Jim Rice to "BIG PAPI"............

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Jim Rice to

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to miscricket's comment:

     

    Good advice from Jim.  For sure...he knew when it was time to shut it down. I love baseball..but to me there are few things in sports sadder than someone who doesn't know when to let go. I like to see people go out on top..but that's my preference. I think Ortiz should have retired after last season.

    I think the whole Ortiz controversy is nothing but fodder in the sense that it's not very relevent to the team. The Sox season is doing going to hang on whether Ortiz is healthy or not.  Ortiz is part of a dying breed. If his achilles heals completely ( I doubt it ever will) then he could have an okay season...but anyone who is looking for big numbers from Big Papi is living in a dreamworld.

     




    There was no reason to retire. Before he got hurt he was having a triple crown season. Should Mo have retired after hurting his knee last year too? Each player decides when its right for them. Papi's numbers didnt suggest his time has passed yet...

     




    people forget that he was top in the league in OPS when he got injured... he is not done.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Jim Rice to

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to miscricket's comment:

     

    Good advice from Jim.  For sure...he knew when it was time to shut it down. I love baseball..but to me there are few things in sports sadder than someone who doesn't know when to let go. I like to see people go out on top..but that's my preference. I think Ortiz should have retired after last season.

    I think the whole Ortiz controversy is nothing but fodder in the sense that it's not very relevent to the team. The Sox season is doing going to hang on whether Ortiz is healthy or not.  Ortiz is part of a dying breed. If his achilles heals completely ( I doubt it ever will) then he could have an okay season...but anyone who is looking for big numbers from Big Papi is living in a dreamworld.

     




    There was no reason to retire. Before he got hurt he was having a triple crown season. Should Mo have retired after hurting his knee last year too? Each player decides when its right for them. Papi's numbers didnt suggest his time has passed yet...

     

     




    people forget that he was top in the league in OPS when he got injured... he is not done.

     



    Of course not.  But obviously it feels very empowering for some to proclaim him done.

     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Jim Rice to

    In response to jackbu's comment:

    In response to miscricket's comment:

     

    Good advice from Jim.  For sure...he knew when it was time to shut it down. I love baseball..but to me there are few things in sports sadder than someone who doesn't know when to let go. I like to see people go out on top..but that's my preference. I think Ortiz should have retired after last season.

    I think the whole Ortiz controversy is nothing but fodder in the sense that it's not very relevent to the team. The Sox season is doing going to hang on whether Ortiz is healthy or not.  Ortiz is part of a dying breed. If his achilles heals completely ( I doubt it ever will) then he could have an okay season...but anyone who is looking for big numbers from Big Papi is living in a dreamworld.

     




     

    You should check out Jim Rice's stats for his last three seasons and think again about whether or not he knew when to retire.  If Rice had not played that last season, he would had retire with an average above .300, and many think this would have sent him to the hall faster.

    I loved Jim Rice and would have paid to see him another year or so.  But he did not know when to retire and the only reason he did retire, was that there were virtually no offers after the 89 season.



    Sure Rice knew when to retire. You should do more than just look at numbers.

    Last three seasons:

    Rice's numbers fell off a bit in 1987 when he battled injuries and played in just 108 games. He was on pace for about 20 HRs and 90 RBIs had he played his nomral 150-plus games. And his .277 BA that year was respectable and consider this. He was batting .177 on May 23 then got hot and was batting .303 a month and a half later on July 29.

    In 1988, he fell off a bit more but 15 HR, 72 RBI is productive. He was fourth on the team in homers and fourth in RBIs.

    Just because a player isn't putting up the same numbers he did in his prime, it doesn't mean he should retire.

    And consider this for 1988: He started slow with 0 HR and 13 RBIs through May. In the last four months, he hit 15 HRS with 59 RBIs, including 5 HR, 15 RBI in September (good numbers) and an .822 OPS in the second half of the season. So why should he have thought about retirement then?

    As for 1989, as I recall, although I might be wrong, he had a good spring training. Regardless, he got off to an excellent start, batting .291 with 3 HR, 16 RBIs in April -- an 18-HR, 96-RBI pace. It was May on when the injuries and eyesight really took its toll.

     

     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Jim Rice to

    In response to jackbu's comment:

    In response to royf19's comment:

     

    In response to jackbu's comment:

     

    In response to miscricket's comment:

     

    Good advice from Jim.  For sure...he knew when it was time to shut it down. I love baseball..but to me there are few things in sports sadder than someone who doesn't know when to let go. I like to see people go out on top..but that's my preference. I think Ortiz should have retired after last season.

    I think the whole Ortiz controversy is nothing but fodder in the sense that it's not very relevent to the team. The Sox season is doing going to hang on whether Ortiz is healthy or not.  Ortiz is part of a dying breed. If his achilles heals completely ( I doubt it ever will) then he could have an okay season...but anyone who is looking for big numbers from Big Papi is living in a dreamworld.

     




     

    You should check out Jim Rice's stats for his last three seasons and think again about whether or not he knew when to retire.  If Rice had not played that last season, he would had retire with an average above .300, and many think this would have sent him to the hall faster.

    I loved Jim Rice and would have paid to see him another year or so.  But he did not know when to retire and the only reason he did retire, was that there were virtually no offers after the 89 season.

     



    Sure Rice knew when to retire. You should do more than just look at numbers.

     

    Last three seasons:

    Rice's numbers fell off a bit in 1987 when he battled injuries and played in just 108 games. He was on pace for about 20 HRs and 90 RBIs had he played his nomral 150-plus games. And his .277 BA that year was respectable and consider this. He was batting .177 on May 23 then got hot and was batting .303 a month and a half later on July 29.

    In 1988, he fell off a bit more but 15 HR, 72 RBI is productive. He was fourth on the team in homers and fourth in RBIs.

    Just because a player isn't putting up the same numbers he did in his prime, it doesn't mean he should retire.

    And consider this for 1988: He started slow with 0 HR and 13 RBIs through May. In the last four months, he hit 15 HRS with 59 RBIs, including 5 HR, 15 RBI in September (good numbers) and an .822 OPS in the second half of the season. So why should he have thought about retirement then?

    As for 1989, as I recall, although I might be wrong, he had a good spring training. Regardless, he got off to an excellent start, batting .291 with 3 HR, 16 RBIs in April -- an 18-HR, 96-RBI pace. It was May on when the injuries and eyesight really took its toll.

     

     




     

    There seems to be many on this site who want to gives awards for what could had been only if the player did not get injured.  Jim had a hard time seeing the ball the last few seasons.  He slowed done and wasn't feared as he once was.   Regardless of the numbers of which you think were great, it was tough watching him at the plate.

    Even if you think he should have stuck around, there were no offers from anyone after the 89 season.



    Do you have a problem with reading comprehension? I could recommend a good tutor.

    I never said his numbers were great in his last three years. I said, specifically for 1987 and 1988, that he was productive even if he wasn't in his prime and that his numbers dropped. There's a difference.

    Just because he slowed down and wasn't "feared" it doesn't mean he still couldn't help the team. The Sox did win the AL East in 1988.

    And where did I say he should have stuck around after 1989? Having trouble with that reading comprehension stuff again?

    After 1988, yeah, I had no problem with him coming back in 1989. He finished the year strong and had an excellent (not great) month of April in 1989.

    Careers aren't always on a straight line up and a straight line down. Look at Yaz. In 1975, he hit just .269 with just 14 HRs and 60 RBIs. I guess you would have been one to say it was time for him to retire. He was 36 after all. Then look what he did in the next three years.

    Oh -- and who is giving awards for injuries? My only point about injuries was in 1987, when he was in the lineup, he was productive -- PRODUCTIVE, NOT GREAT (have someone explain the diference) -- but he played just 108 games because of injuries. I guess by your reasoning, he should have retired after 1986 because he should have know that in 1987, he would be hurt.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Jim Rice to

    Bill there is one phrase you fail to understand: 

    "better living through chemistry" 

    If there's one thing Poppy knows it's his pharmaceuticals. He will mix and match and drug his way to a couple more productive seasons. He's way too high on your worry list. Worry about the average starting pitching instead.

    Jim Rice had no access to this kind of athletic medicine so your comparison to Rice is irrelevant. 

    Stop it with the "only I tell it like it is" crud. 

    You're making a prediction just as many do, and sports is all about unpredictability. That's why we watch. Others have different predictions than yours. Doesn't mean that you are reality based and they are not. 

     

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: Jim Rice to

    In response to jackbu's comment:

    In response to miscricket's comment:

     

    Good advice from Jim.  For sure...he knew when it was time to shut it down. I love baseball..but to me there are few things in sports sadder than someone who doesn't know when to let go. I like to see people go out on top..but that's my preference. I think Ortiz should have retired after last season.

    I think the whole Ortiz controversy is nothing but fodder in the sense that it's not very relevent to the team. The Sox season is doing going to hang on whether Ortiz is healthy or not.  Ortiz is part of a dying breed. If his achilles heals completely ( I doubt it ever will) then he could have an okay season...but anyone who is looking for big numbers from Big Papi is living in a dreamworld.

     




     

    You should check out Jim Rice's stats for his last three seasons and think again about whether or not he knew when to retire.  If Rice had not played that last season, he would had retire with an average above .300, and many think this would have sent him to the hall faster.

    I loved Jim Rice and would have paid to see him another year or so.  But he did not know when to retire and the only reason he did retire, was that there were virtually no offers after the 89 season.



    Mea culpa. I should have checked out his stats to be sure before making the statement...I was going by memory of how disappointed I was when he called it quits..but I was too young to care about stats. However...now that I have looked at the stats I see you are correct in that he should maybe have called it quits before the last season...wow..his numbers were not good that last year!

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Jim Rice to

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

    In response to SpacemanEephus's comment:

     

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

     

      "SON, YOU WILL KNOW WHEN IT'S OVER"   !!!!  

     



    Gotta say Bill, I am surprised at how much bad energy you are directing towards Papi.  Kinda weird really.  Even if his achilles is toast and he is DOA this year, it is strange for a good natured fella such as yourself to spend so much time harping on him.  Bad juju.  I am sure Dad does not approve.

     

     

    Space.....  As I have said, I am a PAPI fan and certainly understand what he has ment to the TEAM...... BUUUUTTT,  the way most posters & even management are "AVOIDING" the facts bothers me......  I sure hope Ben &  J F have a plan B C D E and im sure they do !!!  I continue to think that the $ox will go undefeated in 2013 and win it all, again !!!

     




    Bill, I challenge you to give 3 facts about anything baseball-related.  Anything at all.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: Jim Rice to

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to miscricket's comment:

     

    Good advice from Jim.  For sure...he knew when it was time to shut it down. I love baseball..but to me there are few things in sports sadder than someone who doesn't know when to let go. I like to see people go out on top..but that's my preference. I think Ortiz should have retired after last season.

    I think the whole Ortiz controversy is nothing but fodder in the sense that it's not very relevent to the team. The Sox season is doing going to hang on whether Ortiz is healthy or not.  Ortiz is part of a dying breed. If his achilles heals completely ( I doubt it ever will) then he could have an okay season...but anyone who is looking for big numbers from Big Papi is living in a dreamworld.

     




    There was no reason to retire. Before he got hurt he was having a triple crown season. Should Mo have retired after hurting his knee last year too? Each player decides when its right for them. Papi's numbers didnt suggest his time has passed yet...

     

     




    people forget that he was top in the league in OPS when he got injured... he is not done.

     

     



    Of course not.  But obviously it feels very empowering for some to proclaim him done.

     



    Oh relax.. people are allowed to come on a sports forum and comment about the condition and the inconsistencies of one of the Red Sox "key" players..without being accused of being Ortiz haters. No one hates Ortiz...I don't..but I also don't look through rose colored glasses either. Yes..Ortiz was having a great season last year..but that season..once again..came to a halt for him with an injury. There is not a lot that adds up with his achilles injury.  I bought the idea that his achilles strain turned into tendinitis...having all too much experience with these types of injuries...but we are now 6 months out and he is still having pain. That can only mean one of three things:

    - We weren't told the truth about he injury

    - Ortiz spent the off season sitting around

    - Ortiz has a lower tolerance for pain than I do

    Either way.. I like I stated before..I don't think the season is going to hinge on Ortiz' performance or lack of.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Jim Rice to

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars's comment:

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

     

    In response to SpacemanEephus's comment:

     

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

     

      "SON, YOU WILL KNOW WHEN IT'S OVER"   !!!!  

     



    Gotta say Bill, I am surprised at how much bad energy you are directing towards Papi.  Kinda weird really.  Even if his achilles is toast and he is DOA this year, it is strange for a good natured fella such as yourself to spend so much time harping on him.  Bad juju.  I am sure Dad does not approve.

     

     

    Space.....  As I have said, I am a PAPI fan and certainly understand what he has ment to the TEAM...... BUUUUTTT,  the way most posters & even management are "AVOIDING" the facts bothers me......  I sure hope Ben &  J F have a plan B C D E and im sure they do !!!  I continue to think that the $ox will go undefeated in 2013 and win it all, again !!!

     

     




    Bill, I challenge you to give 3 facts about anything baseball-related.  Anything at all.

     

       PEANUTS, POPCORN, & CRACKERJACKS !!!!!!


     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: Jim Rice to

    royf19 good posts.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: Jim Rice to

    Dewey should have retired.... cant believe he through away legacy for a few games more (in Baltimore).

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Jim Rice to

    Here is one thing to add about Rice. I've got the 1990 Red Sox Media Guide that has 1989 spring stats in them. My memory was right about Rice's 1989 spring training.

    Here are his numbers:

    He played in 27 of the 32 spring games, the most of any Red Sox player and went 36-for-96 (.367) with 11 doubles, 4 HRs and 20 RBIs. 

    So Rice was coming off a decent 1988 season, not prime-of-his-career season but decent nonetheless. He goes to spring training and tears it up. So why should he retire? And as I posted he had an excellent April.

    Whatever caused him to really drop off the cliff happened during the 1989 season.

    (And this also shows that spring stats have no bearing on what kind of season a player has).

     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Jim Rice to

    In response to jackbu's comment:

    in 1988 he played in 135 games with 15 homers and only 72 rbi's.  When the pitchers turned up the heat and pitched with men on, Rice was ineffictive.

    You can play with the numbers all you want.  I was going to games all the time back then and the last few seasons. Rice wasn't even close to what he once was.

    Once again, even after 89 he wanted to play but no one wanted to sign him.



    Who's playing with numbers. You're ignoring numbers. You say Rice was ineffective with men on base. Really? He batted .270 (higher than his season average) with RISP, and .273 with men on base. And he batted .293 w/RISP and two outs.

    Beyond that, you say Rice wasn't close to what he once was. Who's arguing with that? The point is, just because a superstar isn't carrying a team anymore, it doesn't mean he still can't contribute -- 15 HRs and 72 RBIs still is productive. It wasn't like he was batting .220 with 8 HRs and 35 RBIs in 135 games.

    ONLY 72 RBIs? In the pre-steroid era, 70-plus RBIs was a respectable number. It's not All-Star production but it's still contributing.

    As for after the 1989 season, I really don't know if he wanted to play or not. But I'm not going to fault any athlete for wanting to play as long as he can.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: Jim Rice to

    In response to jackbu's comment:

    In response to miscricket's comment:

     

    Good advice from Jim.  For sure...he knew when it was time to shut it down. I love baseball..but to me there are few things in sports sadder than someone who doesn't know when to let go. I like to see people go out on top..but that's my preference. I think Ortiz should have retired after last season.

    I think the whole Ortiz controversy is nothing but fodder in the sense that it's not very relevent to the team. The Sox season is doing going to hang on whether Ortiz is healthy or not.  Ortiz is part of a dying breed. If his achilles heals completely ( I doubt it ever will) then he could have an okay season...but anyone who is looking for big numbers from Big Papi is living in a dreamworld.

     




     

    You should check out Jim Rice's stats for his last three seasons and think again about whether or not he knew when to retire.  If Rice had not played that last season, he would had retire with an average above .300, and many think this would have sent him to the hall faster.

    I loved Jim Rice and would have paid to see him another year or so.  But he did not know when to retire and the only reason he did retire, was that there were virtually no offers after the 89 season.



    '

    Thought I'd check all posts first before I mentioned this.  You've got it covered, Jackbu.  Rice had two very pedestrian seasons where he hit 13 home runs in 108 games, and 15 home runs in 135 games before finally retiring in 1989 with 3 home runs in 56 games.    The Red Sox could get more production than this with Jonny Gomes batting against righties.  Not that they'd want him to.

     

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: Jim Rice to

    I guess I should have read the following posts after Jackbu's.  Roy did make some good points.  Still, if and when Papi plays, I would hope for a lot more from him given the dearth of left-handed power in the lineup.  

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Jim Rice to

    In response to Sheriff-Rojas's comment:

    I guess I should have read the following posts after Jackbu's.  Roy did make some good points.  Still, if and when Papi plays, I would hope for a lot more from him given the dearth of left-handed power in the lineup.  




    I agree -- to a point.

    I'd prefer Papi's line to be 30 HR, 95 to 105 RBI, .280 to .300-plus BA.

    But I can live with 23 to 25 HR, 80-plus RBI and .260-plus BA.

    Of course it also depends on  how everyone else is doing. I'd rather Ortiz being the fourth-best run producer with the Sox winning in first place (Rice in 1988), than Ortiz being the best run producer but the Sox struggling to be .500.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Jim Rice to

    In response to royf19's comment:

    In response to Sheriff-Rojas's comment:

     

    I guess I should have read the following posts after Jackbu's.  Roy did make some good points.  Still, if and when Papi plays, I would hope for a lot more from him given the dearth of left-handed power in the lineup.  

     




    I agree -- to a point.

     

    I'd prefer Papi's line to be 30 HR, 95 to 105 RBI, .280 to .300-plus BA.

    But I can live with 23 to 25 HR, 80-plus RBI and .260-plus BA.

    Of course it also depends on  how everyone else is doing. I'd rather Ortiz being the fourth-best run producer with the Sox winning in first place (Rice in 1988), than Ortiz being the best run producer but the Sox struggling to be .500.

    26MIL later ???? 


     
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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Jim Rice to

    In response to msobstinate99's comment:

    Happy 6-0 Jim Rice

    2nd that .........   Gosh, Jimmy was a great player for the $ox......  What an outfield, RICE, LYNN, & EVANS !!!!   CARL YAZ, ROOSTER, CARLTON FISK, RICO !!!  "THOSE WERE THE DAYS MY FRIENDS, WE THOUGHT  THEY WOULD NEVER END"  !!!

     
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