John Henry "perplexed" by Red Sox discontent

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: John Henry "perplexed" by Red Sox discontent

    In Response to Re: John Henry "perplexed" by Red Sox discontent:
    [QUOTE]The owner is perplexed, yet: he won't let Bobby be Bobby; he keeps some of Francona's coaching staff; he lets Ben make decisions on who starts (Bard); lets the training/medical staff determine who can play and when. This reminds of so much of Moneyball, it's not even funny.
    Posted by Alibiike[/QUOTE]

    You are amazingly naive. First of all, Bobby being Bobby never amounted to much (.510 win percentage). This is not even close to Moneyball, this is a manager who is so over-rated by a lot of you, and portrayed as this poor guy who deserves better. And BV has yet to earn anyone's respect--mostly the players--despite what Pedroia may have said to calm down the situation yesterday.l 
     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from futbal. Show futbal's posts

    Re: John Henry "perplexed" by Red Sox discontent

    In Response to Re: John Henry "perplexed" by Red Sox discontent:
    [QUOTE]AGon made a big mistake. He allowed himself to be used by old Red Sox union boss and his minions. No one will listen to a word Beckett or Ellsbury et al say, including Pedroia who has made the mistake of following the union boss. I'm disappointed in AGon and Pedroia, but I know exaclty what's going on. They both love the game and have the history of games played to prove it. They have allowed themselves to be used. AGon is a new guy, so I can see how gullable he might be. Pedroia should know better. Once Beckett and Ellsbury are gone the entire character of what's left will change. It's very important that the team get new player leadership. Middlebrooks and Buchholz are the most obvious choices. They need to step up, mature into the essential player leadership roles that require players to demand accountability from themselves. Ortiz is on year to year contract status. There is no way that he has the platform and foundation to dress down his fellow players.
    Posted by TrotterNixon[/QUOTE]

    Knew that about Becket, but what makes Ellsbury the same? His agent? His injuries? Becket is clearly a bumb who doesn't have it any more but Ells seems like the anomous is a two-way street with managment/ownership sharing some of the blame.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: John Henry "perplexed" by Red Sox discontent

    I am more ticked at the block-head posters who told me I was wrong for wanting to make significant change in December 2011.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from antibody. Show antibody's posts

    Re: John Henry "perplexed" by Red Sox discontent

    In Response to Re: John Henry "perplexed" by Red Sox discontent:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: John Henry "perplexed" by Red Sox discontent : to be fair to Henry, thats why he pays Lucchino and Cherington to run the day to day stuff
    Posted by xdrive[/QUOTE]

    It's painfully evident that they are not getting the job done. Henry needs to take charge and clean house or hire someone who can. What has been happening for the past few years isn't working.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: John Henry "perplexed" by Red Sox discontent

    In Response to Re: John Henry "perplexed" by Red Sox discontent:
    [QUOTE]My prediction is the Mariners won't make the playoffs, again. My prediction is, regardless of how they play from here out, Beckett will be gone by the end of next winter. Ellsbury should be piggybacked with him and shown the door. Some MLB 3b'man just separated his shoulder and popped it back in and stayed in the game, much less missed over half a season. He waited to have the imaging done to see if he had tissue damage. Ellsbury had no tissue damage beyond inflamation, did not need any surgery, and missed over half the season.
    Posted by TrotterNixon[/QUOTE]
    And probably finish behind the Red Sox.

    Or not.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from antibody. Show antibody's posts

    Re: John Henry "perplexed" by Red Sox discontent

    In Response to Re: John Henry "perplexed" by Red Sox discontent:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: John Henry "perplexed" by Red Sox discontent : I agree but have you seen John Henry lately. I mean how do you wake up a corpse. 
    Posted by stan17[/QUOTE]

    Point well taken.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: John Henry "perplexed" by Red Sox discontent

    Thanks over-the-hill55 for another droll post.
     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: John Henry "perplexed" by Red Sox discontent

    In Response to Re: John Henry "perplexed" by Red Sox discontent:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: John Henry "perplexed" by Red Sox discontent : You are amazingly naive. First of all, Bobby being Bobby never amounted to much (.510 win percentage). This is not even close to Moneyball, this is a manager who is so over-rated by a lot of you, and portrayed as this poor guy who deserves better. And BV has yet to earn anyone's respect--mostly the players--despite what Pedroia may have said to calm down the situation yesterday.l 
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    Agree.

    I think part of the problem was that Bobby was being Bobby, creating problems out of nowhere. And if Bobby wasn't being Bobby, that's on him 100 percent, not the front office, no matter what they said.

    There are certain things you have to be on the same page in building the roster. But the day-to-day stuff, Bobby should have acted how he wanted to and not backtracked regardless of what the front office said. THat was the only way he would have been successful. If they fired him, then fine, he's still getting paid and but at least he was managing on his own terms.

    If Bobby wasn't Bobby, the problem was he wanted to manage so bad that he allowed himself ot be controlled in areas where he should have exerted his own control. THat's on him.



     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: John Henry "perplexed" by Red Sox discontent

    In Response to Re: John Henry "perplexed" by Red Sox discontent:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: John Henry "perplexed" by Red Sox discontent : Agree. I think part of the problem was that Bobby was being Bobby, creating problems out of nowhere. And if Bobby wasn't being Bobby, that's on him 100 percent, not the front office, no matter what they said. There are certain things you have to be on the same page in building the roster. But the day-to-day stuff, Bobby should have acted how he wanted to and not backtracked regardless of what the front office said. THat was the only way he would have been successful. If they fired him, then fine, he's still getting paid and but at least he was managing on his own terms. If Bobby wasn't Bobby, the problem was he wanted to manage so bad that he allowed himself ot be controlled in areas where he should have exerted his own control. THat's on him.
    Posted by royf19[/QUOTE]


    And this absolves the players how?
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: John Henry "perplexed" by Red Sox discontent

    In Response to Re: John Henry "perplexed" by Red Sox discontent:
    [QUOTE]Thanks over-the- hill55  for another droll post.
    Posted by EnchiladaT[/QUOTE]
    De nada.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: John Henry "perplexed" by Red Sox discontent

    In Response to Re: John Henry "perplexed" by Red Sox discontent:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: John Henry "perplexed" by Red Sox discontent : De nada.
    Posted by hill55[/QUOTE]


    lol. oh well, at least you provide the forum with stable facts rather than just raving/ranting like me
     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: John Henry "perplexed" by Red Sox discontent

    In Response to Re: John Henry "perplexed" by Red Sox discontent:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: John Henry "perplexed" by Red Sox discontent : And this absolves the players how?
    Posted by EnchiladaT[/QUOTE]

    BURRITO, do you want the team to win? It's a simple question because I'm getting the impression that all the fans in here would rather wallow in the discontent of the players and bask in the undo discomfort of BV...I'd rather we talk about wins and losses...The team is 3 games under .500. For whatever reason in each of the last 3 points where the Sox seemed to be gaining steam, on a short win streak, or anything remotely pointed to wins---what happens? I'll tell you, BV somehow becomes the story. Why? Because he says something or does something that irks players who are already doing well, or he volunteers info that the players' don't want volunteered. Anyway you slice it, it's putting a wet blanket on any kind of momentum the team creates. It's a broken record, but I'll say it for the 1,000th time---you can't fire 25 players, you can change the dynamic by getting rid of the leader of the 25 players. The relationship between BV and the players is pretty much terrible, and the spin that is going on is that the players are ok with Bobby and management backs him. But they are basically throwing in the towel for 2012 and the LA Kings of the NHL should be food for thought--fired the head coach and won the championship with an interim coach. How f-ing hard is to try it? BV is done, toast, history, and yet the organization is afraid to admit it made a mistake and the players don't want to be viewed as crybabies (which Passan exposed them as) or accused of costing BV his job. Dump the manager and see what happens. Nothing to lose right now, and everything to gain by seeing just how the players do with a manager who is connected to the game from the present going back at least the last 10 seasons. 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: John Henry "perplexed" by Red Sox discontent

    Ok, all you posters continue to blame ownership, GM and players for the team's demise and don't try anything that could fix it because it would get in the way of the wallowing.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Re: John Henry "perplexed" by Red Sox discontent

    Bumping thread to drop 2004 idiots redundancy
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: John Henry "perplexed" by Red Sox discontent

    In Response to Re: John Henry "perplexed" by Red Sox discontent:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: John Henry "perplexed" by Red Sox discontent : And this absolves the players how?
    Posted by EnchiladaT[/QUOTE]

    Who said the players should be absolved one way or another.

    My point -- in case you didn't read the post entirely -- simply is that Bobby V. has been a problem one way or another. I think his management style has created issues, and if he wasn't managing exactly the way he wanted to, that's on him and only him.


     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from 6k42lt913c. Show 6k42lt913c's posts

    Re: John Henry "perplexed" by Red Sox discontent

    Buster Olney is guessing that John Henry was "perplexed" Henry addresses that here.

    "What Tom, Larry and I heard in the player meeting was one overriding sentiment. Players felt responsible for the record. They weren't blaming injuries or anyone but themselves. At the same time they openly spoke about what could improve in addition to their play. They made substantive points. We addressed those points. No one in that meeting at any time took the position that Bobby should be or needed to be replaced.

    "I understand that when the team isn't playing up to our standards that issues are going to be sensationalized. But what is important for Red Sox fans to know is that ownership, players and all staff especially Bobby Valentine are determined to turn around what has thus far been an unacceptable, failed season. We are all on the same page in that regard and will not waver."

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: John Henry "perplexed" by Red Sox discontent

    In Response to Re: John Henry "perplexed" by Red Sox discontent:
    [QUOTE]Jeff Passon (sp)was on WEEI this morning. Said ownership was shocked at the level of discontent. Also said the players went to and asked Adrian Gonzalez, knowing he shared some of their views, to go to ownership as the team spokesman, knowing he wasnt known was a b*tch and moaner and ownership would listen to him. He thought about it and decided to take a leadership role.  Very telling indeed; the one time AGon finally decides to  act like a leader, he chooses this as his cause. Very telling.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]
    Yup.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: John Henry "perplexed" by Red Sox discontent

    Ok, so it's the players fault...you can't fire 25 players...the team needs a shakeup of some proportion...only thing available is fire the Manager. I really feel that is how you do it. There is nothing to lose by doing this..nothing.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: John Henry "perplexed" by Red Sox discontent

    this is not personal against BV...it's what has transpired under his helm..
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: John Henry "perplexed" by Red Sox discontent

    He could probably manage elsewhere, a small market team and be just fine. But not in Boston. Sounds Pedroia-esque, but it's true.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from 6k42lt913c. Show 6k42lt913c's posts

    Re: John Henry "perplexed" by Red Sox discontent

    You can believe the snitch (Shoppach) or believe John Henry's statement today. The choice is yours.

    "What Tom, Larry and I heard in the player meeting was one overriding sentiment. Players felt responsible for the record. They weren't blaming injuries or anyone but themselves. At the same time they openly spoke about what could improve in addition to their play. They made substantive points. We addressed those points. No one in that meeting at any time took the position that Bobby should be or needed to be replaced.

    "I understand that when the team isn't playing up to our standards that issues are going to be sensationalized. But what is important for Red Sox fans to know is that ownership, players and all staff especially Bobby Valentine are determined to turn around what has thus far been an unacceptable, failed season. We are all on the same page in that regard and will not waver."

     
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