Justification

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Justification

    As bad as fans wanted to get rid of Beckett and Crawford, and Punto, they were willing to look the other way when Gonzalez left too. Now most of the folks are are now making excuses for Gozalez being traded. Some of you are defending Cherington who through Agon under the bus for the 3 undesirables, and are ok with it. You make me want to barf! You did the same thing when Theo didn't fin a way to keep Beltre and Vmart. You said, there was no way we could have gotten Crawford. Talk about fair-weather fans. A lot of you have short memories as well. Cherington and company are the reason this team is in shambles, but you trust that they can rebuild it? Seriously?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: Justification

    So if we had kept Beltre would we ever have traded for AGon? Make your mind up about who to say was the wrong player to let go. 
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Justification

    In Response to Justification:
    [QUOTE]As bad as fans wanted to get rid of Beckett and Crawford, and Punto, they were willing to look the other way when Gonzalez left too. Now most of the folks are are now making excuses for Gozalez being traded. Some of you are defending Cherington who through Agon under the bus for the 3 undesirables, and are ok with it. You make me want to barf! You did the same thing when Theo didn't fin a way to keep Beltre and Vmart. You said, there was no way we could have gotten Crawford. Talk about fair-weather fans. A lot of you have short memories as well. Cherington and company are the reason this team is in shambles, but you trust that they can rebuild it? Seriously?
    Posted by Alibiike[/QUOTE]

    that doesn't makes sense

    the REASON why Theo didn't keep Beltre and VMart was BECAUSE he PREFERED Gonzalez and to a lesser extent Crawford

    and remember all the money saved in this deal can be reallocated in a more efficient and effective way whilst cleaning out some the bad blood

    and even if AG was great here there is no way the D's take CC and JB w/o getting something in return........

    and finally, if you thought that somehow this team was heading in the right direction as is, then I guess you weren't paying close enough attention.......
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from gr82bme. Show gr82bme's posts

    Re: Justification

    "but you trust that they can rebuild it?"

    We don't have much of a choice, do we?  I didn't want A-gone traded, but if that was the price of dumping Crawford's contract alone, I'd have done it.  We also got rid of Beckett's albatross of a contract.  I don't know the exact figures, but absent those dollars, plus the money coming in from Dice-K's and Papi's contracts, there's a ton of money to be spent.  We they do it wisely?  Don't know, but this trade was a prudent move. 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from donrd4. Show donrd4's posts

    Re: Justification

    In Response to Justification:
    [QUOTE]As bad as fans wanted to get rid of Beckett and Crawford, and Punto, they were willing to look the other way when Gonzalez left too. Now most of the folks are are now making excuses for Gozalez being traded. Some of you are defending Cherington who through Agon under the bus for the 3 undesirables, and are ok with it. You make me want to barf! You did the same thing when Theo didn't fin a way to keep Beltre and Vmart. You said, there was no way we could have gotten Crawford. Talk about fair-weather fans. A lot of you have short memories as well. Cherington and company are the reason this team is in shambles, but you trust that they can rebuild it? Seriously?
    Posted by Alibiike[/QUOTE]

    This was OWNERSHIPS...trade ,not Cheringtons....263 Mil worth of players is all about OWNERSHIP wanting to dump big contracts, not Cherington saying i got a good trade.When trades are made everyone thinks right away GM ,smart or dumb move. This huge sale .. yes sale  was ALL ownership.......
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Justification

    In Response to Re: Justification:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Justification : This was OWNERSHIPS...trade ,not Cheringtons....263 Mil worth of players is all about OWNERSHIP wanting to dump big contracts, not Cherington saying i got a good trade.When trades are made everyone thinks right away GM ,smart or dumb move. This huge sale .. yes sale  was ALL ownership.......
    Posted by donrd4[/QUOTE]

    Absolutely. How can there be any doubt about this???
     
    Just as BC doesn't have the authority to spend $263MM without the blessing of the FO, he doesn't have the authority to jettison the highest plaid players on the team without their blessing either. 

    I'd like to have been 'a fly on the wall' during the discussions involving this trade!  :-)
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Justification

    In Response to Justification:
    [QUOTE]As bad as fans wanted to get rid of Beckett and Crawford, and Punto, they were willing to look the other way when Gonzalez left too. Now most of the folks are are now making excuses for Gozalez being traded. Some of you are defending Cherington who through Agon under the bus for the 3 undesirables, and are ok with it. You make me want to barf! You did the same thing when Theo didn't fin a way to keep Beltre and Vmart. You said, there was no way we could have gotten Crawford. Talk about fair-weather fans. A lot of you have short memories as well. Cherington and company are the reason this team is in shambles, but you trust that they can rebuild it? Seriously?
    Posted by Alibiike[/QUOTE]

    They built it into a championship team first, then lost their way. I think since they did it before they understand and have the knowlege to do it again...weak argument on your part IMO...
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Justification

    Man for man the RS got screwed.Not including money or any part of the contracts the RS got screwed.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Justification

    In Response to Re: Justification:
    [QUOTE]Man for man the RS got screwed.Not including money or any part of the contracts the RS got screwed.
    Posted by JimfromFlorida[/QUOTE]

    How? You had 2 guys that were over paid and really didnt want to or didnt fit in Boston (CC and Gonzo). You could tell by certain comments. And Becketts welcome was just worn out here.
    People were talking that we would have to eat at least 60+mm to get out from under the CC and Beckett contracts. Gonzo, although a solid defensive and offensive player, didnt seem to like it here and I think that contract would not look good at all in another 2-3 years. Personally, I thought it was too much to begin with, but thats JMO.
    We got out from under 260+mm for less than 12mm and got back 2 of their top pitcting prospects, a couple more kids that could turn out as nice additions, and Loney for the rest of the year until he hits FA. Also, we got our financial flexability back to bring in guys that are a better fit, and combined can make up the production on the field that just went west.
    The way I see it, the Sox got MORE than what they expected and LA paid more and gave up more than they should have.
    Winner = SOX
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from FenwayChuck. Show FenwayChuck's posts

    Re: Justification

    In Response to Justification:
    [QUOTE]As bad as fans wanted to get rid of Beckett and Crawford, and Punto, they were willing to look the other way when Gonzalez left too. Now most of the folks are are now making excuses for Gozalez being traded. Some of you are defending Cherington who through Agon under the bus for the 3 undesirables, and are ok with it. You make me want to barf! You did the same thing when Theo didn't fin a way to keep Beltre and Vmart. You said, there was no way we could have gotten Crawford. Talk about fair-weather fans. A lot of you have short memories as well. Cherington and company are the reason this team is in shambles, but you trust that they can rebuild it? Seriously?
    Posted by Alibiike[/QUOTE]

    1st it is THREW Agon under the bus.... or he was thrown THROUGH a window.... LOL

    I don't believe Justification needs to be made about why AGon was sent in the deal....  I think it was a business deal, and they needed to make it work to better the entire company.  Cherington may be getting a job at Bain capitol soon.

    Anyway.... things to consider..
    Agon trailed off the last half of last year, and was less than Stellar the first half of this year....
    Agon's cell phone was used to complain to the management ( though it is said he did not do that)
    Agon was part of the complaint committee when they had an "airing out" of complaints a month or so ago.

    I am not saying that Agon was the cause of any of these... but he was at least complicit in many things that were not good from a management's point of view.   He is a good player, a good assett and he was liquidated because the owners needed to go a different direction.... again NO JUSTIFICATION IS NEEDED.... He does not have a right to be on the sox.... and NOW he is not there.
     
  11. This post has been removed.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Justification

    Yes, I think they can get back to doing the things that built championship teams.

    I saw Bill Belichick lose his way, and start drafting "skill" players rather than "football" players. Then, after a few season of that, and seeing the lack of talent added to the team, they've recently gotten back to going after "football" players.

    The Sox WERE doing a very good job of going after guys that fit their system (aside from SS), and built a good "team". Then, somewhere along the way (texeira) they got caught up with needing to spend a ton of money on highly visible superstars and forcing them to fit, rather than just getting guys who fit.

    Now, if they go out and throw a ton of Money at Greinke and/or Hamilton, I'll know the problems still exist.

    But, if they resign Ross, and go find a couple of high OBP guys, it will be a sign, to me, that they realize the problem, and are getting back to fixing it.

    I can see people either giving them the benefit of the doubt because of championships, or not because of the last 3 years. We'll all find out within a year or so.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Justification

    " it was a salary dump by ownership.."

    I hate this kind of uninformed conspiracy theory BS. The Dodgers had three pitching prospects they wanted to protect, the Sox got two of the three. If one of those ptichers turns into the next Cliff Lee you and the "salary dump" crowd are going to look really stupid a few years from now. Beckett had a no-trade equivalent and Crawford had a no-trade to the Dodgers. 

    This trade took finessing on every level of both organizations and Crawford was considered an untradeable contract across baseball, he can't even play for a year and may never be himself again. 

    You won't know if it's a salary dump for a couple more years, it depends on what they do with the money and how they invest it. 

    At any rate not only is it being hailed as a smart trade by many who thought you could never move Crawford, but many fans wanted it. It's not like they blew up a great team, this team was going nowhere. The message to make this move came straight from fans who were disillusioned with the current team. 

    "Cherington and company are the reason this team is in shambles, but you trust that they can rebuild it? "

    Umm well Cherington wasn't in charge at that point, I think you realize that, but no, I don't trust they can rebuild it, how could I? Doesn't mean it wasn't a brilliant trade - it was. 3 bad contracts in one trade is almost unheard of. Most analysts thought it would be a good trade even if the Sox at a big chunk of the money - they end up eating only 5 percent. 

    Clean slate time, I'm rejuvinated as a fan, cautious about what they will do next but definitely on board because they got the message and did something smart. 

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Justification

    In Response to Re: Justification:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Justification : How? You had 2 guys that were over paid and really didnt want to or didnt fit in Boston (CC and Gonzo). You could tell by certain comments. And Becketts welcome was just worn out here. People were talking that we would have to eat at least 60+mm to get out from under the CC and Beckett contracts. Gonzo, although a solid defensive and offensive player, didnt seem to like it here and I think that contract would not look good at all in another 2-3 years. Personally, I thought it was too much to begin with, but thats JMO. We got out from under 260+mm for less than 12mm and got back 2 of their top pitcting prospects, a couple more kids that could turn out as nice additions, and Loney for the rest of the year until he hits FA. Also, we got our financial flexability back to bring in guys that are a better fit, and combined can make up the production on the field that just went west. The way I see it, the Sox got MORE than what they expected and LA paid more and gave up more than they should have. Winner = SOX
    Posted by southpaw777[/QUOTE]

    READ what I posted and try to understand. Take away all the other stuff

    MAN FOR MAN we got screwed....we got nothing in return that is as close to what we gave up.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from FenwayChuck. Show FenwayChuck's posts

    Re: Justification

    In Response to Re: Justification:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Justification : READ what I posted and try to understand. Take away all the other stuff MAN FOR MAN we got screwed....we got nothing in return that is as close to what we gave up.
    Posted by JimfromFlorida[/QUOTE]

    "WE" gave up something?  What in the heck did you have invested in it JIM?  I am sorry I must have missed where you were signing the $236 Million in paychecks....

    I understand loving a home towne team and I do... but damned YOU are being ridiculous....  We got TWO top 100 prospects ( if the article I read was right)... a guy who was a dodger top ten prospect a couple years ago.... and another player.... and we gogt $236million of CAP ROOM!   best of all JIM.... YOU GAVE UP NOTHING!
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from jpBsSoxFan. Show jpBsSoxFan's posts

    Re: Justification

    In Response to Re: Justification:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Justification : "WE" gave up something?  What in the heck did you have invested in it JIM?  I am sorry I must have missed where you were signing the $236 Million in paychecks.... I understand loving a home towne team and I do... but damned YOU are being ridiculous....  We got TWO top 100 prospects ( if the article I read was right)... a guy who was a dodger top ten prospect a couple years ago.... and another player.... and we gogt $236million of CAP ROOM!   best of all JIM.... YOU GAVE UP NOTHING!
    Posted by FenwayChuck[/QUOTE]
    I really hope this is sarcasm. Do you honestly think these 5 unproven no names will save the franchise ? I'm upset they threw in AGon. Did they really have to give away their best hitter ? So yes Jim is right, man for man in this trade the Sox got royally screwed.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Justification

    OP is right, not much in return. But what was the alternative to right a ship floundering for two straight seasons? Fire the manager? They did that last year. Absolutely no guarantee the Sox, Ben C, can rebuild. But they gotta try, and this was a good first step even though AGon is a big loss.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Justification

    In Response to Re: Justification:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Justification : They built it into a championship team first, then lost their way. I think since they did it before they understand and have the knowlege to do it again...weak argument on your part IMO...
    Posted by southpaw777[/QUOTE]

    Not this present ownership. The pieces, for the most part, were already in place. Present owners and management reaped the benefits.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Justification

    In Response to Re: Justification:
    [QUOTE]Man for man the RS got screwed.Not including money or any part of the contracts the RS got screwed.
    Posted by JimfromFlorida[/QUOTE]

    Agree Jim. But the fans got screwed the worst. 
    I don't care about team payroll, or Luxury taxes or player salaries, no fan should. it should be about putting the best players on the team to win.
    I don't think any other organization in baseball treats their players as bad as the Sox do, and unitil this organization and it's fans, quit treating players like commodoties and start treating them like people, it will be a long time before another WC flag flag flies at Fenway, IMO.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Justification

    In Response to Re: Justification:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Justification : 1st it is THREW Agon under the bus.... or he was thrown THROUGH a window.... LOL I don't believe Justification needs to be made about why AGon was sent in the deal....  I think it was a business deal, and they needed to make it work to better the entire company.  Cherington may be getting a job at Bain capitol soon. Anyway.... things to consider.. Agon trailed off the last half of last year, and was less than Stellar the first half of this year.... Agon's cell phone was used to complain to the management ( though it is said he did not do that) Agon was part of the complaint committee when they had an "airing out" of complaints a month or so ago. I am not saying that Agon was the cause of any of these... but he was at least complicit in many things that were not good from a management's point of view.   He is a good player, a good assett and he was liquidated because the owners needed to go a different direction.... again NO JUSTIFICATION IS NEEDED.... He does not have a right to be on the sox.... and NOW he is not there.
    Posted by FenwayChuck[/QUOTE]

    I was posting on my Ipad and the auto fill was enabled....wasn't paying attention and I couldn't see real well with the smaller font.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from FenwayChuck. Show FenwayChuck's posts

    Re: Justification

    In Response to Re: Justification:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Justification : I was posting on my Ipad and the auto fill was enabled....wasn't paying attention and I couldn't see real well with the smaller font.
    Posted by Alibiike[/QUOTE]
    It is okay, I was just giving you a ribbing...LOL   Now you blame that Godsend the IPAD for it?.... LOL  Come on.... who you trying to kid... Most Americans are so spoiled they don't think we can live without one...   I use my Tablet also... so I understand....  Have a great day
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Justification

    In Response to Re: Justification:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Justification : READ what I posted and try to understand. Take away all the other stuff MAN FOR MAN we got screwed....we got nothing in return that is as close to what we gave up.
    Posted by JimfromFlorida[/QUOTE]

    I understand your post...you READ my post and try and understand. It WASNT a man for man trade Jim, so it cant be looked at in that way. We dropped 260mm off the payroll AND got 2 of their TOP pitching prospects to boot along with 2 potential good position players and James Loney for the rest of the year.
    The Sox wanted to rid themselves of CC and Beckett in the worst way. They got an opportunity to do that in one deal and only eat 10-12mm. That is unheard of!!! They had to give up Gonzo, who appeared to be unhappy here anyway, to get it done. Gonzos production, with the $$ saved, can be duplicated at other positions.
    And CC and Becketts production can easily be duplicated and even better just by replacing each them. this team is not done yet Jim. Your a good poster here and I can tell your pretty emotional about this which shows your dedication. But I have to disagree with how your looking at the situation. It wasnt a player for player deal. Its more about ridding themselves of some mistakes and not only getting some of LA top prospects back, but only having to write a check for less than 12mm...BOTH teams got what they wanted. Actually, the Sox got more than I expected since I was expecting them to eat between 50-60mm to get rid of Beckett and CC...
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Justification

    In Response to Re: Justification:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Justification : I really hope this is sarcasm. Do you honestly think these 5 unproven no names will save the franchise ? I'm upset they threw in AGon. Did they really have to give away their best hitter ? So yes Jim is right, man for man in this trade the Sox got royally screwed.
    Posted by jpBsSoxFan[/QUOTE]

    I love how some people put words in others mouths. I havent read ONE poster here say that any of these 5 players will "save" the franchise. Only that we were able to get 2 of their top pitching prospects, 2 good position players and Loney for the remainder of the year and only have to pay 12mm. How does that equate to saving the franchise? please explain...
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Justification

    In Response to Re: Justification:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Justification : Not this present ownership. The pieces, for the most part, were already in place. Present owners and management reaped the benefits.
    Posted by Alibiike[/QUOTE]

    Yeah, Papi wasnt here, Beckett, Schilling, Mueller, Millar, Lowell, foulke, and pulled off the Nomar deal that brough OC, roberts here...Thats a LOT of names that helped them win 2 WSC alibi..yes, they had some pieces, but addeed the rest to put them over the top...but you can just keep down playing that if it supports your view...
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from SFBostonFan. Show SFBostonFan's posts

    Re: Justification

    Here is the real justification: Even with these departed guys, we were still a subpar under .500 team & not even going to make the wild card. Would Ortiz returning make the difference...don't think so...and he's hurt again. Was the Fairy going to wave her magic wand & change things so we'd suddenly compete in 2013. We had no money to go after anybody to make us better not that what we picked up from LA is the answer either.

    It just seemed we had no chemistry...no real clutch hitting, pitching and hitting were erratic, pitch well, no runs, hit well, lousy pitching etc. So, a change, drastic yes, but it needed be made & we might even clean house some more. Last night was another example of our team's misfortune...9 runs 20 hits and KC gets 10 runs with 6 fewer hits, 14 ! Sort of story of our season. I say kick the can down the road & build ala Tampa Bay with young, injury free, energetic, enthusiatic non costly prospects.

    So, instead of watching MLB stars for a few years, like in football, I enjoy watching college teams/ players. Heck, I've enjoyed watching the Little League World Series,especially Petaluma, only about 45 min north of where I live in Bay Area.
     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share