Jose Iglesias starting?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Jose Iglesias starting?

    I hardly think he would be at .300 at the break and tail off to hit .190.

    You make no sense. I never said anything about .300 at the break. My point is I'd play Iggy if he hit .190 from start to finish, if he was on pace to save 80+ hits over a season over Aviles. I doubt Ben or Bobby would agree, and I never implied they woud.

    And how many games of iggy's have you actually watched that leads you to believe he would save an additional 100 hits. I don't care how good he is, that sounds like an awful lot to me. No, actually, it sounds like wishful thinking.

    How many games have you watched Aviles, Scutaro, or Lowrie play? I am basing my projection on the idea that even an average SS can make 30-45 more plays than Scutaro did last year. I believe scouting reports as they pertain to fielding. They rarely are wrong about great fielders. Sometimes players may get better (see Boggs), but rarely do the get worse (like Nomar).

    As far as "What if he hits .240?" and "What if he saves 120 hits".

    Well, what if he hits .175 and doesn't save 120 hits?

    That could happen, but if he hits .175 and saves 60 hits, it's still not a huge difference over Aviles at .280 and no saved hits. Also, if this happens, I will admit I was wrong, and argue for Aviles to be the starter.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Jose Iglesias starting?

    In Response to Re: Jose Iglesias starting?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jose Iglesias starting? : So I'm guessing since you didn't answer my question that you really haven't watched iggy much or at all, save for maybe a few youtube videos. Therefore kinda tough to really take your opinion that he will save 100+ hits with much weight.
    Posted by TBSHBT1969[/QUOTE]

    I didn't see this post until after I had posted my second post and went to bed.

    I am not 100% sure about Iggy's defense. I'm hoping to know more by watching ST. I am certain he is better than Scoot and Aviles. 80 plays better? maybe-maybe not. 100+ probably not, but possible. 50-60+? probably. 40+? I'm pretty certain. (Just 40 saved hits is like adding .080 to a BA making Iggy go from .190 to .270.)

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Jose Iglesias starting?

    Something to consider. Do we want him when he is at maximum range value for 6 years or after he has slowed down some? Do we want him when the team is optimized to win now or when the team maybe is rebuilding? I think he's at least a 50/50 chance to stick by the all star break. 

    A good question. They may seek to limit his MLB time to gain another year of team control in his prime years.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from TBSHBT1969. Show TBSHBT1969's posts

    Re: Jose Iglesias starting?

    In Response to Re: Jose Iglesias starting?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jose Iglesias starting? : I didn't see this post until after I had posted my second post and went to bed. I am not 100% sure about Iggy's defense. I'm hoping to know more by watching ST. I am certain he is better than Scoot and Aviles. 80 plays better? maybe-maybe not. 100+ probably not, but possible. 50-60+? probably. 40+? I'm pretty certain. (Just 40 saved hits is like adding .080 to a BA making Iggy go from .190 to .270.)
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    So, without actually WATCHING him play, you came up with the conclusion that he could save 100+ hits.

    Thanks, that's exactly what I needed to know.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Jose Iglesias starting?

    In Response to Re: Jose Iglesias starting?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jose Iglesias starting? : WHY ARE YOU SO NEGATIVE ???   THE PITCHERS ARE GOING TO LOVE THIS GUY.......  I DON'T CARE IF HE BUNTS OR HIT/RUN EVERY TIME UP !!!!   HAVE YOU BEEN AROUND BASEBALL LONG ?????
    Posted by Bill-806[/QUOTE]

    Been around long enough to know that most of the people saying that Iglesias should play, even if he doesn't hit will be calling for a change if he is hitting .160 in May.

    Saying you will take good defense and sacrifice offense is a lot different than actually taking good defense and sacrificing offense.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Jose Iglesias starting?

    In Response to Re: Jose Iglesias starting?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jose Iglesias starting? : Yeah but remember all the bombs Pedro Cerrano was launching in Spring Training until Eddie Harris started breaking off some Curve Balls...... Just saying.
    Posted by Thesemenarecowards[/QUOTE]

    Good point Cowards.  Well, looks like they will need more chicken afterall.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Jose Iglesias starting?

    In Response to Re: Jose Iglesias starting?:
    [QUOTE]I'm not sure why everyone assumes that Iglesias is a phenomenal defensive shortstop. Few, if any of us, have really seen him play on a regular basis. We're only going by minor league scouting reports, which tend to glorify everyone until they turn 27 and are still toiling in obscurity.
    Posted by davidap[/QUOTE]

    This is a very good point.  To boot, his minor league coaches to date, while praising his tremendous range and great hands, have noted that he still lacks some sound fundamentals and lapses in concentration.  Anyway you slice it, the kid is 21.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Jose Iglesias starting?

    Moon, the main issue that I have with your math on this is that you keep comparing his hits saved to Scoot, who isn't here any more.  Really, you should compare to Availes / Punto to determine who should be the starter.

    And Babe, read a scouting report.  Plus Plus Glove, Plus arm, Plus range.  Using historical data from MLB of top 5 defenders vs. bottom 5 defenders at SS, there's a difference of about 100 plays per 150 games.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from TBSHBT1969. Show TBSHBT1969's posts

    Re: Jose Iglesias starting?

    In Response to Re: Jose Iglesias starting?:
    [QUOTE]Moon, the main issue that I have with your math on this is that you keep comparing his hits saved to Scoot, who isn't here any more.  Really, you should compare to Availes / Punto to determine who should be the starter. And Babe, read a scouting report.  Plus Plus Glove, Plus arm, Plus range.  Using historical data from MLB of top 5 defenders vs. bottom 5 defenders at SS, there's a difference of about 100 plays per 150 games.
    Posted by JB-3[/QUOTE]

    But his fielding % as a pro is a difference of .004 from scutaro's last year. Hardly what I would think would make up 100+ hits.

    And I know that fielding % is not the end all be all of fielding stats, but you get my point.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from lowelll. Show lowelll's posts

    Re: Jose Iglesias starting?

    The thread has been about fielding range since Page 2. Everybody was onboard about that. Now you ignore that fact and are talking about fielding percentage. Please try to keep up. You need to read slower and attempt to comprehend what the topic is about. Getting to an extra 100 hit balls is about fielding range. Get it?
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from TBSHBT1969. Show TBSHBT1969's posts

    Re: Jose Iglesias starting?

    In Response to Re: Jose Iglesias starting?:
    [QUOTE]The thread has been about fielding range since Page 2. Everybody was onboard about that. Now you ignore that fact and are talking about fielding percentage. Please try to keep up. You need to read slower and attempt to comprehend what the topic is about. Getting to an extra 100 hit balls is about fielding range. Get it?
    Posted by lowelll[/QUOTE]

    Understood, pike.

    But some here are saying that a top 5 fielding SS makes 100+ plays over a bottom 5 fielding SS.

    Well, iggy hasn't proven to be a top 5 MINOR LEAGUE fielding SS, so maybe we can hold off on these silly projections.

    But kudos to you for actually attempting to talk remotely about baseball. Even though we all know it was more about trying to take a shot at me then to really talk baseball.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Jose Iglesias starting?

    In Response to Re: Jose Iglesias starting?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jose Iglesias starting? : So, without actually WATCHING him play, you came up with the conclusion that he could save 100+ hits. Thanks, that's exactly what I needed to know.
    Posted by TBSHBT1969[/QUOTE]

    I saw him play in Boston a little last year. 

    I've never seen Joey Votte play, so he must stink, since I can't trust the numbers or scouting reports at all, right?

    If scouts say the guy is a defensive whiz, I will trust their judgement more than yours.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from TBSHBT1969. Show TBSHBT1969's posts

    Re: Jose Iglesias starting?

    In Response to Re: Jose Iglesias starting?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jose Iglesias starting? : I saw him play in Boston a little last year.  I've never seen Joey Votte play, so he must stink, since I can't trust the numbers or scouting reports at all, right? If scouts say the guy is a defensive whiz, I will trust their judgement more than yours.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Actually, I didn't offer any judgement because I haven't seen him play.

    And how many guys have we seen through the years that the scouts rave about in the lower minors only to never hear their name again in the coming years?

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Jose Iglesias starting?

    In Response to Re: Jose Iglesias starting?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jose Iglesias starting? : Been around long enough to know that most of the people saying that Iglesias should play, even if he doesn't hit will be calling for a change if he is hitting .160 in May. Saying you will take good defense and sacrifice offense is a lot different than actually taking good defense and sacrificing offense.
    Posted by Thesemenarecowards[/QUOTE]

    If he's hitting .160, I will probably be saying go back to AAA, even if he is taking away a hit every 2 games on D, but .190, no. I am also aware that maybe his defense is just good or very good, and not exceptional, (I am certain he won't be just average) so if he is only taking away a hit every 4 or 5 games, then .190 is not good enough either.

    Prediction: 

    Fool Alert!

    If Iggy get the FT SS job, some posters here will judge him only by his Flg% and ignore his range and extra plays made. If he has 2 errors in the first 8 games, we'll be seeing Flg% comnparisons to Scoot. 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Jose Iglesias starting?

    Moon, the main issue that I have with your math on this is that you keep comparing his hits saved to Scoot, who isn't here any more.  Really, you should compare to Availes / Punto to determine who should be the starter.

    Good point, but most of the anti-Iggy guys also think Scutaro is better than Aviles.  My comment about saving 80 hits was not meant to be 80 over Scoot, but more like 80 over a slightly below average MLB SS...like maybe Aviles.

    And Babe, read a scouting report.  Plus Plus Glove, Plus arm, Plus range.  Using historical data from MLB of top 5 defenders vs. bottom 5 defenders at SS, there's a difference of about 100 plays per 150 games.

    Too many people ignore range, especially at the SS position. I'll take 35 errors from my SS, if he saves 50 hits over the average SS (and 100 over the worst: like Jeter).
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Jose Iglesias starting?

    But his fielding % as a pro is a difference of .004 from scutaro's last year. Hardly what I would think would make up 100+ hits.

    And I know that fielding % is not the end all be all of fielding stats, but you get my point.

    I didn't see this foolish comment before posting my "fool alert".

    Fielding %? For real? .004 based on a  tiny sample size wouldn't make up for 100 hits?

    Fool exposed!
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Jose Iglesias starting?

    Actually, I didn't offer any judgement because I haven't seen him play.

    And how many guys have we seen through the years that the scouts rave about in the lower minors only to never hear their name again in the coming years?

    That's about hitting and pitching: two areas hard to project from the minors to majors.

    Fielding in fielding anywhere you play and at any level.

    Name 3-4 players that came to the majors touted as great fielders, but stunk or were average (without an injury effecting it). 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Jose Iglesias starting?

    In Response to Re: Jose Iglesias starting?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jose Iglesias starting? : If he's hitting .160, I will probably be saying go back to AAA, even if he is taking away a hit every 2 games on D, but .190, no. I am also aware that maybe his defense is just good or very good, and not exceptional, (I am certain he won't be just average) so if he is only taking away a hit every 4 or 5 games, then .190 is not good enough either. Prediction:  Fool Alert! If Iggy get the FT SS job, some posters here will judge him only by his Flg% and ignore his range and extra plays made. If he has 2 errors in the first 8 games, we'll be seeing Flg% comnparisons to Scoot. 
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Well if he does get the job and is really struggling at the plate his margin for error (no pun intended) on defense becomes much slimmer.  If he is even making the occassional error it becomes harder and harder to justify playing a guy hitting below .200.

    I'm not against playing Iglesias and seeing if he can find himself at the plate IF he plays the kind of defense some claim he will play but I guarnantee many fans will not be patient if he isn't hitting at all, regardless of the glove.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from lowelll. Show lowelll's posts

    Re: Jose Iglesias starting?

    In Response to Re: Jose Iglesias starting?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jose Iglesias starting? : Understood, pike. But some here are saying that a top 5 fielding SS makes 100+ plays over a bottom 5 fielding SS. Well, iggy hasn't proven to be a top 5 MINOR LEAGUE fielding SS, so maybe we can hold off on these silly projections. But kudos to you for actually attempting to talk remotely about baseball. Even though we all know it was more about trying to take a shot at me then to really talk baseball.
    Posted by TBSHBT1969[/QUOTE]

    The statistics that need to be quantified at the major and minor league levels are fielding range. They have new cameras that use 3-D and GPS techology with sophisticated software to compare range. It is much like UZR quantification via cameras and software. Watching the games in person is another way to assess fielding range but is obviously less accurate. The glowing reports about iggy are from those who watched him play in practice or in game situations. I have only seen him play in two games on TV so I am trusting the feedback from those who have. It is normal for a Red Sox fan to get hyped about someone like Iggy or Ellsbury ( three yrs. back). You must have a few prospects in the Yankee farm system with perceived huge potential. Do you scrutinize them as much as you do with our prospects?
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from lowelll. Show lowelll's posts

    Re: Jose Iglesias starting?

    Moonslav's point was that a player with a .220 BA who takes away 50 hits that other shortstops could not is as vauable as a .300 hitter. He wasn't talking about a .190 hitter.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Jose Iglesias starting?

    In Response to Re: Jose Iglesias starting?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jose Iglesias starting? : The statistics that need to be quantified at the major and minor league levels are fielding range. They have new cameras that use 3-D and GPS techology with sophisticated software to compare range. It is much like UZR quantification via cameras and software. Watching the games in person is another way to assess fielding range but is obviously less accurate. The glowing reports about iggy are from those who watched him play in practice or in game situations. I have only seen him play in two games on TV so I am trusting the feedback from those who have. It is normal for a Red Sox fan to get hyped about someone like Iggy or Ellsbury ( three yrs. back). You must have a few prospects in the Yankee farm system with perceived huge potential. Do you scrutinize them as much as you do with our prospects?
    Posted by lowelll[/QUOTE]

    Good post.

    To me, it's not about him being a Sox prospect. I have always believed in the fundamental truth that a great ranged-strong armed SS is a huge asset to any team. I'm just tired of it always being the "other team". I'll take any great ranged SS. It doesn't have to be Iggy. (I loved the Nomar-Cabrera trade and said so at the time. I loved Gonzo and wanted him back- both times, and I thought Renteria was better than he ended up being for the one year--back injury?).

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from TBSHBT1969. Show TBSHBT1969's posts

    Re: Jose Iglesias starting?

    In Response to Re: Jose Iglesias starting?:
    [QUOTE]But his fielding % as a pro is a difference of .004 from scutaro's last year. Hardly what I would think would make up 100+ hits. And I know that fielding % is not the end all be all of fielding stats, but you get my point. I didn't see this foolish comment before posting my "fool alert". Fielding %? For real? .004 based on a  tiny sample size wouldn't make up for 100 hits? Fool exposed!
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    LOL...so his fielding % in 154 games in the minors is a small sample size but you can make a judgement on his fielding by watching all of 18.2 innings that he played in beantowne last year. Got it.

     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hammah29r2. Show Hammah29r2's posts

    Re: Jose Iglesias starting?

    well, yesterday bobby v picked up a fungo bat and started hitting to his shortstop prospects. to make a long story short, Iggy put on a show of his amazing athletic tallent and dazzled his new manager! try as he could, bobby could not get one by the kid even causing him to shout "Atta boy" to Iggy on a screaming line drive that he snagged that scoot would'nt have caught up to. it's the 3rd day of spring gang and we shall certainly see what the next 6 weeks produces. you know what they say right? first impressions etc etc.

    what a gorgeous new park they built eh?
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Jose Iglesias starting?

    In Response to Re: Jose Iglesias starting?:
    [QUOTE]The way I look at this is this: Punto, for whatever reason, looks great defensively with range, etc, and his chemistry with Pedroia. If that's the case, then just filter in Igelsias during the year in blowouts for defensive purposes, spot duty once, maybe twice a week and just see how he looks. Youkilis might need a day off, maybe Pedroia here and there, so you play Punto at 3B or 2B and see how Iglesias looks at the plate as the year goes. Anyway, it's not a situationt over-analyze here, but just see how it plays out.  Usually, these things settle over a season. I don't have much of an opinion on Aviles, because I don't know enough/haven't seen enough to comment.
    Posted by RustyGriswold[/QUOTE]

    There not going to carry Iglesias on the roster to only play him 1 or 2 times a week or in spot duty.  It is a a waste of a roster spot and a detriment to Iglesias, who needs to be facing live pitching everyday at AAA if he is not the SS for the big club.
     

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