Josh and Jon are OUTSTANDING!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Josh and Jon are OUTSTANDING!

    Barring additional games like the rain-delay and too few runs scored today there is no reason why Mr. 1.99 ERA cannot win 20 this year.

    Lester is as dominant as ever and should be knocking on the 20 win door too.

    Clay has been better, and after last season, we should be able to get a good year from him.

    This leaves Lackey and Dice-K.  To be sure one will be abysmal but the other must step-up.  My money is on Dice-K to be the better of the two.

    This pitching staff overall is very good - with perhaps the best 1-2-3 in the AL (the Phillies are a lock in the NL).

    I know this is a basic post and its been covered,  but I am highly enthusiastic on Becket this season; I knew he would not let us down as he's just to competitive and talented.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Josh and John are OUTSTANDING!

    Jon Lester, John Lackey.... 1 letter makes a world of difference.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Josh and John are OUTSTANDING!

    Wow - my bad!
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from RSF4Life234. Show RSF4Life234's posts

    Re: Josh and John are OUTSTANDING!

    Ive said it a billion times but yes lester is an outstanding pitcher, but in order for this team to do what its supposed to it needs Beckett to be the ace, and so far he has been. Beckett is pitching like shilling did when he lost some of his velocity, like a pitcher not just a thrower and im loving every second of it. One of the best 1 2 punches in all of baseball!

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Josh and John are OUTSTANDING!

    Beckett didn't look too shabby tonight.  I think there are three good starters and maybe four with Matsuzaka.  Lackey is a worry, but he has had good games too.  Bullpen looks very much improved from two weeks ago.  Bard and Pap, then Hill, Albers, and Aceves, and tonight Okajima battled and succeeded--two shutout innings.  Wake is for special occasions. 
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Josh and Jon are OUTSTANDING!

    We all know about Beckett - one year he can be 20-9 with a 3.00 era and the next 14-10 with a 5.00 era..... it just seemed he was sliding downhill the past season (edit).  I never gave up on him though - he has been too awesome some years -and yes everyone knows he is as important to the staff as any pitcher since Schilling.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from RSF4Life234. Show RSF4Life234's posts

    Re: Josh and Jon are OUTSTANDING!

    i dont know about the past 2 years, 09 he actually had a pretty good season and one stretch where he was probably the best pitcher in baseball, and last year *knock on wood was a lost year due to injury, Sh*t happens.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Josh and John are OUTSTANDING!

    Look at it this way. In 12 starts, Lackey and DiceK have had these starts.

    6 IP, 1 ER
    8 IP, 0 ER
    6 IP, 2 ER
    7 IP, 0 ER
    8 IP, 0 ER
    5 IP, 3 ER
    4 IP, 1 ER
    6 IP, 4 ER

    So in 8 of 12 starts, they have combined to have a 1.99 ERA. Taking salaries out of the equation, if we're going to call Lester, Beckett and Buchholz as the top three starters, how many teams can say that their 4 and 5 starters have that low of an ERA in 3/4 of their starts.

    Lackey has been horrible in three starts, but DiceK has been horrible just once. 




     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Josh and Jon are OUTSTANDING!

    Josh was not "sliding down hill" the past two seasons. Get a clue.
    He was very good in 2009, on a pace for another 20-win season, until he lost Tek. In fact, it was the very game Tek went down and Farrell was called away when Beckett "lost it". 

    Last year he was hurt. When he returned, Tito never paired him with Tek.
    Hence he was compromised by a catcher who is no longer a FT catcher in the M.L.'s.

    I believe it was Softlaw who kept bashing Beckett last year. Both of you are completely out to lunch on the pitcher/catcher equation.

    You guys couldn't find UR way to the ballpark in a taxi!
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Josh and Jon are OUTSTANDING!

    Oops another mistake I just checked up on 2009 which Josh was very good. I guess your such a tool you couldn't absorb I am a Josh fan and chose to bring your Tek/CERA garbage into the thread.... and also worked the language of your post to suggest I am anti-Beckett.

     
    "Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here." As Good as it Gets
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Josh and Jon are OUTSTANDING!

    Oh and brainiac why don't you break down D-Lowe's last season here and let us know why Tek messed him up so bad... I mean it had to be Tek that caused the off-year right?

    As Tek will certainly retire after this season are you also thinking we should trade Beckett as he obviously will be entirely useless without his Tek crutch. That is absurd isn't it - now you know how you sound.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from RSF4Life234. Show RSF4Life234's posts

    Re: Josh and Jon are OUTSTANDING!

    i wish tek could play for ever, i do agree with harness that the sox have been in more trouble without tek then with tek. I just hope hes working with salty all the time, if i was francona id say to salty like i would a new employee, shadow that man and do everything he does.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Josh and Jon are OUTSTANDING!

    RSF4 that is a fair statement - but Tek will not be here next year, and according to the know-it-all our pitchers have to have their hand held in order to perform. Should Tek hit the DL it is as if some would say throw in the towel, its over.

    Posada's shortcomings were heavy debate not so long ago yet the Yankees won a number of WSC with him catching.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from RSF4Life234. Show RSF4Life234's posts

    Re: Josh and Jon are OUTSTANDING!

    Well burrito i think it depends on the pitchers, some can throw to anybody depending on there stuff, or whether a pitcher and catcher connect similiar to how bucholz and vmart clicked. I believe that tek is big part of the club house, and could one day be a fantastic pitching coach (not many catchers become this although young did)or even a mangager one day. To be honest i want to enjoy this season and not even think about next year, but like i said i have a feeling that if tek really took salty under his arm we would see a huge improvement and to be honest i have, when oki was pitching to him it seemed like he was making the target a little bigger. I am still under the impression that salty with some work could turn into a very servicable big league catcher, i mean javier lopez was considered one of the best at one time and look when he played with the sox how that turned out. Despite what some people think on this board a good catcher is one of the most important positions in baseball. In regards to posada, i dont know how i ever felt about him, i always thought he was a little shakey with the glove but had a good clutch bat, but the man caught for the most part very good pitchers, i also dont know how many times he actually called the game or got shook off, compared to how tek is almost never ever shook off.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Josh and Jon are OUTSTANDING!

    Burrito: I never said or suggested you are anti-Beckett. I said softy was last year.
    You have a real problem with your bias against me - to the point of mis-representing what I say or what you think I mean.

    I said you shouldn't have included 2009 - which you admitted to.
    I said Josh was hurt in 2010, which he was.
    I said Tek didn't catch him when he returned, which is true. I said he was compromised (by VMART), when Beckett did return last year, which he was. So was everybody when there was a decent frame of reference.

    This "CERA garbage" may have cost the team any legit chance in the 2009 playoffs.
    This "CERA garbage" may have cost the team a much better run last year, despite the injuries.
    This "CERA garbage" is why VMART isn't catching full-time at age 32.

    You call something garbage because you can't understand it or won't accept it.
    Your bias against me just made you look the fool you are on Moon's Realistic thread. You won't you own up to your statement:

    "WE all know a poor catcher will hurt a staff".

    If a catcher's skills with a pitching staff are limited to the physical ones, your statement recognizes a catcher's relevance, which is what this "CERA garbage" is all about.

    Look how just about everybody communicates me on this board, beyond Softy, whom few get along with, and Pike, who's finally been banned. Then look at yourself and your posts toward me, to which I counter with the same tone. What does that say about you?

    How do I respond to you when you decide to be civil?
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Josh and Jon are OUTSTANDING!

    You made valid points with CERA - to which a number of people agreed, and you swayed some additional posters to your reasoning.  No problem. However you went to the mat with anyone who didn't full agree.

    All I did with you today is take something you said and gave it more definition, the media does this each day with taking things out of context or twisting ones statement into an entirely different meaning.

    It was satire that I used  - apologies if you did not get that.  Apologies to anyone for anyone who literally believed you think Beckett cannot pitch without Tek. 
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Josh and Jon are OUTSTANDING!

    No, you didn't give what I said "more definition". There's a difference between elaborating on a statement  - and totally mis-representing it.

    Moonslav59, do you agree with Harness that the RS should trade Beckett during the off-season if Tek retires?

    Where the hell did you get the idea he should be traded?

    According to harness, Beckett will be utterly useless in 2012 without Tek catching him.

    More definition? That's an out-in-out lie.


    The reason I had to "go to the mat" last year was for the very same thing: I was mis-represented. My whole point of the CERA subject matter was to prove a catcher's relevance. It opened a lot of eyes, but at the same time, it created a false image.

    I used data to illustrate my point. Any data is flawed, which is why I never said the disparity between results with both/all catchers was exacting. The level of disparity will always be questioned. I happen to think it's larger than many here do, but that's because of the three-month long research I did, only a fragment of which was ever being shown on that long thread.

    The level of the variance is what many questioned, which is why it was debated for so long. In addition, many posters didn't want to get into it due to the length of the thread. So, when I saw posts or stats about a pitcher excluding the pitcher-catcher equation, I reacted to it. These posts might not have existed had posters taken the time to read the thread. My intention was to purposely isolate the discussion to one thread, but the drawback was it's length and thus limited involvement overall.

    Then posters like yourself and many others saw it as an excuse to bash VMART, despite my saying over and over that he was not deployed properly. I never have nor will I lose sight of his accomplishments at the plate.
    But repetition was necessary,and my image as a VMART-basher was born.

    Another mis-representation is with Tek. I recognize his assets. And I backed them on many an occasion as far back as 2008/9 when he wasn't hitting and the board wanted his head on a block. What conclusions do you think posters will draw when they see my trying to show his relevance over and over?

    Do you have any concept how hard it is to justify the value of a player who hits so poorly? It involves a great deal of repetition when I see he's only seen through the limited scope of his BA. I could say he works counts well and produces at key intervals, but this is hard to quantify.

    I don't appreciate the slurs because I back a player too often mis-understood. Let's get it straight right now: I back his talent level as I see it. And I back it up with pertinent data. Beyond that, he's a RedSox player. Just like any other.

    Your claim of "satire" was very poorly stated. Satire involves humor more often than not.  There was nothing about those posts that was at all funny. I don't give a damn what the press does. If the press did to me what you did, they'd be far more libel. And you'd better believe I'd hold them responsible.

    I do appreciate the apology. And  I do admire UR humor at times. But despite UR claim to the contrary, I don't think what you stated was meant in that fashion.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Josh and Jon are OUTSTANDING!

    UGH.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Josh and Jon are OUTSTANDING!

    That about sums you up.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Josh and Jon are OUTSTANDING!

    The use of humor, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity - satire.

    Sure seems to fit what I was doing to you ...... 
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from jamesey271975. Show jamesey271975's posts

    Re: Josh and John are OUTSTANDING!

    In Response to Re: Josh and John are OUTSTANDING!:
    Look at it this way. In 12 starts, Lackey and DiceK have had these starts. 6 IP, 1 ER 8 IP, 0 ER 6 IP, 2 ER 7 IP, 0 ER 8 IP, 0 ER 5 IP, 3 ER 4 IP, 1 ER 6 IP, 4 ER So in 8 of 12 starts, they have combined to have a 1.99 ERA. Taking salaries out of the equation, if we're going to call Lester, Beckett and Buchholz as the top three starters, how many teams can say that their 4 and 5 starters have that low of an ERA in 3/4 of their starts. Lackey has been horrible in three starts, but DiceK has been horrible just once. 
    Posted by royf19

    Wow wow wow where are you getting these numbers? Are you just ignoring their worst starts highlighted below? If you are these "selected stats" are the most ridiculous thing i ever seen. It like saying in Crawford has 28 hits in 28 at bats (if you ignore the at bats he didnt have a hit in). 

    John Lackey is an appaling pitcher, he doesnt belong in the majors with the number he has this year. Dice K is a head case but at least can be 50/50 at times. 

    Lackey this yr Dice K 
    IP ERs IP   ERs
    4 8 6 4
    6 2 1 2
    8 0 4 1
    6 1 8 0
    5 6 7 0
    3.2 9 2 7
    -------- 5 3
    32 26 ---------
    33    17

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from law2009a. Show law2009a's posts

    Re: Josh and Jon are OUTSTANDING!

    m
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from The-Babe-1. Show The-Babe-1's posts

    Re: Josh and John are OUTSTANDING!

    In Response to Re: Josh and John are OUTSTANDING!:
    In Response to Re: Josh and John are OUTSTANDING! : Wow wow wow where are you getting these numbers? Are you just ignoring their worst starts highlighted below? If you are these "selected stats" are the most ridiculous thing i ever seen. It like saying in Crawford has 28 hits in 28 at bats (if you ignore the at bats he didnt have a hit in).  John Lackey is an appaling pitcher, he doesnt belong in the majors with the number he has this year. Dice K is a head case but at least can be 50/50 at times.  Lackey this yr Dice K  IP ERs IP   ERs 4 8 6 4 6 2 1 2 8 0 4 1 6 1 8 0 5 6 7 0 3.2 9 2 7 -------- 5 3 32 26 --------- 33    17

    Posted by jamesey271975

    I agree. It's like saying if you take out the games where the other team has scored more than the red flops the red flops would be undefeated right now.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from The-Babe-1. Show The-Babe-1's posts

    Re: Josh and Jon are OUTSTANDING!

    And I certainly wish harnass would start another caddy thread and keep all that CERA BS there.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Josh and Jon are OUTSTANDING!

    The-Babe-1,

    I know it's hard for a Yankee fan, but try not to be a jerk.  Since when do you consider it appropriate to call the Red Sox what you call them in your next to last comment--on a Boston Red Sox board. 

    Since John Henry took over the Red Sox franchise, the Sox have been far more successful than the Yankees. 
     
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