Jim Joyce-- now has two of the worst calls in Major League History

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Jim Joyce-- now has two of the worst calls in Major League History

    So glad Middy was interviewed and it sounded exactly like what the video shows. He's the only one so far who has said what actually happened.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Jim Joyce-- now has two of the worst calls in Major League History

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to Thesemenarecowards' comment:

    The rush of Torre and the talking heads to tell us this was the right call is infuriating.  It was not the right call.  Joyce said that Craig was "On the chalk".  That is utter BS. 

     



    And, nobody questioned Torre of Joyce about the fact that the runner was not within the baseline when he tripped over Middy.

    It's like a batter hitting a grounder to the SS, running towards the pitcher, tripping over him, and getting awarded 1b on obstruction.

    OK, it wasn't that extreme, but the fcats remain equal. The runner was out of the baseline when attempting to go from 3B to home. The fact that Middy was laying on the ground out of the baseline has nothing to do with obstruction.

    They are reading a rule in a vacumn and assuming the runner was in the baseline. He was not. His first step towards home was on the IF grass.

    If the ball had rolled 4 feet in front of Middy, and Middy tried to get up to field it, they could have called the runner out for interfering with the fielder!




    If Craig gets up and steps to his right, he is clear of Middlebrooks.  Apparently the runner has no responsibility to avoid initiating contact.  The fact that Joyce said Craig was "on the chalk" is very troubling.  I really hope the media doesn't sweep that quote under the rug.

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from AFNAV130. Show AFNAV130's posts

    Re: Jim Joyce-- now has two of the worst calls in Major League History

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to Thesemenarecowards' comment:

    The rush of Torre and the talking heads to tell us this was the right call is infuriating.  It was not the right call.  Joyce said that Craig was "On the chalk".  That is utter BS. 

     



    And, nobody questioned Torre of Joyce about the fact that the runner was not within the baseline when he tripped over Middy.

    It's like a batter hitting a grounder to the SS, running towards the pitcher, tripping over him, and getting awarded 1b on obstruction.

    OK, it wasn't that extreme, but the fcats remain equal. The runner was out of the baseline when attempting to go from 3B to home. The fact that Middy was laying on the ground out of the baseline has nothing to do with obstruction.

    They are reading a rule in a vacumn and assuming the runner was in the baseline. He was not. His first step towards home was on the IF grass.

    If the ball had rolled 4 feet in front of Middy, and Middy tried to get up to field it, they could have called the runner out for interfering with the fielder!



    And to hear all the p****** agreeing makes me sick. The talking heads who must be on the payroll, NESN, CSNNE etc is mind numbing. It is so blatantly the wrong call it's unreal that they made it. When asked what Middlebrooks could have done, the umpires had nothing. Maybe you should go ask him they said.  And, well he could have not obstructed. Now I know I have a lowly bachelors degree, but I'm pretty sure you should have an answer as the umpire. Why didnt they have one? Because there isn't one. It wasn't Craig's fault or Middlebrooks fault. It was the umpires and their inability to just let a play run out. To not put themselves front and center. Again. When asked what Middy should have done, nothing. Not answer. Tells you everything you need to know.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Jim Joyce-- now has two of the worst calls in Major League History

    In response to Thesemenarecowards' comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to Thesemenarecowards' comment:

    The rush of Torre and the talking heads to tell us this was the right call is infuriating.  It was not the right call.  Joyce said that Craig was "On the chalk".  That is utter BS. 

     



    And, nobody questioned Torre of Joyce about the fact that the runner was not within the baseline when he tripped over Middy.

    It's like a batter hitting a grounder to the SS, running towards the pitcher, tripping over him, and getting awarded 1b on obstruction.

    OK, it wasn't that extreme, but the fcats remain equal. The runner was out of the baseline when attempting to go from 3B to home. The fact that Middy was laying on the ground out of the baseline has nothing to do with obstruction.

    They are reading a rule in a vacumn and assuming the runner was in the baseline. He was not. His first step towards home was on the IF grass.

    If the ball had rolled 4 feet in front of Middy, and Middy tried to get up to field it, they could have called the runner out for interfering with the fielder!




    If Craig gets up and steps to his right, he is clear of Middlebrooks.  Apparently the runner has no responsibility to avoid initiating contact.  The fact that Joyce said Craig was "on the chalk" is very troubling.  I really hope the media doesn't sweep that quote under the rug.

     



    I want to see Joyce and Torre watch the right angle of the play and say Craig was in the baseline or did not intiate the contact by choosing a circuiticious route from 3B to home, instead of the clear path before him.

    I doubt it ever happens.

    Where are the resposible and alert reporters?

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Jim Joyce-- now has two of the worst calls in Major League History

    They just said on MLB that the call was made regardless of whether Middy was in the basepath or not. What? How can that not matter in a call SPECIFICALLY made for that reason alone? Are these guys sober or even conscious?

    Jim Joyce, Dan DeMuth, et. al also knew that the Cardinals closer was out of the game, they LOVED making that call. It's just great thinking these clowns will also be in the next games because nothing they do will ever warrant them being removed.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Jim Joyce-- now has two of the worst calls in Major League History

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:

    They just said on MLB that the call was made regardless of whether Middy was in the basepath or not. What? How can that not matter in a call SPECIFICALLY made for that reason alone? Are these guys sober or even conscious?

    Jim Joyce, Dan DeMuth, et. al also knew that the Cardinals closer was out of the game, they LOVED making that call. It's just great thinking these clowns will also be in the next games because nothing they do will ever warrant them being removed.




    I heard Schilling say that Craig gets to "Choose his own basepath".  Fine but if he chooses the one that goes through the guy laying on the ground, isn't that his problem?  I guess not.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Jim Joyce-- now has two of the worst calls in Major League History

    Having Joe Torre step in the press conference with his buffoons only makes it more shady IMO. A guy protecting his legacy. The last thing Torre wants to see is another Sox championship. He almost seemed giddy, especially for a guy who's usually half asleep. This call apparently perked him up.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Jim Joyce-- now has two of the worst calls in Major League History

    The way the rule is written, if Middy was laying in the baseline and was in the runners way, it would have been obstruction. The umps did get that part right. The rule doesn't allow for the fact that the fielder could not possibly get out of a runners way unless he vaporized into thin air. That's the unfortunate part of the rule, but it is what it is.

    What has been missed on this call was that Craig did not get up from 3B and run straight to home. He got up and took a step towards 2B, thereby putting Middy between him and home. He was clearly out of the baseline between 3B and home. Middy lifting his feet actually cleared more space in the actual baseline between 3b and home plate. 

    Looking closely at the hundreds of replays shows that Craig actually did not even touch Middy's raised feet as all of the blind announcers and reprters seeemd to think he had. He missed his lifted feet, but apparently tripped over middy's prone body that was laying toally between 3B and 2B not 3B and home plate.

    It's clear as day. Bad call. Tough loss.

    On to the next game.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Jim Joyce-- now has two of the worst calls in Major League History

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:

    Having Joe Torre step in the press conference with his buffoons only makes it more shady IMO. A guy protecting his legacy. The last thing Torre wants to see is another Sox championship. He almost seemed giddy, especially for a guy who's usually half asleep. This call apparently perked him up.




    Torre, himself a Cardinal and a Yankee, telling me the Red Sox didn't just get screwed..... No sale.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from AFNAV130. Show AFNAV130's posts

    Re: Jim Joyce-- now has two of the worst calls in Major League History

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to Thesemenarecowards' comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to Thesemenarecowards' comment:

    The rush of Torre and the talking heads to tell us this was the right call is infuriating.  It was not the right call.  Joyce said that Craig was "On the chalk".  That is utter BS. 

     



    And, nobody questioned Torre of Joyce about the fact that the runner was not within the baseline when he tripped over Middy.

    It's like a batter hitting a grounder to the SS, running towards the pitcher, tripping over him, and getting awarded 1b on obstruction.

    OK, it wasn't that extreme, but the fcats remain equal. The runner was out of the baseline when attempting to go from 3B to home. The fact that Middy was laying on the ground out of the baseline has nothing to do with obstruction.

    They are reading a rule in a vacumn and assuming the runner was in the baseline. He was not. His first step towards home was on the IF grass.

    If the ball had rolled 4 feet in front of Middy, and Middy tried to get up to field it, they could have called the runner out for interfering with the fielder!




    If Craig gets up and steps to his right, he is clear of Middlebrooks.  Apparently the runner has no responsibility to avoid initiating contact.  The fact that Joyce said Craig was "on the chalk" is very troubling.  I really hope the media doesn't sweep that quote under the rug.

     



    I want to see Joyce and Torre watch the right angle of the play and say Craig was in the baseline or did not intiate the contact by choosing a circuiticious route from 3B to home, instead of the clear path before him.

    I doubt it ever happens.

    Where are the resposible and alert reporters?



    There aren't any. Sorry. You won't find one anywhere. Those that would be, either change or are ushered out quickly. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Jim Joyce-- now has two of the worst calls in Major League History

    In response to Thesemenarecowards' comment:

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:

    They just said on MLB that the call was made regardless of whether Middy was in the basepath or not. What? How can that not matter in a call SPECIFICALLY made for that reason alone? Are these guys sober or even conscious?

    Jim Joyce, Dan DeMuth, et. al also knew that the Cardinals closer was out of the game, they LOVED making that call. It's just great thinking these clowns will also be in the next games because nothing they do will ever warrant them being removed.




    I heard Schilling say that Craig gets to "Choose his own basepath".  Fine but if he chooses the one that goes through the guy laying on the ground, isn't that his problem?  I guess not.



    Where does it say in the rule book that a runner can choose to initate contact with a fielder outside of the basepath?

    Schilling already proved he doesn't know the rules by saying "intent" was part of the rule, then admitting he was clueless.

    Nobody on TV has even mentioned the fact that Craig was not "on the chalk" as Joyce claimed he was. Nobody has even raised the question that Craig was not in the baseline to home.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from AlexFilides. Show AlexFilides's posts

    Re: Jim Joyce-- now has two of the worst calls in Major League History

    Did anyone actually take note that the winning run that scored for the Cards, never actually touched home plate? Even with the obstruction call, that's still an appealable play.

     The problem is, he called him safe, so not sure how that would come into play.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Jim Joyce-- now has two of the worst calls in Major League History

    In response to AlexFilides' comment:

    Did anyone actually take note that the winning run that scored for the Cards, never actually touched home plate? Even with the obstruction call, that's still an appealable play.

     




    I honestly wondered about that.... is it really appealable?

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from AFNAV130. Show AFNAV130's posts

    Re: Jim Joyce-- now has two of the worst calls in Major League History

    In response to AlexFilides' comment:

    Did anyone actually take note that the winning run that scored for the Cards, never actually touched home plate? Even with the obstruction call, that's still an appealable play.

     



    Is this true? Does anyone know he never did at any point? I'll have to watch all the video. If he didn't then no, the run doesn't count. Did he after the other player ran onto the field?

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Jim Joyce-- now has two of the worst calls in Major League History

    "He was literally right on the chalk."  Jim Joyce. 


    Not only does he not know what "on the chalk" means but he also does not know what "literally" means.  I look forward to his crying apology.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Jim Joyce-- now has two of the worst calls in Major League History

    They have a pic on Twitter #redsox that shows the play with him climbing over Middy, and Joyce is NOT EVEN LOOKING AT THEM. HE'S LOOKING AT THE BALL GOING TOWARDS THE OUTFIELD. UNFREAKENBELIEVABLE.

    Thank god for Twitter. This call will go down as one of the worst in baseball playoff history. We don't have to listen to Torre and his corrupt umpires. The pics are getting better, and they're out there. You no longer own the truth about what happens in any game.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from AlexFilides. Show AlexFilides's posts

    Re: Jim Joyce-- now has two of the worst calls in Major League History

    In response to Thesemenarecowards' comment:

    In response to AlexFilides' comment:

    Did anyone actually take note that the winning run that scored for the Cards, never actually touched home plate? Even with the obstruction call, that's still an appealable play.

     




    I honestly wondered about that.... is it really appealable?




    It's certainly is, despite being awarded home plate, he still needs to touch it.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from AFNAV130. Show AFNAV130's posts

    Re: Jim Joyce-- now has two of the worst calls in Major League History

    Don't you have to touch the plate period? If you are the winning run on a walk off home run, you have to touch the plate even if the ball is gone. I dunno. He called him safe because he thought he would have scored without being obstructed. Probably nullifies it somehow.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from gibsonsg. Show gibsonsg's posts

    Re: Jim Joyce-- now has two of the worst calls in Major League History

    The guys on MLB Radio were both saying it was a bad call, that there was no way for Middy to get out of the way. Really, what is he supposed to do in that situation? But they also discussed the baseline part, and said that by rule once the throw gets past the base and the fielder is no longer actually making a play on the runner then the baseline is no longer in consideration, so I assume it wouldn't really matter if the runner was on the chalk or not. It's the same way that a runner can take a wide turn while rounding a base and be way outside of the chalk line on his way to the next base, and that it is the fielder's responsibility to get out of the way and not impede his advance in any way. But then the question becomes how far out of the baseline can a runner actually go if there's no play being made on him?

    Also, the rule says if the fielder has interfered with the runner in any way in this instance then he has "likely" obstructed, regardless of intent. But "likely" makes it sound like there must be room for the umps to make a judgment call, and clearly in this case they used poor judgment!

    Tough loss to say the least, but this team has bounced back every time so far! Let's win tomorrow!

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from AlexFilides. Show AlexFilides's posts

    Re: Jim Joyce-- now has two of the worst calls in Major League History

    In response to AFNAV130's comment:

    Don't you have to touch the plate period? If you are the winning run on a walk off home run, you have to touch the plate even if the ball is gone. I dunno. He called him safe because he thought he would have scored without being obstructed. Probably nullifies it somehow.




    From my understanding, once the 9th defensive player walks past the other side of the foul line, the next inning has started or in this case, the game is over and you lose your right to appeal. It's appealable, not protestable.

     

    And yes, that's correct, he still needed to touch home plate! It wasn't the obstruction call he got incorrect, it was the safe signal that he blew.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Jim Joyce-- now has two of the worst calls in Major League History

    In response to AFNAV130's comment:

    Don't you have to touch the plate period? If you are the winning run on a walk off home run, you have to touch the plate even if the ball is gone. I dunno. He called him safe because he thought he would have scored without being obstructed. Probably nullifies it somehow.



    If a runner fails to touch homeplate, the ump does not make a call. The ump called him safe base on the obstruction call and I guess they don't care if he actually touched hoime or not.

    Interesting point.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from soups. Show soups's posts

    Re: Jim Joyce-- now has two of the worst calls in Major League History

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    The way the rule is written, if Middy was laying in the baseline and was in the runners way, it would have been obstruction. The umps did get that part right. The rule doesn't allow for the fact that the fielder could not possibly get out of a runners way unless he vaporized into thin air. That's the unfortunate part of the rule, but it is what it is.

    What has been missed on this call was that Craig did not get up from 3B and run straight to home. He got up and took a step towards 2B, thereby putting Middy between him and home. He was clearly out of the baseline between 3B and home. Middy lifting his feet actually cleared more space in the actual baseline between 3b and home plate. 

    Looking closely at the hundreds of replays shows that Craig actually did not even touch Middy's raised feet as all of the blind announcers and reprters seeemd to think he had. He missed his lifted feet, but apparently tripped over middy's prone body that was laying toally between 3B and 2B not 3B and home plate.

    It's clear as day. Bad call. Tough loss.

    On to the next game.

    Wait...if that's the case, then Craig would also have had to tag third again before proceeding to home.  He didn't.  That needs to be looked at, too.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Jim Joyce-- now has two of the worst calls in Major League History

    In response to Thesemenarecowards' comment:

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:

    Having Joe Torre step in the press conference with his buffoons only makes it more shady IMO. A guy protecting his legacy. The last thing Torre wants to see is another Sox championship. He almost seemed giddy, especially for a guy who's usually half asleep. This call apparently perked him up.




    Torre, himself a Cardinal and a Yankee, telling me the Red Sox didn't just get screwed..... No sale.



    No one on Twitter is buying it. And that's the universe talking. There are even more pics showing Middy wasn't blocking the basepath. All these 1,000 year umpires wouldn't even consider the modern age of showing a different story. They can talk all day. This will go down as an awful call, and they just look like morons talking about "getting it right".

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Jim Joyce-- now has two of the worst calls in Major League History

    In response to Thesemenarecowards' comment:

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:

    They just said on MLB that the call was made regardless of whether Middy was in the basepath or not. What? How can that not matter in a call SPECIFICALLY made for that reason alone? Are these guys sober or even conscious?

    Jim Joyce, Dan DeMuth, et. al also knew that the Cardinals closer was out of the game, they LOVED making that call. It's just great thinking these clowns will also be in the next games because nothing they do will ever warrant them being removed.




    I heard Schilling say that Craig gets to "Choose his own basepath".  Fine but if he chooses the one that goes through the guy laying on the ground, isn't that his problem?  I guess not.



    And choosing a path to the pitcher's mound apparently isn't a problem either. Craig has the whole field to choose from. Lucky guy.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from gibsonsg. Show gibsonsg's posts

    Re: Jim Joyce-- now has two of the worst calls in Major League History

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to AFNAV130's comment:

    Don't you have to touch the plate period? If you are the winning run on a walk off home run, you have to touch the plate even if the ball is gone. I dunno. He called him safe because he thought he would have scored without being obstructed. Probably nullifies it somehow.



    If a runner fails to touch homeplate, the ump does not make a call. The ump called him safe base on the obstruction call and I guess they don't care if he actually touched hoime or not.

    Interesting point.



    Yeah, I guess they had already awarded him home plate and the game. The throw and play at the plate didn't even matter anymore after the "obstruction".

     
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