JD Drew v Alfonso Soriano

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    JD Drew v Alfonso Soriano

    Why these two? In my preseason list of 40ish players I'd take for this season over Drew (that number has gone WAY up, by the way), he garnered the most attention. I was considered foolish to not consider Drew in my top 40 OFers to begin with, but Soriano brought me extra special ridicule.

    Anyone like to change their opinion now?

    At this point, Drew's not even really the starter, so we'll begin right there, though it shouldn't be a surprise...he's hitting .231 with ONE HR and 5 rbi! Oh, I know, all you sabermetricians will point to his .341 OBP as some savior stat...that wonderful OBP has led to all of 9 runs scored. Whoop. E.

    Soriano? Nothing fantastic, though I never expected anything outrageous. Would I rather his .257, 11 HR, 21 RBi and 17 runs? Who wouldn't?! Even with his 29 Ks...which must be a lot more than Drew's...oh, he's at 22...in 31 less at bats.

    And again, as was my original point, I would pay Soriano the 4 mil more for this year than Drew is getting.

    Oh, but what do I expect, people to own up to their own ignorance? I won't hold my breath...I almost think people would go so far as to create an exclusive forum rather than have a real discussion.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: JD Drew v Alfonso Soriano

    In Response to JD Drew v Alfonso Soriano:
    Why these two? In my preseason list of 40ish players I'd take for this season over Drew (that number has gone WAY up, by the way), he garnered the most attention. I was considered foolish to not consider Drew in my top 40 OFers to begin with, but Soriano brought me extra special ridicule. Anyone like to change their opinion now? At this point, Drew's not even really the starter, so we'll begin right there, though it shouldn't be a surprise...he's hitting .231 with ONE HR and 5 rbi! Oh, I know, all you sabermetricians will point to his .341 OBP as some savior stat...that wonderful OBP has led to all of 9 runs scored. Whoop. E. Soriano? Nothing fantastic, though I never expected anything outrageous. Would I rather his .257, 11 HR, 21 RBi and 17 runs? Who wouldn't?! Even with his 29 Ks...which must be a lot more than Drew's...oh, he's at 22...in 31 less at bats. And again, as was my original point, I would pay Soriano the 4 mil more for this year than Drew is getting. Oh, but what do I expect, people to own up to their own ignorance? I won't hold my breath...I almost think people would go so far as to create an exclusive forum rather than have a real discussion.
    Posted by ma6dragon9

    Alfonso Soriano has been valued at 0.5 WAR* so far this season while J.D. Drew has been valued at 0.4 WAR. In their careers, the 35-year-old Soriano has been valued at 33.7 WAR in 1,497 games while the 35-year-old Drew has been valued at 47.1 WAR in 1,510 games.

    * Wins Above Replacement as reported at FanGraphs
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Speed3Bri. Show Speed3Bri's posts

    Re: JD Drew v Alfonso Soriano

    In Response to JD Drew v Alfonso Soriano:
    Why these two? In my preseason list of 40ish players I'd take for this season over Drew (that number has gone WAY up, by the way), he garnered the most attention. I was considered foolish to not consider Drew in my top 40 OFers to begin with, but Soriano brought me extra special ridicule. Anyone like to change their opinion now? At this point, Drew's not even really the starter, so we'll begin right there, though it shouldn't be a surprise...he's hitting .231 with ONE HR and 5 rbi! Oh, I know, all you sabermetricians will point to his .341 OBP as some savior stat...that wonderful OBP has led to all of 9 runs scored. Whoop. E. Soriano? Nothing fantastic, though I never expected anything outrageous. Would I rather his .257, 11 HR, 21 RBi and 17 runs? Who wouldn't?! Even with his 29 Ks...which must be a lot more than Drew's...oh, he's at 22...in 31 less at bats. And again, as was my original point, I would pay Soriano the 4 mil more for this year than Drew is getting. Oh, but what do I expect, people to own up to their own ignorance? I won't hold my breath...I almost think people would go so far as to create an exclusive forum rather than have a real discussion.
    Posted by ma6dragon9


    Wow...  you must be loaded!!  Can I get a mere $300 from ya so I can make my car payment for this month?  I'm not asking for much since you can do the $4 mil extra for Soriano with no problems.

    Seriously though....  Soriano will average $17 mil a year going forward until 2014!!!!

    Do you still want him??   I'm in a 10 team fantasy league costing me and the 9 others zilch,  and no one has picked him up.  He KO's too much,  and he has no defense.

    Yeah,  Boston needs him using up $17 mil per of their budget over the next 3 years...  til the slacker is 40 years old.  Worst contract ever. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: JD Drew v Alfonso Soriano

    Sorianos contract makes it a little easier looking a JD's contract..They both signed the same year, so for those of you bashing JD, look at sorianos production, or lack there of, over the course of his deal. i didnt like either deal personally, but that was the going rate that year in FA, where you always overpay...
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: JD Drew v Alfonso Soriano

    Its way too early for these kinds of posts.  Drew could go 4 for 8 over the next 2 games with two homers and everyone would be saying he was having a great year.  Wait until someone has 150 at bats before you start judging their season.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: JD Drew v Alfonso Soriano

    In Response to Re: JD Drew v Alfonso Soriano:
    Its way too early for these kinds of posts.  Drew could go 4 for 8 over the next 2 games with two homers and everyone would be saying he was having a great year.  Wait until someone has 150 at bats before you start judging their season.
    Posted by snakeoil123


    150 at bats, fair enough.

    As for the contract comments, I didn't explain fully...in my original post on another thred (I know, going back...but the whole point of this was because of the over-the-top ridicule I took then...grudges, yes yes, blah blah blah, high road, whatever) I took into account salaries and everything for 2011 ONLY. Now, this seems to weight it towrds people like Soriano, and it does, but it also weights it against people like...say, Austin Jackson, Brett Gardner, and other younger cheap, higher ceiling guys. I figure it balanced out.

    My original argument:

    http://www.boston.com/community/forums.html?plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3aSportsForum%3a3fc713da-4715-4925-b94c-c14bddc7d8f4Discussion%3aa109c3a1-42f0-4db7-a84c-bebdef6a9730&plckCurrentPage=2
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: JD Drew v Alfonso Soriano

    In Response to Re: JD Drew v Alfonso Soriano:
    In Response to JD Drew v Alfonso Soriano : Wow...  you must be loaded!!  Can I get a mere $300 from ya so I can make my car payment for this month?  I'm not asking for much since you can do the $4 mil extra for Soriano with no problems. Seriously though....  Soriano will average $17 mil a year going forward until 2014!!!! Do you still want him??   I'm in a 10 team fantasy league costing me and the 9 others zilch,  and no one has picked him up.  He KO's too much,  and he has no defense. Yeah,  Boston needs him using up $17 mil per of their budget over the next 3 years...  til the slacker is 40 years old.  Worst contract ever. 
    Posted by Speed3Bri


    And Drew is your #1 OFer? zwho ranks higher in the computer's rankings?

    ESPN:
    JD Drew: Position Rank: 92. Owned: 5.9%
    Soriano: Position Rank: 16. Owned 100%

    Yahoo:
    JD Drew: Rank: 826. Owned: 11%
    Soriano: Rank: 22. Owned 85%

    You might want to pick him up.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: JD Drew v Alfonso Soriano

    In Response to Re: JD Drew v Alfonso Soriano:
    In Response to Re: JD Drew v Alfonso Soriano : And Drew is your #1 OFer? zwho ranks higher in the computer's rankings? ESPN: JD Drew: Position Rank: 92. Owned: 5.9% Soriano: Position Rank: 16. Owned 100% Yahoo: JD Drew: Rank: 826. Owned: 11% Soriano: Rank: 22. Owned 85% You might want to pick him up.
    Posted by ma6dragon9

    These numbers belong in a fantasy baseball forum, not in an "On the Front Burner" forum.

    Please distinguish fantasy from reality.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: JD Drew v Alfonso Soriano

    Would you trade JD even up for Carlos Beltran--$14 M Vs $18 M --- both in the last year of their contracts--both are currently playing RF? Beltran is having a better season so far than JD.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: JD Drew v Alfonso Soriano

    I don't get all the comparisons to other busts.  A bust is a bust. 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from byebyeepstein. Show byebyeepstein's posts

    Re: JD Drew v Alfonso Soriano

    i'm having a better season than DREW.
    with a long list of bad signings(which gets longer this year)THEO may have topped even himself with this 5 year, 70 million dollar  bad deal.

    theo and drew apologists need not reply.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: JD Drew v Alfonso Soriano

    J.D. Drew, who had a bout of vertigo last night, was back in the lineup today.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from YAZZER. Show YAZZER's posts

    Re: JD Drew v Alfonso Soriano

    i remember jimmy stewart having vertigo in a hitchcock movie.
    he reacted to being off the ground.
    when has drew ever left the ground.
    oh, maybe being picked up by his teammates after a game winning hit?
    no, that would never happpen.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from byebyeepstein. Show byebyeepstein's posts

    Re: JD Drew v Alfonso Soriano

    i remember jimmy stewart having vertigo(a dizzy confused state of mind.)
    that sounds more like what THEO had when he signed DREW.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: JD Drew v Alfonso Soriano

    In Response to Re: JD Drew v Alfonso Soriano:
    In Response to Re: JD Drew v Alfonso Soriano : These numbers belong in a fantasy baseball forum, not in an "On the Front Burner" forum. Please distinguish fantasy from reality.
    Posted by hill55


    Take it up with the person who brought the fantasy comments into the thread. Please distinguish your attempts at a witty barb from jack a s s ery. Aside from that, if you don't like a comment, don't respond you holier-than-thou a h o l e. Is this your forum? Is it not an open and public forum? Go whine in the private sector you baby.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from byebyeepstein. Show byebyeepstein's posts

    Re: JD Drew v Alfonso Soriano

    "j d drew who had a bout of vertigo last night was back in the line-up today."

    is that supposed to be GOOD or BAD news?

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: JD Drew v Alfonso Soriano

    In Response to JD Drew v Alfonso Soriano:
    Why these two? In my preseason list of 40ish players I'd take for this season over Drew (that number has gone WAY up, by the way), he garnered the most attention. I was considered foolish to not consider Drew in my top 40 OFers to begin with, but Soriano brought me extra special ridicule. Anyone like to change their opinion now? At this point, Drew's not even really the starter, so we'll begin right there, though it shouldn't be a surprise...he's hitting .231 with ONE HR and 5 rbi! Oh, I know, all you sabermetricians will point to his .341 OBP as some savior stat...that wonderful OBP has led to all of 9 runs scored. Whoop. E. Soriano? Nothing fantastic, though I never expected anything outrageous. Would I rather his .257, 11 HR, 21 RBi and 17 runs? Who wouldn't?! Even with his 29 Ks...which must be a lot more than Drew's...oh, he's at 22...in 31 less at bats. And again, as was my original point, I would pay Soriano the 4 mil more for this year than Drew is getting. Oh, but what do I expect, people to own up to their own ignorance? I won't hold my breath...I almost think people would go so far as to create an exclusive forum rather than have a real discussion.
    Posted by ma6dragon9


    Own up to their own ignorance?

    As someone who questioned your tactics, I cannot help but notice you only defend yourself on ONE name out of a list of about 40 outfielders.  And naturally, you insist it was the one that brought the most questions.    Actually, in all of my comments, I questioned the inclusion of Soriano AND Raul Ibanez together, but  you seem to have suddenly forgotten about that other player, much like Phillies’ management

    Drew stands before Thursday game with a .222/.300/.556 split for an .856 OPS

     

    Before you go slapping a prophet label on yourself, I’d like to remind you that I questioned you on ALL of the following players on YOUR list, among others:

     

    Raul Ibanez (.192 / .266 / .293)

    Rajai Davis (.196 / .241 / .255)

    Austin Jackson (.190 / .258 / .281)

    David DeJesus (.240 / .313 / .330)

    Adam Jones (.248 / .288 / .426)

    Angel Pagan (.159 / .249  / .156)

    Torii Hunter (.246 / .319 / .377)

    Carlos Lee (.207 / .248 / .360)

    Ryan Ludwick (.215 / .306 / .393)

    Corey Hart (.174 / .174 / .174)

     

    Not one OPS even close to .856. Heck, only one over .700.

     

    Now some of these players (Hart, Pagan, Davis, for example) have missed substantial time on the DL, but then one of the criticisms you had of Drew was his fragility.  Not holding it against them as well would be a double standard.

     

    In fact, that is all the original list was, was a list of double standards and rationalizations.  You would state you wanted age-free criteria, but then choose players for being younger.  Batting average here, runs scored there.  Always singling out one statistic when it worked for any player.  It was really kind of sad, actually.  It looked more like a vendetta than any sort of actual analysis.

     

    So maybe clinging to one of your small victories, and prematurely at that, might not place you in the light you think it does.  After all, if the season to date is the deciding factor, apparently Darwin Barney is a better second baseman than Dustin Pedroia. 

     

    Naturally, you don’t like OPS and prefer batting average pr whatever stat supports your arguement at the time.  Well on these outfielders, you missed completely.  1 for 11 (.092) is not a time to start bragging…

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: JD Drew v Alfonso Soriano

    Are you talking about a fantasy league or real life?

    If it's a current fantasy league, it depends on the setup.  In my league, Ks and walks count, and Soriano's 29/3 K/W really offsets his 11 HRs, and the 3 walks cuts down on the runs scored.  He's not a bad pick as long as you don't past the top 150 picks.

    You should also expect regression at this point and try to sell high.

    If you're talking about real life, I think the discussion is long over.  Soriano has a slightly higher WAR since 2007, but at a fair higher price.  If you were talking 2 5-year contracts, Soriano's .832 OPS and weak fielding compares okay to Drew's .846, but we get to spend Drew's $14M on someone else next year while the Cubs have to pay Soriano $18M per for the next three.

    The two contracts are not remotely close.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: JD Drew v Alfonso Soriano

    Nice notin, how about including games played next to those names (since I did agree with another poster that prior to 150 at bats, probably too premature), and see how half of them have missed significant time, and what has Drew's lofty OPS brought the Sox so far?

    NOTHING!

    His extended metrics are proving just how worthless those stats are. He has been a big, fat ZERO this year (and again, THIS YEAR PEOPLE! READ THE COMMENTS, ignorant and lazy apparently).

    So, for my list:

    Ludwick...playing in Petco, where Gonzalez came from. People expect Gonzalez to play better because he's no longer in Petco, you seem to assume Ludwick should just carry on as usual. Interesting, add hypocrite to that above, now growing, list.

    Davis/Dejesus/Jones/Pagan...if you'd really take Drew over any of these guys...I'd seriously question your baseball IQ. All bring a LOT more to the table than vertigo and balky...everything. Jones with his 25ish HR power, Davus and Dejesus with their around .300 career hitting and plus speed and D, and Pagan was on fire before getting hurt, he's one of the few Met bright spots.

    Hart was hurt for the first few weeks, just getting back, but look at the averages over the past 4 YEARS! It's not even a debate.

    Ibanez and Lee aren't going to work out. That was preseason, can I replace them with 15 or so OTHER names to further push Drew down my list? Because, really, it was rating Drew so low that raised so much ire. So, good for you, in my list of 40, you managed to find a handful of names who aren't living up to what I thought I would do.

    Hunter I would still rather have. He'll show up, go 100% as long as he can, and will be the first on the line to defend his teammates while playing D as good, if not better than Drew.

    Drew's OPS/WAR or whatever else you want to bring out will only fuel my fire. His OPS is helped by all those walks he supposedly gets...you know, with guys on third, or with 2 outs in the innings...those really help. He hasn't had a clutch hit since the 07 playoffs.

    You're right, 85% accuracy isn't very good.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: JD Drew v Alfonso Soriano

    To, again, explain:

    I'm talking real life.
    This season.
    Throw out contracts and age, strictly on expected production for THIS SEASON. Heck, I'd honestly rather give Kalish the at bats to see what we have going further, but that's speaking as a Sox fan. As a baseball fan, Drew probably wouldn't be in my top 60 at this point, or if you prefer, not one of the best 2 OFers on ANY team.
     
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