Jerry Sands and Rubby De La Rosa

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    Jerry Sands and Rubby De La Rosa

    Couple questions.

    Is Jerry Sands now the Sox first baseman of the future?

    Will/could Rubby be the next closer in Boston, or will he start?

    Also, will they be with the team for the remainder of the season? They seem to be about MLB ready and it would be nice to see what they've got for next year.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Jerry Sands and Rubby De La Rosa

    In Response to Jerry Sands and Rubby De La Rosa:
    [QUOTE]Couple questions. Is Jerry Sands now the Sox first baseman of the future? Will/could Rubby be the next closer in Boston, or will he start? Also, will they be with the team for the remainder of the season? They seem to be about MLB ready and it would be nice to see what they've got for next year.
    Posted by Bisson1[/QUOTE]Actually De LaRosa can't come over until the offseason as Toronto put in a waiver claim on him, so He's likely to be a PTBNL. As for Sands let's see what he can do in Pawtucket, since the International League is a little less hitter friendly than the PCL.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Jerry Sands and Rubby De La Rosa

    I'd do this deal for no prospects.

    BTW, Webstr is the highest rated prospect in the deal...

    4. Allen Webster, RHP
    BORN: Feb. 10, 1990
    EXPERIENCE: 4 seasons
    ACQUIRED: 2008 18th round, North Carolina HS
    2010-11 TOP 10 RANKING: 7th

    Webster has surprisingly good stuff and it has seemingly gotten better and better as he gains more experience on the mound. The right-hander still shows inconsistent command but, when he’s on, he gets good sinking action on his fastball and can touch the mid-to-upper 90s. He also features a curveball, slider and changeup but some feel he’d be better off scraping one of his breaking balls to allow him to focus more on developing three pitches. Webster split the ’11 season between high-A and double-A and he’s been very durable over the past two seasons. He’ll likely return to double-A in ’12 but will likely see time in triple-A – and quite possibly the Majors.- fangraphs

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from rightymclefty. Show rightymclefty's posts

    Re: Jerry Sands and Rubby De La Rosa

    Sands is a big guy. So is Ryan Sweeney. Time will tell.
    Anyone know what his Albuqereque numbers were? Thin air issue.
    I think everyone but Loney will be a PTBNL, due to the waiver situation.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Jerry Sands and Rubby De La Rosa

    In Response to Re: Jerry Sands and Rubby De La Rosa:
    [QUOTE]I'd do this deal for no prospects. BTW, Webstr is the highest rated prospect in the deal... 4.  Allen Webster , RHP BORN:  Feb. 10, 1990 EXPERIENCE:  4 seasons ACQUIRED:  2008 18th round, North Carolina HS 2010-11 TOP 10 RANKING:  7th Webster has surprisingly good stuff and it has seemingly gotten better and better as he gains more experience on the mound. The right-hander still shows inconsistent command but, when he’s on, he gets good sinking action on his fastball and can touch the mid-to-upper 90s. He also features a curveball, slider and changeup but some feel he’d be better off scraping one of his breaking balls to allow him to focus more on developing three pitches. Webster split the ’11 season between high-A and double-A and he’s been very durable over the past two seasons. He’ll likely return to double-A in ’12 but will likely see time in triple-A – and quite possibly the Majors.- fangraphs
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]I like Webster too. He actually has 5 pitches he can throw for strikes. He doesn't light up the radar guns like De LaRosa, but his secondary stuff is much better.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from joyceand. Show joyceand's posts

    Re: Jerry Sands and Rubby De La Rosa

    I don't think much of Cherington.  I know that the Sox needed to clean house and reduce salary but the Dodgers made out like bandits here and the Sox have gotten a bunch of mediocrity.
     
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    Re: Jerry Sands and Rubby De La Rosa

    In Response to Re: Jerry Sands and Rubby De La Rosa:
    [QUOTE]I don't think much of Cherington.  I know that the Sox needed to clean house and reduce salary but the Dodgers made out like bandits here and the Sox have gotten a bunch of mediocrity.
    Posted by joyceand[/QUOTE]


    I agree.  Dumping Beckett on the Dodgers would have been shrewd.  If Crawfor and AGon had to go, then smart baseball people trade them in the off-season, with several teams bidding and a careful evaluation by all involved to determine which prospect package is best. 

    I am wholly unimpressed with these 4 "prospects."  Webster reminds me of one Casey Kelly--lots of hype, short on results.  De LaRosa reminds me of Ranaudo.  Don't be surprised if 2015 rolls around and none of these 4 has cracked the 25 man roster.  In fact, I hope they are all trade bait for a real pitcher, as I see several better prospects in the Sox system for each one of them.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from rightymclefty. Show rightymclefty's posts

    Re: Jerry Sands and Rubby De La Rosa

    Webster, "lots of hype short on results" um, based on what?
    If they didn't get anything back, it would still be a GREAT trade!
     
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    Re: Jerry Sands and Rubby De La Rosa

    In Response to Re: Jerry Sands and Rubby De La Rosa:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jerry Sands and Rubby De La Rosa : No offense, but I think the Dodgers are insane to make this trade. They're taking on millions and millions of dollars and they're getting an oft-injured left fielder, a washed up pitcher and a very good first baseman.
    Posted by davetheknave[/QUOTE]

    ...all of whom will most likely have great years with the Dodgers who apparently are committed to winning again.  I love the deal and could care less about what happens to them now...the Sox have a chance to correct the errors of the last five years.  Go Sox!
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Jerry Sands and Rubby De La Rosa

    In Response to Re: Jerry Sands and Rubby De La Rosa:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jerry Sands and Rubby De La Rosa : I like Webster too. He actually has 5 pitches he can throw for strikes. He doesn't light up the radar guns like De LaRosa, but his secondary stuff is much better.
    Posted by carnie[/QUOTE]

    My guess is that the Sox and Dodgers made a "wink-wink" agreement that de la Rosa will be dealt to the Sox this winter for a bag of balls, so we will likely get Webster and de la Rosa anyways.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: Jerry Sands and Rubby De La Rosa

    In Response to Re: Jerry Sands and Rubby De La Rosa:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jerry Sands and Rubby De La Rosa : No offense, but I think the Dodgers are insane to make this trade. They're taking on millions and millions of dollars and they're getting an oft-injured left fielder, a washed up pitcher and a very good first baseman.
    Posted by davetheknave[/QUOTE]

    The media is not going to rip these guys apart like the Boston media did.

    I just feel bad for Crawford and Gonzalez, there are some fans here that were willing to give both a chance, but neither guy got off on the right foot , so they became media whipping boys for a team in turmoil , a team short on enthusiasm , long on complacency. Sadly once the media labels players as failures , the bulk of the fan base believes it to be 100% true. Perhaps there is some underlying reason why the Red Sox had to get rid of Adrian. Maybe behind the scenes he is not such a good guy...however, I really would find this hard to believe. I think maybe they don't move Beckett and Crawford without sweetening the pot with Adrian Gonzalez. Of course, players like Punto are plentiful, I imagine the immergence of Ciriaco makes him easily expendable.

    At any rate, although I will miss Gonzalez the most, if this is what it takes to unload Beckett....so be it.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Jerry Sands and Rubby De La Rosa

    In Response to Re: Jerry Sands and Rubby De La Rosa:
    [QUOTE]Webster, "lots of hype short on results" um, based on what? If they didn't get anything back, it would still be a GREAT trade!
    Posted by rightymclefty[/QUOTE]

    Based on his 1.5 WHIP at AA.

    What is it that you love about all this?  Is there somebody you want the Sox to go after now?  Payroll flexibility isn't going to take the mound or step up to the plate - what makes it exciting?
     
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    Re: Jerry Sands and Rubby De La Rosa

    In Response to Re: Jerry Sands and Rubby De La Rosa:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jerry Sands and Rubby De La Rosa : Based on his 1.5 WHIP at AA. What is it that you love about all this?  Is there somebody you want the Sox to go after now?  Payroll flexibility isn't going to take the mound or step up to the plate - what makes it exciting?
    Posted by slomag[/QUOTE]

    Slo, minor league one year stats do not reflect the whole picture.

    I do think we could sign a few FAs, make a deal or two and be as good as this year, but with a brighter future.

    I'd stay away from Hamilton & Greinke, but I'd still rather have both of them than the 3 we just dealt away.

    I'd stay away from Napoli, but might go for Miguel Montero.

    I'd look at McCarthy, Marcum or maybe Sanchez.

    I'd seriously look to trade for Justin Upton and Jamie Shields ($20M/2).

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter55. Show parhunter55's posts

    Re: Jerry Sands and Rubby De La Rosa

    In Response to Re: Jerry Sands and Rubby De La Rosa:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jerry Sands and Rubby De La Rosa : Based on his 1.5 WHIP at AA. What is it that you love about all this?  Is there somebody you want the Sox to go after now?  Payroll flexibility isn't going to take the mound or step up to the plate - what makes it exciting?
    Posted by slomag[/QUOTE]


    Thanks for making my point about Webster.

    And I agree whole-heartedly about payroll flexibility not taking the mound or providing any game winning hits.  Some here would have the Sox go right back out and spend on some big time free agents (someone said they have the chance to do spend that money over again, and do it right this time).  Others, like moon, would be more fiscally responsible and try to buy up many cheaper options.

    Haven't the Sox done all of that since 2007?  The buy low pitchers (remember Smoltz and Penny instead of CC?)?  The high priced FA busts are too numerous to name at this point.  But AGon was not one of them, and I am not completely sold on the idea that Crawford was either.  His wrist injury should have been known to the Sox (maybe if they spent more time looking at the medicals than prying into his private life!?!) and the elbow issue is bum luck, but Crawford looked to be the hitter this team expected to get once his wrist was healed.  And that is not a bad bat to have in the lineup.  Not worth 20 million, certainly, but better than anything the Sox will get for less this off-season.

    My point is that neither way of spending the money is better than the other if done poorly or bad luck prevails.  If you buy 5 decent guys for the price of two all-stars, you still only have a 25 man roster and you end up blocking some young guys from coming up and playing just as well in all likelihood.  If you spend it all on pitching, you take your chances, just as so many teams have.  Philly really wasted a lot.  The Yankees wasted a lot and also got a lot (Burnett vs CC).  Pitching is just too much of a crap shoot to expect large investments to pay long-term dividends.  So the temptation ought to be not to spend that money at all.

    The problem with that is that this team is still mediocre (certainly NOT better off offensively or defensively, and wait and see if the pitching is improved or not) after the salary dump.  The only way to turn things around is to get good starting pitching.  You do that by trade of your best prospects combined with immediate talent that is blocking the path of rookies you want to give the chance to.  Crawford might fit that bill, but AGon does not.  And the pitching the Sox got is questionable.  Webster is not likely to contribute until 2014, if then.  De LaRosa may not even stick in the rotation.  Another 96 mph reliever.  Well, we have a slew of those, and they are easy to obtain.  Not much of a find there. 

    Hopefully the prospects just obtained can be flipped for a real impact starting pitcher.  The Sox already have guys in their system who should rate higher on their depth chart than any of these 4 guys (and in some cases, it is several).

     
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    Re: Jerry Sands and Rubby De La Rosa

    When kids first arrive at AA they work on perfecting their pitches and changing things up...A high WHIP for a first year AA pitcher is not uncommon and certainly doesnt reflect who he really is...
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Jerry Sands and Rubby De La Rosa

    Others, like moon, would be more fiscally responsible and try to buy up many cheaper options.

    Please do not misrepresent my position.

    I was not for the Smoltz/Penny experiment.

    I have continually advocated signing or trading for a top of rotation starter, not more #4 and 5 slot guys.

    I have advocated trading for Shields.

    I was not for dumping Beckett and paying his salary, but I think I'd rather have Greinke than Beckett, and dumping CC made losing AGon worth it.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Jerry Sands and Rubby De La Rosa

    In Response to Re: Jerry Sands and Rubby De La Rosa:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jerry Sands and Rubby De La Rosa : Slo, minor league one year stats do not reflect the whole picture. I do think we could sign a few FAs, make a deal or two and be as good as this year, but with a brighter future. I'd stay away from Hamilton & Greinke, but I'd still rather have both of them than the 3 we just dealt away. I'd stay away from Napoli, but might go for Miguel Montero. I'd look at McCarthy, Marcum or maybe Sanchez. I'd seriously look to trade for Justin Upton and Jamie Shields ($20M/2).
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    OK, so we sign Montero (let's say 5 years / $80M) and the injured McCarthy (about the same?) whose 1.287 WHIP in the AL West does not strike me as an upgrade over Beckett.  Then we trade to get Upton (who is having a very pedestrian season, and is rumored to be a personality problem)($11x4) and Shields (2 x $10).

    So now instead of $55M in salary, we have $53M in salary.  Instead of Crawford we have Upton (IMO that could go either way, but we won't extend Upton until we are convinced he has returned to form, and that means $$).  Instead of Salty we have Montero (significant upgrade).  Instead of Gonzalez we have Jerry Sands or Mauro Gomez (devastating downgrade).  Instead of Beckett we have McCarthy (push, and McCarthy's contract is for five years instead of two years) and we've added James Shields (upgrade, maybe #3 starter?).

    I guess you could argue that's about a push - good job Moon!  Oh, except for two things: 1) There's no guarantee we can get any of these players and 2) Trading for Upton and Shields would completely deplete the farm system!  Just to be maybe as good as we were before, with the same price tag.


     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Jerry Sands and Rubby De La Rosa

    In response to "Re: Jerry Sands and Rubby De La Rosa": [QUOTE]Others, like moon, would be more fiscally responsible and try to buy up many cheaper options. Please do not misrepresent my position. I was not for the Smoltz/Penny experiment. I have continually advocated signing or trading for a top of rotation starter, not more #4 and 5 slot guys. I have advocated trading for Shields. I was not for dumping Beckett and paying his salary, but I think I'd rather have Greinke than Beckett, and dumping CC made losing AGon worth it. Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE] I don't see the Rays trading Shields to a division rival. If they look to move him this off season, there will be plenty of suitors outside of the A.L. East vying for his services.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from rightymclefty. Show rightymclefty's posts

    Re: Jerry Sands and Rubby De La Rosa

    So, Sloman, what should the Sox do? Drop down to AAA?
    If they trade prospects, do you honestly think they'll never be able to draft more players to contribute?
    Shields, Upton and Monteiro solve the problems of catching, right handed power OF, and pitching.
    Stop whining.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Jerry Sands and Rubby De La Rosa

    In response to "Re: Jerry Sands and Rubby De La Rosa": [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jerry Sands and Rubby De La Rosa : Thanks for making my point about Webster. And I agree whole-heartedly about payroll flexibility not taking the mound or providing any game winning hits.  Some here would have the Sox go right back out and spend on some big time free agents (someone said they have the chance to do spend that money over again, and do it right this time).  Others, like moon, would be more fiscally responsible and try to buy up many cheaper options. Haven't the Sox done all of that since 2007?  The buy low pitchers (remember Smoltz and Penny instead of CC?)?  The high priced FA busts are too numerous to name at this point.  But AGon was nout one of them, and I am not completely sold on the idea that Crawford was either.  His wrist injury should have been known to the Sox (maybe if they spent more time looking at the medicals than prying into his private life!?!) and the elbow issue is bum luck, but Crawford looked to be the hitter this team expected to get once his wrist was healed.  And that is not a bad bat to have in the lineup.  Not worth 20 million, certainly, but better than anything the Sox will get for less this off-season. My point is that neither way of spending the money is better than the other if done poorly or bad luck prevails.  If you buy 5 decent guys for the price of two all-stars, you still only have a 25 man roster and you end up blocking some young guys from coming up and playing just as well in all likelihood.  If you spend it all on pitching, you take your chances, just as so many teams have.  Philly really wasted a lot.  The Yankees wasted a lot and also got a lot (Burnett vs CC).  Pitching is just too much of a crap shoot to expect large investments to pay long-term dividends.  So the temptation ought to be not to spend that money at all. The problem with that is that this team is still mediocre (certainly NOT better off offensively or defensively, and wait and see if the pitching is improved or not) after the salary dump.  The only way to turn things around is to get good starting pitching.  You do that by trade of your best prospects combined with immediate talent that is blocking the path of rookies you want to give the chance to.  Crawford might fit that bill, but AGon does not.  And the pitching the Sox got is questionable.  Webster is not likely to contribute until 2014, if then.  De LaRosa may not even stick in the rotation.  Another 96 mph reliever.  Well, we have a slew of those, and they are easy to obtain.  Not much of a find there.  Hopefully the prospects just obtained can be flipped for a real impact starting pitcher.  The Sox already have guys in their system who should rate higher on their depth chart than any of these 4 guys (and in some cases, it is several). Posted by parhunter55[/QUOTE] Parhunter, you're failing to recognize that Crawford and Gonzalez didn't want to be here.
     
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    Re: Jerry Sands and Rubby De La Rosa

    In response to "Re: Jerry Sands and Rubby De La Rosa": [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jerry Sands and Rubby De La Rosa : I agree.  Dumping Beckett on the Dodgers would have been shrewd.  If Crawfor and AGon had to go, then smart baseball people trade them in the off-season, with several teams bidding and a careful evaluation by all involved to determine which prospect package is best.  I am wholly unimpressed with these 4 "prospects."  Webster reminds me of one Casey Kelly--lots of hype, short on results.  De LaRosa reminds me of Ranaudo.  Don't be surprised if 2015 rolls around and none of these 4 has cracked the 25 man roster.  In fact, I hope they are all trade bait for a real pitcher, as I see several better prospects in the Sox system for each one of them. Posted by parhunter55[/QUOTE] 100 percent correct. This is about salary dump and changing team chemistry. The 4 guys coming, glimmers of promise, far from a sure thing.
     
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    Re: Jerry Sands and Rubby De La Rosa

    In Response to Re: Jerry Sands and Rubby De La Rosa:
    [QUOTE]So, Sloman, what should the Sox do? Drop down to AAA? If they trade prospects, do you honestly think they'll never be able to draft more players to contribute? Shields, Upton and Monteiro solve the problems of catching, right handed power OF, and pitching. Stop whining.
    Posted by rightymclefty[/QUOTE]

    They should immediately fire whoever is responsible for this idiotic move.  

    I can tell by your response that logic isn't your strong-suit, but are you basically saying that you approve adding back all the payroll we just shed, plus depleting the farm system in order to be maybe as good as the team we had 24 hours ago?

     
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    Re: Jerry Sands and Rubby De La Rosa

    In Response to Re: Jerry Sands and Rubby De La Rosa:
    [QUOTE]I don't think much of Cherington.  I know that the Sox needed to clean house and reduce salary but the Dodgers made out like bandits here and the Sox have gotten a bunch of mediocrity.
    Posted by joyceand[/QUOTE]

    The 2 pitchers are worth what the RS gave away, let alone the $$$$$$ the picked up and use for more pitching. The Dodgers got a firstbaseman, 2 stiffs, and a p;rayer that Crawford is not finished via in juries.

    A super deal for the Sox.
     

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