John Lackey, disgruntled employee

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee

    In Response to Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee : That was the thing that confused me the most about last night.  None of Paps/Bard/Jenks pitched on Monday, so why bring Oki into the 8th inning of a 1 run game?  I think it's obvious that Paps was being held for the 9th, but one of Bard/Jenks must have been available to pitch the 8th from the start. I know that some people will say that Wheeler was pitching well, so don't pull him, but I've always been a fan on leaving in a middle reliever for just 1 inning (unless it's a mop up situation). In hindsight the Lackey decision didn't cost the team the win, although I still disagree with it.
    Posted by JB-3[/QUOTE]I think the day game today and the score dictated that thinking. Hard to use anybody 13 hours later if they warm-up and end up going 20+ pitches deep.

    I too am a fan of giving most relievers when possible a clean frame, so they can work around their own mistakes rather than give up an inherited runner if they hang a curve.

    I have some ideas why Wheeler came back out. The RS are well aware that RH hitters have had great success against Okajima and we were heading into a part of the line-up with some LH hitters. So rather than bring in another RH reliever to get one out, they brought Wheeler back out, who in his career has often pitched more than one frame. The hope was that they could go to LH (Oki) with one out and the bases clean.

    If Oki is supposed to be the guy that is going to get you through a stretch of LH hitters you gotta find out at some point if he can do it in a situation with some leverage. I suppose better to find out trailing on the road late, than leading late. 

    It is some what understandable with the short turnaround and trailing late on the road the RS wanted to get good work from someone besides the end of the pen (Jenks, Bard, Papelbon). I am sure Papelbon was not coming into that game without a lead because of the short turnaround.  
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from losmediasloco. Show losmediasloco's posts

    Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee

    Whenever someone calls him Slackey I think back to being in the 7th grade and playing with YoYos, swinging horse chestnuts on a string, and getting penny candy at the corner store.
     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxdawg08. Show soxdawg08's posts

    Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee

    Lackey has always been a big boo-hoo. He's a "tweeny". Remember the playoffs in '07 (I think), after the Sox took the Halos to school 3-0, how he moaned that Anaheim was a much better team and the Sox were lucky. We should be used to his immature rants by now.     
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from losmediasloco. Show losmediasloco's posts

    Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee

    This is why another forum was created.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee

    In Response to Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee : I think the day game today and the score dictated that thinking. Hard to use anybody 13 hours later if they warm-up and end up going 20+ pitches deep. I too am a fan of giving most relievers when possible a clean frame, so they can work around their own mistakes rather than give up an inherited runner if they hang a curve. I have some ideas why Wheeler came back out. The RS are well aware that RH hitters have had great success against Okajima and we were heading into a part of the line-up with some LH hitters. So rather than bring in another RH reliever to get one out, they brought Wheeler back out, who in his career has often pitched more than one frame. The hope was that they could go to LH (Oki) with one out and the bases clean. If Oki is supposed to be the guy that is going to get you through a stretch of LH hitters you gotta find out at some point if he can do it in a situation with some leverage. I suppose better to find out trailing on the road late, than leading late.  It is some what understandable with the short turnaround and trailing late on the road the RS wanted to get good work from someone besides the end of the pen (Jenks, Bard, Papelbon). I am sure Papelbon was not coming into that game without a lead because of the short turnaround.  
    Posted by fivekatz[/QUOTE]

    That's a really good point, I had forgotten that it's a day game today.  Jenks has also been very effective against LHH's in his career though and would have been a good choice in the 8th.  Additionally the first 2 batters due up in the 8th were switch hitters.  Personally I don't think that Tito would have used Oki in that situation since he is usually gentle (for lack of a better term) when using players who were just called up.  Hale threw Oki into the fire and he got burned.  

    To clarify my earlier statement, Paps was being held for the 9th in the event of a lead.  Bard or Jenks likely would have seen action in a tied game in the bottom of the 9th.  I completely agree with you on that.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee

    Hey look on the bright side only 5 more years of this.  Gotta love the guaranteed long term baseball contracts.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee

    In Response to Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee:
    [QUOTE]Hey look on the bright side only 5 more years of this.  Gotta love the guaranteed long term baseball contracts.
    Posted by tcal2-[/QUOTE]

    By 5 you mean 4 right?  He's under contract through 2014.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimdavis. Show jimdavis's posts

    Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee

    14-11 last year and this season just started and you all are ready to ditch the guy.  God, even when he pitches a gem, its never good enough. I look at that start as a building block to better things going forward.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee

    jim I do appreciate your positive posting but sometimes you gotta be real on assessing the negatives - Lackey is not asset.  Let's just hope he has one of his better years this year.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimdavis. Show jimdavis's posts

    Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee

    In Response to Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee:
    [QUOTE]jim I do appreciate your positive posting but sometimes you gotta be real on assessing the negatives - Lackey is not asset.  Let's just hope he has one of his better years this year.
    Posted by BurritoT[/QUOTE]

    Burrito, I'm just saying that Lackey's value or lack thereof will reveal itself over time.  Last year was year 1 and he had a rough go personnally.  So, I'm going by this year to judge him.  He had 2 rough outings and an excellent one.  I know he will be a horse as far as innings and attitude.  I say give him time to prove himself.  I think he will win many over by years end.
     
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    Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee

    He is capable of having a 15-10 4.00 era season - if he does that he will be a plus.  Let's hope.

    The record is important but as with Derek Lowe - 15+ wins with a 5+ era is not a good year.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee

    Considering how well he pitched last night, and what happened as soon as he came out, I can't say as I wouldn't cut him some slack on this one. I think he should have gone one more inning. If John Lackey "griping" means we get that tenacious, in your face "bull dog" that used to pitch for the Angels, I say open wide and let the griping begin.

     
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    Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee

    Results are key - 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee

    I think John Lackey had a slow start last year but really came on the second half. He had the most Quality starts on the team and easily could have had 3 more wins but the terrible bullpen we had last year lost a few for him. Lackey can give you 200 innings 170-200 K's and keep you in most games. Hes gonna give up some hits too. I dont think he's worth 15.5 mil per, or whatever hes getting, but thats what happens in free agency, You overpay. just look at Crawfords contract. I think hes a great player and happy to have him in Boston, but hes def not worth 20mil per. I think Lackey will probably end up with 14-16 wins and around 10 losses and a 4 era.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee

    In Response to Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee:
    [QUOTE]I think John Lackey had a slow start last year but really came on the second half. He had the most Quality starts on the team and easily could have had 3 more wins but the terrible bullpen we had last year lost a few for him. Lackey can give you 200 innings 170-200 K's and keep you in most games. Hes gonna give up some hits too. I dont think he's worth 15.5 mil per, or whatever hes getting, but thats what happens in free agency, You overpay. just look at Crawfords contract. I think hes a great player and happy to have him in Boston, but hes def not worth 20mil per. I think Lackey will probably end up with 14-16 wins and around 10 losses and a 4 era.
    Posted by southpaw777[/QUOTE]

    Closer to 140-170 K's over 200 innings.  (156 K's last year in 215 IP).  He hasn't exceeded 156 K's since 2007.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimdavis. Show jimdavis's posts

    Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee

    I think this has turned into a good discussion.  To just bash with no balance doesn't work for me.  many base the expectation on the salary being earned.  But as has been pointed out, the salary is the result of past performance and timing.  Same with Crawford, Bay and Werth.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from REDSOX-11. Show REDSOX-11's posts

    Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee

    When a pitcher is doing well and still has life in his arm it is always best to pull him. On the other side when a relief pitcher can't get an out it's better to wait him out, and let him try to dig out of the mess. That is the way Mr Fancona manages. Why be surprised by anything else. If he can mess up a win let's "go for it" is his moto. Hence the poor start by the sox.


    In Response to Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee : Well if I had to wager, I'd bet that Francona was consulted before Lackey was taken out of the game. Let's assume that Francona didn't talk with Hale before tha move. Can we assume that Hale acted as he thought Francona would in this situation? He fixed something that wasn't broken.
    Posted by BOSOX1941[/QUOTE]
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ConcernTroll. Show ConcernTroll's posts

    Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee

    In Response to Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee:
    [QUOTE]When a pitcher is doing well and still has life in his arm it is always best to pull him. On the other side when a relief pitcher can't get an out it's better to wait him out, and let him try to dig out of the mess. That is the way Mr Fancona manages. Why be surprised by anything else. If he can mess up a win let's "go for it" is his moto. Hence the poor start by the sox. In Response to Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee :
    Posted by REDSOX-11[/QUOTE]

    http://www.rainbowpatches.com/2008/red_parrot_on_computer_hg_clr.gif
     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Diamondtalk. Show Diamondtalk's posts

    Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee

    Lackey had a few blowups and rolling of eyes on the field last year when teammates committed an error.     Let's hope he's over that kind of scenario.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from glumandrew. Show glumandrew's posts

    Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee

    In Response to Re: John Lackey, disgruntled employee:
    [QUOTE]Girardi's only mistake this year was leaving Mariano in there too late the other and then he compounded it with bringing in Nova and then Nova was left in too long. A night that Girardi pushed all of the wrong buttons. But you are completely right that Tito has been wrong on every single move that he has made since 2004 and your fanbase is blind to it.
    Posted by MikeyinQueens[/QUOTE]

    You and our Quack Doctor BaseballDr should get a room together. Get two double beds since Bosox1941 and Bosox-11 will be coming along also.
     

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