Jon Lester may very well be the best pitcher in the game right now...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Jon Lester may very well be the best pitcher in the game right now...

    If Beckett keeps pitching like he has so far this year, you could include him into the discussion. He's been about as good as Lester this year.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Jon Lester may very well be the best pitcher in the game right now...

    In Response to Re: Jon Lester may very well be the best pitcher in the game right now...:
    Spaceman, not sure what you mean by lengthy spells of mediocrity. Starting with the 2008 season, his only truly bad months have been Apr/May and then been a stud every month after. For whatever reason it took him 4-6 weeks to get into a rhythm but if he has finally realized the season starts in April and not May or June, we’re in for a treat because he’s never really struggled in the later months.   For reference just look at his monthly splits from 2008 to 2010.
    Posted by lvanDrago


    Ivan - Yes, my apologies for the overstatement.  Lengthy, besides the traditional poor starts, is an overstatement.  As is the term mediocrity.  But, the difference, between a Cy Young and "one of the best" is a. the poor starts (already remedied) and a 3-4 start swoon or two in the height of summer or early autumn.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Babe-1. Show Babe-1's posts

    Re: Jon Lester may very well be the best pitcher in the game right now...

    In Response to Re: Jon Lester may very well be the best pitcher in the game right now...:
    In Response to Re: Jon Lester may very well be the best pitcher in the game right now... : It says "right now".  As the Cy Young voters realize, 20 wins is not the best measure of the best pitcher.  Winning 20 games has more to do with how the team does than how well you pitch.

    Posted by jimdavis

    Yes...damn all those over rated 20 game winners!!

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from byebyeepstein. Show byebyeepstein's posts

    Re: Jon Lester may very well be the best pitcher in the game right now...

    well babe, when it comes to overrated 20 game winners, no one was more overrated than PETTITTE.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Babe-1. Show Babe-1's posts

    Re: Jon Lester may very well be the best pitcher in the game right now...

    In Response to Re: Jon Lester may very well be the best pitcher in the game right now...:
    In Response to Re: Jon Lester may very well be the best pitcher in the game right now... : Great point. Winning 20 is much easier to do on a team like the Yankees than on Kansas City but you can be sure that Babe will have trouble understanding that concept.

    Posted by pike

    Since when does lester pitch for the royals?

    Not to mention the royals have a better record than the red flops.

     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from mikeyinthebronx. Show mikeyinthebronx's posts

    Re: Jon Lester may very well be the best pitcher in the game right now...

    In Response to Re: Jon Lester may very well be the best pitcher in the game right now...:
    In Response to Re: Jon Lester may very well be the best pitcher in the game right now... : Great point. Winning 20 is much easier to do on a team like the Yankees than on Kansas City but you can be sure that Babe will have trouble understanding that concept.
    Posted by pike


    Winning 20 on the Red Sox is also easier than winning 20 on Kansas City as the Red Sox have been winning many games for years now.  No doubt Lester is one of the best pitchers in baseball, whether he is THE BEST in all of baseball is another story.  He is in the top tier but probably not No. 1, he may be at some point just not right now.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from newenglanderinexile. Show newenglanderinexile's posts

    Re: Jon Lester may very well be the best pitcher in the game right now...

    In Response to Re: Jon Lester may very well be the best pitcher in the game right now...:
    You would think that the "best pitcher in the game" would have won 20 games in a season at least once.
    Posted by Babe-1


    How many pitchers win 20 games anymore?  In 2007 there was one 20-game in the American League (Josh Beckett).  Eighteen is the new twenty. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimdavis. Show jimdavis's posts

    Re: Jon Lester may very well be the best pitcher in the game right now...

    In Response to Re: Jon Lester may very well be the best pitcher in the game right now...:
    In Response to Re: Jon Lester may very well be the best pitcher in the game right now... : Yes...damn all those over rated 20 game winners!!
    Posted by Babe-1


    I didn't say  they were overrated.  I said 20 games was not the best measure of a pitcher.  You do realize that King Felix did not win 20 games last year, right?  Just checking.  He was 13-12.  He is one of the best pitchers in the game.  So, why didn't he win 20 games last year?  Enlighten us, please.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Jon Lester may very well be the best pitcher in the game right now...

    In Response to Jon Lester may very well be the best pitcher in the game right now...:
    It's hard to find many pitchers more dominant than him.  One could argue Halladay, King Felix or Josh Johnson but after that who would you truthfully put ahead of him?  I'm talking guys that have been doing this for several years now. I wouldn't put those other 3 ahead of him but more with him.  His career has continued to get better and better ever since his no-no a few years back.  It's scary to think that the best is still to come from him.
    Posted by SoxPatsCelts1988

    http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=sta&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2011&month=0&season1=2011&ind=0
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxfan791. Show redsoxfan791's posts

    Re: Jon Lester may very well be the best pitcher in the game right now...

    In Response to Re: Jon Lester may very well be the best pitcher in the game right now...:
    I thought Salty had great stuff, today.
    Posted by BaseballGM


    I second (or third) that!  Salty's performance today showed why he's such an outstanding catcher.  Lester could not have done any of the stuff without him behind the plate.

    Furthermore, I blame Varitek for the two wild pitches he allowed Daniel Bard to throw a few days ago. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxfan791. Show redsoxfan791's posts

    Re: Jon Lester may very well be the best pitcher in the game right now...

    In Response to Re: Jon Lester may very well be the best pitcher in the game right now...:
    You would think that the "best pitcher in the game" would have won 20 games in a season at least once.
    Posted by Babe-1


    Is 20 wins really that much better than 19?  Do wins really matter?  For the record, the best (or second best) pitcher of our generation, Greg Maddux, won 20 games only twice.  He won 19 games five times, and 18 games twice. 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Jon Lester may very well be the best pitcher in the game right now...

    In Response to Re: Jon Lester may very well be the best pitcher in the game right now...:
    In Response to Re: Jon Lester may very well be the best pitcher in the game right now... : Is 20 wins really that much better than 19?  Do wins really matter?  For the record, the best (or second best) pitcher of our generation, Greg Maddux, won 20 games only twice.  He won 19 games five times, and 18 games twice. 
    Posted by redsoxfan791


    Reminds me what I read in a sport magazine a long time ago:

    He could win 17 or 18 games, which is good for anybody.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Babe-1. Show Babe-1's posts

    Re: Jon Lester may very well be the best pitcher in the game right now...

    In Response to Re: Jon Lester may very well be the best pitcher in the game right now...:
    In Response to Re: Jon Lester may very well be the best pitcher in the game right now... : I didn't say  they were overrated.  I said 20 games was not the best measure of a pitcher.  You do realize that King Felix did not win 20 games last year, right?  Just checking.  He was 13-12.  He is one of the best pitchers in the game.  So, why didn't he win 20 games last year?  Enlighten us, please.

    Posted by jimdavis

    So are you telling me that the sawx have been as bad as the mariners during lester's career?

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimdavis. Show jimdavis's posts

    Re: Jon Lester may very well be the best pitcher in the game right now...

    In Response to Re: Jon Lester may very well be the best pitcher in the game right now...:
    In Response to Re: Jon Lester may very well be the best pitcher in the game right now... : So are you telling me that the sawx have been as bad as the mariners during lester's career?
    Posted by Babe-1


    No, I am telling you that a pitcher can still be one of the best without winning 20 games in a particular season.  791 already mentioned the number of times Maddox won 20 games.  King Felix might not have won 20 because he either matched up with the ace from the other team, did not get run support, or had a bad game or two.  The point is that he was the best pitcher in the league last year and only won 13 games.  This blows your 20 game bench mark out of the water.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Jon Lester may very well be the best pitcher in the game right now...

    He's up there, but in the game right now is a tricky question:

    Others that should be lumped, not necessarilly at the very top:

    Trevor Cahill        4-0   1.88  WHIP 1.12  33K  BAA: .214
    Tim Lincecum       2-3   2.90  WHIP 1.07  45K  BAA: .207
    Josh Johnson       3-0   0.88  WHIP  0.71  39K BAA : .130
    Lester                4-1   2.33  WHIP  1.10  46K BAA :  .217
    Roy Halladay        4-1  2.14  WHIP   0.99  47K BAA:  .225
    Haren                 4-2  1.76   WHIP  0.82  46K BAA:  .187
    Weaver               6-1  1.39  WHIP   0.83  55K BAA: .174
    CC

    Based on that list I would put Lester in the top 6. What I've seen this year and taking into accounts previous years, I would put Halladay and Johnson #1 and #2.  Johnson, in particula has been unhittable.

    Lastly, I am very thankful that I have both Lester and Johnson on my fantasy team.
     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from byebyeepstein. Show byebyeepstein's posts

    Re: Jon Lester may very well be the best pitcher in the game right now...

    how come pike can criticize and use personal innuendos and not get censored, but when others (me) criticize him, the post disappears. is pike sleeping with the
     mods?
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Babe-1. Show Babe-1's posts

    Re: Jon Lester may very well be the best pitcher in the game right now...

    In Response to Re: Jon Lester may very well be the best pitcher in the game right now...:
    In Response to Re: Jon Lester may very well be the best pitcher in the game right now... : No, I am telling you that a pitcher can still be one of the best without winning 20 games in a particular season.  791 already mentioned the number of times Maddox won 20 games.  King Felix might not have won 20 because he either matched up with the ace from the other team, did not get run support, or had a bad game or two.  The point is that he was the best pitcher in the league last year and only won 13 games.  This blows your 20 game bench mark out of the water.

    Posted by jimdavis

    felix didn't win 20 games because he plays for a horrible team that offers him no run support. Pretty simple.

    lester does not have that excuse.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from niz-58. Show niz-58's posts

    Re: Jon Lester may very well be the best pitcher in the game right now...

    In Response to Re: Jon Lester may very well be the best pitcher in the game right now...:
    how come pike can criticize and use personal innuendos and not get censored, but when others (me) criticize him, the post disappears. is pike sleeping with the  mods?
    Posted by byebyeepstein


    Because Pike can also have a rational discussion.
    You, on the other hand, are only here to annoy others.

    That's why others enjoy reporting you.

    It's an easy fix. Stop being an idiot.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Babe-1. Show Babe-1's posts

    Re: Jon Lester may very well be the best pitcher in the game right now...

    In Response to Re: Jon Lester may very well be the best pitcher in the game right now...:
    In Response to Re: Jon Lester may very well be the best pitcher in the game right now... : Because Pike can also have a rational discussion. You, on the other hand, are only here to annoy others. That's why others enjoy reporting you. It's an easy fix. Stop being an idiot.

    Posted by niz-58

    Stop, piker never posts about baseball. His only reason for being here is to talk about "trolls".

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimdavis. Show jimdavis's posts

    Re: Jon Lester may very well be the best pitcher in the game right now...

    In Response to Re: Jon Lester may very well be the best pitcher in the game right now...:
    In Response to Re: Jon Lester may very well be the best pitcher in the game right now... : felix didn't win 20 games because he plays for a horrible team that offers him no run support. Pretty simple. lester does not have that excuse.
    Posted by Babe-1


    Lester was on a team that was ravaged by injury in 2010.  He still went 19-9 with a 3.25 era and a whip of  1.20.  That is pretty special.  Plus, he had the bullpen blow saves that would have resulted in more wins.  That's the point.  Because you rely on others for the potential wins, wins and losses are a less effective measure of the talent of the pitcher.  If you want to twist that logic into a pretzel to proclaim the Sox as a terrible team, that is certainly your right.  It does not change the fact that the guy is a dominant pitcher.  If you think he is not, good for you.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimdavis. Show jimdavis's posts

    Re: Jon Lester may very well be the best pitcher in the game right now...

    In Response to Re: Jon Lester may very well be the best pitcher in the game right now...:
    In Response to Re: Jon Lester may very well be the best pitcher in the game right now... : Because Pike can also have a rational discussion. You, on the other hand, are only here to annoy others. That's why others enjoy reporting you. It's an easy fix. Stop being an idiot.
    Posted by niz-58


    Excellent advice...But it won't happen.  He knows no other way.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Babe-1. Show Babe-1's posts

    Re: Jon Lester may very well be the best pitcher in the game right now...

    In Response to Re: Jon Lester may very well be the best pitcher in the game right now...:
    In Response to Re: Jon Lester may very well be the best pitcher in the game right now... : Lester was on a team that was ravaged by injury in 2010.  He still went 19-9 with a 3.25 era and a whip of  1.20.  That is pretty special.  Plus, he had the bullpen blow saves that would have resulted in more wins.  That's the point.  Because you rely on others for the potential wins, wins and losses are a less effective measure of the talent of the pitcher.  If you want to twist that logic into a pretzel to proclaim the Sox as a terrible team, that is certainly your right.  It does not change the fact that the guy is a dominant pitcher.  If you think he is not, good for you.

    Posted by jimdavis

    I never said he wasn't dominant. Please try to follow along as difficult as it may be for you.

    And last I checked, almost all pitchers, even 20 game winners, have had bullpens blow some games for them.

     

     
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