Justin Upton Declines Trade to Seattle

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnnyLefty. Show JohnnyLefty's posts

    Re: Justin Upton Declines Trade to Seattle

    I'm thinking a package for Upton would look something like this:

    Bradley
    De La Rosa
    Brentz
    Tazawa
    PTBNL (Basically a toss in) or Cash

    Our Bullpen guys other than Tazawa aren't gonna get it done, along with Doubront. I think Webster or De La Rosa is our best bet to be traded away

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Justin Upton Declines Trade to Seattle

    In response to JohnnyLefty's comment:

    I'm thinking a package for Upton would look something like this:

    Bradley
    De La Rosa
    Brentz
    Tazawa
    PTBNL (Basically a toss in) or Cash

    Our Bullpen guys other than Tazawa aren't gonna get it done, along with Doubront. I think Webster or De La Rosa is our best bet to be traded away



    AZ is stacked with OF'ers. That is one reason they are looking to trade Upton. I doubt they want Brentz over Owens, Cecchini or another pitcher. They may also insist on Bogaerts over Bradley.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Justin Upton Declines Trade to Seattle

    The reported Seattle offer is irrelevant because Justin Upton did not approve the trade.

    The Red Sox or another team might acquire Upton with a lesser offer if the offer is the best the Diamondbacks get.

    Or not.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Justin Upton Declines Trade to Seattle

    In response to hill55's comment:

    The reported Seattle offer is irrelevant because Justin Upton did not approve the trade.

    The Red Sox or another team might acquire Upton with a lesser offer if the offer is the best the Diamondbacks get.

    Or not.



    True enough, but if the reported Seattle offer is what we think it is, it does show about what AZ was demanding and wants.

    Do you see Furbush and Pryor as big pieces?

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxpride34. Show redsoxpride34's posts

    Re: Justin Upton Declines Trade to Seattle

    the main pieces in the deal are walker and franklin, pryor and furbush are add ins with little value. looking at franklin and walker, a comparable deal from the sox would look like this:

     

    bradley

    barnes/webster/de la rosa

    wilson

    workman/britton

     

    would i do that? absolutely. a hitter of uptons caliber is much needed in this line up

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Justin Upton Declines Trade to Seattle

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    True enough, but if the reported Seattle offer is what we think it is, it does show about what AZ was demanding and wants. Do you see Furbush and Pryor as big pieces?


    Of course, Justin Upton would need to approve a trade to the Red Sox, who are on his limited no-trade list.

    Stephen Pryor is a 23-year-old righthander whose fastball averaged 96.3 mph last year. Pryor, who remains under team control for six years, has been ranked Seattle's sixth-, 11th- and 14th-best prospect by MLB.com Prospect Watch, John Sickels and FanGraphs, respectively. I don't see a reasonable comp among Red Sox prospects, but he resembles fellow Mariner prospect Carter Capps, a 22-year-old righthander whose fastball averaged 98.3 mph in 2012. Pryor and Capps are considered closer material.

    Charlie Furbush, a 26-year-old lefthander who remains under team control for five seasons, held opposing hitters to a .174 batting average in 46.1 innings last season while posting an ERA of 2.72, a WHIP of 0.95, a K/9 of 10.3 and a BB/9 of 3.11. The Red Sox lack a comparable reliever in terms of recent performance and years of control.

    I would think that Pryor and Furbush have some value.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Justin Upton Declines Trade to Seattle

    In response to hill55's comment:

    The Red Sox or another team might acquire Upton with a lesser offer if the offer is the best the Diamondbacks get.


    Then again, Arizona might not accept a lesser offer if the Diamondbacks harbor resentment against Justin Upton.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Justin Upton Declines Trade to Seattle

    Barnes, Bogy, Doubront and one of Owens/RDLR/Webster would do it I would think...Which is far too much for what the Sox currently have in their system. Upton is not nearly the "game changer" some make him out to be to warrant such a return...

    AZ doesnt need any OF'ers and I doubt unless his name was Stanton or Trout would accept it. Draft compensation or not. Not sure theyre looking to get back a 10M one year rental.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Justin Upton Declines Trade to Seattle

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    Barnes, Bogy, Doubront and one of Owens/RDLR/Webster would do it I would think...Which is far too much for what the Sox currently have in their system. Upton is not nearly the "game changer" some make him out to be to warrant such a return...



    Absolutely agree.  And there are some nasty red flags on Upton.  How much was he affected by his shoulder injury last year and is it an injury that will continue to affect him?  Last year his slugging pct. was only .430, and for a really scary number, his slugging pct. in road games last year was a feeble .344.  78 starts in road games, 16 extra base hits and 20 RBI.  He was a non-entity away from his home park last year.

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Justin Upton Declines Trade to Seattle

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to hill55's comment:

    An offer of Xander Bogaerts, Matt Barnes, Franklin Morales and Daniel Bard would likely fall short of the reported Seattle offer. Based on prospect rankings, Bogaerts-Barnes is the rough equivalent of Walker-Franklin, but years of control and recent performance give Furbush-Pryor more trade value than Morales-Bard.



    We could offer more than 4 players, and I think offering them Doubront and Tazawa over Morales and Bard, plus giving 2 from Cecchini, Brentz, Lava or Owens is enough to take Bogaerts or Barnes out of the offer you listed above.

    It's hard to know how AZ values our prospects as compared to BA's rankings.



    Moon,


    As you know when discussing trading prospects, you have to take into consideration the depth that Arizona has at any one particular position within thier organization...Cleary every team would like to aquire one of Seattle's young arms all of whom have been touted as legit big league prospects.

    If the deal reported has merit...I'd say that the Mariners are desparate enough to over pay to land a bat that otherwise would never sign with them and not because it's an armpit, it's hardly that. Does that mean that the Sox have to match what is an overpay for a player that has the potential to be but is not yet worhty of that level of compensation? The short answer is no..

    In Uptons case all he and his representitive need do, is look at the cause and effect that playing in Safeco had on Adrian Beltre's value and his stats during his time with the Mariners...In the end Upton has three years remaining on his current contract, given that he's yet to fulfill the promise that many saw as a legit middle of the order hitter. While playing 81 games in one of the better hitters parks. Why would he if given the option, chose to play in a park that's death to righthanded power hitters.

    That said, Arizona is trying to sell him based on the promise of more as he enters his prime. They're also using the leverage of his being under contract for three more seasons. In the end if the team aquiring wants to pay for the potential of vs what he's already shown. That's the inherant risk in aquiring him. So if we elimanate his name from the top of the resume and look at his stats...What is the value of a player that is a freakish athlete (which can't be dismissed) who is just entering his prime that with more than three seasons of datas to evaluatem that has not shown any real incremental improvements (see his HM/RD splits). One that today profiles as a solid #5 hitter on a good team and a middle of the road #3 hitter, when compared to the statistics of every ML teams production from those spots in the line-up...A player that also is not or has not shown that he's an asset in the field and is still a work in progress..Therein lyes the conundrum...

    I'll add that if we were to make a similar offer, I'd be just fine with it...however I'd hate to make that move only to find out that we spent our bullets to soon and lost on the chance to trade for Stanton...Who I think is worth 4 or 5 top prospects...

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Justin Upton Declines Trade to Seattle

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    Barnes, Bogy, Doubront and one of Owens/RDLR/Webster would do it I would think...Which is far too much for what the Sox currently have in their system. Upton is not nearly the "game changer" some make him out to be to warrant such a return...



    Absolutely agree.  And there are some nasty red flags on Upton.  How much was he affected by his shoulder injury last year and is it an injury that will continue to affect him?  Last year his slugging pct. was only .430, and for a really scary number, his slugging pct. in road games last year was a feeble .344.  78 starts in road games, 16 extra base hits and 20 RBI.  He was a non-entity away from his home park last year.

     




    This is what Ive been trying to tell some people. Hes got talent, that cant be argued. But his stats are nothing more than erratic. I would gladly give the list of prospects I suggested (maybe adding another OF'r) for Stanton.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Iceman4. Show Iceman4's posts

    Re: Justin Upton Declines Trade to Seattle

    Stanton

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Justin Upton Declines Trade to Seattle

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    Barnes, Bogy, Doubront and one of Owens/RDLR/Webster would do it I would think...Which is far too much for what the Sox currently have in their system. Upton is not nearly the "game changer" some make him out to be to warrant such a return...



    Absolutely agree.  And there are some nasty red flags on Upton.  How much was he affected by his shoulder injury last year and is it an injury that will continue to affect him?  Last year his slugging pct. was only .430, and for a really scary number, his slugging pct. in road games last year was a feeble .344.  78 starts in road games, 16 extra base hits and 20 RBI.  He was a non-entity away from his home park last year.

     




    This is what Ive been trying to tell some people. Hes got talent, that cant be argued. But his stats are nothing more than erratic. I would gladly give the list of prospects I suggested (maybe adding another OF'r) for Stanton.




    I was going to say largely the same thing. J Upton is the Josh Beckett of outfielders, one great year, one crappy year. Not a guy you clean out your farm system for IMHO.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Justin Upton Declines Trade to Seattle

    In response to carnie's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    Barnes, Bogy, Doubront and one of Owens/RDLR/Webster would do it I would think...Which is far too much for what the Sox currently have in their system. Upton is not nearly the "game changer" some make him out to be to warrant such a return...



    Absolutely agree.  And there are some nasty red flags on Upton.  How much was he affected by his shoulder injury last year and is it an injury that will continue to affect him?  Last year his slugging pct. was only .430, and for a really scary number, his slugging pct. in road games last year was a feeble .344.  78 starts in road games, 16 extra base hits and 20 RBI.  He was a non-entity away from his home park last year.

     




    This is what Ive been trying to tell some people. Hes got talent, that cant be argued. But his stats are nothing more than erratic. I would gladly give the list of prospects I suggested (maybe adding another OF'r) for Stanton.




    I was going to say largely the same thing. J Upton is the Josh Beckett of outfielders, one great year, one crappy year. Not a guy you clean out your farm system for IMHO.



    I wouldn't call .799 "crappy", his 2012 numbers were injury-influenced, and he's only 25. How old was Beckett when we got him? Who led us to the ring in 2007?

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Justin Upton Declines Trade to Seattle

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to carnie's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    Barnes, Bogy, Doubront and one of Owens/RDLR/Webster would do it I would think...Which is far too much for what the Sox currently have in their system. Upton is not nearly the "game changer" some make him out to be to warrant such a return...



    Absolutely agree.  And there are some nasty red flags on Upton.  How much was he affected by his shoulder injury last year and is it an injury that will continue to affect him?  Last year his slugging pct. was only .430, and for a really scary number, his slugging pct. in road games last year was a feeble .344.  78 starts in road games, 16 extra base hits and 20 RBI.  He was a non-entity away from his home park last year.

     




    This is what Ive been trying to tell some people. Hes got talent, that cant be argued. But his stats are nothing more than erratic. I would gladly give the list of prospects I suggested (maybe adding another OF'r) for Stanton.




    I was going to say largely the same thing. J Upton is the Josh Beckett of outfielders, one great year, one crappy year. Not a guy you clean out your farm system for IMHO.



    I wouldn't call .799 "crappy", his 2012 numbers were injury-influenced, and he's only 25. How old was Beckett when we got him? Who led us to the ring in 2007?




    OK, crappy was a bit hyperbolic but is Upton the guy who puts you over the top? I don't think so. He's a nice complementary piece but he's no Manny Ramirez, although he does seem to share some of Manny's attitude traits. My point is he's not worth emptying out the farm for. And I'll continue to stand by that opinion. I personally would much rather see Xander and JBJ and Matt Barnes and RDLR playing in Fenway than J. Upton. And it would likely take all four of them to interest AZ. Then there's Upton's no trade clause that includes Boston.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Justin Upton Declines Trade to Seattle

    OK, crappy was a bit hyperbolic but is Upton the guy who puts you over the top? I don't think so. He's a nice complementary piece but he's no Manny Ramirez, although he does seem to share some of Manny's attitude traits. My point is he's not worth emptying out the farm for. And I'll continue to stand by that opinion. I personally would much rather see Xander and JBJ and Matt Barnes and RDLR playing in Fenway than J. Upton. And it would likely take all four of them to interest AZ. Then there's Upton's no trade clause that includes Boston.

    1) I guess you are assuming a 25 year old player will not improve over the next 3 years of team control.

    2) It won't take those 4 players to get him. We can probably make a 5-6 player deal involving only 1 of those guys.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Justin Upton Declines Trade to Seattle

    In response to carnie's comment:

    OK, crappy was a bit hyperbolic but is Upton the guy who puts you over the top? I don't think so. He's a nice complementary piece but he's no Manny Ramirez, although he does seem to share some of Manny's attitude traits. My point is he's not worth emptying out the farm for. And I'll continue to stand by that opinion. I personally would much rather see Xander and JBJ and Matt Barnes and RDLR playing in Fenway than J. Upton. And it would likely take all four of them to interest AZ. 



    We just went through this with A-Gon.  He was supposed to be a lefthanded Manny, 35-40 HR's a year easy.  Meanwhile Anthony Rizzo had more power and a higher OPS+ last year than A-Gon.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: Justin Upton Declines Trade to Seattle

     

    Boston is included in Upton's no-trade list?!?  WTF?!?   LOL

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Justin Upton Declines Trade to Seattle

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    Barnes, Bogy, Doubront and one of Owens/RDLR/Webster would do it I would think...Which is far too much for what the Sox currently have in their system. Upton is not nearly the "game changer" some make him out to be to warrant such a return...



    Absolutely agree.  And there are some nasty red flags on Upton.  How much was he affected by his shoulder injury last year and is it an injury that will continue to affect him?  Last year his slugging pct. was only .430, and for a really scary number, his slugging pct. in road games last year was a feeble .344.  78 starts in road games, 16 extra base hits and 20 RBI.  He was a non-entity away from his home park last year.

     



     Based on earlier reports as to what AZ was looking for, they probably asked for a package surrounding  Borgarts, Middlebrooks or both, and thats where the conversation ended.  While the Sox may consider either player in a deal for someone, Justin Upton is definitely not that player.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: Justin Upton Declines Trade to Seattle

    In response to Ice-Cream's comment:

     

    Boston is included in Upton's no-trade list?!?  WTF?!?   LOL

     




    It's usually just a strategy to get an extention or other perks from the team on the list, if a trade is worked out with said team.

    The Sox and Yankees are on a lot of "No-Trade" lists, simply because of their payrolls.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: Justin Upton Declines Trade to Seattle

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:

    In response to Ice-Cream's comment:

     

    Boston is included in Upton's no-trade list?!?  WTF?!?   LOL

     




    It's usually just a strategy to get an extention or other perks from the team on the list, if a trade is worked out with said team.

    The Sox and Yankees are on a lot of "No-Trade" lists, simply because of their payrolls.



    Thanks ThefourBs for the explanation.   :)

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: Justin Upton Declines Trade to Seattle

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:

    In response to Ice-Cream's comment:

     Boston is included in Upton's no-trade list?!?  WTF?!?   LOL

     



    It's usually just a strategy to get an extention or other perks from the team on the list, if a trade is worked out with said team.

    The Sox and Yankees are on a lot of "No-Trade" lists, simply because of their payrolls.



    Actuslly, it's tied to player preferences...if the guy is already stating he doesn't want to be traded to Boston, why try to force it and acquire a player who would not adapt well to playing here, it could turn into another Renteria situation...that was a disaster.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Justin Upton Declines Trade to Seattle

    In response to Soxdog67's comment:

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:

    In response to Ice-Cream's comment:

     Boston is included in Upton's no-trade list?!?  WTF?!?   LOL

     



    It's usually just a strategy to get an extention or other perks from the team on the list, if a trade is worked out with said team.

    The Sox and Yankees are on a lot of "No-Trade" lists, simply because of their payrolls.



    Actuslly, it's tied to player preferences...if the guy is already stating he doesn't want to be traded to Boston, why try to force it and acquire a player who would not adapt well to playing here, it could turn into another Renteria situation...that was a disaster.



    Soxdog, Four Bs is right.  Most players who have a limited no-trade always include the big market clubs to give them leverage in the event of a possible trade.  Since the Yanks and Sox are usually in on any available player, they are almost ways included.  There are obvious exceptions, but they are definitely not the norm.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Justin Upton Declines Trade to Seattle

    In response to Soxdog67's comment:

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:

    In response to Ice-Cream's comment:

     Boston is included in Upton's no-trade list?!?  WTF?!?   LOL

     



    It's usually just a strategy to get an extention or other perks from the team on the list, if a trade is worked out with said team.

    The Sox and Yankees are on a lot of "No-Trade" lists, simply because of their payrolls.



    Actuslly, it's tied to player preferences...if the guy is already stating he doesn't want to be traded to Boston, why try to force it and acquire a player who would not adapt well to playing here, it could turn into another Renteria situation...that was a disaster.



    Soxdog, Four Bs is right.  Most players who have a limited no-trade always include the big market clubs to give them leverage in the event of a possible trade.  Since the Yanks and Sox are usually in on any available player, they are almost ways included.  There are obvious exceptions, but they are definitely not the norm.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Justin Upton Declines Trade to Seattle

    In response to jasko2248's comment:

    In response to Soxdog67's comment:

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:

    In response to Ice-Cream's comment:

     Boston is included in Upton's no-trade list?!?  WTF?!?   LOL

     



    It's usually just a strategy to get an extention or other perks from the team on the list, if a trade is worked out with said team.

    The Sox and Yankees are on a lot of "No-Trade" lists, simply because of their payrolls.



    Actuslly, it's tied to player preferences...if the guy is already stating he doesn't want to be traded to Boston, why try to force it and acquire a player who would not adapt well to playing here, it could turn into another Renteria situation...that was a disaster.



    Soxdog, Four Bs is right.  Most players who have a limited no-trade always include the big market clubs to give them leverage in the event of a possible trade.  Since the Yanks and Sox are usually in on any available player, they are almost ways included.  There are obvious exceptions, but they are definitely not the norm.




    So not only would we have to empty the farm system, we'd also have to pay him like a free agent. Pass.

     
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