1. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimedfred. Show jimedfred's posts

    Re: Jose Iglesias starting?

    posted at 2/23/2012 4:30 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Jose Iglesias starting?:
    In Response to Re: Jose Iglesias starting? : LOL...so his fielding % in 154 games in the minors is a small sample size but you can make a judgement on his fielding by watching all of 18.2 innings that he played in beantowne last year. Got it.
    Posted by TBSHBT1969
    So you STILL think fielding percentage is a relevant stat ?
    So one guy gets to 300 balls, makes the play on 280 of them, and botches it on the rest.Fldng % = 933.
    Other guy gets to 400 balls, makes play on 370 of them, botches rest. Fldng % 925.
    And YOU'D rather have the first guy ?  That tells us all WE need to kniow.
    Try watching a baseball game sometime, instead of just trollling. In the short time you've been here , you're the easy favourite for a-h rookie of the year.
     

  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Jose Iglesias starting?

    posted at 2/23/2012 8:33 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Jose Iglesias starting?:
    In Response to Re: Jose Iglesias starting? : LOL...so his fielding % in 154 games in the minors is a small sample size but you can make a judgement on his fielding by watching all of 18.2 innings that he played in beantowne last year. Got it.
    Posted by TBSHBT1969

    Sorry, I thought you were talking about his small sample size with Boston. I was mistaken.



    See how easy it is to recognize a mistake, admit it, and move on?

     

  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Jose Iglesias starting?

    posted at 2/23/2012 8:35 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Jose Iglesias starting?:
    In Response to Re: Jose Iglesias starting? : There not going to carry Iglesias on the roster to only play him 1 or 2 times a week or in spot duty.  It is a a waste of a roster spot and a detriment to Iglesias, who needs to be facing live pitching everyday at AAA if he is not the SS for the big club.
    Posted by Thesemenarecowards

    I agree. It's FT, near FT, or AAA.

     

  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Jose Iglesias starting?

    posted at 2/24/2012 12:04 AM EST

    In Response to Re: Jose Iglesias starting?:
    In Response to Re: Jose Iglesias starting? : But his fielding % as a pro is a difference of .004 from scutaro's last year. Hardly what I would think would make up 100+ hits. And I know that fielding % is not the end all be all of fielding stats, but you get my point.
    Posted by TBSHBT1969


    Others already covered it, but fielding percentage is very overrated (although it can be useful).  Fielding percentage is basically how often you execute the play that you should make, total plays made is able to incorporate range and release speed, as well as sure handedness (fielding percentage) and some luck since the ball has to be hit in the right area for a fielder to have a chance to make a play in the first place.

    While many players have rave reviews from the minors and then never amount to much, it's far more common on the offensive side of the game than defensively.  There's certainly still an adjustment on defense, but it isn't as great as at the plate, thanks in large part to the better quality of fields at the MLB level (fewer bad hops) to partially offset the harder hit balls, quicker runners, etc.
     

  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Jose Iglesias starting?

    posted at 2/24/2012 12:11 AM EST

    RF/9 and total plays is not a perfect stat... no stat is. Teams that have pitchers with more than average Ks and/or fly ball outs will maybe mean less chances for SSs, but when you see the same SSs near the top every year, and the same ones (like Jeter) near the bottom year after year, it's pretty safe to say that great ranged SSs, because of their extra range, can and do make 60-100 more plays than the worst ranged SSs. I really can not see how any reasonable fan can not understand this. 

    The deabte about just how exceptional Iggy is (or not) is at least up for play, but we'll see for ourselves soon enough. My money's on Iggy being a top 3-5 range SS in MLB right now. I had Scoot in the bottom 5 last year, so we could be looking at a huge turn-around if Iggy gets the nod. Over Aviles, the differential will be significant as well, but not as much as compared to Scoot.
     

  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: Jose Iglesias starting?

    posted at 2/24/2012 12:57 AM EST

    To me the best thing about iggy is his hands. Soft and extremely quick. The guy has the total package defensively. And I have always like his stroke and now he looks like he has added some strength.
     

  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxpride34. Show redsoxpride34's posts

    Re: Jose Iglesias starting?

    posted at 2/24/2012 1:39 AM EST

    jose iglesias should no doubt be starting for one major reason, defense. the sox dont need to hit .300 in the 9 spot. Even if he hits .220 but plays gold glove defense, he is worth it. and look at our alternatives, punto has virtually no shot at starting and aviles is much better suited for the bench due to his versatility. Think about it this way, if we start iglesias we will have a bench fo shoppach, punto (can play 2b and 3b with decent ss ability), aviles (plays infield except 1st and corner outfield), and whoever else makes the team. My point is that having punto and aviles on the bench gives us versatility. Not to mention defensively neither of them are very good. we need good defense at short without question. youk is no gold glover at 3rd and is not getting any younger, give iglesias a shot. 
     

  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from upperco1. Show upperco1's posts

    Re: Jose Iglesias starting?

    posted at 2/24/2012 2:43 AM EST

    A kid from Pittsfield Ma lasted 17 yrs. in the bigs with a lifetime BA of .228 and the O's pitchers loved it. Ok, now y'all can show your age and name him.
     

  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Jose Iglesias starting?

    posted at 2/24/2012 4:17 AM EST

    Iglesias has a long way to go to prove he's a Mark Belanger, one of the greatest defensive SS's in history. Also, his .228 BA is a litlle deceiving, since it was during an era of low BAs.
     

  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Jose Iglesias starting?

    posted at 2/24/2012 6:19 AM EST

    In Response to Re: Jose Iglesias starting?:
    Iglesias has a long way to go to prove he's a Mark Belanger, one of the greatest defensive SS's in history. Also, his .228 BA is a litlle deceiving, since it was during an era of low BAs.
    Posted by nhsteven
    Have you checked to see what other shortstops of the time were hitting? 

     

  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from TBSHBT1969. Show TBSHBT1969's posts

    Re: Jose Iglesias starting?

    posted at 2/24/2012 8:18 AM EST

    In Response to Re: Jose Iglesias starting?:
    RF/9 and total plays is not a perfect stat... no stat is. Teams that have pitchers with more than average Ks and/or fly ball outs will maybe mean less chances for SSs, but when you see the same SSs near the top every year, and the same ones (like Jeter) near the bottom year after year, it's pretty safe to say that great ranged SSs, because of their extra range, can and do make 60-100 more plays than the worst ranged SSs. I really can not see how any reasonable fan can not understand this.  The deabte about just how exceptional Iggy is (or not) is at least up for play, but we'll see for ourselves soon enough. My money's on Iggy being a top 3-5 range SS in MLB right now. I had Scoot in the bottom 5 last year, so we could be looking at a huge turn-around if Iggy gets the nod. Over Aviles, the differential will be significant as well, but not as much as compared to Scoot.
    Posted by moonslav59

    Based on all of the 18.2 innings of play that you watched last year.

     

  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Jose Iglesias starting?

    posted at 2/24/2012 9:10 AM EST

    In Response to Re: Jose Iglesias starting?:
    In Response to Re: Jose Iglesias starting? : Based on all of the 18.2 innings of play that you watched last year.
    Posted by TBSHBT1969

    No. I told you what I based it on. You just don't want to or can't retain information.

    The 18.2 innings i watched are just a tiny fraction of the information I am using to make my judgement.

    Did you here me say that scouting reports on defense are much more reliable than on hitting or pitching? You may agree to disagree, but don't restate that my reasoning for my opinion is based on a tiny sample size. You discredit yourself, not me.

    Scouting reports:

    Elite defensive skills highlighted by extremely fluid hands and soft glove. Excellent instincts and anticipation produces his well above-average range. Will get to balls that most, if not all, will not. Plus, accurate arm. Adept at throwing on the move and has outstanding body control. Future perennial Gold Glove shortstop. Grades as an "80" defensively. Can also play second and third base more than adequately. Major League ready in the field. 


    Iglesias's fielding has been described as 'Ozzie Smith-style slick', already meriting a perfect 80 on the scouting scale.

    His RF/G in AAA last year was 4.42. Scoot's was 3.76 in MLB. The differential is over a half play per game (.66) ... or about 80 (actually over 100 @ .66/G, but I adjusted down to 80) per full season (150 gms or so). Aviles has a career RF/G at SS of just under 4 (3.99), so by these numbers, one could reasonably project maybe 50-70 saved hits by Iggy over Aviles this year.

    I realize my 80 plays is just a projection. I could be off by 25-35 plays or so, but even if Iggy just makes 40 more plays than Aviles would have made this year over 150 games, it would just about even them up in my opinion.

    Aviles .280 (140/500)
    Iggy    .200 (100/500) add 40 hits and their about even. Add 60+ and...

    I've never pretended this is all a 100% guaranteed projection, but I'll give you 3:1 odds that if Iggy plays 140+ games for the Red Sox this year, his RF/9 will be at least .50 higher than Scutaro's '10-'11 Red Sox numbers (3.91).

    Deal?



     

  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Jose Iglesias starting?

    posted at 2/24/2012 9:48 AM EST

    In Response to Re: Jose Iglesias starting?:
    A kid from Pittsfield Ma lasted 17 yrs. in the bigs with a lifetime BA of .228 and the O's pitchers loved it. Ok, now y'all can show your age and name him.
    Posted by upperco1


    Man, it would be sad if a fan of baseball, regardless of age, did not know The Blade.  He and Brooks Robinson were the best left side of all time.  That much-ballyhooed pitcing staff would have been much less ballyhooed without those guys.
     

  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Jose Iglesias starting?

    posted at 2/24/2012 9:54 AM EST

    In Response to Re: Jose Iglesias starting?:
    In Response to Re: Jose Iglesias starting? : Have you checked to see what other shortstops of the time were hitting? 
    Posted by expitch


    This is not easy to find, but the League BA during his career (normalized for ballparks) was .254. See baseball reference.com.
     

  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from TBSHBT1969. Show TBSHBT1969's posts

    Re: Jose Iglesias starting?

    posted at 2/24/2012 9:56 AM EST

    In Response to Re: Jose Iglesias starting?:
    A kid from Pittsfield Ma lasted 17 yrs. in the bigs with a lifetime BA of .228 and the O's pitchers loved it. Ok, now y'all can show your age and name him.
    Posted by upperco1

    The days of the .230 hitting SS are long gone.

     

  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Jose Iglesias starting?

    posted at 2/24/2012 9:58 AM EST

    In Response to Re: Jose Iglesias starting?:
    In Response to Re: Jose Iglesias starting? : The days of the .230 hitting SS are long gone.
    Posted by TBSHBT1969


    And, let us be clear, unless he has made huge strides over he winter, Iggy ain't comin' near .230.
     

  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hammah29r2. Show Hammah29r2's posts

    Re: Jose Iglesias starting?

    posted at 2/24/2012 10:14 AM EST

    In Response to Re: Jose Iglesias starting?:
    In Response to Re: Jose Iglesias starting? : And, let us be clear, unless he has made huge strides over he winter, Iggy ain't comin' near .230.
    Posted by SpacemanEephus


    Yo Spacebro! a buddy of mine that I served with is down at spring training and he told me that Iggie is putting on a clinic not only in the field but at bp as well. he said the starting ss job is his to win if he keeps hitting line shots like he's been doing. he said watching him in the field is like an event. the other guys are over a second or two slower than iggie. time will tell. one guy that is loving this kid is the little dirtdog pedroia. pedie was heard saying how much fun it is practicing double plays with our 22 year old lightning bolt.
     

  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from TBSHBT1969. Show TBSHBT1969's posts

    Re: Jose Iglesias starting?

    posted at 2/24/2012 10:20 AM EST

    In Response to Re: Jose Iglesias starting?:
    In Response to Re: Jose Iglesias starting? : Yo Spacebro! a buddy of mine that I served with is down at spring training and he told me that Iggie is putting on a clinic not only in the field but at bp as well. he said the starting ss job is his to win if he keeps hitting line shots like he's been doing. he said watching him in the field is like an event. the other guys are over a second or two slower than iggie. time will tell. one guy that is loving this kid is the little dirtdog pedroia. pedie was heard saying how much fun it is practicing double plays with our 22 year old lightning bolt.
    Posted by Hammah29r2

    He forgot to mention the part that he was hitting off a tee!

     

  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Jose Iglesias starting?

    posted at 2/24/2012 10:23 AM EST

    In Response to Re: Jose Iglesias starting?:
    In Response to Re: Jose Iglesias starting? : Yo Spacebro! a buddy of mine that I served with is down at spring training and he told me that Iggie is putting on a clinic not only in the field but at bp as well. he said the starting ss job is his to win if he keeps hitting line shots like he's been doing. he said watching him in the field is like an event. the other guys are over a second or two slower than iggie. time will tell. one guy that is loving this kid is the little dirtdog pedroia. pedie was heard saying how much fun it is practicing double plays with our 22 year old lightning bolt.
    Posted by Hammah29r2


    Yeah, I have been loving what I have been hearing Hammah.  But, lasers in spring BP do not a hitter make.  We shall see.  Don't get me wrong.  I want to be cautious with the kid for his own sake.  But, if Iggy is knocking the ball around all spring, by all means, lets give him the job.  I'm gonna be down there in a few weeks with my papa, so I'll get to see with my own very sophisticated scout's eye Tongue Out.   But, no doubt, early reports are very exciting.
     

  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Jose Iglesias starting?

    posted at 2/24/2012 10:32 AM EST

    In Response to Re: Jose Iglesias starting?:
    In Response to Re: Jose Iglesias starting? : And, let us be clear, unless he has made huge strides over he winter, Iggy ain't comin' near .230.
    Posted by SpacemanEephus


    Is there a reason to think he "ain't comin' near .230"?  He's never hit below .235 during any minor league stint and he's only hit below .269 once.  Of course there's an adjustment going from AAA to MLB, but some of that will be offset by his development, and more will likely be offset by the fact that he should be healthy (wrist or finger injury last year) certainly enough to be above .200 and quite possibly, "near" or above .230.
     

  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Jose Iglesias starting?

    posted at 2/24/2012 10:49 AM EST

    For what it's worth, Bill James projects a .241/.277/.277 line in 50 games (148 PA's) for Iggy in 2012 at the MLB level.

    ZiPS is more generous over a larger sample, projecting .251/.289/.311 and even 1 HR(!) in 126 games (467 PA's).

     

  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Jose Iglesias starting?

    posted at 2/24/2012 10:54 AM EST

    In Response to Re: Jose Iglesias starting?:
    In Response to Re: Jose Iglesias starting? : Is there a reason to think he "ain't comin' near .230"?  He's never hit below .235 during any minor league stint and he's only hit below .269 once.  Of course there's an adjustment going from AAA to MLB, but some of that will be offset by his development, and more will likely be offset by the fact that he should be healthy (wrist or finger injury last year) certainly enough to be above .200 and quite possibly, "near" or above .230.
    Posted by JB-3


    You have a point here.  I actually think the kid has good potential as a hitter.  I guess, my gut feeling is to err on the side of caution with him.  But, hey, I can come around to the idea of giving him a go.  I mean, it surely is exciting.  Besides, if he is crushed by major league pitching and loses all confidence and never ascends to his rightful place among gold glovers, theres always Bogarts Tongue Out
     

  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Jose Iglesias starting?

    posted at 2/24/2012 11:10 AM EST

    In Response to Re: Jose Iglesias starting?:
    In Response to Re: Jose Iglesias starting? : You have a point here.  I actually think the kid has good potential as a hitter.  I guess, my gut feeling is to err on the side of caution with him.  But, hey, I can come around to the idea of giving him a go.  I mean, it surely is exciting.  Besides, if he is crushed by major league pitching and loses all confidence and never ascends to his rightful place among gold glovers, theres always Bogarts 
    Posted by SpacemanEephus


    I understand the caution to not rush him to MLB, and personally I wouldn't be surprised to see him start the year in AAA to get an extra year of team control.  He'd probably have to be down for about 2 months because of the service time he gained last year.  That just happens to be a perfect amount of time to see how he's progressed from 2011 into 2012.
     

  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from upperco1. Show upperco1's posts

    Re: Jose Iglesias starting?

    posted at 2/24/2012 12:54 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Jose Iglesias starting?:
    In Response to Re: Jose Iglesias starting? : Man, it would be sad if a fan of baseball, regardless of age, did not know The Blade.  He and Brooks Robinson were the best left side of all time.  That much-ballyhooed pitcing staff would have been much less ballyhooed without those guys.
    Posted by SpacemanEephus


    My point, exactly
     

  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Jose Iglesias starting?

    posted at 2/24/2012 12:56 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Jose Iglesias starting?:
    In Response to Re: Jose Iglesias starting? : I understand the caution to not rush him to MLB, and personally I wouldn't be surprised to see him start the year in AAA to get an extra year of team control.  He'd probably have to be down for about 2 months because of the service time he gained last year.  That just happens to be a perfect amount of time to see how he's progressed from 2011 into 2012.
    Posted by JB-3

    My guess is that ben will choose this option.

    My hope is that iggy plays from day 1 to the WS.