John Lackey, disgruntled employee

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hammah29r2. Show Hammah29r2's posts

    Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee

    after pitching 6 innings and only losing 1-0 with no run support I guess I'd be a little disgruntled as well. what a great idea it was to bring back oki eh?
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Roadrunner9234. Show Roadrunner9234's posts

    Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee

    In Response to John Lackey, disgruntled employee:
    First he griped about the long layoff between starts, then his comment after being taken out of the game after six innings last night was "I just work here." Do you buy into the idea that "feeling good about yourself" is of paramount importance to a professional sports team? Seems to me a multi-millionaire in his early thirties should feel just fine. And don't forget the gestures at teammates after they make errors - maybe Lackey's real issue is maturity.
    Posted by davetheknave


    Yes, lack of maturity, a bad attitude, and just not being that good of a pitcher.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee

    In Response to John Lackey, disgruntled employee:
    First he griped about the long layoff between starts, then his comment after being taken out of the game after six innings last night was "I just work here." Do you buy into the idea that "feeling good about yourself" is of paramount importance to a professional sports team? Seems to me a multi-millionaire in his early thirties should feel just fine. And don't forget the gestures at teammates after they make errors - maybe Lackey's real issue is maturity.
    Posted by davetheknave


    I have always questioned Lackey's ego issues.  The calling out of teammates has always been annoying (the positive spin on this would be that he just wears his emotions on his sleeve). And these latest comments in the press fit his m.o.  That said, a.  I don't think these comments are a big deal, and b. I would like to submit this as evidence to the contrary of every Tito basher's favorite line of attack:  Tito coddles his stars.  Tito doesn not coddle his stars.  He does whatever he thinks needs to be done to win games.
     
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    Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee

    He's disappointed and should be. Disgruntled is reaching waaay too much, IMO. You think bringing in Oki was the right call? Saying "I just work here" is fine; I don't view it as calling out his Manager at all.
    Bottom line is he's got a right to be frustrated after his first (and overdue) good outing of the season. Lackey will be OK for the Red Sox. Okijima and Wakefield being on the roster is a flat-out a joke.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee

    Lackey's comments came from frustration.  He wanted to go back out, felt like he had enough to go another inning, and "the boss" told him he wasn't going out for another inning.  Is that really any different from what's happened to any of us in our work when we don't agree with the boss?  The difference, of course, is that Lackey's comment was picked up by the press and ours weren't. 

    Why this may eventually become an issue if this continues is that the Sox don't 
    allow players to publicly vent their frustrations.  The FO wants the Sox to be perceived as one cohesive unit with everyone in agreement with everything that happens.  Lackey needs to learn that that's one of the prices he pays for the money he's getting.  He's allowed to be unhappy, he's just not allowed to verbalize it to the press.  

    As to whether or not Tito coddles his stars I'd say, "Yes", as long as these stars are pitchers.  One of the things I see Tito doing best is making sure the pitchers maintain a good attitude about themselves.  He'd rather pull a pitcher too early than too late.  He'd rather a pitcher go to the bench knowing that he'd had a good outing than knowing that he'd just given up a 3-run homer.  (BTW, I think Dice-K should have gone at least one more inning on Monday but I understand why Tito pulled him.  Dice today feels like he can get the job done whereas had he faltered in the 8th he'd be thinking that it was 'just another bad outing'.)

    If that's someone's definition of "coddling" than I agree that Tito is a coddler, but it works.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee

    Bottom line is he's a tool.  With a lot of money and a very hot wife.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from wherescreamingcomesfrom. Show wherescreamingcomesfrom's posts

    Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee

    I thought that Hale pulled him an inning early last night. Didn't make sense to me. That said, I do get a little tired of his attitude. Did anybody see his gensture when a line drive went past Lowrie's right last night? Didn't quite throw his hands up, but he was close.
    I don't like the guy much, I think he's kind of a bad sport, but I hope he has many more games like last night.
     
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    Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee

    In Response to Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee:
    I thought that Hale pulled him an inning early last night. Didn't make sense to me. That said, I do get a little tired of his attitude. Did anybody see his gensture when a line drive went past Lowrie's right last night? Didn't quite throw his hands up, but he was close. I don't like the guy much, I think he's kind of a bad sport, but I hope he has many more games like last night.
    Posted by wherescreamingcomesfrom
    Always a tough call when to pull a pitcher. He was getting close to max pitch count and it is always a good idea when you can to give a reliever a clean frame with no runners on, it makes their challenges less. And perhaps Hale was thinking that let's get Lackey out now with a really positive performance, let the bullpen get the last 9 outs and score two runs.

    And if we must engage in hindsight it was the 8th inning not the 7th where the game blew up and even if Lackey had not been pulled after 6, his pitch count was such that he wasn't coming back out in the 8th. So his being pulled really wasn't the key moment, Wheeler coming out for a second inning and Oki-being-Oki was were that game turned.

    Living in the LA market it is not unusual for Lackey to act like he has the last few days, he has never had a bad outing only bad luck and thinks his rear should be regularly kissed. Pedro's ego with a whole lot less tool kit.
     
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    Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee

    In Response to Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee:
    In Response to John Lackey, disgruntled employee : I have always questioned Lackey's ego issues.  The calling out of teammates has always been annoying (the positive spin on this would be that he just wears his emotions on his sleeve). And these latest comments in the press fit his m.o.  That said, a.  I don't think these comments are a big deal, and b. I would like to submit this as evidence to the contrary of every Tito basher's favorite line of attack:  Tito coddles his stars.  Tito doesn not coddle his stars.  He does whatever he thinks needs to be done to win games.
    Posted by SpacemanEephus


    Except that Hale was the one who pulled him, because Tito got himself tossed earlier in the game.  I was rather surprised though when they pulled Lackey out of the game with only 93 pitches.

    Is this a new Red Sox philosophy?  Pulling starters with less than 100 pitches?  Is 90 the new 100?  Dice only had 89 pitches when he was pulled.  Of course they may have just been hedging their bets with pitchers who hadn't performed this well yet this year in an attempt to give the pitchers something to build off of for their next outing.
     
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    Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee

    In Response to Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee:
    In Response to Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee : Except that Hale was the one who pulled him, because Tito got himself tossed earlier in the game.  I was rather surprised though when they pulled Lackey out of the game with only 93 pitches. Is this a new Red Sox philosophy?  Pulling starters with less than 100 pitches?  Is 90 the new 100?  Dice only had 89 pitches when he was pulled.  Of course they may have just been hedging their bets with pitchers who hadn't performed this well yet this year in an attempt to give the pitchers something to build off of for their next outing.
    Posted by JB-3


    Yeah, the latter is my guess.  When a guy isn't going good, better to pull them early than erase the mojo that is developed with a good outing.
     
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    Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee

    In Response to Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee:
    In Response to Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee : Yeah, the latter is my guess.  When a guy isn't going good, better to pull them early than erase the mojo that is developed with a good outing.
    Posted by SpacemanEephus


    Made sense with Matsuzaka, but I don't think Lackey needs a confidence booster.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee

    In Response to Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee:
    In Response to Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee : Yeah, the latter is my guess.  When a guy isn't going good, better to pull them early than erase the mojo that is developed with a good outing.
    Posted by SpacemanEephus


    Yeah, and I understand it for Dice's game since it was a big lead, but last night?  A 1 run game, where a guy is pitching well?  It certainly can help the pitcher carry over momentum, but what does that get you, a win down the line, when you're fighting for a win right now?  Not that the Sox went on the score mind you, but I just don't agree with it given the game situation last night.

    93 pitches from a workhorse on extra rest.
     
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    Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee

    Personally I have less of a problem with this than others. When a pitcher is close to his pitch count total I have never seen an issue of not pressing the issue to the point of failure and then asking your bullpen to get you out of a situation with men on base. Better to give that reliever room for their own personal error.

    Now if there is a question to be had it is why Wheeler came out for a second inning and Okajima was then asked to deal with a RISP on nobody out? The problems didn't appear in what would have been Lackey's last inning of work, they appeared in the 8th.


     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee

    In Response to Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee:
    In Response to Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee : Yeah, and I understand it for Dice's game since it was a big lead, but last night?  A 1 run game, where a guy is pitching well?  It certainly can help the pitcher carry over momentum, but what does that get you, a win down the line, when you're fighting for a win right now?  Not that the Sox went on the score mind you, but I just don't agree with it given the game situation last night. 93 pitches from a workhorse on extra rest.
    Posted by JB-3

    Well if I had to wager, I'd bet that Francona was consulted before Lackey was taken out of the game.
    Let's assume that Francona didn't talk with Hale before tha move. Can we assume that Hale acted as he thought Francona would in this situation? He fixed something that wasn't broken.
     
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    Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee

     hey Dave, besides when they played the Sox, did you ever watch Lackey pitch against the Yanks?, man i used to think he was going to have a stroke whenever Scioscia came out to get him...especially if  that hook came after an error.. 
     
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    Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee

    In Response to Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee:
    Personally I have less of a problem with this than others. When a pitcher is close to his pitch count total I have never seen an issue of not pressing the issue to the point of failure and then asking your bullpen to get you out of a situation with men on base. Better to give that reliever room for their own personal error. Now if there is a question to be had it is why Wheeler came out for a second inning and Okajima was then asked to deal with a RISP on nobody out? The problems didn't appear in what would have been Lackey's last inning of work, they appeared in the 8th.
    Posted by fivekatz


    That was the thing that confused me the most about last night.  None of Paps/Bard/Jenks pitched on Monday, so why bring Oki into the 8th inning of a 1 run game?  I think it's obvious that Paps was being held for the 9th, but one of Bard/Jenks must have been available to pitch the 8th from the start.

    I know that some people will say that Wheeler was pitching well, so don't pull him, but I've always been a fan on leaving in a middle reliever for just 1 inning (unless it's a mop up situation).

    In hindsight the Lackey decision didn't cost the team the win, although I still disagree with it.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from doerrman. Show doerrman's posts

    Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee

    nobody handles a pitching staff worse than TITO.
    nobody handles a line-up worse than TITO.

    other than that he's a pretty good manager.
     
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    Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee

    In Response to Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee:
    nobody handles a pitching staff worse than TITO. nobody handles a line-up worse than TITO. other than that he's a pretty good manager.
    Posted by doerrman


    great first post Doerrman.  Offers a lot.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from losmediasloco. Show losmediasloco's posts

    Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee

    Davetheknave in his last ten threads is criticizing Lackey in seven of them. Not one post was positive about anything. It is quite probable that he is a concern troll much like Bosox-11 and company. Another one-trick pony.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from 67redsox. Show 67redsox's posts

    Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee


    agreed spaceman.

    although doer may have a point.  Tito managed the team to two WS rings, how lousy can you get!
     
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    Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee

    What will it take to get Lackey regruntled ?
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee

    In Response to Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee:
    Davetheknave in his last ten threads is criticizing Lackey in seven of them. Not one post was positive about anything. It is quite probable that he is a concern troll much like Bosox-11 and company. Another one-trick pony.
    Posted by losmediasloco

     Lackey should feel proud that he has his own personal trasher on this board.  He is in good company with Ellsbury, Matsuzaka, Drew, Varitek, Wakefield, Lowrie.  That means something special when you can get a person to commit heart and soul to trashing you as much as humanly possible.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BaseballGM. Show BaseballGM's posts

    Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee

    pleasantly surprised that Slackey exceeded my expectations for one start. He's an excuse maker and a bad clubhouse apple, but he's right that he should have been left in to try and complete that 7th inning. Wheeler was great for one inning, but not after that. That might have kept it a one run game through 8.

    Lackey is right on this issue, but he's still a clubhouse big contract bust performing bum.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from doerrman. Show doerrman's posts

    Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee

    ok; i'll offer more.

    nobody handles the press better than TITO.
    nobody follows his GM'S orders better than TITO.
    nobody tries harder to make his players happy  than TITO.
     
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