JBJ'S over .220, hitting 6th and finally over .300 OBP.. will it last?

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    Re: JBJ'S over .220, hitting 6th and finally over .300 OBP.. will it last?

    ‏@PeteAbe
    JBJ is 13 of his last 40 (.325). Lots of progress at the plate last few weeks for the #redsox

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: JBJ'S over .220, hitting 6th and finally over .300 OBP.. will it last?

    Yes. Next year, he will hit .280/.345/.430/.775 (about the same OPS as Ellsbury will have).

    He will win the GG.

     

    Sox4ever

     
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    Re: JBJ'S over .220, hitting 6th and finally over .300 OBP.. will it last?

    Even some of his outs have been hit hard.  He is going in the right direction.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Teakus. Show Teakus's posts

    Re: JBJ'S over .220, hitting 6th and finally over .300 OBP.. will it last?

    I certainly hope so! But 20 days do not a season make, as we all know, and JBJ has had some hot streaks in the past only to fall back again. Has he figured out something? Perhaps closed a hole in his swing, learned to better read pitches thrown, etc.? Time will tell. But my gut tells me he's still not developed the plate discipline necessary to hit MLB pitching.

    Teakus-Carpe Veritatem!

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: JBJ'S over .220, hitting 6th and finally over .300 OBP.. will it last?

    His minor league track record (.297/.404/.471) says he is going to be a hitter.

    The team's (and our) patience with this kid is going to be rewarded. He's already a privilege to watch in CF, but the bat is going to come around, as I've been saying for some time.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: JBJ'S over .220, hitting 6th and finally over .300 OBP.. will it last?

    first of all, Boston have projected him to be a bottom of the order hitter anyway.  No big deal if he is batting 9th.  Remember Brett Gardner first year with the Yankees, he was only hitting .228.

    If Bradley is going to get better such as to start hitting around .270 average every year, I would be fine with that cuz I rather to have him in the CF defending the whole center field.   So far he is doing a heck of a job as a defender.

    He is not the problem for the team lately.  There were others that gave alot of problems such as Sizemore, AJP, etc.  Now they are all gone.  Boston will continue to make more moves to make the team to be a better team in the second half.

    I would not trade him yet.  There is not much CF out there that can replace him.  Dont start with Matt Kemp cuz he is an often injure proned player.  If he ever get hurt, who will back him up.  Cuz Bradley will be likely to be use in the trade bait to get Kemp.

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: JBJ'S over .220, hitting 6th and finally over .300 OBP.. will it last?

    In response to GoUconn13's comment:

    first of all, Boston have projected him to be a bottom of the order hitter anyway.  No big deal if he is batting 9th.  Remember Brett Gardner first year with the Yankees, he was only hitting .228.

    If Bradley is going to get better such as to start hitting around .270 average every year, I would be fine with that cuz I rather to have him in the CF defending the whole center field.   So far he is doing a heck of a job as a defender.

    He is not the problem for the team lately.  There were others that gave alot of problems such as Sizemore, AJP, etc.  Now they are all gone.  Boston will continue to make more moves to make the team to be a better team in the second half.

    I would not trade him yet.  There is not much CF out there that can replace him.  Dont start with Matt Kemp cuz he is an often injure proned player.  If he ever get hurt, who will back him up.  Cuz Bradley will be likely to be use in the trade bait to get Kemp.

     



    The only player I have completely lost faith in that was in our current plan is Middy.  The other lids like Bogy, Betts, JBJ, Vasquez and Holt should finish the year at the big league level.  I would even bring in Marrero or Cecchini for some playing time and get rid of Drew.  We should know in the off season who fits and who doesn't.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: JBJ'S over .220, hitting 6th and finally over .300 OBP.. will it last?

    This thread is kind of missing the point.  Bradley has played a ton of center field already this year even when his hitting was lousy (OPS below .600, etc).  Why?  Because right now his DWAR (defensive wins above replacement) is the best in MLB.  Not the AL, but all of MLB.  

    And his overall WAR (wins above replacement), which is the only stat I know that tries to assess a player's overall skill set and contributions to winning games, is 1.5, which makes him the 13th best overall center fielder in MLB.  Playing, of course, at minimum wage ($500K, a salary we can only dream of).  

    Ellsbury, whose DWAR is in negative territory--surprise, surprise--has an overall WAR of 1.9, which makes him the 11th best center fielder in MLB.  He is of course paid a ton more money than any of the ten center fielders ranked ahead of him.   Scott Boras continues to re-prove, season after season, that PT Barnum was right:  there is a sucker born every minute.  

     
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    Re: JBJ'S over .220, hitting 6th and finally over .300 OBP.. will it last?

    Love seeing JBJ start to hit.  Go Jackie go.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: JBJ'S over .220, hitting 6th and finally over .300 OBP.. will it last?

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

    In response to GoUconn13's comment:

    first of all, Boston have projected him to be a bottom of the order hitter anyway.  No big deal if he is batting 9th.  Remember Brett Gardner first year with the Yankees, he was only hitting .228.

    If Bradley is going to get better such as to start hitting around .270 average every year, I would be fine with that cuz I rather to have him in the CF defending the whole center field.   So far he is doing a heck of a job as a defender.

    He is not the problem for the team lately.  There were others that gave alot of problems such as Sizemore, AJP, etc.  Now they are all gone.  Boston will continue to make more moves to make the team to be a better team in the second half.

    I would not trade him yet.  There is not much CF out there that can replace him.  Dont start with Matt Kemp cuz he is an often injure proned player.  If he ever get hurt, who will back him up.  Cuz Bradley will be likely to be use in the trade bait to get Kemp.

     



    The only player I have completely lost faith in that was in our current plan is Middy.  The other lids like Bogy, Betts, JBJ, Vasquez and Holt should finish the year at the big league level.  I would even bring in Marrero or Cecchini for some playing time and get rid of Drew.  We should know in the off season who fits and who doesn't.



    Drew is playing awesome at SS.  He made alot of tough plays where Bogarets or whoever the other SS wouldnt not make these plays.  Just like Bradley in CF.  

    Right now Boston are winning three games in a row....leave the team alone for now.  Maybe they can make a trade to get a bat...but got to be a good one like Stanton, etc.

    Middy is a good player, and he played alot last year as well he hit well last year.  And also a year before that.  This year he is struggling due to broken finger.  And also strained his calf.  I would wait and give him another one more full year next year to judge on whether to keep him at 3b or trade him.   If Sox want to trade him now, they better get a better player in return.  Maybe they can trade him to Texas for Angus.  Both players need to change scenery.

    Like I said, Ben C can just stay pact for now except maybe to trade Carp, Nava, Peavy. etc cuz they do not have a room for them anymore due other younger guys are doing better such as 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: JBJ'S over .220, hitting 6th and finally over .300 OBP.. will it last?

    In response to Teakus' comment:


    I certainly hope so! But 20 days do not a season make, as we all know, and JBJ has had some hot streaks in the past only to fall back again. Has he figured out something? Perhaps closed a hole in his swing, learned to better read pitches thrown, etc.? Time will tell. But my gut tells me he's still not developed the plate discipline necessary to hit MLB pitching.


    Teakus-Carpe Veritatem!




    it's been more like 5 weeks than 20 days the results have been there...and the improved approach has been there for almost 2 months.  JBJ has actually has a really good plate approach and plate discipline so I have absolutely ZERO ideal where you get that opinion from other than the fact that you looked at his results and came to the conclusions that he can't hit MLB pitching. 


    Not hitting doesn't exactly equate to a bad approach.  I saw you calling for him to go down about a DAY ago.  JBJ had a reputation of putting together great, patient at bats and hitting in the minors, was rushed, seems to have finally put it together the last 2 months, the results have been there the last month this is absolutely the WORST time to send him down.


    I was one of the only people on this board to point out we were rushing JBJ in 2013, then I was one of the only people defending him when he went back down to Pawtucket for more seasoning, and then I was one of the only people defending him this year suggesting that he was going to put it all together and he finally has.


    I have no crystal ball, but everyone on this board is either to quick too love someone, or too quick to hate them. There is no middle ground in here.....


    The next guy will be Vasquez....the second he goes on any kind of little slump everyone will want him gone.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: JBJ'S over .220, hitting 6th and finally over .300 OBP.. will it last?

    I was one of the only people on this board to point out we were rushing JBJ in 2013, then I was one of the only people defending him when he went back down to Pawtucket for more seasoning...


    It's fun now to look back on March 2013, when people were comparing him to Mike Trout and Bryce Harper and acting like starting him off in Pawtucket would be equivalent to the FO giving up on the season and taking a dump on the fans. Now some of those same posters label him a bust/bum/etc.


    If that experience didn't demonstrate that spring training statistics usually mean little to nothing, I don't know what will.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: JBJ'S over .220, hitting 6th and finally over .300 OBP.. will it last?

    I always like to rave about prospects in here years before they are MLB ready, but back in 2013 I was one of the ONLY people on this board stating that we were rushing JBJ in spring training and that it was absurd that anyone would think he was MLB ready based on spring training stats.

    Then JBJ was sent down, and didn't do much better during a late season call up (despite having a very good season down in Pawtucket).  Then the tone in here turned into JBJ will never hit, he can't hit, he's not a MLB hitter.  Then the tables had turned and I became one of the only posters in here advocating to give him some time and let him come around.  Just because a guy isn't hitting at the MLB level doesn't mean they have anything left to learn in the minors.  You can't learn to hit MLB pitching against Milb pitchers, that is absurd and if you have already mastered the Milb level the only thing you can do is learn on the job.

    Progression is not linear, I repeat, It.Is.Not.Linear. Some guys will hit right away, some will have their best season in their rookie campaigns, some will struggle right off the bat and become superstars in a year or two.  It is a risk you have to take at some point unless you want to field 9 guys bought in free agency.

    There are a million things we can all agree to disagree on in here, but the one thing that should absolutely be stressed the most is patience. Have some patience with the kids, and some of the guys that aren't getting now will get it soon.

    Guys like Bogaerts, and Betts are going to be stars and should take their lumps now.  Vazquez probably has some struggles ahead of him as well.....but I'm sure there is at least one dumb*** in here who thinks the career minor league lifetime hitter of .265/.344/.392 (which would be really really good for a defense first catcher) is going to magically hit .400 for the next month.  Is it plausible???? sure....but he more than likely struggles to some extent at the plate over the next month.

    Maybe.....just maybe....this could be the ONE time we won't do that.  maybe????

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: JBJ'S over .220, hitting 6th and finally over .300 OBP.. will it last?

    In response to Flapjack07's comment:

    I was one of the only people on this board to point out we were rushing JBJ in 2013, then I was one of the only people defending him when he went back down to Pawtucket for more seasoning...

     

    It's fun now to look back on March 2013, when people were comparing him to Mike Trout and Bryce Harper and acting like starting him off in Pawtucket would be equivalent to the FO giving up on the season and taking a dump on the fans. Now some of those same posters label him a bust/bum/etc.

     

    If that experience didn't demonstrate that spring training statistics usually mean little to nothing, I don't know what will.




    And the thing is, there will always be the next JBJ, these people NEVER learn the lesson.  I remember arguing with softlaw about the issue, he was so sure that JBJ was MLB ready because he "personally" scouted him.  and the only reason he struggled in 2013 is because the F.O. messed him up.  he was rushed by a good year in 2013.  I'll admit I was a little taken back by his struggles early this year, but I knew it was mind-blowingly obvious he wasn't ready last year.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: JBJ'S over .220, hitting 6th and finally over .300 OBP.. will it last?

    In response to GoUconn13's comment:


    In response to craze4sox's comment:



    n response to GoUconn13's comment:


    first of all, Boston have projected him to be a bottom of the order hitter anyway.  No big deal if he is batting 9th.  Remember Brett Gardner first year with the Yankees, he was only hitting .228.


    If Bradley is going to get better such as to start hitting around .270 average every year, I would be fine with that cuz I rather to have him in the CF defending the whole center field.   So far he is doing a heck of a job as a defender.


    He is not the problem for the team lately.  There were others that gave alot of problems such as Sizemore, AJP, etc.  Now they are all gone.  Boston will continue to make more moves to make the team to be a better team in the second half.


    I would not trade him yet.  There is not much CF out there that can replace him.  Dont start with Matt Kemp cuz he is an often injure proned player.  If he ever get hurt, who will back him up.  Cuz Bradley will be likely to be use in the trade bait to get Kemp.


    Quote:

    The only player I have completely lost faith in that was in our current plan is Middy.  The other lids like Bogy, Betts, JBJ, Vasquez and Holt should finish the year at the big league level.  I would even bring in Marrero or Cecchini for some playing time and get rid of Drew.  We should know in the off season who fits and who doesn't.
    Drew is playing awesome at SS.  He made alot of tough plays where Bogarets or whoever the other SS wouldnt not make these plays.  Just like Bradley in CF.  



    Right now Boston are winning three games in a row....leave the team alone for now.  Maybe they can make a trade to get a bat...but got to be a good one like Stanton, etc.


    Middy is a good player, and he played alot last year as well he hit well last year.  And also a year before that.  This year he is struggling due to broken finger.  And also strained his calf.  I would wait and give him another one more full year next year to judge on whether to keep him at 3b or trade him.   If Sox want to trade him now, they better get a better player in return.  Maybe they can trade him to Texas for Angus.  Both players need to change scenery.


    Like I said, Ben C can just stay pact for now except maybe to trade Carp, Nava, Peavy. etc cuz they do not have a room for them anymore due other younger guys are doing better such as 




    Middy has only played 115 games the past two seasons and been on the DL constantly.  He also owns a career .296 OBP while striking out four times more than he walks.  I'm not sure why you feel he is a good player just because he can pop a HR at times.  Even Napoli gets OB so calling Middy a good player is quite a stretch.  Our entire lineup consists of four every day players in Shane and Nap when healthy, Pede and Papi, every other player struggles offensively and/or defensively which is why we have a terrible team OBP and are sitting in or close to last place.  Kids like Betts, Holt, Bogy and JBJ deserve more time not Middy who is fragile and not very talented.  Having Youk in his prime makes Middy look like a high school player.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: JBJ'S over .220, hitting 6th and finally over .300 OBP.. will it last?

    If we trade, cut or bench Drew, we'd have room to give Middy one last long look at 3B. I've never been a big Middy fan, but it can't hurt to give him a shot to at least raise his trade stock.

    I know it might take away some PAs from Cecchini or an OF'er (as Holt can play left side IF to open up a slot for Betts and JBJ to play FT.

     

    Sox4ever

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: JBJ'S over .220, hitting 6th and finally over .300 OBP.. will it last?

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    In response to Teakus' comment:

     

     

    I certainly hope so! But 20 days do not a season make, as we all know, and JBJ has had some hot streaks in the past only to fall back again. Has he figured out something? Perhaps closed a hole in his swing, learned to better read pitches thrown, etc.? Time will tell. But my gut tells me he's still not developed the plate discipline necessary to hit MLB pitching.

     

    Teakus-Carpe Veritatem!

     

     



    it's been more like 5 weeks than 20 days the results have been there...and the improved approach has been there for almost 2 months.  JBJ has actually has a really good plate approach and plate discipline so I have absolutely ZERO ideal where you get that opinion from other than the fact that you looked at his results and came to the conclusions that he can't hit MLB pitching. 

     

     

    Not hitting doesn't exactly equate to a bad approach.  I saw you calling for him to go down about a DAY ago.  JBJ had a reputation of putting together great, patient at bats and hitting in the minors, was rushed, seems to have finally put it together the last 2 months, the results have been there the last month this is absolutely the WORST time to send him down.

     

    I was one of the only people on this board to point out we were rushing JBJ in 2013, then I was one of the only people defending him when he went back down to Pawtucket for more seasoning, and then I was one of the only people defending him this year suggesting that he was going to put it all together and he finally has.

     

    I have no crystal ball, but everyone on this board is either to quick too love someone, or too quick to hate them. There is no middle ground in here.....

     

    The next guy will be Vasquez....the second he goes on any kind of little slump everyone will want him gone.



    If this year has taught us nothing else, it should have taught us that while we can afford one black hole defense first player, we cannot afford to have the last four guys in our lineup be black holes. Thats what landed us last in runs scored in the league. I can handle Vasquez batting .220/.700 or thereabouts as long as we have a potent offense at other positions, but if we have a Drew and a 2014 Bogaerts and a JBJ (yes, he is doing better, but his overall offensive numbers are still .223/.610-not good enough) then we cannot also afford a catcher who cannot hit. So yes, if thats the situation then its not going to work and someone will have to go to bolster the offense. Not this year; its already toast, but maybe next year or 2016.

    WE ARE ALL JUST POPPYSEEDS IN THE BAKERY OF LIFE

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: JBJ'S over .220, hitting 6th and finally over .300 OBP.. will it last?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:


    If we trade, cut or bench Drew, we'd have room to give Middy one last long look at 3B. I've never been a big Middy fan, but it can't hurt to give him a shot to at least raise his trade stock.


    I know it might take away some PAs from Cecchini or an OF'er (as Holt can play left side IF to open up a slot for Betts and JBJ to play FT.


    Sox4ever




    moon,


    I'm fine with whatever our FO decides because I felt this season was and has been a wash anyway.  I'm not ok with keeping players too long that have little to no real value to our lineup moving forward, or are simply fragile like Middy and Shane.  I would personally be fine with trading them both since Shane's injury just seems to never really cure.  I feel the same with Buchholz, when healthy he can be one of the best so why not put his name out there in a package to see how other teams value him.  If and only if we retain Jon, otherwise our staff will not recover for some time without giving boatloads of money to another FA.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from trouts. Show trouts's posts

    Re: JBJ'S over .220, hitting 6th and finally over .300 OBP.. will it last?

    In response to Flapjack07's comment:

    His minor league track record (.297/.404/.471) says he is going to be a hitter.

    The team's (and our) patience with this kid is going to be rewarded. He's already a privilege to watch in CF, but the bat is going to come around, as I've been saying for some time.



    If you combine his 2013 & 14 stats for 120 games his BA is still .214 and his OBP is below .300. I have high hopes for JBJ but he has cut to cut down his strikeouts, where he averages just about one SO every 3 at-bats, and just continue to spray the ball all over the park. 

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: JBJ'S over .220, hitting 6th and finally over .300 OBP.. will it last?

    In response to trouts' comment:

    In response to Flapjack07's comment:

    His minor league track record (.297/.404/.471) says he is going to be a hitter.

    The team's (and our) patience with this kid is going to be rewarded. He's already a privilege to watch in CF, but the bat is going to come around, as I've been saying for some time.



    If you combine his 2013 & 14 stats for 120 games his BA is still .214 and his OBP is below .300. I have high hopes for JBJ but he has cut to cut down his strikeouts, where he averages just about one SO every 3 at-bats, and just continue to spray the ball all over the park. 



    Have you looked at his splits for the past month??? JBJ has cut down his strike out rate.  He's also cut down on the amount of pitches he swings at outside the zone and his contact % in and out of the zone have all increased.  He's swinging at less balls, and making more contact in the zone....and he's making more contact.

    Perhaps it's just a "hot streaK' but this is what turning the corner would look like.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: JBJ'S over .220, hitting 6th and finally over .300 OBP.. will it last?

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:



    If this year has taught us nothing else, it should have taught us that while we can afford one black hole defense first player, we cannot afford to have the last four guys in our lineup be black holes. Thats what landed us last in runs scored in the league.

    WE ARE ALL JUST POPPYSEEDS IN THE BAKERY OF LIFE



    No -- what has landed the Red Sox last in runs scored is the No. 3 hitter and No. 5 hitter (Pedroia and Napoli) hitting .200 or below w/RISP, which has allowed teams to pitch around Ortiz even more this year. Of course, having the bottom of the lineup being black holes for large stretches doesn't help, but at least Bradley has been good w/RISP. Your 3-4-5 hitters are your run producers. When two of the three have been so pitiful at driving in runs this year, that's where the blame begins. If Pedroia and Napoli were at least close to their average w/RISP, then the bottom of the lineup would be the reason the Sox would be in the middle of the pack in runs.

     

     

 
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    Re: JBJ'S over .220, hitting 6th and finally over .300 OBP.. will it last?

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    In response to Flapjack07's comment:

    I was one of the only people on this board to point out we were rushing JBJ in 2013, then I was one of the only people defending him when he went back down to Pawtucket for more seasoning...

     

    It's fun now to look back on March 2013, when people were comparing him to Mike Trout and Bryce Harper and acting like starting him off in Pawtucket would be equivalent to the FO giving up on the season and taking a dump on the fans. Now some of those same posters label him a bust/bum/etc.

     

    If that experience didn't demonstrate that spring training statistics usually mean little to nothing, I don't know what will.




    And the thing is, there will always be the next JBJ, these people NEVER learn the lesson.  I remember arguing with softlaw about the issue, he was so sure that JBJ was MLB ready because he "personally" scouted him.  and the only reason he struggled in 2013 is because the F.O. messed him up.  he was rushed by a good year in 2013.  I'll admit I was a little taken back by his struggles early this year, but I knew it was mind-blowingly obvious he wasn't ready last year.




    [object HTMLDivElement]

    'Never learn' is not quite correct.  It's more like 'can't learn'.

    IRT being rushed, I think the decision had more to do with Papi being hurt.  There are different configurations, but Gomes at DH and JBJ in LF was not unreasonable.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: JBJ'S over .220, hitting 6th and finally over .300 OBP.. will it last?

    If you combine his 2013 & 14 stats for 120 games his BA is still .214 and his OBP is below .300. I have high hopes for JBJ but he has cut to cut down his strikeouts, where he averages just about one SO every 3 at-bats, and just continue to spray the ball all over the park.

    JBJ was yanked up and down from the minors to majors like 5 or 6 times last year. I wouldn't weight those PAs too heavily.

    Sox4ever

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: JBJ'S over .220, hitting 6th and finally over .300 OBP.. will it last?

    All the way with JBJ!

     
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