Kemp trade re-opens and Sox again interested

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Kemp trade re-opens and Sox again interested

    Reggie Smith and Tommy Harper went through ridiculous scrutiny by their own owner, but the fans did love them. I know I was a big fan of both.

    Tommy Harper is 100% the reason I am a Sox fan.

    When I lived in Milwaukee as a child, the Seattle Pilots moved to Milwaukee.  I lived 2 blocks from the old County Stadium. I used to pay a buck as watch Tommy play from the bleachers or ride my bike to the Veteran's Hospital (where I had a paper route) up on a cliff overlooking most of the field. He had a 30-30 season back then, and for a bad team, he was pretty much all there was to root for.

    My family moved to Portland Maine when I was going into the 6th grade, and shortly afterwards, Harper was traded to the Red Sox. It's the only team I switched to. I'm still a Packer and Bucks fan, but I've been a Sox fan since the trade.

    Hearing about how Harper was treated years after the fact upset me, but such is life. Nobody said it was always fair, but I think Tommy handled himself well. I've never had a favorite player like him since he retired.

     

    Sox4ever

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Kemp trade re-opens and Sox again interested

    In response to ampoule's comment:

    By the way, if, and I hope, Ben Carson runs for president, he'll get my vote.

    Perhaps your vote can replace that of your favorite, Dinesh D'Souza, who is about to lose his right to vote, his right to hold most public offices and his right to bear arms.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/may/20/dinesh-dsouza-pleads-guilty-campaign-finance-viola/" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/may/20/dinesh-dsouza-pleads-guilty-campaign-finance-viola/

    Sorry, ampoule, I could not resist.

    Peace be with you, my friend.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ampoule. Show ampoule's posts

    Re: Kemp trade re-opens and Sox again interested

    In response to hill55's comment:


    In response to ampoule's comment:


    By the way, if, and I hope, Ben Carson runs for president, he'll get my vote.


    Perhaps your vote can replace that of your favorite, Dinesh D'Souza, who is about to lose his right to vote, his right to hold most public offices and his right to bear arms.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/may/20/dinesh-dsouza-pleads-guilty-campaign-finance-viola/" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/may/20/dinesh-dsouza-pleads-guilty-campaign-finance-viola/" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/may/20/dinesh-dsouza-pleads-guilty-campaign-finance-viola/" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/may/20/dinesh-dsouza-pleads-guilty-campaign-finance-viola/" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/may/20/dinesh-dsouza-pleads-guilty-campaign-finance-viola/


    Sorry, ampoule, I could not resist.


    Peace be with you, my friend.






    You're right.  He is one of my favorites, but I don't think his movie 'America' goes over well up there in Portland...sold out here in Roseburg.


    Do you not think the embellished charges against him are due to his anti-Obama stance?

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Kemp trade re-opens and Sox again interested

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Reggie Smith and Tommy Harper went through ridiculous scrutiny by their own owner, but the fans did love them. I know I was a big fan of both.

    Tommy Harper is 100% the reason I am a Sox fan.

    When I lived in Milwaukee as a child, the Seattle Pilots moved to Milwaukee.  I lived 2 blocks from the old County Stadium. I used to pay a buck as watch Tommy play from the bleachers or ride my bike to the Veteran's Hospital (where I had a paper route) up on a cliff overlooking most of the field. He had a 30-30 season back then, and for a bad team, he was pretty much all there was to root for.

    My family moved to Portland Maine when I was going into the 6th grade, and shortly afterwards, Harper was traded to the Red Sox. It's the only team I switched to. I'm still a Packer and Bucks fan, but I've been a Sox fan since the trade.

    Hearing about how Harper was treated years after the fact upset me, but such is life. Nobody said it was always fair, but I think Tommy handled himself well. I've never had a favorite player like him since he retired.

     

    Sox4ever

    [/QUOTE]

    I remember you mentioning Harper a long time ago. Very under-rated player in his time and he was lightning on the base paths--73 steals one year. Harper gets traded for Bobby Heise--ugh. I got to see Reggie Smith at a salute of his career at Dodger Stadium. Smith once got hit in by Rick Reuschel during a game I saw at Chavez Ravine. He was really in bad shape already before the HBP but Reggie limped his way step by step to the mound and Reuschel just stood there in disbelief and Reggie swung a right and knocked him down. Craziest thing I've ever seen. Sox got Wise and Carbo in the Smith deal so kind of worked out in '75, but Smith was a heckuva a player. I was stunned that he led the AL twice in doubles as a Sox, but with such small numbers 37 and 33....DEAD BALL ERA. 1968 AND 71.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Kemp trade re-opens and Sox again interested

    In response to jasko2248's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to georom4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    When you dont want to let go of Workman or Betts, you know you're wound up too tight. You play to win every year - not to create a dynasty because there is no such thing in mlb anymore...objecting to the money is one thing but considering the fact that we are a wealthy franchise with huge revenues and a history of overpaying anyways, what difference does it make? The only way you would say no to the deal is because you think Workman/Betts are going to be stars some day....and I like both but like i said, the LAD arent going to take Carp and Breslow for kemp

     

    As always - 100% correct!

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't think anyone is saying that they won't let go of Betts or Workman.  What people are saying is that there is no way that they would let go of Betts or Workman for Matt Kemp.  Big difference.

    [/QUOTE]


    Exactly.

    Nick Swisher would also be an improvement in the Sox OF, too, but that doesn't mean the Sox should trade Betts and Workman for him...

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Kemp trade re-opens and Sox again interested

    In response to notin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to jasko2248's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to georom4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    When you dont want to let go of Workman or Betts, you know you're wound up too tight. You play to win every year - not to create a dynasty because there is no such thing in mlb anymore...objecting to the money is one thing but considering the fact that we are a wealthy franchise with huge revenues and a history of overpaying anyways, what difference does it make? The only way you would say no to the deal is because you think Workman/Betts are going to be stars some day....and I like both but like i said, the LAD arent going to take Carp and Breslow for kemp

     

    As always - 100% correct!

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't think anyone is saying that they won't let go of Betts or Workman.  What people are saying is that there is no way that they would let go of Betts or Workman for Matt Kemp.  Big difference.

    [/QUOTE]


    Exactly.

    Nick Swisher would also be an improvement in the Sox OF, too, but that doesn't mean the Sox should trade Betts and Workman for him...

    [/QUOTE]

    Swisher is a good clubhouse guy who I think has helped Cleveland...more so in the clubhouse. Having his worst year and will be hard-pressed to keep his 9-year streak of 20 or more HR going. His career is going on a downswing as we speak. And I agree with notin, he would be an improvement to what they have in LF or RF (as long as Holt isn't there). 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Kemp trade re-opens and Sox again interested

    In response to dannycater's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to notin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to jasko2248's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to georom4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    When you dont want to let go of Workman or Betts, you know you're wound up too tight. You play to win every year - not to create a dynasty because there is no such thing in mlb anymore...objecting to the money is one thing but considering the fact that we are a wealthy franchise with huge revenues and a history of overpaying anyways, what difference does it make? The only way you would say no to the deal is because you think Workman/Betts are going to be stars some day....and I like both but like i said, the LAD arent going to take Carp and Breslow for kemp

     

    As always - 100% correct!

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't think anyone is saying that they won't let go of Betts or Workman.  What people are saying is that there is no way that they would let go of Betts or Workman for Matt Kemp.  Big difference.

    [/QUOTE]


    Exactly.

    Nick Swisher would also be an improvement in the Sox OF, too, but that doesn't mean the Sox should trade Betts and Workman for him...

    [/QUOTE]

    Swisher is a good clubhouse guy who I think has helped Cleveland...more so in the clubhouse. Having his worst year and will be hard-pressed to keep his 9-year streak of 20 or more HR going. His career is going on a downswing as we speak. And I agree with notin, he would be an improvement to what they have in LF or RF (as long as Holt isn't there). 

    [/QUOTE]


    He was just an example of how easy it is for the Sox to improve out there, and why it is not necessary to include Betts+ to get it done.

    There are plenty of OF the Sox could and should include Betts to acquire - Stanton, Cargo, Bruce, etc - some of whom are likely to be available.  georom's whole premise is "Betts for Kemp" or nothing, which i don't get.

    AA better and more interesting thought might be Betts for Marcell Ozuna.  If Miami extends Stanton, which they might, why wouldn't they do it?

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Kemp trade re-opens and Sox again interested

    the fact is that we have a terrible outfield with no power - you are not going to improve it without signing a player for tens of millions of dollars - given the successful track record of the Sox bringing players in mid-season and thriving at Fenway, I would take a chance on Kemp. Hes a former MVP and right handed batter with pop. With the money freed from some of the other contracts we could easily afford him and then go after MaxS (i think Lester is a goner sadly) Even if we give away a Betts or Workman we still have Felix D, JBJ, Boegie, Owens and the rest of the cavalry to keep on improving. But what a lot of people seem to be signing onto here is Theo's five year plan and thats bs. I have no desire to tank games for three years so that the farm system is rated great.  You need to have both productive vets and young players in the mix. You play to win now - not in the future. Remember the bridge year? Yea that worked out well, right? Well this and 2012 are the bridge collapses year. 

    As always - 100% correct!

     
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Kemp trade re-opens and Sox again interested

    In response to georom4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    the fact is that we have a terrible outfield with no power - you are not going to improve it without signing a player for tens of millions of dollars - given the successful track record of the Sox bringing players in mid-season and thriving at Fenway, I would take a chance on Kemp. Hes a former MVP and right handed batter with pop. With the money freed from some of the other contracts we could easily afford him and then go after MaxS (i think Lester is a goner sadly) Even if we give away a Betts or Workman we still have Felix D, JBJ, Boegie, Owens and the rest of the cavalry to keep on improving. But what a lot of people seem to be signing onto here is Theo's five year plan and thats bs. I have no desire to tank games for three years so that the farm system is rated great.  You need to have both productive vets and young players in the mix. You play to win now - not in the future. Remember the bridge year? Yea that worked out well, right? Well this and 2012 are the bridge collapses year. 

    As always - 100% correct!

     [/QUOTE]

    This is The Bridge Over the Charles River (Kwai) season. I don't feel comfortable with Kemp, but I think he is a much better option that CC was at the time he was signed way back when. I like Kemp, I do, and I got to see him in his best few seasons, but it's sad that he can have a downswing due to injuries. Maybe it's the whole thing about a West Coast or Gulf Coast black star player adjusting to Sox/Boston media thing, but I really see some explosive potential to that aspect. Kemp living in LA has gotten very cozy with the environment of playing in a soft large market. He's taken some abuse, but certainly not to the extent that columnists would roast him alive in Boston. Still he has that potential to be a big hitter at Fenway. He could launch the ball at will to LF, and he would hit HRs to CF with ease when he's on. I really don't care about the prospects, the Sox seem to generate tons of them (Iglesias, Bogaerts, Middlebrooks, Betts, Bradley, etc) and if they go on to be All-Stars (Hanley, Moss) then so be it. But get the power hitter you want, not the only one available at trade break. This is why Ben gets paid the big bucks...:-)

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Kemp trade re-opens and Sox again interested

    In response to georom4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    the fact is that we have a terrible outfield with no power - you are not going to improve it without signing a player for tens of millions of dollars - given the successful track record of the Sox bringing players in mid-season and thriving at Fenway, I would take a chance on Kemp. Hes a former MVP and right handed batter with pop. With the money freed from some of the other contracts we could easily afford him and then go after MaxS (i think Lester is a goner sadly) Even if we give away a Betts or Workman we still have Felix D, JBJ, Boegie, Owens and the rest of the cavalry to keep on improving. But what a lot of people seem to be signing onto here is Theo's five year plan and thats bs. I have no desire to tank games for three years so that the farm system is rated great.  You need to have both productive vets and young players in the mix. You play to win now - not in the future. Remember the bridge year? Yea that worked out well, right? Well this and 2012 are the bridge collapses year. 

    As always - 100% correct!

     [/QUOTE]

    Did it ever occur to you the reason why a lot of these vets come in here and succeed is because they were the right guys???? that doesn't mean that the green monster is some silver bullet that turns all into rejuvenated people.  Wally isn't going to magically change Matt Kemps Physiology.

    Maybe, the Sox have a good track record of bringing in people because they don't take chances on guys like Kemp????

    Guys age and get old, and guys get hurt too.  When you combined those two factors there is an even greater elevated risk of BOTH happening again.  Kemp is a serious risk, and I'm not saying it couldn't be worth it for the right price...my only discrepancy is the trade you proposed is completely out of line.  No GM would trade their best prospect, and one of their best pitching prospects for a guy who is entering 30, has a bad injury history and has seen a dramatic drop off in his production since his injuries.  NO GM would even consider that.

    The trade proposal is one thing, but then to even suggest we eat all of his money because we are taking a chance that this guy revives his career???  Which brings me back to my first sentence,  Guys age...many slow down starting at age 30, some last several more years before they see a dramatic drop off.  Kemp will be 30 soon and has 5 years left.  Guys also get injured, and not all injuries are created equal; a broken bone is a broken bone, a pulled hamstring is a pulled hamstring.....but when a player not only has a long list of injuries but they also have had multiple surgeries then things change.  Surgery isn't always 100% effective, and guys often come back no the same man they once were and when are playing at the top level with the best athletes in the world at you sport the difference between being 100% and being 90% can be the difference between being Matt Kemp in 2011 Matt Kemp and being 2013-2014 Matt Kemp.   Even if he remains relatively healthy, but the exponential effect of his age and injury history has the potential to make things very very very very ugly.

    I'm sorry Gerome, I don't want to keep attacking you trade proposal but that is just a dumb risk for ANY team to take.  As I said originally if Ben C. made that trade

    Mookie Betts, Brandon Workman for Matt Kemp (with the Sox eating all the salary) 

    then he should be fired and chased out of town. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Kemp trade re-opens and Sox again interested

    Don't forget that Beltre had some weak seasons in Seattle and no one thought he would suddenly return to form in Boston, then really turn it up in Texas too. His upswing was outstanding and was against the age thing. 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Kemp trade re-opens and Sox again interested

    I thought he was a great signing, and others including the Sox felt he was a good acquistion, so I shouldn't have said "no one" but there were many doubters based on his Seattle run.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Kemp trade re-opens and Sox again interested

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to georom4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    the fact is that we have a terrible outfield with no power - you are not going to improve it without signing a player for tens of millions of dollars - given the successful track record of the Sox bringing players in mid-season and thriving at Fenway, I would take a chance on Kemp. Hes a former MVP and right handed batter with pop. With the money freed from some of the other contracts we could easily afford him and then go after MaxS (i think Lester is a goner sadly) Even if we give away a Betts or Workman we still have Felix D, JBJ, Boegie, Owens and the rest of the cavalry to keep on improving. But what a lot of people seem to be signing onto here is Theo's five year plan and thats bs. I have no desire to tank games for three years so that the farm system is rated great.  You need to have both productive vets and young players in the mix. You play to win now - not in the future. Remember the bridge year? Yea that worked out well, right? Well this and 2012 are the bridge collapses year. 

    As always - 100% correct!

     [/QUOTE]

    Did it ever occur to you the reason why a lot of these vets come in here and succeed is because they were the right guys???? that doesn't mean that the green monster is some silver bullet that turns all into rejuvenated people.  Wally isn't going to magically change Matt Kemps Physiology.

    Maybe, the Sox have a good track record of bringing in people because they don't take chances on guys like Kemp????

    Guys age and get old, and guys get hurt too.  When you combined those two factors there is an even greater elevated risk of BOTH happening again.  Kemp is a serious risk, and I'm not saying it couldn't be worth it for the right price...my only discrepancy is the trade you proposed is completely out of line.  No GM would trade their best prospect, and one of their best pitching prospects for a guy who is entering 30, has a bad injury history and has seen a dramatic drop off in his production since his injuries.  NO GM would even consider that.

    The trade proposal is one thing, but then to even suggest we eat all of his money because we are taking a chance that this guy revives his career???  Which brings me back to my first sentence,  Guys age...many slow down starting at age 30, some last several more years before they see a dramatic drop off.  Kemp will be 30 soon and has 5 years left.  Guys also get injured, and not all injuries are created equal; a broken bone is a broken bone, a pulled hamstring is a pulled hamstring.....but when a player not only has a long list of injuries but they also have had multiple surgeries then things change.  Surgery isn't always 100% effective, and guys often come back no the same man they once were and when are playing at the top level with the best athletes in the world at you sport the difference between being 100% and being 90% can be the difference between being Matt Kemp in 2011 Matt Kemp and being 2013-2014 Matt Kemp.   Even if he remains relatively healthy, but the exponential effect of his age and injury history has the potential to make things very very very very ugly.

    I'm sorry Gerome, I don't want to keep attacking you trade proposal but that is just a dumb risk for ANY team to take.  As I said originally if Ben C. made that trade

    Mookie Betts, Brandon Workman for Matt Kemp (with the Sox eating all the salary) 

    then he should be fired and chased out of town. 

    [/QUOTE]


    if kemp werent such a stud and signed early on to this contract, he wouldve been hitting free agency at this time. he is younger than lester and pedroia - your injury talk is like something out of 1978 - dozens of players have come back from far more serious injuries and have done quite well...once again given his career stats, what would have been the going price for him this hot stove? you really think Drew deserved the QO at 15 million and Kemp doesnt? do you really believe Kemp would be signed today on the open market for 3/25? you must think he is some kind of invalid the way you describe him....he's not and his numbers right now make him better than 3/4 of the Sox team and the entire outfield...you really concerned about Workman? lol  betts has 25 homers since 2011...you want to pair him and JBJ together in the outfield for the next ten years? one of them must go because you cant have to undersized slap hitting outfielders in power positions - I like JBJ better  

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Kemp trade re-opens and Sox again interested

    In response to dannycater's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Don't forget that Beltre had some weak seasons in Seattle and no one thought he would suddenly return to form in Boston, then really turn it up in Texas too. His upswing was outstanding and was against the age thing. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Beltre didn't have a laundry list of injuries, and there is a much much much much longer lists of players who don't do what Beltre do than people who follow his path.  If you are trying to make a point on what Kemp might become if he comes to Boston...using the exception and not the rule is a bad point. 

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Kemp trade re-opens and Sox again interested

    It's a bad point? Wow, I don't see him as an exception. In 2009, he hit 8 HR, he was hurt and he was 30 years old. He had his worst season in the big leagues. Kemp is 29, came off a very tough injury that he came back too soon. I don't think he is damaged goods for good, and I think he's going to have a major upswing, and maybe it involves him leaving LA.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Kemp trade re-opens and Sox again interested

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dannycater's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Don't forget that Beltre had some weak seasons in Seattle and no one thought he would suddenly return to form in Boston, then really turn it up in Texas too. His upswing was outstanding and was against the age thing. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Beltre didn't have a laundry list of injuries, and there is a much much much much longer lists of players who don't do what Beltre do than people who follow his path.  If you are trying to make a point on what Kemp might become if he comes to Boston...using the exception and not the rule is a bad point. 

    [/QUOTE]

    and Vmart would stop hitting and get old real quick....sounds like the same old company line...you must love Theo's 5 year Plan...

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Kemp trade re-opens and Sox again interested

    In response to georom4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to georom4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    the fact is that we have a terrible outfield with no power - you are not going to improve it without signing a player for tens of millions of dollars - given the successful track record of the Sox bringing players in mid-season and thriving at Fenway, I would take a chance on Kemp. Hes a former MVP and right handed batter with pop. With the money freed from some of the other contracts we could easily afford him and then go after MaxS (i think Lester is a goner sadly) Even if we give away a Betts or Workman we still have Felix D, JBJ, Boegie, Owens and the rest of the cavalry to keep on improving. But what a lot of people seem to be signing onto here is Theo's five year plan and thats bs. I have no desire to tank games for three years so that the farm system is rated great.  You need to have both productive vets and young players in the mix. You play to win now - not in the future. Remember the bridge year? Yea that worked out well, right? Well this and 2012 are the bridge collapses year. 

    As always - 100% correct!

     [/QUOTE]

    Did it ever occur to you the reason why a lot of these vets come in here and succeed is because they were the right guys???? that doesn't mean that the green monster is some silver bullet that turns all into rejuvenated people.  Wally isn't going to magically change Matt Kemps Physiology.

    Maybe, the Sox have a good track record of bringing in people because they don't take chances on guys like Kemp????

    Guys age and get old, and guys get hurt too.  When you combined those two factors there is an even greater elevated risk of BOTH happening again.  Kemp is a serious risk, and I'm not saying it couldn't be worth it for the right price...my only discrepancy is the trade you proposed is completely out of line.  No GM would trade their best prospect, and one of their best pitching prospects for a guy who is entering 30, has a bad injury history and has seen a dramatic drop off in his production since his injuries.  NO GM would even consider that.

    The trade proposal is one thing, but then to even suggest we eat all of his money because we are taking a chance that this guy revives his career???  Which brings me back to my first sentence,  Guys age...many slow down starting at age 30, some last several more years before they see a dramatic drop off.  Kemp will be 30 soon and has 5 years left.  Guys also get injured, and not all injuries are created equal; a broken bone is a broken bone, a pulled hamstring is a pulled hamstring.....but when a player not only has a long list of injuries but they also have had multiple surgeries then things change.  Surgery isn't always 100% effective, and guys often come back no the same man they once were and when are playing at the top level with the best athletes in the world at you sport the difference between being 100% and being 90% can be the difference between being Matt Kemp in 2011 Matt Kemp and being 2013-2014 Matt Kemp.   Even if he remains relatively healthy, but the exponential effect of his age and injury history has the potential to make things very very very very ugly.

    I'm sorry Gerome, I don't want to keep attacking you trade proposal but that is just a dumb risk for ANY team to take.  As I said originally if Ben C. made that trade

    Mookie Betts, Brandon Workman for Matt Kemp (with the Sox eating all the salary) 

    then he should be fired and chased out of town. 

    [/QUOTE]


    if kemp werent such a stud and signed early on to this contract, he wouldve been hitting free agency at this time. he is younger than lester and pedroia - your injury talk is like something out of 1978 - dozens of players have come back from far more serious injuries and have done quite well...once again given his career stats, what would have been the going price for him this hot stove? you really think Drew deserved the QO at 15 million and Kemp doesnt? do you really believe Kemp would be signed today on the open market for 3/25? you must think he is some kind of invalid the way you describe him....he's not and his numbers right now make him better than 3/4 of the Sox team and the entire outfield...you really concerned about Workman? lol  betts has 25 homers since 2011...you want to pair him and JBJ together in the outfield for the next ten years? one of them must go because you cant have to undersized slap hitting outfielders in power positions - I like JBJ better  

    [/QUOTE]

    First of all, you display zero knowledge of prospects and player development.

    second of all before I opened up my own business and went back to school for a second degree, I graduated from the university of Hartford with a degree in health and human performance.  I worked with professional athletes for 10 years; mainly pro MMA fighters and boxers.  I was paid by top fighters in the New England area to help them rehabilitate from a whole multitude of injuries. 

    Now I don't have access to his medical records, but it doesn't require a whole lost of brain cells to Google his injury history.  If you think that he is magically going to be healthy, or the player that he once was because a handful of other guys did it (without his same injury history) and completely disregard his health and recent performance as any sort of risk then you are completely 100% clueless on the matter. 

    This is where you should give up the argument, because you obviously have ZERO ideal what you are talking about and the vast majority of this board agrees your trade proposal is garbage. 

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Kemp trade re-opens and Sox again interested

    Geo, I know. We had VMART and Beltre and dismissed them both at the same time...How sad is that? And yes, people, I'm well aware the Sox won the 2013 WS title.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Kemp trade re-opens and Sox again interested

    In response to dannycater's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
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    Reggie Smith and Tommy Harper went through ridiculous scrutiny by their own owner, but the fans did love them. I know I was a big fan of both.

    Tommy Harper is 100% the reason I am a Sox fan.

    When I lived in Milwaukee as a child, the Seattle Pilots moved to Milwaukee.  I lived 2 blocks from the old County Stadium. I used to pay a buck as watch Tommy play from the bleachers or ride my bike to the Veteran's Hospital (where I had a paper route) up on a cliff overlooking most of the field. He had a 30-30 season back then, and for a bad team, he was pretty much all there was to root for.

    My family moved to Portland Maine when I was going into the 6th grade, and shortly afterwards, Harper was traded to the Red Sox. It's the only team I switched to. I'm still a Packer and Bucks fan, but I've been a Sox fan since the trade.

    Hearing about how Harper was treated years after the fact upset me, but such is life. Nobody said it was always fair, but I think Tommy handled himself well. I've never had a favorite player like him since he retired.

     

    Sox4ever

    [/QUOTE]

    I remember you mentioning Harper a long time ago. Very under-rated player in his time and he was lightning on the base paths--73 steals one year. Harper gets traded for Bobby Heise--ugh. I got to see Reggie Smith at a salute of his career at Dodger Stadium. Smith once got hit in by Rick Reuschel during a game I saw at Chavez Ravine. He was really in bad shape already before the HBP but Reggie limped his way step by step to the mound and Reuschel just stood there in disbelief and Reggie swung a right and knocked him down. Craziest thing I've ever seen. Sox got Wise and Carbo in the Smith deal so kind of worked out in '75, but Smith was a heckuva a player. I was stunned that he led the AL twice in doubles as a Sox, but with such small numbers 37 and 33....DEAD BALL ERA. 1968 AND 71.

    [/QUOTE]


    Harper was not the fastest player by far, but he took the biggest lead I have ever seen, and he always got good jumps. He was the master at reading pitcher's moves to 1B or the plate.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Kemp trade re-opens and Sox again interested

    Harper, a forgotten player in the 60s/70s when there were so many great players still playing.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Kemp trade re-opens and Sox again interested

    Remember all the spray charts showed us that AGon was going to hit 50 HRs for the Sox?

    And, he was healthier than Kemp.

     

    Sox4ever

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Kemp trade re-opens and Sox again interested

    Kemp's salary is the bigger issue in the potential for trade. Dodgers second mortgaged the Sunset Parking Lot to sign him.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Kemp trade re-opens and Sox again interested

    AGON was living up to that potential too for one glorious half of a season. Guy put on a power show that half. But his drop in power after that as a Sox was legendary. His average I think went up a bit, but the power disappeared.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Kemp trade re-opens and Sox again interested

    Boggs picked batting average over power, according to Wade and according to the HR shows I saw him hit in pre-game batting practice. He could drive the ball at will, but knew it would affect his batting average to aim for power. Williams had both tools, but that's why he was Teddy Ballgame.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Kemp trade re-opens and Sox again interested

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to georom4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to georom4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    the fact is that we have a terrible outfield with no power - you are not going to improve it without signing a player for tens of millions of dollars - given the successful track record of the Sox bringing players in mid-season and thriving at Fenway, I would take a chance on Kemp. Hes a former MVP and right handed batter with pop. With the money freed from some of the other contracts we could easily afford him and then go after MaxS (i think Lester is a goner sadly) Even if we give away a Betts or Workman we still have Felix D, JBJ, Boegie, Owens and the rest of the cavalry to keep on improving. But what a lot of people seem to be signing onto here is Theo's five year plan and thats bs. I have no desire to tank games for three years so that the farm system is rated great.  You need to have both productive vets and young players in the mix. You play to win now - not in the future. Remember the bridge year? Yea that worked out well, right? Well this and 2012 are the bridge collapses year. 

    As always - 100% correct!

     [/QUOTE]

    Did it ever occur to you the reason why a lot of these vets come in here and succeed is because they were the right guys???? that doesn't mean that the green monster is some silver bullet that turns all into rejuvenated people.  Wally isn't going to magically change Matt Kemps Physiology.

    Maybe, the Sox have a good track record of bringing in people because they don't take chances on guys like Kemp????

    Guys age and get old, and guys get hurt too.  When you combined those two factors there is an even greater elevated risk of BOTH happening again.  Kemp is a serious risk, and I'm not saying it couldn't be worth it for the right price...my only discrepancy is the trade you proposed is completely out of line.  No GM would trade their best prospect, and one of their best pitching prospects for a guy who is entering 30, has a bad injury history and has seen a dramatic drop off in his production since his injuries.  NO GM would even consider that.

    The trade proposal is one thing, but then to even suggest we eat all of his money because we are taking a chance that this guy revives his career???  Which brings me back to my first sentence,  Guys age...many slow down starting at age 30, some last several more years before they see a dramatic drop off.  Kemp will be 30 soon and has 5 years left.  Guys also get injured, and not all injuries are created equal; a broken bone is a broken bone, a pulled hamstring is a pulled hamstring.....but when a player not only has a long list of injuries but they also have had multiple surgeries then things change.  Surgery isn't always 100% effective, and guys often come back no the same man they once were and when are playing at the top level with the best athletes in the world at you sport the difference between being 100% and being 90% can be the difference between being Matt Kemp in 2011 Matt Kemp and being 2013-2014 Matt Kemp.   Even if he remains relatively healthy, but the exponential effect of his age and injury history has the potential to make things very very very very ugly.

    I'm sorry Gerome, I don't want to keep attacking you trade proposal but that is just a dumb risk for ANY team to take.  As I said originally if Ben C. made that trade

    Mookie Betts, Brandon Workman for Matt Kemp (with the Sox eating all the salary) 

    then he should be fired and chased out of town. 

    [/QUOTE]


    if kemp werent such a stud and signed early on to this contract, he wouldve been hitting free agency at this time. he is younger than lester and pedroia - your injury talk is like something out of 1978 - dozens of players have come back from far more serious injuries and have done quite well...once again given his career stats, what would have been the going price for him this hot stove? you really think Drew deserved the QO at 15 million and Kemp doesnt? do you really believe Kemp would be signed today on the open market for 3/25? you must think he is some kind of invalid the way you describe him....he's not and his numbers right now make him better than 3/4 of the Sox team and the entire outfield...you really concerned about Workman? lol  betts has 25 homers since 2011...you want to pair him and JBJ together in the outfield for the next ten years? one of them must go because you cant have to undersized slap hitting outfielders in power positions - I like JBJ better  

    [/QUOTE]

    First of all, you display zero knowledge of prospects and player development.

    second of all before I opened up my own business and went back to school for a second degree, I graduated from the university of Hartford with a degree in health and human performance.  I worked with professional athletes for 10 years; mainly pro MMA fighters and boxers.  I was paid by top fighters in the New England area to help them rehabilitate from a whole multitude of injuries. 

    Now I don't have access to his medical records, but it doesn't require a whole lost of brain cells to Google his injury history.  If you think that he is magically going to be healthy, or the player that he once was because a handful of other guys did it (without his same injury history) and completely disregard his health and recent performance as any sort of risk then you are completely 100% clueless on the matter. 

    This is where you should give up the argument, because you obviously have ZERO ideal what you are talking about and the vast majority of this board agrees your trade proposal is garbage. 

    [/QUOTE]


    thanks for your credentials - it impresses the hell out of me here on BDC.. i have three degrees and a lifetime of coaching athletes (you know actually evaluating players and motivating them) but who gives a hoot....it would be nice if you actually addressed the points made:

    1) what would kemp's value be on today's free agency market

    2) do you agree with Theo's five year plan that he has implemented in CHI?

    3) do you think the Sox have had a history of successful mid season trades?

    4) do you think the sox have given up on successful players in the past for the same reasons you are stating about Kemp?

    5) do you think an outfield of Mookie and JBJ is a long term winning plan for the franchise, especially offensively?

    6) Just what are willing to spend and trade in order to improve this team? Or do you think this is an abberation season?

    thanks for your sharing your expertise 

     

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