Joe Maddon--the ideal manager

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    Re: Joe Maddon--the ideal manager

    Sox were hot for him in 04...
     
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    Re: Joe Maddon--the ideal manager

    Tito is better, plus his glasses have a more refined and intellectual look, unlike Maddon's hippy look...he appears to be a clown...

     
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    Re: Joe Maddon--the ideal manager

    In Response to Re: Joe Maddon--the ideal manager:
    [QUOTE]I respect it just fine. I think he's overrated.  Again, look at the talent on the roster.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

    TB finished 3rd in runs scored in 2010 despite these numbers from "talented" players and batting order slots:

    Leadoff .249 BA
    2nd slot  .333 OBP
    3rd  .832 OPS
    4th  .802 OPS
    5th  .221 BA/.717 OPS
    6th   .221 BA/.691 OPS

    I guess it wasall luck.

     
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    Re: Joe Maddon--the ideal manager

    In Response to Re: Joe Maddon--the ideal manager:
    [QUOTE]Maddon's record speaks for itself. Your post aside. Two of the last three AL East Division titles on a shoestring budget, in a lousy ballpark, with pathetic fan support. Yes, the BEST manager in the game.
    Posted by tbrod[/QUOTE]

     You wouldn't be saying that if his low budget players didn't produce. If a low budget player has a great year ,it's because of the manager? I DON'T THINK SO !!. If a low budget player has a great year with a bad manager who's fault is that???
     
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    Re: Joe Maddon--the ideal manager

    While I prefer Terry, I have no complaints with anyone defending Joe Maddon.  I do think that sometimes his ability is overblown simply because the Rays overall salary budget is so small.  Thus Maddon becomes a genius when a great young player like Longoria hits well, fields well, and even runs the bases well. 

    I think Maddon is right for his club, but I also think he isn't always a genius.  So I second-guessed him on what he did Sunday night, which I think affected the outcome Monday night--the Rays lost a 2 run lead.  This could of course have happened if the bullpen was completely rested, but I couldn't resist pointing out that maybe it was tired. 
     
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    Re: Joe Maddon--the ideal manager

    In Response to Re: Joe Maddon--the ideal manager:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Joe Maddon--the ideal manager : TB finished 3rd in runs scored in 2010 despite these numbers from "talented" players and batting order slots: Leadoff .249 BA 2nd slot  .333 OBP 3rd  .832 OPS 4th  .802 OPS 5th  .221 BA/.717 OPS 6th   .221 BA/.691 OPS I guess it wasall luck.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]The fact that the team's average with RISP was significantly higher than the total average does usggest that there was some element of luck.

    That said Maddon is a very good manager and what he does works for the personnel he has. How much he would alter his approach if his roster looked different is speculation. But a good indicator is the fact that he is much quicker with his hook this year with his bullpen than he was last year when he had guys established and suceesful in their roles.

    But what he does in Tampa would put a choke collar on the RS offense,not enhance it. He would either change his approach to match the personnel (most likely) or he would actually hurt the production of the team.

    IMO he is a VG manager, as is Francona.
     
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    Re: Joe Maddon--the ideal manager

    In Response to Re: Joe Maddon--the ideal manager:
    [QUOTE]I respect it just fine. I think he's overrated.  Again, look at the talent on the roster.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

     You call Maddon an arrogant turd - but you respect him just fine.
     Gotcha.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: Joe Maddon--the ideal manager

    He over manages. He shifts every lefty including Ellsbury. His use of the bp in the 16 inning game was increditably short sited. Scoisca could be the worst manager to ever win a WS and Maddon learned from him. Veterans can't stand Scoisca this is the large reason they never resign there own but can throw around 100 million dollar contracts to new aquistions. These two drive me nuts.
     
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    Re: Joe Maddon--the ideal manager

    Maddon is an emtional wreck that takes everything personally. Remember when that pop up hit that catwalk and the Twins beat the Rays? Maddon wanted the Tropicana ground rules changed, even though the season before his team had won in the same exact fashion. James Shields throws at Coco Crisp, Crisp rightfully slides into second, and Maddon personally threatens a player? The man is a poor man's Ozzie Guillen. Succcessful, yes, stable, no.
     
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    Re: Joe Maddon--the ideal manager

    In Response to Re: Joe Maddon--the ideal manager:
    [QUOTE]Maddon is an emtional wreck that takes everything personally. Remember when that pop up hit that catwalk and the Twins beat the Rays? Maddon wanted the Tropicana ground rules changed, even though the season before his team had won in the same exact fashion. James Shields throws at Coco Crisp, Crisp rightfully slides into second, and Maddon personally threatens a player? The man is a poor man's Ozzie Guillen. Succcessful, yes, stable, no.
    Posted by bettersoftthanlaw[/QUOTE]

    Takes one to know one.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Joe Maddon--the ideal manager

    In Response to Re: Joe Maddon--the ideal manager:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Joe Maddon--the ideal manager : The fact that the team's average with RISP was significantly higher than the total average does usggest that there was some element of luck. That said Maddon is a very good manager and what he does works for the personnel he has. How much he would alter his approach if his roster looked different is speculation. But a good indicator is the fact that he is much quicker with his hook this year with his bullpen than he was last year when he had guys established and suceesful in their roles. But what he does in Tampa would put a choke collar on the RS offense,not enhance it. He would either change his approach to match the personnel (most likely) or he would actually hurt the production of the team. IMO he is a VG manager, as is Francona.
    Posted by fivekatz[/QUOTE]

    The high RISP helped, yes, but so did some of Maddon's methods to manufacture runs.

    One other factor that I feel shows Maddon is a very good manager is how he seems to get the most out of his bullpen. His bullpens never look good on paper in March, but they seem to always overachieve, especially this year.

     
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    Re: Joe Maddon--the ideal manager

    Maddon is a chess-playing manager. IMO, his fit with Tampa is perfect.
    A lot of it is the fit.
     
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    Re: Joe Maddon--the ideal manager

    In Response to Re: Joe Maddon--the ideal manager:
    [QUOTE]Living down here you guys don't know Joe takes his share of stuff from fans. People have a hard time wondering why Upton is still playing when there are others who seem to be better especially offensively. However Upton is this teams Paul Blair (O's '70s) GREAT defensive and occasional offensive. Last night even the announcers stated he was out managed by Francona the night before when he did not PH for Drew earlier and maddon put his lefty in and when he really needed the lefty later he had none. Then Francona left his RP in where Joe kept on making L/R moves which killed him for last night vs NY. Where as Francona did not kill his BP. There is a slight difference in that Maddon put more emphasis on that one game because it was the RS. That is maddons issue he manages to win every game but IMO fails to realize that even to be good you will lose at least 65 times. So he does try to win some games he should just let go. But he then screws up the BP like he just did. Then he used the following 5 RP in the win, 5RP in the loss and 8 in the loss whereas the RS used 4, 3 and 5. So who gassed his BP and who used the BP judiciously? BTW the Rays BP is supposedly better than the RS. Maddon does the same with hitters doing the L/R PH and leaving himself short at the end of games. Like taking out the catcher in the 10th inning for no apparent reason and having no back up cather or RH bat off the bench. Maddon is good but still makes some decisions that leave fans wondering just like Terry and every other manager.
    Posted by JimfromFlorida[/QUOTE]

    Outstanding analysis.  Tito out-managed him last night, but Maddon is generally an excellent manager.  Right now, we have the luxury is not treating every game as do-or-die.  The Rays have until 7/31 to decide if they're buyers or sellers.  We can throw our entire BP at TB and not care if we lose the next game.  TB has to beat us, and then they have to beat the NYY.  It can't be either-or.
     
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    Re: Joe Maddon--the ideal manager

    It all comes down to this: Is a manager getting the most from his players?
    Given the talent level Maddon has to work with, I'd say he's one of the best managers in the game. His success with a team under extreme financial restrictions - in the toughest division on earth - is astounding.
    The Rays win the division last year by beating power-house line-ups. They do it with strong fundamentals and sustained pitching.

    To truly appreciate him, you have to look at it in a larger context.
    How he relates to his players.
    The limitations of his players.

    As for the other stuff, Martin and D. Williams could whine with the best of them. They did alright.
     
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    Re: Joe Maddon--the ideal manager

    I understand what the OP was trying to do but knocking Maddon doesn't make a lot of sense. He's a great manager and fits his team's personality, just like Tito is a great manager that fits the personality and star makeup of this team. Just how well each would do in the other's shoes, no one can know. I'd be glad to have either one as the Sox manager, but I'm happy to have Tito. Who by the way did a nice job of managing that 16 inning game from a pitching standpoint.
     
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