Jon Lester is not out of the woods just yet

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Jon Lester is not out of the woods just yet

    Thats not correct Breidey. Verlander's fastball is listed at 93.3 and Lester is listed at 92.0 as of right now.

     

    I suspect Lester is listed as #1 or thereabouts. How many innings you pitch does not matter as much as the quality of those innings. Would you rather have Lester or Verlander or Felix on your team? Why?

    1-My numbers are from FG.

    2-I would rather have Verlander or Felix, but I wasn't the one that brought up the subject of Lester's loss of velocity.  You had the concern about his velocity.  I addressed that concern.

    3-Now, if a drop in velocity is such a concern for you, why would you want Verlander or Felix, who have had bigger drops in velocity?

     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Jon Lester is not out of the woods just yet

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    According to Gameday, 4 of the pitches Lester threw to the game's last hitter were at 94.  And he was over 110 pitches at that point.  This was a very encouraging game for Lester.



    What a huge game.  For as crappy as we've played over the past week, the front four of our rotation have pitched very well.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Jon Lester is not out of the woods just yet

    Lester is 5-0 with a 2.73 ERA.......I would say that is safely out of the woods.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Jon Lester is not out of the woods just yet

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

     

    Lester is 5-0 with a 2.73 ERA.......I would say that is safely out of the woods.

     

    He saw the forest for the trees

     




     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Jon Lester is not out of the woods just yet

    In response to J-BAY's comment:

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

     

    Lester is 5-0 with a 2.73 ERA.......I would say that is safely out of the woods.

     

    He saw the forest for the trees

     They keep talking about his velocity. His velocity was good enough. The important thing was the movement and the location.   Nothing down the middle. Velocity without location is not going to work. We saw that with Webster the other night.




     




     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Jon Lester is not out of the woods just yet

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    Thats not correct Breidey. Verlander's fastball is listed at 93.3 and Lester is listed at 92.0 as of right now.

     

    I suspect Lester is listed as #1 or thereabouts. How many innings you pitch does not matter as much as the quality of those innings. Would you rather have Lester or Verlander or Felix on your team? Why?

    1-My numbers are from FG.

    2-I would rather have Verlander or Felix, but I wasn't the one that brought up the subject of Lester's loss of velocity.  You had the concern about his velocity.  I addressed that concern.

    3-Now, if a drop in velocity is such a concern for you, why would you want Verlander or Felix, who have had bigger drops in velocity?



    My numbers are also from Fangraphs. Here is the report on Verlander showing his average 2013 fastball is 93.3:

    http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=8700&position=P

    Here is the report on Lester showing his average 2013 fastball is 92.0:

    http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=4930&position=P

    In answer to your third point, I would always want the more effective pitcher. Greg Maddux (and others) was never flamethrower, but he was more effective than Lester at his peak, finishing his career with an ERA of 3.16 overall. If Lester could learn to locate like Maddux could he could also be a great pitcher. However, he has to learn how to pitch now rather than throw.

     

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Jon Lester is not out of the woods just yet

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    Lester is 5-0 with a 2.73 ERA.......I would say that is safely out of the woods.



    This was truly a masterpiece; no denying that. However, its only one game. His previous three starts were not very good. Its still too early for me to pronounce him "out of the woods"-not that I don't hope he is because I do.

     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Jon Lester is not out of the woods just yet

    " No character. Moonslav wants quantity instead of sincerity, honesty, or sincerity."

    If this was forum was a pro basketball game, Moonslav would be Kareem Abdul Jabbar and you'd be Brian Scalabrine. If it was football, he'd be Aaron Rodgers and you'd be Ryan Leaf. It was was baseball, he'd be Ted Williams and you'd be Hensley Meulens.

    Moonslav has offered more on-topic baseball content in a week than you have combined in all of your posts in all of your personas - ever.

    As for Lester, Pumpsie is definitely over-reacting, but there is legit reasons to expect Lester to prove it over the course of a season. I wouldn't have started a thread on it, but then I thought our relief pitching would be excellent and now I"m missing Papelbon again....

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Jon Lester is not out of the woods just yet

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

     

    Lester is 5-0 with a 2.73 ERA.......I would say that is safely out of the woods.

     



    This was truly a masterpiece; no denying that. However, its only one game. His previous three starts were not very good. Its still too early for me to pronounce him "out of the woods"-not that I don't hope he is because I do.

     



    A bit of an overstatement.

    His first four starts and this start were good to great.

    Of those other three starts two were mediocre (6 IP, 3 ER, 5.2 IP, 3 ER) and one was bad (6 IP, 5 ER).

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Jon Lester is not out of the woods just yet

    FWIW, Lester now has a 3.59 ERA in his last 20 starts.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: Jon Lester is not out of the woods just yet

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

     

    Lester is 5-0 with a 2.73 ERA.......I would say that is safely out of the woods.

     



    This was truly a masterpiece; no denying that. However, its only one game. His previous three starts were not very good. Its still too early for me to pronounce him "out of the woods"-not that I don't hope he is because I do.

     




    I would say it was one rocky start, one poor start. one okay start, and one excellent start. Compare those starts to the rest of the season and there really isn't cause for concern.

     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Jon Lester is not out of the woods just yet

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

     

    Thats not correct Breidey. Verlander's fastball is listed at 93.3 and Lester is listed at 92.0 as of right now.

     

    I suspect Lester is listed as #1 or thereabouts. How many innings you pitch does not matter as much as the quality of those innings. Would you rather have Lester or Verlander or Felix on your team? Why?

    1-My numbers are from FG.

    2-I would rather have Verlander or Felix, but I wasn't the one that brought up the subject of Lester's loss of velocity.  You had the concern about his velocity.  I addressed that concern.

    3-Now, if a drop in velocity is such a concern for you, why would you want Verlander or Felix, who have had bigger drops in velocity?

     



    My numbers are also from Fangraphs. Here is the report on Verlander showing his average 2013 fastball is 93.3:

     

    http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=8700&position=P

    Here is the report on Lester showing his average 2013 fastball is 92.0:

    http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=4930&position=P

    In answer to your third point, I would always want the more effective pitcher. Greg Maddux (and others) was never flamethrower, but he was more effective than Lester at his peak, finishing his career with an ERA of 3.16 overall. If Lester could learn to locate like Maddux could he could also be a great pitcher. However, he has to learn how to pitch now rather than throw.

     

     



    I took my data from the same pages, but two sections up from your yours.  It would the numbers in the ( ).

    IRT the rest, no one is saying that Lester is better than Maddux in his prime.  He is a 1st ballot HOF, imo.  You started the thread with a concern for Lester's velocity, not a comparison between Lester and three HOF prospects.

    I think I can speak for the rest of the group in saying that, if Lester's biggest issue is that he doesn't quite measure up to Verlander, Felix, and Maddux, then we don't have much of a problem.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazyworldoftroybrown. Show crazyworldoftroybrown's posts

    Re: Jon Lester is not out of the woods just yet

    Consistency thats what I want to see. Great game last night, now build on it. Low pitch count in early innings, is so important to Lester.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Jon Lester is not out of the woods just yet

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In his last three starts Lester has pitching 17.2 innings and surrendered 11 earned runs. Thats  an ERA of 5.60. Prior to that he had pitched exactly four good game this year-following a year where he pitched poorly with an ERA of 4.82. His fastball velocity is down again this year to 91.9, down from 92.0 last year, which was down from 92.6 in 2011, which is down from 93.5 in 2010. See the pattern? Once a pitcher loses velocity off his fastball it is rarely regained, unless that loss is due to injury.

    Unfortunately, he is far from out of the woods. Yes he had a fast start, but today's mediocre performance does little to inspire confidence in him. His prorated ERA for today was 4.50, which is very near the average ERA for the AL. Lester IMO is a serviceable #3 SP, but not more than that. Its certainly tempting to look at his first four games this year and get giddy about his "return to form", but his last three games clearly demonstrate that he is most certainly not out of the woods, no matter how much we all wish he were.



    I was really proud of Lester last night after a couple frustrating outings.  I'm also glad Salty had two hits, having some consistent offense out of the catching position will help this team a great deal.  I know some disagree with me but it means a lot to the entire lineup and opposing pitching staff to know Salty won't necessarily be an easy out.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Jon Lester is not out of the woods just yet

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

     

    Thats not correct Breidey. Verlander's fastball is listed at 93.3 and Lester is listed at 92.0 as of right now.

     

    I suspect Lester is listed as #1 or thereabouts. How many innings you pitch does not matter as much as the quality of those innings. Would you rather have Lester or Verlander or Felix on your team? Why?

    1-My numbers are from FG.

    2-I would rather have Verlander or Felix, but I wasn't the one that brought up the subject of Lester's loss of velocity.  You had the concern about his velocity.  I addressed that concern.

    3-Now, if a drop in velocity is such a concern for you, why would you want Verlander or Felix, who have had bigger drops in velocity?

     



    My numbers are also from Fangraphs. Here is the report on Verlander showing his average 2013 fastball is 93.3:

     

    http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=8700&position=P

    Here is the report on Lester showing his average 2013 fastball is 92.0:

    http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=4930&position=P

    In answer to your third point, I would always want the more effective pitcher. Greg Maddux (and others) was never flamethrower, but he was more effective than Lester at his peak, finishing his career with an ERA of 3.16 overall. If Lester could learn to locate like Maddux could he could also be a great pitcher. However, he has to learn how to pitch now rather than throw.

     

     

     



    I took my data from the same pages, but two sections up from your yours.  It would the numbers in the ( ).

     

    IRT the rest, no one is saying that Lester is better than Maddux in his prime.  He is a 1st ballot HOF, imo.  You started the thread with a concern for Lester's velocity, not a comparison between Lester and three HOF prospects.

    I think I can speak for the rest of the group in saying that, if Lester's biggest issue is that he doesn't quite measure up to Verlander, Felix, and Maddux, then we don't have much of a problem.




    Actually I started the tread out of concern for Lester's overall performance, citing his reduced velocity over the years as a factor that might make it more difficult for him to regain the form that made him a very good pitcher prior to last year. So far this year he is on the right track despite three subpar games in a row prior to last night. If he can keep his ERA under 4 that would be fine with me. I do not think he is "ace" material over a whole season.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from bosoxmal. Show bosoxmal's posts

    Re: Jon Lester is not out of the woods just yet

    Stop it!!!! The last Robot we saw on a pitcher's mound was Roger and he was souped to the eyeballs. The days of Feller, Grove and Walter Johnson went down the drain with the left over suger drinks! If you looked sideways at Lefty Gomez he was invisable.

    Give todays pitchers a little credit when they have winning records, let alone shutouts. They were disadvantaged from the first time mommy took them to McDonalds.

     

     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Jon Lester is not out of the woods just yet

    6-0, 2.72.

     
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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Jon Lester is not out of the woods just yet

    this makes my Cleveland post look like Nostradamas

     
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