll be back  in the minors or traded.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    The Sox stuck with Pedroia and the payoff was huge.  We should be getting used to seeing players develop by now.  I think the Sox give Bradley a couple months to hack it before giving more time to alternatives.  I like his development path... bring him up and have him work on his holes in the minors... come back and show improvement in areas he went down to work on.

     

    Those are the players that make it IMO... not worried at all to be honest.  Not worried about him or Xander... the difference is that Xander makes these changes on the fly in game.  Both players carry themselves as winners and have the right type of energy.

    [/QUOTE]

    To be honest, I'm worried.

    Taken individually, I like JBJ, I like Bogey, and I like Middy, but out of the 3, my guess is that one will not reach expectations in 2014. Maybe two.

    It's one reason I thought we should have signed a solid SS back-up. Maybe I'm misjudging Herrera, but when I look at our bench, I think our weakest 2 areas of depth are SS and CF. Yes, Victorino can play CF, but moving Nava to RF and forcing Gomes to play LF FT, seriously compromises our OF defense and platoon set-up.

    We may be fine, even if one of the 3 fail or struggle for a long period of time. I like our roster construction and think we have less big question marks than almost every other team. I think some tweeks may be our future, but I'm pretty confident in our chances.

    [/QUOTE]

    Moon,

    The sox have little to lose and much to gain allowing all three to play...Given the depth of our pitching staff. Cherington has the chips to deal to address a fatal flaw...personally I'm looking forward to watching the kids play...

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxDOrtiz. Show RedSoxDOrtiz's posts

    Re: JBJ described as a defensive upgrade over Jacoby

    Those are the players that make it IMO... not worried at all to be honest.  Not worried about him or Xander... the difference is that Xander makes these changes on the fly in game.  Both players carry themselves as winners and have the right type of energy.

    [/QUOTE]

    To be honest, I'm worried.

    Taken individually, I like JBJ, I like Bogey, and I like Middy, but out of the 3, my guess is that one will not reach expectations in 2014. Maybe two.

    It's one reason I thought we should have signed a solid SS back-up. Maybe I'm misjudging Herrera, but when I look at our bench, I think our weakest 2 areas of depth are SS and CF. Yes, Victorino can play CF, but moving Nava to RF and forcing Gomes to play LF FT, seriously compromises our OF defense and platoon set-up.

    We may be fine, even if one of the 3 fail or struggle for a long period of time. I like our roster construction and think we have less big question marks than almost every other team. I think some tweeks may be our future, but I'm pretty confident in our chances.

    [/QUOTE]

    Moon,

    The sox have little to lose and much to gain allowing all three to play...Given the depth of our pitching staff. Cherington has the chips to deal to address a fatal flaw...personally I'm looking forward to watching the kids play...

    [/QUOTE]

    I have been jealous of Tampa and their prospects for quite some time... it is about time that they will be looking the other way for once.  It might be one of those, 'be careful of what you wish for' things in life... but I agree with you.  I can't wait to see the kids play.

    I'm confident in at least Xander and JBJ... not so much on Middlebrooks, but he should be better than last year.

    Good pitching should allow for some patience with the kids.  I am very excited for what the future holds with this team.  When we combine a steady stream of young talent with our financial abilities... it should prove to build a generation of winning tradition. 

    Welcome to the new age rivalry Cardinals... I hope to see you for years to come in the world series!.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: JBJ described as a defensive upgrade over Jacoby

    Moon,

    The sox have little to lose and much to gain allowing all three to play...Given the depth of our pitching staff. Cherington has the chips to deal to address a fatal flaw...personally I'm looking forward to watching the kids play...

     

    I am too. I want to see the kids play. I had hopes of seeing Bogey where I think he belongs: 3B, and Iggy at SS, but I do not want to stir up that whole hornet's nest. (The Peavy trade made sense.)

    I still think trading Dempster will eventually happen once the pitching starved GMs start calling and upping their offers. The salary relief will open up the door for 1-2 nice mid-season salary dump deals, if needed.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: JBJ described as a defensive upgrade over Jacoby

    I have been jealous of Tampa and their prospects for quite some time... it is about time that they will be looking the other way for once.  It might be one of those, 'be careful of what you wish for' things in life... but I agree with you.  I can't wait to see the kids play.

    I'm confident in at least Xander and JBJ... not so much on Middlebrooks, but he should be better than last year.

    Good pitching should allow for some patience with the kids.  I am very excited for what the future holds with this team.  When we combine a steady stream of young talent with our financial abilities... it should prove to build a generation of winning tradition. 

    Welcome to the new age rivalry Cardinals... I hope to see you for years to come in the world series!.

     

    Recently, the Rays have built their team more by trade than draft. Yes, they have traded for some good to great prospects and have locked up some of their young studs longterm cheap, so it is hard not to admire their methodology.

    The Cards make an awesome model as well.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from trouts. Show trouts's posts

    Re: JBJ described as a defensive upgrade over Jacoby

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    They will miss his base running ability even more than his bat. Every time Ellsbury gets on base, the pitcher gets spooked; next hitter has big advantage. 

    Not always. Sometimes a batter is "spooked" by a runner taking off and feels like he has to protect the runner, thereby changing his swing and approach, but your point is well taken. Jacoby on the bases will be missed.

    [/QUOTE]

    Pretty much disagree here. The next batter is certainly not going to get a breaking ball in the dirt. He'll most likely get a heater so that the catcher has a better chance to throw the runner out.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: JBJ described as a defensive upgrade over Jacoby

    In response to trouts' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    They will miss his base running ability even more than his bat. Every time Ellsbury gets on base, the pitcher gets spooked; next hitter has big advantage. 

    Not always. Sometimes a batter is "spooked" by a runner taking off and feels like he has to protect the runner, thereby changing his swing and approach, but your point is well taken. Jacoby on the bases will be missed.

    [/QUOTE]

    Pretty much disagree here. The next batter is certainly not going to get a breaking ball in the dirt. He'll most likely get a heater so that the catcher has a better chance to throw the runner out.

    [/QUOTE]

    Big picture with Victorino leading off the opponent's will still have to protect against the steal a d hold him on, opening the hole on the right side with the pitchers throwing from the slide step. So in terms of strategy I don't see the loss of Ellsbury being that big a deal for the two hole hitter...

    That said, I'm not all that concerned about losing Ellsbury ability to steal...rather his bat from the top of the order and his ability to score from first on a double.  No doubt he'll be missed, how much assuming Victorino leads off and hits to his career norms, depends on how productive our two hole hitters are. Nava appears to be the best candidate given his OB ability. If both combine for .350 to .360 OB the big boys will have ton of RBI opportunities...

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: JBJ described as a defensive upgrade over Jacoby

    In response to trouts' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    They will miss his base running ability even more than his bat. Every time Ellsbury gets on base, the pitcher gets spooked; next hitter has big advantage. 

    Not always. Sometimes a batter is "spooked" by a runner taking off and feels like he has to protect the runner, thereby changing his swing and approach, but your point is well taken. Jacoby on the bases will be missed.

    [/QUOTE]

    Pretty much disagree here. The next batter is certainly not going to get a breaking ball in the dirt. He'll most likely get a heater so that the catcher has a better chance to throw the runner out.

    [/QUOTE]

    I think there are times when a hitter tries to protect a breaking runner, especially on a hit and run. Sometimes, he swings at balls out of the strike zone, so the runner will not be thrown out.

    I do think the pluses of a great base stealer like Jacoby far outweigh the occaisonal minuses.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: JBJ described as a defensive upgrade over Jacoby

    Big picture with Victorino leading off the opponent's will still have to protect against the steal a d hold him on, opening the hole on the right side with the pitchers throwing from the slide step. So in terms of strategy I don't see the loss of Ellsbury being that big a deal for the two hole hitter...

    True, but now that Shane is not up 2nd, what about the effect on the 3rd or 4th hitter?

    That said, I'm not all that concerned about losing Ellsbury ability to steal...rather his bat from the top of the order and his ability to score from first on a double.  No doubt he'll be missed, how much assuming Victorino leads off and hits to his career norms, depends on how productive our two hole hitters are. Nava appears to be the best candidate given his OB ability. If both combine for .350 to .360 OB the big boys will have ton of RBI opportunities...

    A Nava/Gomes platoon up 2nd could increas our OBP from the 1-2 slot over 2013. This may help to partially lessen the pain of losing the speed.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from steven11. Show steven11's posts

    Re: JBJ described as a defensive upgrade over Jacoby

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to trouts' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    They will miss his base running ability even more than his bat. Every time Ellsbury gets on base, the pitcher gets spooked; next hitter has big advantage. 

    Not always. Sometimes a batter is "spooked" by a runner taking off and feels like he has to protect the runner, thereby changing his swing and approach, but your point is well taken. Jacoby on the bases will be missed.

    [/QUOTE]

    Pretty much disagree here. The next batter is certainly not going to get a breaking ball in the dirt. He'll most likely get a heater so that the catcher has a better chance to throw the runner out.

    [/QUOTE]

    I think there are times when a hitter tries to protect a breaking runner, especially on a hit and run. Sometimes, he swings at balls out of the strike zone, so the runner will not be thrown out.

    I do think the pluses of a great base stealer like Jacoby far outweigh the occaisonal minuses.

    [/QUOTE]


    Pitchers get spooked when JBJ gets on base as well.  Stats don't show this but once the fans see more of JBJ, they'll see the respect pitchers show him.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from trouts. Show trouts's posts

    Re: JBJ described as a defensive upgrade over Jacoby

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to trouts' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    They will miss his base running ability even more than his bat. Every time Ellsbury gets on base, the pitcher gets spooked; next hitter has big advantage. 

    Not always. Sometimes a batter is "spooked" by a runner taking off and feels like he has to protect the runner, thereby changing his swing and approach, but your point is well taken. Jacoby on the bases will be missed.



    Pretty much disagree here. The next batter is certainly not going to get a breaking ball in the dirt. He'll most likely get a heater so that the catcher has a better chance to throw the runner out.

    [/QUOTE]

    I think there are times when a hitter tries to protect a breaking runner, especially on a hit and run. Sometimes, he swings at balls out of the strike zone, so the runner will not be thrown out.

    I do think the pluses of a great base stealer like Jacoby far outweigh the occaisonal minuses.

    [/QUOTE]

    Wanted to get back to you on an earlier post. Often times you assert that Ellsbury would get a lousy jump on the ball and take bad routes. Usually your posts are well researched and documented, so I'm wondering what's the proof of that? I never saw that and I've heard that comment repeated ad nauseum. When I watched the games he seemed to get to balls few outfielders in the game would get to. Even if he took the Mass Pike to get to balls, who cares as long as he caught them?

     
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