1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Teakus. Show Teakus's posts

    John Henry-Red Sox 2012 and Jeffrey Loria-Marlins 2012. Same guy? Will both cities fans be similiarly mistreated?

    Of course much separates these two men. Loria's Marlins are a small market club with a dwindling fanbase, which somehow managed to con Miami into financing a $515 million dollar stadium. He immediately went back on his pledge to field a competitive team, something agreed to as a condition of financing said stadium, and MLB's Bud Selig signed off on the deal anyway with the same nonchalance he treated the PED issue. Who can be bothered with such petty matters, when it's only Baseballs fans/players who are hurt? It's not as if someone wealthy has suffered harm, after all. Our boy Loria jettisoned every top player he had, and now has a target of $34 million for this coming season. You heard that right-$34 million!! There are rumblings of a fanbase revolt brewing, along with calls for a boycott of all things Marlins. I wish them well in their efforts, as should anyone with half a conscience.

    But what about our guy? John Henry is the principle owner of a large market club with the highest ticket prices in Baseball, the 2nd largest TV revenues, and the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th highest total revenues in baseball, depending on who sold the most advertising , hot dogs, and beers that season. Yet we've now done exactly what the Marlins have done-extracted all the top talent from our team and thrown it away in a giant salary dump. Now, we can argue that our jettisoning of talent is justified, and is designed to benefit the team longterm-and maybe it is. But Jeffrey Pinocchio Loria is arguing the exact same thing, and I'm here to tell you I don't believe a word he says. It's a classic tale of corporate greed and deceit, and it's not the 1st time he's pulled this trick. But Henry is trusted you say-a different man. I agree...to a point. He's never sunk as low as Loria has, but he's had several seasons where even the least critical among us were given reason to doubt his willingness to field a contending team. When he sat idly by and watched an excessive amount more Benjamins roll in than out, and liked it. But he's never done what he's done now-jettison almost every high priced piece we had and lick his chops as the cash rolled in. Never!~ Until now. Now we sit here in 2012 beholding two men with an identical approach to their respective teams. Neither team, as currently staffed, could beat a womans field hockey team in a game of checkers, let alone on a baseball diamond. Loria has stated his intention to stand pat and suck up the dollars-and let the fans eat cake! The question I have is: Does John Henry plan to do the same to us?  And please do remember, we have at least quadruple the amout of resources/revenue than Miami has. I am watching this off season with a VERY discriminating eye, and I know I am not alone. Gomez?! Are you freaking kidding me?? And no, I don't feel any better because we gave him 3-4 million more than we should have! He's a lousy fielder and a mediocre hitter who should never have been signed. And to me it's indicative of a GM who's been told "the purse is closed for this year, why not check out the bargain basement racks?" I guess what I am saying is this: don't you even think of pulling it John. While the people of Miami may or may not rise up in outrage, the good folks of Boston have a history built on uprisings. I'd not test their resolve. Restore the talent level on this team, and be quick about it. We've all been patient long enough, and phony discussions about "bridge years" will not be entertained.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: John Henry-Red Sox 2012 and Jeffrey Loria-Marlins 2012. Same guy? Will both cities fans be similiarly mistreated?

    Ha ha...I knew the really wacky stuff like this was coming.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: John Henry-Red Sox 2012 and Jeffrey Loria-Marlins 2012. Same guy? Will both cities fans be similiarly mistreated?

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Ha ha...I knew the really wacky stuff like this was coming.

    [/QUOTE]

    I am continually amazed by the people that whine we have only the second highest payroll in BB on a regular basis.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: John Henry-Red Sox 2012 and Jeffrey Loria-Marlins 2012. Same guy? Will both cities fans be similiarly mistreated?

     

     

    One thing for sure, John Henry has a beautiful wife who is only half his age.   

    And Henry has better taste in women than A-Rod.   LOL

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Teakus. Show Teakus's posts

    Re: John Henry-Red Sox 2012 and Jeffrey Loria-Marlins 2012. Same guy? Will both cities fans be similiarly mistreated?

    Wacky stuff indeed nut. We will all see together whether Henry takes the Florida Marlins road, as he has thus far in 2012, or the Red Sox road as Joe points out we've taken in the past( though he may have meant 2nd,3rd,or 4th payroll in recent years). All will be revealed soon enough. I have simply gone on record as saying that, like the Marlins, we have dumped our talent/salary and presently sit as a quasi small market club. The decision to alter course is Henry's to make, and we are ALL but observers. But observe we will, make absolutely no mistake about that.  

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: John Henry-Red Sox 2012 and Jeffrey Loria-Marlins 2012. Same guy? Will both cities fans be similiarly mistreated?

    Everybody's going to be watching the payroll, I started a thread on it myself.  But to seriously entertain the possibility that Henry and the front office might try to pull something sneaky on the fanbase is, at this point in time, somewhat paranoid IMO.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: John Henry-Red Sox 2012 and Jeffrey Loria-Marlins 2012. Same guy? Will both cities fans be similiarly mistreated?

    Paranoid, premature and silly.  There is no evidence* to support such conjecture, and ample evidence to refute it.

     

    * The Great Street Car** Robbery was extremely good business to all but the lunatic fringe.

     

    ** A reference to the origin of the Brooklyn Dodgers'  team name.

     
  8. This post has been removed.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSox_Giants_Devils_Nicks. Show RedSox_Giants_Devils_Nicks's posts

    Re: John Henry-Red Sox 2012 and Jeffrey Loria-Marlins 2012. Same guy? Will both cities fans be similiarly mistreated?

    Ok let me try to set the board straight about John Henrey, Jeffrey Loria, and every other owner in Sports and not just baseball..... They Dont give a F**K about you. They dont care if you are happy with the team at hand, they dont care if you are comfortable at the stadium, they dont care if you pay too much for food at the park. They only care about The profit margin of their business (the Team). If the things listed before help them with their margin (which is low and most of the time non existent in sports) then they care. Dont be fooled tho, they do care about winning because a winning team brings in more money and playoff teams get playoff shares, but they dont care about winning if it makes you happy.  Notice how when Henry was trying to buy Liverpool, the current owners did not want to get rid of the team even tho their fans were pleading for them gone. Why? Because like the red sox they are a storied franchise with a fanatical fan base who good, bad, or ugly, make profits. 

    So enough with the whining owner posts that they dont care about you because they dont. 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Teakus. Show Teakus's posts

    Re: John Henry-Red Sox 2012 and Jeffrey Loria-Marlins 2012. Same guy? Will both cities fans be similiarly mistreated?

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Everybody's going to be watching the payroll, I started a thread on it myself.  But to seriously entertain the possibility that Henry and the front office might try to pull something sneaky on the fanbase is, at this point in time, somewhat paranoid IMO.

    [/QUOTE]


    Sorry I missed ya thread Hfxsoxnut. But you lost me with the "pull something sneaky on the fanbase" thing. Who suggested such a thing? I clearly stated the sneaky behavior was committed by Mr. Loria of the Marlins who lied, in the opinion of many, to the fans and MLB when negotiating his stadium deal. He only got the $515 million after promising to field a competitive team-something he's clearly not doing this season. But the agreement holds no legal weight, as it's open to anyone's interpretation exactly what constitutes a competitive team. The fans are rightfully outraged....and I suspect organized protests, flash mobs, and boycotts are more than a bit likely. No...if Henry pulls anything it will be by going bargain basement and it would happen right in front of us. No suggestions of sneakiness there.

     

    SonicsMonksLyresVicars offered the following point:

    "Paranoid, premature and silly. There is no evidence* to support such conjecture, and ample evidence to refute it."

    To which I respond....huh? No "conjecture" was offered. Yet you not only found no evidence to support it-you were able to find "ample evidence to refute it". Wow! I never pointed out which path I expected Henry to take, that of the Marlins or of a team committed to winning. I simply point out the obvious truth that he stands at a fork in the road, and a direction must be decided upon. You can choose to remain silent until May if you choose, when it is apparant to all what path was chosen.  I have shared my thoughts on this message board in advance. I am very concerned about the future of this club, and you should be as well.

    Finally, a poster graciously informed us that owners "don't give a  F**K about you". I get it sir, even without the suggested profanity. All businessmen seek to maximize profits. The only restrictions on their activity is the law, and public opinion which can harm their fortunes to some limited extent. I think that in Miami unless Loria changes and begs for mercy from fans, he may well slay his golden goose. He's got a brand new stadium and should have been working hard to fill it. Instead he's at war with the very people who provide him his income. Good luck with that.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: John Henry-Red Sox 2012 and Jeffrey Loria-Marlins 2012. Same guy? Will both cities fans be similiarly mistreated?

    "Conjecture - the formation or expression of an opinion or theory without sufficient evidence for proof."

    "John Henry-Red Sox 2012 and Jeffrey Loria-Marlins 2012. Same guy? Will both cities fans be similiarly mistreated?"

     

    Of course I'm concerned, I want the Sox to succeed as much as you do.  But to compare him to Loria does not seem credible to me.  Over 10+ years since Henry invested in the Boston Red Sox baseball enterprise, he's invested heavily and - no surprise - doubled his investment capital, if not more.

    So now he's going to stop and asset strip them?  Maybe, who knows?  But it seems more likely that they payroll will continue to be in the top 2-3-4 and fans should be patient rather than panic.

     
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Teakus. Show Teakus's posts

    Re: John Henry-Red Sox 2012 and Jeffrey Loria-Marlins 2012. Same guy? Will both cities fans be similiarly mistreated?

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    "Conjecture - the formation or expression of an opinion or theory without sufficient evidence for proof."

    "John Henry-Red Sox 2012 and Jeffrey Loria-Marlins 2012. Same guy? Will both cities fans be similiarly mistreated?"

     

    Of course I'm concerned, I want the Sox to succeed as much as you do.  But to compare him to Loria does not seem credible to me.  Over 10+ years since Henry invested in the Boston Red Sox baseball enterprise, he's invested heavily and - no surprise - doubled his investment capital, if not more.

    So now he's going to stop and asset strip them?  Maybe, who knows?  But it seems more likely that they payroll will continue to be in the top 2-3-4 and fans should be patient rather than panic.

     [/QUOTE]


    Your definition still doesn't describe my position friend, but I'll not quibble about it. Especially since your own comment "So now he's going to stop and asset strip them? Maybe, who knows?", exactly mirrors my own view. Door #1 or door #2-which will he choose? He'll either spend like the large market club we are, or he'll go the Marlins route. My vote is for the former...

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: John Henry-Red Sox 2012 and Jeffrey Loria-Marlins 2012. Same guy? Will both cities fans be similiarly mistreated?

    In response to Teakus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    "Conjecture - the formation or expression of an opinion or theory without sufficient evidence for proof."

    "John Henry-Red Sox 2012 and Jeffrey Loria-Marlins 2012. Same guy? Will both cities fans be similiarly mistreated?"

     

    Of course I'm concerned, I want the Sox to succeed as much as you do.  But to compare him to Loria does not seem credible to me.  Over 10+ years since Henry invested in the Boston Red Sox baseball enterprise, he's invested heavily and - no surprise - doubled his investment capital, if not more.

    So now he's going to stop and asset strip them?  Maybe, who knows?  But it seems more likely that they payroll will continue to be in the top 2-3-4 and fans should be patient rather than panic.

     [/QUOTE]


    Your definition still doesn't describe my position friend, but I'll not quibble about it. Especially since your own comment "So now he's going to stop and asset strip them? Maybe, who knows?", exactly mirrors my own view. Door #1 or door #2-which will he choose? He'll either spend like the large market club we are, or he'll go the Marlins route. My vote is for the former...

    [/QUOTE]

    John Henry may have done many stupid things in his life, but it doesn't seem that killing a cash cow is one of them.  Loria, and Hyzinga before him, did what they did in Miami because they, with the same keen, calculating eye for what is profit and what is loss that Henry possesses, knew that there was no long money in Miami baseball.  They saw the writing on the wall.  The writing on the big green wall in Fenway says "all you have to do is field contenders and you will horde gold like a dragon".  Zero chance Henry pulls the plug.  Is it possible he will take his eye off the ball?  Make stupid choices?  Trust the wrong people?  Sure.  Not saying he is immune to screwing things up.  He has already shown that he can do that.  But he ain't pullin' the plug loria-style.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: John Henry-Red Sox 2012 and Jeffrey Loria-Marlins 2012. Same guy? Will both cities fans be similiarly mistreated?

    No. Boston is NOT Miami. End of story...

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: John Henry-Red Sox 2012 and Jeffrey Loria-Marlins 2012. Same guy? Will both cities fans be similiarly mistreated?

    They Dont give a F**K about you. They dont care if you are happy with the team at hand, they dont care if you are comfortable at the stadium, they dont care if you pay too much for food at the park. 

    Of course they care.  All owners care.  Most owners of every type of business want nothing more than to see the customers happy.  The whole key to business is to separate customers from their money as nicely as possible.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from sporter81. Show sporter81's posts

    Re: John Henry-Red Sox 2012 and Jeffrey Loria-Marlins 2012. Same guy? Will both cities fans be similiarly mistreated?

    In response to RedSox_Giants_Devils_Nicks' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Ok let me try to set the board straight about John Henrey, Jeffrey Loria, and every other owner in Sports and not just baseball..... They Dont give a F**K about you. They dont care if you are happy with the team at hand, they dont care if you are comfortable at the stadium, they dont care if you pay too much for food at the park. They only care about The profit margin of their business (the Team). If the things listed before help them with their margin (which is low and most of the time non existent in sports) then they care. Dont be fooled tho, they do care about winning because a winning team brings in more money and playoff teams get playoff shares, but they dont care about winning if it makes you happy.  Notice how when Henry was trying to buy Liverpool, the current owners did not want to get rid of the team even tho their fans were pleading for them gone. Why? Because like the red sox they are a storied franchise with a fanatical fan base who good, bad, or ugly, make profits. 

    So enough with the whining owner posts that they dont care about you because they dont. 

    [/QUOTE]

    True

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: John Henry-Red Sox 2012 and Jeffrey Loria-Marlins 2012. Same guy? Will both cities fans be similiarly mistreated?

    In response to Teakus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Wacky stuff indeed nut. We will all see together whether Henry takes the Florida Marlins road, as he has thus far in 2012, or the Red Sox road as Joe points out we've taken in the past( though he may have meant 2nd,3rd,or 4th payroll in recent years). All will be revealed soon enough. I have simply gone on record as saying that, like the Marlins, we have dumped our talent/salary and presently sit as a quasi small market club. The decision to alter course is Henry's to make, and we are ALL but observers. But observe we will, make absolutely no mistake about that.  

    [/QUOTE]


    After arb eligible signings we will be between 100-110M...Thats before anymore FA signings...Not exactly small market stuff if you ask me...

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from -Guru-Meditation-. Show -Guru-Meditation-'s posts

    Re: John Henry-Red Sox 2012 and Jeffrey Loria-Marlins 2012. Same guy? Will both cities fans be similiarly mistreated?

    ...

     
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