Joe Maddon--the ideal manager

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Joe Maddon--the ideal manager

    At least, he is for some on this board like georom, bosox1941, et al.  They believe that only a manager who goes for the win and only that win in every single game is worthy of their praise.

    Sunday night the Sox and Rays went 16 innings, with both starters going 8 scoreless innings.  But Maddon kept sending reliever after reliever out there so that, in the 16th inning, he had his 8th reliever out there.  Very commendable even though he lost the game. 

    So what happened tonight in the game which Maddon apparently considered to be completely irrelevant because he used every resource available to win the night before?

    His starter went 6 innings and gave up 2 runs, while the Yankees starter went 5.1 innings, giving up 4 runs.  At the end of the 6th, the Rays were in good position to win the game.

    But the Yankees won because their bullpen gave up no more runs, whereas Rays bullpen, all of whom pitched last night, gave up 3 runs and lost the game. 

    The lesson would seem to be:  despite appearances (and convictions on the part of georom, bosox1941, et al), there is in fact a tomorrow.  Managing the way they want to--as though there is no tomorrow--is a recipe for disaster. 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from tbrod. Show tbrod's posts

    Re: Joe Maddon--the ideal manager

    Maddon's record speaks for itself. Your post aside.
    Two of the last three AL East Division titles on a shoestring budget, in a lousy ballpark, with pathetic fan support.
    Yes, the BEST manager in the game.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Joe Maddon--the ideal manager

    In Response to Joe Maddon--the ideal manager:
    [QUOTE]At least, he is for some on this board like georom, bosox1941, et al.  They believe that only a manager who goes for the win and only that win in every single game is worthy of their praise. Sunday night the Sox and Rays went 16 innings, with both starters going 8 scoreless innings.  But Maddon kept sending reliever after reliever out there so that, in the 16th inning, he had his 8th reliever out there.  Very commendable even though he lost the game.  So what happened tonight in the game which Maddon apparently considered to be completely irrelevant because he used every resource available to win the night before? His starter went 6 innings and gave up 2 runs, while the Yankees starter went 5.1 innings, giving up 4 runs.  At the end of the 6th, the Rays were in good position to win the game. But the Yankees won because their bullpen gave up no more runs, whereas Rays bullpen, all of whom pitched last night, gave up 3 runs and lost the game.  The lesson would seem to be:  despite appearances (and convictions on the part of georom, bosox1941, et al), there is in fact a tomorrow.  Managing the way they want to--as though there is no tomorrow--is a recipe for disaster. 
    Posted by maxbialystock[/QUOTE]

    Not a good analogy to make UR point.
    A manager is going all out in a tie game at home - especially against a team they have to beat. Is it Maddon's fault it went 16 frames?
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Joe Maddon--the ideal manager

    In Response to Re: Joe Maddon--the ideal manager:
    [QUOTE]Maddon's record speaks for itself. Your post aside.
    Two of the last three AL East Division titles on a shoestring budget, in a lousy ballpark, with pathetic fan support. Yes, the BEST manager in the  game.
    Posted by tbrod[/QUOTE]

    Not sure what having a lousy park or pathetic fan support has to do with proving his preeminence as a manager.

    He IS a very good manager, but a question must be asked.  Does playing in a town where only Dickie V and 7 other people give a flying leap whether you win or not harder than in a town where sell outs rule every day and second guessing by fans around the world ...not over wins or losses alone but every strategic move OR NON-MOVE that one uses?

    You guys don't remember the 25 players/25 taxi days, I guess.  Even the sainted Dick Williams, may he RIP,  couldn't get the players to be TEAMMATES.  Nor would he buffer his player from us ravenous fans. 

    Tito has done well with both.

    BTW, MUCH easier to play or work when YOU KNOW YOUR BOSS HAS YOUR BACK, then when not.

    Tito has done well with ALL those issues.

    And won.

    In spite of himself.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Joe Maddon--the ideal manager

    In Response to Re: Joe Maddon--the ideal manager:
    [QUOTE]Maddon's record speaks for itself. Your post aside. Two of the last three AL East Division titles on a shoestring budget, in a lousy ballpark, with pathetic fan support. Yes, the BEST manager in the game.
    Posted by tbrod[/QUOTE]

    What does fan support have to do with being a good manager?  Would Maddon think better if more people were cheering?

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac32. Show pinstripezac32's posts

    Re: Joe Maddon--the ideal manager

    In Response to Re: Joe Maddon--the ideal manager:
    [QUOTE]Maddon's record speaks for itself. Your post aside. Two of the last three AL East Division titles on a shoestring budget, in a lousy ballpark, with pathetic fan support. Yes, the BEST manager in the game.
    Posted by tbrod[/QUOTE]

    I'll go with that

    I have no idea why anyone would try to cut on him
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from tbrod. Show tbrod's posts

    Re: Joe Maddon--the ideal manager

    Fan support has a lot to do with the way players perform.
    Just ask ANY athlete worth his salt, if he'd rather play before a full house or an empty one, and which is more motivating.
    To me asking what fan support has to do with on field performace, makes no sense. 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Joe Maddon--the ideal manager

    Maddon does great with the Rays. I'm not sure his skills could translate to a team full of stars- pampered or otherwise.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Joe Maddon--the ideal manager

    I am sure Maddon could manage the Red Sox to the World Series, same as Tito.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Joe Maddon--the ideal manager

    I'd love to see how Maddon would have handled the "Lackey snub".
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Joe Maddon--the ideal manager

    In Response to Re: Joe Maddon--the ideal manager:
    [QUOTE]

    1) Fan support has a lot to do with the way players perform. Just ask ANY athlete worth his salt, if he'd rather play before a full house or an empty one, and which is more motivating.

    2)To me asking what fan support has to do with on field performace, makes no sense. 
    Posted by tbrod[/QUOTE]

    1) Then it's not what the manager does.  It's what is in the mind of the mind and ego of the player.

    2)  Ask our former SS's - the last WS MVP btw is one ... how they handled sellout crowds and pressure....  


      Even the great BB coach at LOOAVILLE coulnd handle the pressure here...



     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Eddyd08. Show Eddyd08's posts

    Re: Joe Maddon--the ideal manager

    Hey Burrito


    no disrespect but that wasn't the case when he had the chance to win the WS.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Joe Maddon--the ideal manager

    In Response to Re: Joe Maddon--the ideal manager:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Joe Maddon--the ideal manager : I'll go with that I have no idea why anyone would try to cut on him
    Posted by pinstripezac32[/QUOTE]

    Not cutting on Madden, sir.

    More about the way Tito is attacked.

    Like that guy in NYC that had severla crowns but always was just lucky to be there...
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from bigpanther98. Show bigpanther98's posts

    Re: Joe Maddon--the ideal manager

    I disagree with you, Burrito, that Maddon could do as well as Francona here in Boston. For my taste, Maddon is far too whiny and fiery to do well here. I swear he gets kicked out of every other game. He has a temper, so I can imagine him having a Hal McRae moment when the Boston media starts grilling him and questioning him. Francona is the best manager for the Sox in a very long time because he does so well handling the players but also the media because of his even-keel demeanor. It might just be personal preference, but I don't like managers that whine and moan all of the time and get kicked out of games over, and over...and over again. I was never a fan of Bobby Cox for that reason, and I don't like Joe Girardi and Joe Maddon either. Mike Quade and Brad Mills are starting down that path (check out how often Mills has gotten the heave ho this year over balls and strikes calls), but I think that's more out of frustration over having such terrible teams and a lack of administration support.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Joe Maddon--the ideal manager

    No,not Joe Torre

    King George III
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Joe Maddon--the ideal manager

    Okay, truthfully I barely see their games on television so I will take your guys word on his behavior. I think the Red Sox have had their share of hotheaded managers over the years.


     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: Joe Maddon--the ideal manager

    But disagree that Maddon is one of the better manager in MLB.  Do not forget it is the G.M. of the Rays who did a great job bringing in bunch of talents via trade and draft picks.  
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Joe Maddon--the ideal manager

    Living down here you guys don't know Joe takes his share of stuff from fans. People have a hard time wondering why Upton is still playing when there are others who seem to be better especially offensively. However Upton is this teams Paul Blair (O's '70s) GREAT defensive and occasional offensive. Last night even the announcers stated he was out managed by Francona the night before when he did not PH for Drew earlier and maddon put his lefty in and when he really needed the lefty later he had none. Then Francona left his RP in where Joe kept on making L/R moves which killed him for last night vs NY. Where as Francona did not kill his BP. There is a slight difference in that Maddon put more emphasis on that one game because it was the RS. That is maddons issue he manages to win every game but IMO fails to realize that even to be good you will lose at least 65 times. So he does try to win some games he should just let go. But he then screws up the BP like he just did. Then he used the following 5 RP in the win, 5RP in the loss and 8 in the loss whereas the RS used 4, 3 and 5. So who gassed his BP and who used the BP judiciously? BTW the Rays BP is supposedly better than the RS.
    Maddon does the same with hitters doing the L/R PH and leaving himself short at the end of games. Like taking out the catcher in the 10th inning for no apparent reason and having no back up cather or RH bat off the bench.
    Maddon is good but still makes some decisions that leave fans wondering just like Terry and every other manager.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: Joe Maddon--the ideal manager

    Madden has done a good job acting as a nurse maid to young talent.  I wonder how he would do with the likes of Manny, Lowe, Pedro and JD Drew?  Or dealing with the transition from Coco to Ellsbury.  Or a Pedroia struggling for the first 6 weeks of his MLB career.  Or a Tek/Vmart/Salty situation.  Youk bouncing back and forth from 3rd to 1st.  Wakefield as a starter/reliever/starter/reliever.

    Madden deals with puppies.  Tito deals with men.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Joe Maddon--the ideal manager

    In Response to Re: Joe Maddon--the ideal manager:
    [QUOTE]Living down here you guys don't know Joe takes his share of stuff from fans. People have a hard time wondering why Upton is still playing when there are others who seem to be better especially offensively. However Upton is this teams Paul Blair (O's '70s) GREAT defensive and occasional offensive. Last night even the announcers stated he was out managed by Francona the night before when he did not PH for Drew earlier and maddon put his lefty in and when he really needed the lefty later he had none. Then Francona left his RP in where Joe kept on making L/R moves which killed him for last night vs NY. Where as Francona did not kill his BP. There is a slight difference in that Maddon put more emphasis on that one game because it was the RS. That is maddons issue he manages to win every game but IMO fails to realize that even to be good you will lose at least 65 times. So he does try to win some games he should just let go. But he then screws up the BP like he just did. Then he used the following 5 RP in the win, 5RP in the loss and 8 in the loss whereas the RS used 4, 3 and 5. So who gassed his BP and who used the BP judiciously? BTW the Rays BP is supposedly better than the RS. Maddon does the same with hitters doing the L/R PH and leaving himself short at the end of games. Like taking out the catcher in the 10th inning for no apparent reason and having no back up cather or RH bat off the bench. Maddon is good but still makes some decisions that leave fans wondering just like Terry and every other manager.
    Posted by JimfromFlorida[/QUOTE]

    Hey Jim,
    Great post. Maddon is a protege of Mike Scoiscia and manages a the game very similar to him and brought much the same offensive concepts to Tampa, small ball, aggressive baserunning etc "the perverabail National League style, which is why he also plays the percentages with his pen. Every manager plays to thier teams strengths and those that are successful also carry out the wishes of the baseball operations team. Maddon's no different...The Rays are not over achievers as many like to point too, they're a deep team that has taken advantage of a decade of being cellar dwellars, amassed some very good talant, made some savy trades and signed a few key vets to bolster thier depth. Tip of the cap to thier new owners and GM who together have remade the team, done a great job scouting, drafting and developing yound talant and hiring Maddon was one of thier keys moves...With thier stable of arms, and the next wave of talant that's on the cusp they're much like the A's of Zito, Mulder & Hudson, they'll be right there in the mix for the forseable future..Imagine how good they could've been or rather how formatable the last few years had held on to Josh Hamilton or forthat matter had Rocco Baldelli's career not been cut short due to illness. It's becasue of the young talant that they're able to compete with the big boys on small market budget. If you were to assign a FA value on guys like Longoria, Price etc both are 20M per year players, getting paid peanuts the rays salary would look much different...

    Did Maddon blow last nights game by running out of arms after burning his pen in a "must win" 16 inning 1-0 game the night before againt the team he trialed by 6 games in the standings? Or was is just that thier pen was exposed for the weak link in the chain that was projected as a concern entering the season?

    In the end, losing two of the three to the Sox put them in a deep hole if they lose more ground to the Yanks in this series it may be a case of wait til next year for the Rays. During a 162 game schedule there's two or three series that can tip the scales...As the season winds down the magnitude of those series intesifies. For Maddon and his boy's the time is now to make hay. That''s why he put his closer in with 1 out in the 8th last night.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from beavis. Show beavis's posts

    Re: Joe Maddon--the ideal manager

    In Response to Re: Joe Maddon--the ideal manager:
    [QUOTE]I'd love to see how Maddon would have handled the "Lackey snub".
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    A left hook?
     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac32. Show pinstripezac32's posts

    Re: Joe Maddon--the ideal manager

    In Response to Re: Joe Maddon--the ideal manager:
    [QUOTE]Maddon is an overrated and arrogant turd.  He can thank the GM down there for his "success". They've adopted the Twins formula and it's worked well for them. Maybe he can do some more commercials this off season?
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

    I'm guessing your real name is maddon?

    I just don't get how anyone can trash maddon

    not maddon the poster, maddon the mgr

    he has won the east the last 2 of the last 3 yrs


    has anyone else done that
     
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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac32. Show pinstripezac32's posts

    Re: Joe Maddon--the ideal manager

    well Gardenhire is a favorite of mine

    but still no reason not to respect what maddon is doing / has done
     
     

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