Jon Lester is not out of the woods just yet

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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Jon Lester is not out of the woods just yet

    In response to Iowasoxfann's comment:

    Cherry picking here? Most thought that Lester had a very good first six weeks. All season long he had only that one bad spell of six weeks in late May and June. The bahing however was consistent all year long by Pumpsie Green.




    yes pike it was. Some of us choose to look at it a little closer and realize that from 5/20-6/27 Jon Lester was awful. The time before and after his numbers suggest that of a TOTR starter with a sub 3 ERA. Hes making some adjustments to his pitching and his attitude that are helping him change into more of a pitcher than a thrower. Like ive been saying all year, Jon Lester will remain a front line starter and will come out the other end of this transition a more complete pitcher.

     
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    Re: Jon Lester is not out of the woods just yet


    I am somewhat stunned by Lester's latest uptick, not because it happened so much as how it happened.  I thought he was throwing too many fastballs and cutters, but it turns out the fastball is a good pitch when he spots it well.  Good for him.  I watched most of his pitches last night and don't recall seeing a single changeup, which I insisted was the one pitch he needed to throw a lot more.  I am humbled, but delighted for Lester. 

     
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    Re: Jon Lester is not out of the woods just yet

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to Iowasoxfann's comment:

     

    Cherry picking here? Most thought that Lester had a very good first six weeks. All season long he had only that one bad spell of six weeks in late May and June. The bahing however was consistent all year long by Pumpsie Green.

     




    yes pike it was. Some of us choose to look at it a little closer and realize that from 5/20-6/27 Jon Lester was awful. The time before and after his numbers suggest that of a TOTR starter with a sub 3 ERA. Hes making some adjustments to his pitching and his attitude that are helping him change into more of a pitcher than a thrower. Like ive been saying all year, Jon Lester will remain a front line starter and will come out the other end of this transition a more complete pitcher.

     



    Every single poster here who quotes stats cherry picks, including you. You cannot discount the fact that from April 24 to Aug 2 his ERA was 5.18. Thats a period of almost 3 1/2 months, most of the season. During the other time intervals he has been very good. This means that he is INCONSISTENT, more so than most other pitchers that are considered "good" who  may have a bad game or two before regaining their form. You may be sold on Jon Lester; I am not. Not yet. Not until he pitches well for as long as he pitched poorly.

     
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    Re: Jon Lester is not out of the woods just yet

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to Iowasoxfann's comment:

     

    Cherry picking here? Most thought that Lester had a very good first six weeks. All season long he had only that one bad spell of six weeks in late May and June. The bahing however was consistent all year long by Pumpsie Green.

     




    yes pike it was. Some of us choose to look at it a little closer and realize that from 5/20-6/27 Jon Lester was awful. The time before and after his numbers suggest that of a TOTR starter with a sub 3 ERA. Hes making some adjustments to his pitching and his attitude that are helping him change into more of a pitcher than a thrower. Like ive been saying all year, Jon Lester will remain a front line starter and will come out the other end of this transition a more complete pitcher.

     

     



    Every single poster here who quotes stats cherry picks, including you. You cannot discount the fact that from April 24 to Aug 2 his ERA was 5.18. Thats a period of almost 3 1/2 months, most of the season. During the other time intervals he has been very good. This means that he is INCONSISTENT, more so than most other pitchers that are considered "good" who  may have a bad game or two before regaining their form. You may be sold on Jon Lester; I am not. Not yet. Not until he pitches well for as long as he pitched poorly.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    I listed his whole years stats and broke them up related to how he has pitched. How is THAT cherry picking PG? At least I used EVERY start from him this year. I proved that for a 5-6 week period he was awful and his ERA was inflated greatly during that one month period. The rest of the time he was pretty consistent. You picked a smaller period of time than I did and claim that I cherry pick? 3.5 months hes been consistent, 1.5 not so much. The facts are a lot clearer the way I break it up than the way you choose to do it. I realize my more thorough way doesnt help your arguemnet, but it paints a much much clearer picture.

    You use ERA over a specific time period and thats it. How about looking a bit deeper into each outing like I did and then break up the year to show EXACTLY when he was inconsistent. I used all of his starts this year and showed exactly what I said. YOU cherry picked a time period and ONE stat that helps your arguement and acuse me of it? Please.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Jon Lester is not out of the woods just yet

    I listed his whole years stats and broke them up related to how he has pitched. How is THAT cherry picking PG? At least I used EVERY start from him this year. I proved that for a 5-6 week period he was awful and his ERA was inflated greatly during that one month period. The rest of the time he was pretty consistent. You picked a smaller period of time than I did and claim that I cherry pick? 3.5 months hes been consistent, 1.5 not so much. The facts are a lot clearer the way I break it up than the way you choose to do it. I realize my more thorough way doesnt help your arguemnet, but it paints a much much clearer picture.

     

    You use ERA over a specific time period and thats it. How about looking a bit deeper into each outing like I did and then break up the year to show EXACTLY when he was inconsistent. I used all of his starts this year and showed exactly what I said. YOU cherry picked a time period and ONE stat that helps your arguement and acuse me of it? Please.

    I could use a different time period to show his inconsistency if you like. There are lots of them. Like I said, EVERYONE here cherry picks, including you. You think that your cherry picking is more accurate than mine; I think that mine is a better way of looking at things than yours. I showed you that for over three months Lester stunk. You broke it up a different way. You cannot excuse a few bad starts any more than you can eliminate some of his better efforts. My point is that he has not been a consistently good SP all year, though his total body of work to date has been acceptable (ie, using ALL his starts this year as the time period of choice he has done OK). You are sold on Lester and use your stats to back up that opinion; I am not sold on him and I use stats that I think show his inconsistency to support my position. All the stats are valid. The rest is a matter of opinion.

    WE ARE ALL JUST POPPYSEEDS IN THE BAKERY OF LIFE

     
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    Re: Jon Lester is not out of the woods just yet

    This Fat Cat Ace has been in the woods?

     

     
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    Re: Jon Lester is not out of the woods just yet

    AHAHAHAHAHAHA

     

     
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    Re: Jon Lester is not out of the woods just yet

    This is how smart Pumpsie is.

     

    "Its entirely too easy to have your opinion of "our" Red Sox players tainted by irrational exuberance; its a natural part of being a fan. Everyone here, or at least most everyone, WISHES Lester was a real ace and that he has turned around his dreadful performance of last year, but I say PROVE IT. With the loss of velocity he has had I cannot see him being much more than a #3-4 SP for the remainder of his career with the team."

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Jon Lester is not out of the woods just yet

    In response to sycophant123's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    This is how smart Pumpsie is.

     

    "Its entirely too easy to have your opinion of "our" Red Sox players tainted by irrational exuberance; its a natural part of being a fan. Everyone here, or at least most everyone, WISHES Lester was a real ace and that he has turned around his dreadful performance of last year, but I say PROVE IT. With the loss of velocity he has had I cannot see him being much more than a #3-4 SP for the remainder of his career with the team."

    [/QUOTE]

    Thank you for proving my point. Only an idiot sticks to their hypothesis regardless of changing circumstances. I have said over and over again that we should have re-signed Lester this offseason. His performance improved; my opinion changed.

    The performance of the Red Sox over the past six years has gone downhill, yet your deluded perception of them remains the same. I appreciate your bringing this thread back as further evidence of your stupidity.

    WE ARE ALL JUST POPPYSEEDS IN THE BAKERY OF LIFE

     

     
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    Re: Jon Lester is not out of the woods just yet

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:


    In response to sycophant123's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    This is how smart Pumpsie is.


     


    "Its entirely too easy to have your opinion of "our" Red Sox players tainted by irrational exuberance; its a natural part of being a fan. Everyone here, or at least most everyone, WISHES Lester was a real ace and that he has turned around his dreadful performance of last year, but I say PROVE IT. With the loss of velocity he has had I cannot see him being much more than a #3-4 SP for the remainder of his career with the team."




    Thank you for proving my point. Only an idiot sticks to their hypothesis regardless of changing circumstances. I have said over and over again that we should have re-signed Lester this offseason. His performance improved; my opinion changed.


    The performance of the Red Sox over the past six years has gone downhill, yet your deluded perception of them remains the same. I appreciate your bringing this thread back as further evidence of your stupidity.


    WE ARE ALL JUST POPPYSEEDS IN THE BAKERY OF LIFE


     


    [/QUOTE]

    umm yeah. cool glad you like it. Actually only an idiot freaks out about something short term without thinking of long term.


    That is what you do. All the time.


    Relax old man. take a nap.


     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Jon Lester is not out of the woods just yet

    In response to sycophant123's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to sycophant123's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    This is how smart Pumpsie is.

     

    "Its entirely too easy to have your opinion of "our" Red Sox players tainted by irrational exuberance; its a natural part of being a fan. Everyone here, or at least most everyone, WISHES Lester was a real ace and that he has turned around his dreadful performance of last year, but I say PROVE IT. With the loss of velocity he has had I cannot see him being much more than a #3-4 SP for the remainder of his career with the team."

    [/QUOTE]

    Thank you for proving my point. Only an idiot sticks to their hypothesis regardless of changing circumstances. I have said over and over again that we should have re-signed Lester this offseason. His performance improved; my opinion changed.

    The performance of the Red Sox over the past six years has gone downhill, yet your deluded perception of them remains the same. I appreciate your bringing this thread back as further evidence of your stupidity.

    WE ARE ALL JUST POPPYSEEDS IN THE BAKERY OF LIFE

     

    [/QUOTE]

    umm yeah. cool glad you like it.

    you seem really mad now.

    grr.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    No more angry that I could become if I were to debate an amoeba. Seems your opinion is that if a player is not performing and someone points that out, its invalid to see that the player has improved and adjusts his opinion. As I said, only an idiot would not see the change and adjust his opinion. As I said, your dredging up this thread just proves what I already knew about you.

    WE ARE ALL JUST POPPYSEEDS IN THE BAKERY OF LIFE

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Jon Lester is not out of the woods just yet

    I was wondering where this was.  I thought I was at my best explaining loss of velocity and small sample sizes.

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from sycophant123. Show sycophant123's posts

    Re: Jon Lester is not out of the woods just yet

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to sycophant123's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to sycophant123's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    This is how smart Pumpsie is.

     

    "Its entirely too easy to have your opinion of "our" Red Sox players tainted by irrational exuberance; its a natural part of being a fan. Everyone here, or at least most everyone, WISHES Lester was a real ace and that he has turned around his dreadful performance of last year, but I say PROVE IT. With the loss of velocity he has had I cannot see him being much more than a #3-4 SP for the remainder of his career with the team."

    [/QUOTE]

    Thank you for proving my point. Only an idiot sticks to their hypothesis regardless of changing circumstances. I have said over and over again that we should have re-signed Lester this offseason. His performance improved; my opinion changed.

    The performance of the Red Sox over the past six years has gone downhill, yet your deluded perception of them remains the same. I appreciate your bringing this thread back as further evidence of your stupidity.

    WE ARE ALL JUST POPPYSEEDS IN THE BAKERY OF LIFE

     

    [/QUOTE]

    umm yeah. cool glad you like it.

    you seem really mad now.

    grr.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    No more angry that I could become if I were to debate an amoeba. Seems your opinion is that if a player is not performing and someone points that out, its invalid to see that the player has improved and adjusts his opinion. As I said, only an idiot would not see the change and adjust his opinion. As I said, your dredging up this thread just proves what I already knew about you.

    WE ARE ALL JUST POPPYSEEDS IN THE BAKERY OF LIFE

     

    [/QUOTE]
    The obvious point, which you are too hysterical to understand, is that you freak out all the time, and you are wrong almost always.

    Last year you said the Red Sox season was over in May, and you said Lester was a number 4.

    This year you are stinking up your diaper about something else. You have no ability to think long term, nor can you remember the recent past. You call people childish names to try to deflect from your ignorance. I could go on...

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Jon Lester is not out of the woods just yet

    In response to sycophant123's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to sycophant123's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to sycophant123's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    This is how smart Pumpsie is.

     

    "Its entirely too easy to have your opinion of "our" Red Sox players tainted by irrational exuberance; its a natural part of being a fan. Everyone here, or at least most everyone, WISHES Lester was a real ace and that he has turned around his dreadful performance of last year, but I say PROVE IT. With the loss of velocity he has had I cannot see him being much more than a #3-4 SP for the remainder of his career with the team."

    [/QUOTE]

    Thank you for proving my point. Only an idiot sticks to their hypothesis regardless of changing circumstances. I have said over and over again that we should have re-signed Lester this offseason. His performance improved; my opinion changed.

    The performance of the Red Sox over the past six years has gone downhill, yet your deluded perception of them remains the same. I appreciate your bringing this thread back as further evidence of your stupidity.

    WE ARE ALL JUST POPPYSEEDS IN THE BAKERY OF LIFE

     

    [/QUOTE]

    umm yeah. cool glad you like it.

    you seem really mad now.

    grr.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    No more angry that I could become if I were to debate an amoeba. Seems your opinion is that if a player is not performing and someone points that out, its invalid to see that the player has improved and adjusts his opinion. As I said, only an idiot would not see the change and adjust his opinion. As I said, your dredging up this thread just proves what I already knew about you.

    WE ARE ALL JUST POPPYSEEDS IN THE BAKERY OF LIFE

     

    [/QUOTE]
    The obvious point, which you are too hysterical to understand, is that you freak out all the time, and you are wrong almost always.

    Last year you said the Red Sox season was over in May, and you said Lester was a number 4.

    This year you are stinking up your diaper about something else. You have no ability to think long term, nor can you remember the recent past. You call people childish names to try to deflect from your ignorance. I could go on...

    [/QUOTE]

    The obvious point, which you are too hysterical to understand, is that you freak out all the time, and you are wrong almost always.


    Typical of someone losing the debate. What is obvious to any sane person is that just because a traffic light is green when you approach it does not mean that it is going to stay green. Similarly, just because Lester was not performing well at one point in time does not mean that he will always perform poorly. When that happens logical individuals change their opinions. And likewise, when the team is performing well (04-07) it does not mean that the team will always perform well. In point of fact, since 09 the team is headed south and the results have not been good. They haven't even been acceptable and my guess is that you will hear the FO admit that before too long as they promise to turn it around. Those posters with their heads in the sand will continue to insist that nothing is wrong, that the team is doing great.

    I certainly appreciate you dredging up this thread as it solidly makes my point.

    WE ARE ALL JUST POPPYSEEDS IN THE BAKERY OF LIFE

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from sycophant123. Show sycophant123's posts

    Re: Jon Lester is not out of the woods just yet

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to sycophant123's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to sycophant123's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to sycophant123's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    This is how smart Pumpsie is.

     

    "Its entirely too easy to have your opinion of "our" Red Sox players tainted by irrational exuberance; its a natural part of being a fan. Everyone here, or at least most everyone, WISHES Lester was a real ace and that he has turned around his dreadful performance of last year, but I say PROVE IT. With the loss of velocity he has had I cannot see him being much more than a #3-4 SP for the remainder of his career with the team."

    [/QUOTE]

    Thank you for proving my point. Only an idiot sticks to their hypothesis regardless of changing circumstances. I have said over and over again that we should have re-signed Lester this offseason. His performance improved; my opinion changed.

    The performance of the Red Sox over the past six years has gone downhill, yet your deluded perception of them remains the same. I appreciate your bringing this thread back as further evidence of your stupidity.

    WE ARE ALL JUST POPPYSEEDS IN THE BAKERY OF LIFE

     

    [/QUOTE]

    umm yeah. cool glad you like it.

    you seem really mad now.

    grr.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    No more angry that I could become if I were to debate an amoeba. Seems your opinion is that if a player is not performing and someone points that out, its invalid to see that the player has improved and adjusts his opinion. As I said, only an idiot would not see the change and adjust his opinion. As I said, your dredging up this thread just proves what I already knew about you.

    WE ARE ALL JUST POPPYSEEDS IN THE BAKERY OF LIFE

     

    [/QUOTE]
    The obvious point, which you are too hysterical to understand, is that you freak out all the time, and you are wrong almost always.

    Last year you said the Red Sox season was over in May, and you said Lester was a number 4.

    This year you are stinking up your diaper about something else. You have no ability to think long term, nor can you remember the recent past. You call people childish names to try to deflect from your ignorance. I could go on...

    [/QUOTE]

    The obvious point, which you are too hysterical to understand, is that you freak out all the time, and you are wrong almost always.


    Typical of someone losing the debate. What is obvious to any sane person is that just because a traffic light is green when you approach it does not mean that it is going to stay green. Similarly, just because Lester was not performing well at one point in time does not mean that he will always perform poorly. When that happens logical individuals change their opinions. And likewise, when the team is performing well (04-07) it does not mean that the team will always perform well. In point of fact, since 09 the team is headed south and the results have not been good. They haven't even been acceptable and my guess is that you will hear the FO admit that before too long as they promise to turn it around. Those posters with their heads in the sand will continue to insist that nothing is wrong, that the team is doing great.

    I certainly appreciate you dredging up this thread as it solidly makes my point.

    WE ARE ALL JUST POPPYSEEDS IN THE BAKERY OF LIFE

     

    [/QUOTE]

    You really have a hard time with these things don't you?

    Lester is a good pitcher, he always has been. You started to cry and freak out after he had a few bad starts last year. This shows that you are prone to panic, and possibly to depression.

    the same has happened this year. The Red Sox won the WS last year, this year they stink. In my opinion you soiling yourself and crying about the fact that they stink makes you a whiny entitled baby that is prone to panic. 

    Here is the point that your sad old mind can not grasp. I do not know whether or not the Red Sox will perform well in the future. Neither do you. 

    I just can't summon up the anger and despair that you can less than a year removed from a WS win. I do congratulate you for acknowledging your issues with anger and depression. It is a good first step.

     
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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Jon Lester is not out of the woods just yet

    In response to sycophant123's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to sycophant123's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to sycophant123's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to sycophant123's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    This is how smart Pumpsie is.

     

    "Its entirely too easy to have your opinion of "our" Red Sox players tainted by irrational exuberance; its a natural part of being a fan. Everyone here, or at least most everyone, WISHES Lester was a real ace and that he has turned around his dreadful performance of last year, but I say PROVE IT. With the loss of velocity he has had I cannot see him being much more than a #3-4 SP for the remainder of his career with the team."

    [/QUOTE]

    Thank you for proving my point. Only an idiot sticks to their hypothesis regardless of changing circumstances. I have said over and over again that we should have re-signed Lester this offseason. His performance improved; my opinion changed.

    The performance of the Red Sox over the past six years has gone downhill, yet your deluded perception of them remains the same. I appreciate your bringing this thread back as further evidence of your stupidity.

    WE ARE ALL JUST POPPYSEEDS IN THE BAKERY OF LIFE

     

    [/QUOTE]

    umm yeah. cool glad you like it.

    you seem really mad now.

    grr.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    No more angry that I could become if I were to debate an amoeba. Seems your opinion is that if a player is not performing and someone points that out, its invalid to see that the player has improved and adjusts his opinion. As I said, only an idiot would not see the change and adjust his opinion. As I said, your dredging up this thread just proves what I already knew about you.

    WE ARE ALL JUST POPPYSEEDS IN THE BAKERY OF LIFE

     

    [/QUOTE]
    The obvious point, which you are too hysterical to understand, is that you freak out all the time, and you are wrong almost always.

    Last year you said the Red Sox season was over in May, and you said Lester was a number 4.

    This year you are stinking up your diaper about something else. You have no ability to think long term, nor can you remember the recent past. You call people childish names to try to deflect from your ignorance. I could go on...

    [/QUOTE]

    The obvious point, which you are too hysterical to understand, is that you freak out all the time, and you are wrong almost always.


    Typical of someone losing the debate. What is obvious to any sane person is that just because a traffic light is green when you approach it does not mean that it is going to stay green. Similarly, just because Lester was not performing well at one point in time does not mean that he will always perform poorly. When that happens logical individuals change their opinions. And likewise, when the team is performing well (04-07) it does not mean that the team will always perform well. In point of fact, since 09 the team is headed south and the results have not been good. They haven't even been acceptable and my guess is that you will hear the FO admit that before too long as they promise to turn it around. Those posters with their heads in the sand will continue to insist that nothing is wrong, that the team is doing great.

    I certainly appreciate you dredging up this thread as it solidly makes my point.

    WE ARE ALL JUST POPPYSEEDS IN THE BAKERY OF LIFE

     

    [/QUOTE]

    You really have a hard time with these things don't you?

    Lester is a good pitcher, he always has been. You started to cry and freak out after he had a few bad starts last year. This shows that you are prone to panic, and possibly to depression.

    the same has happened this year. The Red Sox won the WS last year, this year they stink. In my opinion you soiling yourself and crying about the fact that they stink makes you a whiny entitled baby that is prone to panic. 

    Here is the point that your sad old mind can not grasp. I do not know whether or not the Red Sox will perform well in the future. Neither do you. 

    I just can't summon up the anger and despair that you can less than a year removed from a WS win. I do congratulate you for acknowledging your issues with anger and depression. It is a good first step.

    [/QUOTE]

    I will try it one more time in terms so simple perhaps you can understand them. After that, I will have had enough fun with you. 

    Lester underperformed for an entire season and then some. It was entirely possible for him to continue to underperform. He turned it around, and the opinions of reasonable individuals about him also changed. You see, things DO change. One cannot say, for example, that Cliff Lee was a good pitcher for many years and therefore he will always be a good pitcher. Things change. The Red Sox were a good team for four years; then they began going south. If we continue on our current course in 2014 we will average 9.5 wins per year fewer in the past six years than we did in the previous six. Not a good business plan; not what any reasonable individual would call "success". Six years; five years of which were failures. Think it over.

    WE ARE ALL JUST POPPYSEEDS IN THE BAKERY OF LIFE

     

     

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