Jim Joyce-- now has two of the worst calls in Major League History

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Jim Joyce-- now has two of the worst calls in Major League History

    In response to Thesemenarecowards' comment:

    "He was literally right on the chalk."  Jim Joyce. 


    Not only does he not know what "on the chalk" means but he also does not know what "literally" means.  I look forward to his crying apology.



    ...which will never happen.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Jim Joyce-- now has two of the worst calls in Major League History

    In response to gibsonsg's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to AFNAV130's comment:

    Don't you have to touch the plate period? If you are the winning run on a walk off home run, you have to touch the plate even if the ball is gone. I dunno. He called him safe because he thought he would have scored without being obstructed. Probably nullifies it somehow.



    If a runner fails to touch homeplate, the ump does not make a call. The ump called him safe base on the obstruction call and I guess they don't care if he actually touched hoime or not.

    Interesting point.



    Yeah, I guess they had already awarded him home plate and the game. The throw and play at the plate didn't even matter anymore after the "obstruction".



    But, even if you are "awarded home plate", don't you still have to go through the formality of touching it?

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Jim Joyce-- now has two of the worst calls in Major League History


    People need to stop saying that Middy couldn't get out of the way. Under their rules that doesn't matter. What should be clear is that he WASN'T IN THE WAY TO BEGIN WITH.

    And after all the pics available, and the information out there now, Torre comes back on with the same spiel. He's not only happy with the call, he's going to continue to claim that Middy was blocking the basepath, even if he didn't mean to -- not addressing the problem at all or Craig's determination to get to the mound.

    #appalling

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from gibsonsg. Show gibsonsg's posts

    Re: Jim Joyce-- now has two of the worst calls in Major League History

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to gibsonsg's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to AFNAV130's comment:

    Don't you have to touch the plate period? If you are the winning run on a walk off home run, you have to touch the plate even if the ball is gone. I dunno. He called him safe because he thought he would have scored without being obstructed. Probably nullifies it somehow.



    If a runner fails to touch homeplate, the ump does not make a call. The ump called him safe base on the obstruction call and I guess they don't care if he actually touched hoime or not.

    Interesting point.



    Yeah, I guess they had already awarded him home plate and the game. The throw and play at the plate didn't even matter anymore after the "obstruction".



    But, even if you are "awarded home plate", don't you still have to go through the formality of touching it?




    You would think so, right? So what's the time limit on that after he's actually been tagged out? Five seconds? 30 seconds? Does he have until first pitch tomorrow? Is the ump supposed to just stand there and not make any call until he touches the plate?

    On another note, how awful was Craig's slide? Looks like he might have really messed himself up on that one, especially after having just collided with Middy at 3rd.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Jim Joyce-- now has two of the worst calls in Major League History

    In response to gibsonsg's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to gibsonsg's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to AFNAV130's comment:

    Don't you have to touch the plate period? If you are the winning run on a walk off home run, you have to touch the plate even if the ball is gone. I dunno. He called him safe because he thought he would have scored without being obstructed. Probably nullifies it somehow.



    If a runner fails to touch homeplate, the ump does not make a call. The ump called him safe base on the obstruction call and I guess they don't care if he actually touched hoime or not.

    Interesting point.



    Yeah, I guess they had already awarded him home plate and the game. The throw and play at the plate didn't even matter anymore after the "obstruction".



    But, even if you are "awarded home plate", don't you still have to go through the formality of touching it?




    You would think so, right? So what's the time limit on that after he's actually been tagged out? Five seconds? 30 seconds? Does he have until first pitch tomorrow? Is the ump supposed to just stand there and not make any call until he touches the plate?

    Normally yes, and the no call usually alerts the players to dash towards the plate or the runner, but since the safe call was made, neither did that.

    On another note, how awful was Craig's slide? Looks like he might have really messed himself up on that one, especially after having just collided with Middy at 3rd.




    How slow was he running to home, if he was thrown out on that play?

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from gibsonsg. Show gibsonsg's posts

    Re: Jim Joyce-- now has two of the worst calls in Major League History

    Haven't heard any analysts mention the fact that while Middy was trying to get up Craig was pushing him back down to the ground! Where's the obsctruction on that?! All they talk about is whether Middy lifted his legs up and whether there was intent on his part.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Jim Joyce-- now has two of the worst calls in Major League History

    In response to Dabro's comment:

    This was a very poor call for a very simple reason.  The base runner had a clear path to home plate and chose not to take it.  As he got up from the slide at slird he turned inward and chose to run over Middlebrooks thus inducing the obstruction call.  He had a clear path to home plate and chose not to take it.  He turned inward 2 or 3 feet for no reason and got inside the base line.  Nobody picked this up.  The base runner did not have to take steps to avoid the fielder -- he had a very clear path to home and for whatever reason chose not to take it.  

    The video at about 2:00 suggests no clear path:

    http://wapc.mlb.com/play/?topic_id=28898650&content_id=31185453

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: Jim Joyce-- now has two of the worst calls in Major League History

    just my $.02.. had they deaded the play there's no way to know if they wouldn't have gotten the winner in anyway...the Sox could still have lost(not a sure result either)...even in the face of the rule the best thing may have been to put him on 3B and resume the game...@Kim..if the roles were reversed and the Sox were the beneficiary would you still have accused the ump of "clearly lying"??...during the 2012 season, on this board i once blasted Mark Teixiera for saying the same thing...IMO it's really bad form to accuse an ump of motive.....don't get me wrong Kim, as a Sox fan(you) i totally get your(and the other's anger) but you shouldn't say stuff like that....no judgement of you intended...

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Jim Joyce-- now has two of the worst calls in Major League History

    apparently the obstruction call was issued because the runner was headed back to second base....that's the only way this call wouldve been legit

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hingham Hammer. Show Hingham Hammer's posts

    Re: Jim Joyce-- now has two of the worst calls in Major League History

    In response to jete02fan's comment:

    just my $.02.. had they deaded the play there's no way to know if they wouldn't have gotten the winner in anyway...the Sox could still have lost(not a sure result either)...even in the face of the rule the best thing may have been to put him on 3B and resume the game...@Kim..if the roles were reversed and the Sox were the beneficiary would you still have accused the ump of "clearly lying"??...during the 2012 season, on this board i once blasted Mark Teixiera for saying the same thing...IMO it's really bad form to accuse an ump of motive.....don't get me wrong Kim, as a Sox fan(you) i totally get your(and the other's anger) but you shouldn't say stuff like that....no judgement of you intended...



            GM Jete.

    As a Sox fan I hated to see the call made. But imo it was the correct call. Hill makes a very good point about the runner could have avoided contact with Will. I thought the exact same thing watching replays but bottom line the runner doesn't have to. I would rather focus my attention to how the runner in question reached base, Salty's not so perfect throw and why Ross wasn't in the game, Will's inability to catch the ball on that play and the 2 bagger that went under his glove in the 7th.. I said it months ago. Will has a serious slow reaction to all plays. Not what you want at 3rd.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: Jim Joyce-- now has two of the worst calls in Major League History

    If you look up the rule ..the scenario described is exactly what happened last night. Don't blame this loss on the umps. The Sox defense was terrible over all..except for Pedroia.  Watch the film of Middlebrooks in that play. Is he for real? Why not just hustle up. Instead..he stays on the ground and lifts both of his legs up in the air.  Give me a break....poor play by him and Salty.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Jim Joyce-- now has two of the worst calls in Major League History

    Unfortunately, it was the right call. Yes it was accidental, but by the rule books, it was obstruction.

    Don't blame the umps for Salty's dumb, dumb, dumb play.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: Jim Joyce-- now has two of the worst calls in Major League History

    In response to Hingham Hammer's comment:

    In response to jete02fan's comment:

    just my $.02.. had they deaded the play there's no way to know if they wouldn't have gotten the winner in anyway...the Sox could still have lost(not a sure result either)...even in the face of the rule the best thing may have been to put him on 3B and resume the game...@Kim..if the roles were reversed and the Sox were the beneficiary would you still have accused the ump of "clearly lying"??...during the 2012 season, on this board i once blasted Mark Teixiera for saying the same thing...IMO it's really bad form to accuse an ump of motive.....don't get me wrong Kim, as a Sox fan(you) i totally get your(and the other's anger) but you shouldn't say stuff like that....no judgement of you intended...



            GM Jete.

    As a Sox fan I hated to see the call made. But imo it was the correct call. Hill makes a very good point about the runner could have avoided contact with Will. I thought the exact same thing watching replays but bottom line the runner doesn't have to. I would rather focus my attention to how the runner in question reached base, Salty's not so perfect throw and why Ross wasn't in the game, Will's inability to catch the ball on that play and the 2 bagger that went under his glove in the 7th.. I said it months ago. Will has a serious slow reaction to all plays. Not what you want at 3rd.

    Morning 2H..i can agree with that..at the end of the day though...given it's the WS, that's a rough time to call it no matter who the bene is..even a non call would have been as rough...to me,Salty's throw looked to be a product of body postioning and maybe half rushing it...having to spin, sailed his throw towards the runner, which clearly led to Middy's predicament..(can't fault him for having to dive) we've all played the game and know the catcher is taught to throw to the bag...i felt for Salty too.. i still think the Sox will win G4(probably big)


     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: Jim Joyce-- now has two of the worst calls in Major League History

    In response to ADG's comment:

    Unfortunately, it was the right call. Yes it was accidental, but by the rule books, it was obstruction.

    Don't blame the umps for Salty's dumb, dumb, dumb play.

    adg, that's a little harsh..the execution was off....i know this has no relevance(now), but if he throws it to the bag, and Middy muffs it(with the same result)..is it still a dumb play??


     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Jim Joyce-- now has two of the worst calls in Major League History

    In response to Yaso#7's comment:

    One takes a perfect game away from a pitcher--  another decides a World Series game.

    1st the contact was initiad by Craig

    2nd Middlebrooks has the right to try to get up

    3rd as stated  in an earler thread--- you have to be in the baseline to obstruct unless it was something blatant which that was by no means not even close.



    Wrong on all counts.  Joyce made the right call.

     

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from donrd4. Show donrd4's posts

    Re: Jim Joyce-- now has two of the worst calls in Major League History

    In response to Yaso#7's comment:

    One takes a perfect game away from a pitcher--  another decides a World Series game.

    1st the contact was initiad by Craig

    2nd Middlebrooks has the right to try to get up

    3rd as stated  in an earler thread--- you have to be in the baseline to obstruct unless it was something blatant which that was by no means not even close.



    Your WRONG !!! Right call .... Had it been Sox who scored on that call ???? You bet your sweet AZZ .. You would have said great call......

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from donrd4. Show donrd4's posts

    Re: Jim Joyce-- now has two of the worst calls in Major League History

    In response to Yaso#7's comment:

    In response to DirtyWaterLover's comment:

    Why?  He made the right call.  The runner tripped over a player lying across the base path.  It's obstruction.  Unless the player is fielding a ball, the base path belongs to the runner.

    Salty wears the horns for the loss.  Make a better throw and the player is out at 3rd.

     




    The Runner initiated the contact and tripped without any assistence from Middlebrooks.

     Yes !! why do you think runner tripped? Was there someone blocking his progress.... Yes !!  die hard sox fan here says right call......

     




     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from user_3952186. Show user_3952186's posts

    Re: Jim Joyce-- now has two of the worst calls in Major League History

    In response to DirtyWaterLover's comment:

    Why?  He made the right call.  The runner tripped over a player lying across the base path.  It's obstruction.  Unless the player is fielding a ball, the base path belongs to the runner.

    Salty wears the horns for the loss.  Make a better throw and the player is out at 3rd.

     



    How should the call be made if the runner goes backwards on the baseline? Craig went to the SS side of the bag, going to a space he already occupied and in so doing initiated the contact. Not saying there wasn't interference but I would tend to believe the rule is based on the fielder initiating the contact/interference, not the runner.

    The call was made but I dont think it was the right call.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Jim Joyce-- now has two of the worst calls in Major League History

    In response to user_3952186's comment:

    In response to DirtyWaterLover's comment:

    Why?  He made the right call.  The runner tripped over a player lying across the base path.  It's obstruction.  Unless the player is fielding a ball, the base path belongs to the runner.

    Salty wears the horns for the loss.  Make a better throw and the player is out at 3rd.

     



    How should the call be made if the runner goes backwards on the baseline? Craig went to the SS side of the bag, going to a space he already occupied and in so doing initiated the contact. Not saying there wasn't interference but I would tend to believe the rule is based on the fielder initiating the contact/interference, not the runner.

    The call was made but I dont think it was the right call.




    Rule 2.00 defines obstruction as a fielder impeding any runner.  Nothing bout baselines.   Nothing abut fielder's right to get get up.  Basically, like most rules, a lot is left up to the umpire, and Joyce felt Middlebrooks impeding Craig. 

     

    And he might not have called it a such had Middlebrooks not lifted his lower legs, tripping Craig, but that is speculation.

     

    Most baseball defintions are more vague than people realize...

     

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Jim Joyce-- now has two of the worst calls in Major League History

    In response to notin's comment:

    In response to user_3952186's comment:

    In response to DirtyWaterLover's comment:

    Why?  He made the right call.  The runner tripped over a player lying across the base path.  It's obstruction.  Unless the player is fielding a ball, the base path belongs to the runner.

    Salty wears the horns for the loss.  Make a better throw and the player is out at 3rd.

     



    How should the call be made if the runner goes backwards on the baseline? Craig went to the SS side of the bag, going to a space he already occupied and in so doing initiated the contact. Not saying there wasn't interference but I would tend to believe the rule is based on the fielder initiating the contact/interference, not the runner.

    The call was made but I dont think it was the right call.




    Rule 2.00 defines obstruction as a fielder impeding any runner.  Nothing bout baselines.   Nothing abut fielder's right to get get up.  Basically, like most rules, a lot is left up to the umpire, and Joyce felt Middlebrooks impeding Craig. 

     

    And he might not have called it a such had Middlebrooks not lifted his lower legs, tripping Craig, but that is speculation.

     

    Most baseball defintions are more vague than people realize...

     

     



    Notin, after watching the replay several times, when Craig tripped, MWB legs were straight on the ground. The rule is vague. This play will force MLB address it during the offseason, for more clarification. 

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxfan94. Show redsoxfan94's posts

    Re: Jim Joyce-- now has two of the worst calls in Major League History

    absolutely awful call, but i will say that salty is just as responsible for this as the ump. that throw was terrible.

     
  22. This post has been removed.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Jim Joyce-- now has two of the worst calls in Major League History

    In response to notin's comment:

    In response to user_3952186's comment:

    In response to DirtyWaterLover's comment:

    Why?  He made the right call.  The runner tripped over a player lying across the base path.  It's obstruction.  Unless the player is fielding a ball, the base path belongs to the runner.

    Salty wears the horns for the loss.  Make a better throw and the player is out at 3rd.

     



    How should the call be made if the runner goes backwards on the baseline? Craig went to the SS side of the bag, going to a space he already occupied and in so doing initiated the contact. Not saying there wasn't interference but I would tend to believe the rule is based on the fielder initiating the contact/interference, not the runner.

    The call was made but I dont think it was the right call.




    Rule 2.00 defines obstruction as a fielder impeding any runner.  Nothing bout baselines.   Nothing abut fielder's right to get get up.  Basically, like most rules, a lot is left up to the umpire, and Joyce felt Middlebrooks impeding Craig. 

     

    And he might not have called it a such had Middlebrooks not lifted his lower legs, tripping Craig, but that is speculation.

     

    Most baseball defintions are more vague than people realize...

     

     



    How vague is the runner choosing to run out of the baseline to force the contact?

    Can he run to the pitchers mound, collide with the pitchers, fall down, and cry "Obstruction"?

    Craig clearly took a step towards 2B, and then turned to home. Middy was out of his way, had Craig not chosen the path of most resistance.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Jim Joyce-- now has two of the worst calls in Major League History

    The 'letter of the law' argument is a convenient rationalization to excuse the umpires for not using discretion.  It is the winning run in a World Series game, let the players decide it.

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Jim Joyce-- now has two of the worst calls in Major League History

    don't forget, he robbed

    Armando Galarraga

    of a perfect game


    What's that rule again, Jim?  oh yeah  - 3 strikes and you're out!!!!!!

     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share