Kemp trade re-opens and Sox again interested

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Kemp trade re-opens and Sox again interested

    In response to georom4's comment:

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    In response to dannycater's comment:

    Don't forget that Beltre had some weak seasons in Seattle and no one thought he would suddenly return to form in Boston, then really turn it up in Texas too. His upswing was outstanding and was against the age thing. 



    Beltre didn't have a laundry list of injuries, and there is a much much much much longer lists of players who don't do what Beltre do than people who follow his path.  If you are trying to make a point on what Kemp might become if he comes to Boston...using the exception and not the rule is a bad point. 



    and Vmart would stop hitting and get old real quick....sounds like the same old company line...you must love Theo's 5 year Plan...

    V-Mart could no longer catch and they had Ortiz as the DH.  I don't think the Sox felt he could no longer hit, they didn't have a position for him. Throw in the fact that they received Henry Owens & Matt Barnes as the compensation picks, two guys they obviously wouldn't trade for V-Mart right now, and it's pretty hard to whine about letting him go.  

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Kemp trade re-opens and Sox again interested

    In response to dannycater's comment:

    I have one degree, I know people with five degrees and I can tell you that doesn't mean jack when it comes to forming an opinion, drawing conclusions, and being intelligent. You can also get degrees now on-line, or buy them on-line. With that said, I agree Kemp is a risk, but I do think he has the potential to be a giant power hitter again.




    well said, and who is not a risk? Shane? napoli? lol  you think Kemp will have to have a medical clause put into his contract like Mike did or lackey? 

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Kemp trade re-opens and Sox again interested

    VMART had a lot to offer as a 1B, and Beltre as a 3b, but Theo wanted AGON at all costs. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Kemp trade re-opens and Sox again interested

    In response to georom4's comment:

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    In response to georom4's comment:

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    In response to georom4's comment:

    the fact is that we have a terrible outfield with no power - you are not going to improve it without signing a player for tens of millions of dollars - given the successful track record of the Sox bringing players in mid-season and thriving at Fenway, I would take a chance on Kemp. Hes a former MVP and right handed batter with pop. With the money freed from some of the other contracts we could easily afford him and then go after MaxS (i think Lester is a goner sadly) Even if we give away a Betts or Workman we still have Felix D, JBJ, Boegie, Owens and the rest of the cavalry to keep on improving. But what a lot of people seem to be signing onto here is Theo's five year plan and thats bs. I have no desire to tank games for three years so that the farm system is rated great.  You need to have both productive vets and young players in the mix. You play to win now - not in the future. Remember the bridge year? Yea that worked out well, right? Well this and 2012 are the bridge collapses year. 

    As always - 100% correct!

     



    Did it ever occur to you the reason why a lot of these vets come in here and succeed is because they were the right guys???? that doesn't mean that the green monster is some silver bullet that turns all into rejuvenated people.  Wally isn't going to magically change Matt Kemps Physiology.

    Maybe, the Sox have a good track record of bringing in people because they don't take chances on guys like Kemp????

    Guys age and get old, and guys get hurt too.  When you combined those two factors there is an even greater elevated risk of BOTH happening again.  Kemp is a serious risk, and I'm not saying it couldn't be worth it for the right price...my only discrepancy is the trade you proposed is completely out of line.  No GM would trade their best prospect, and one of their best pitching prospects for a guy who is entering 30, has a bad injury history and has seen a dramatic drop off in his production since his injuries.  NO GM would even consider that.

    The trade proposal is one thing, but then to even suggest we eat all of his money because we are taking a chance that this guy revives his career???  Which brings me back to my first sentence,  Guys age...many slow down starting at age 30, some last several more years before they see a dramatic drop off.  Kemp will be 30 soon and has 5 years left.  Guys also get injured, and not all injuries are created equal; a broken bone is a broken bone, a pulled hamstring is a pulled hamstring.....but when a player not only has a long list of injuries but they also have had multiple surgeries then things change.  Surgery isn't always 100% effective, and guys often come back no the same man they once were and when are playing at the top level with the best athletes in the world at you sport the difference between being 100% and being 90% can be the difference between being Matt Kemp in 2011 Matt Kemp and being 2013-2014 Matt Kemp.   Even if he remains relatively healthy, but the exponential effect of his age and injury history has the potential to make things very very very very ugly.

    I'm sorry Gerome, I don't want to keep attacking you trade proposal but that is just a dumb risk for ANY team to take.  As I said originally if Ben C. made that trade

    Mookie Betts, Brandon Workman for Matt Kemp (with the Sox eating all the salary) 

    then he should be fired and chased out of town. 




    if kemp werent such a stud and signed early on to this contract, he wouldve been hitting free agency at this time. he is younger than lester and pedroia - your injury talk is like something out of 1978 - dozens of players have come back from far more serious injuries and have done quite well...once again given his career stats, what would have been the going price for him this hot stove? you really think Drew deserved the QO at 15 million and Kemp doesnt? do you really believe Kemp would be signed today on the open market for 3/25? you must think he is some kind of invalid the way you describe him....he's not and his numbers right now make him better than 3/4 of the Sox team and the entire outfield...you really concerned about Workman? lol  betts has 25 homers since 2011...you want to pair him and JBJ together in the outfield for the next ten years? one of them must go because you cant have to undersized slap hitting outfielders in power positions - I like JBJ better  



    First of all, you display zero knowledge of prospects and player development.

    second of all before I opened up my own business and went back to school for a second degree, I graduated from the university of Hartford with a degree in health and human performance.  I worked with professional athletes for 10 years; mainly pro MMA fighters and boxers.  I was paid by top fighters in the New England area to help them rehabilitate from a whole multitude of injuries. 

    Now I don't have access to his medical records, but it doesn't require a whole lost of brain cells to Google his injury history.  If you think that he is magically going to be healthy, or the player that he once was because a handful of other guys did it (without his same injury history) and completely disregard his health and recent performance as any sort of risk then you are completely 100% clueless on the matter. 

    This is where you should give up the argument, because you obviously have ZERO ideal what you are talking about and the vast majority of this board agrees your trade proposal is garbage. 




    thanks for your credentials - it impresses the hell out of me here on BDC.. i have three degrees and a lifetime of coaching athletes (you know actually evaluating players and motivating them) but who gives a hoot....it would be nice if you actually addressed the points made:

    1) what would kemp's value be on today's free agency market

    2) do you agree with Theo's five year plan that he has implemented in CHI?

    3) do you think the Sox have had a history of successful mid season trades?

    4) do you think the sox have given up on successful players in the past for the same reasons you are stating about Kemp?

    5) do you think an outfield of Mookie and JBJ is a long term winning plan for the franchise, especially offensively?

    6) Just what are willing to spend and trade in order to improve this team? Or do you think this is an abberation season?

    thanks for your sharing your expertise 



    almost all those questions have absolutely NOTHING to do with the topic at hand, I'm done going off with tangents on you.  Every time you get beat in an argument you move the goal posts and try to talk about something else and you disappear from the thread.  I don't care if you coached little league and peewee, you obviously don't factor health and injury history into a players value at all...and that was the debate here.  This is a thread about KEMP, not a thread about GEO asking Hugh a bunch of unrelated questions.

    Seriously it take a lot for me to go after someone, because I almost never do and I almost hate myself for typing this but you have got to be one of the most unacknowledged posters in here.  And it take a narcissist to declare themselves 100% correct.  How can someone SO wrong think they are right SO much?!?!?!?

    I'm am done with you, conversing with people who are clueless I have determined adds little value to my life.  I have literally made a bad transaction by engaging in this discussion but nowhere near as bad as trading our best prospect for a 30 year old injury risk performing below his career norms for 2 years now who is grossly overpaid for the next half decade.

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Kemp trade re-opens and Sox again interested

    In response to georom4's comment:

    In response to dannycater's comment:

    I have one degree, I know people with five degrees and I can tell you that doesn't mean jack when it comes to forming an opinion, drawing conclusions, and being intelligent. You can also get degrees now on-line, or buy them on-line. With that said, I agree Kemp is a risk, but I do think he has the potential to be a giant power hitter again.




    well said, and who is not a risk? Shane? napoli? lol  you think Kemp will have to have a medical clause put into his contract like Mike did or lackey? 


    Neither Shane nor Napoli cost $100+MM and cost us blue chip prospect.  Your trade proposal is stupid at best.  The fact that you keep coming back on and trying to justify it shows your baseball acumen...

    other names i have posted under:  none

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Kemp trade re-opens and Sox again interested

    In response to slasher9's comment:

    In response to georom4's comment:

    In response to dannycater's comment:

    I have one degree, I know people with five degrees and I can tell you that doesn't mean jack when it comes to forming an opinion, drawing conclusions, and being intelligent. You can also get degrees now on-line, or buy them on-line. With that said, I agree Kemp is a risk, but I do think he has the potential to be a giant power hitter again.




    well said, and who is not a risk? Shane? napoli? lol  you think Kemp will have to have a medical clause put into his contract like Mike did or lackey? 


    Neither Shane nor Napoli cost $100+MM and cost us blue chip prospect.  Your trade proposal is stupid at best.  The fact that you keep coming back on and trying to justify it shows your baseball acumen...

    other names i have posted under:  none

     



    Slasher you are one of the posters in here who make the combined IQ of this forum go back up. 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Kemp trade re-opens and Sox again interested

    In response to georom4's comment:

    In response to dannycater's comment:

    I have one degree, I know people with five degrees and I can tell you that doesn't mean jack when it comes to forming an opinion, drawing conclusions, and being intelligent. You can also get degrees now on-line, or buy them on-line. With that said, I agree Kemp is a risk, but I do think he has the potential to be a giant power hitter again.




    well said, and who is not a risk? Shane? napoli? lol  you think Kemp will have to have a medical clause put into his contract like Mike did or lackey? 



    Wait....what?

    you think he is going to renogatiate his existing guaranteed 100 million contract to give the sox an out clause if he gets injured???

    man...that is some dumb baseball knowledge right there.

    smh x 1 billion

     

    other names i have posted under:  none

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Kemp trade re-opens and Sox again interested

    In response to georom4's comment:

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    In response to georom4's comment:

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    In response to georom4's comment:

    the fact is that we have a terrible outfield with no power - you are not going to improve it without signing a player for tens of millions of dollars - given the successful track record of the Sox bringing players in mid-season and thriving at Fenway, I would take a chance on Kemp. Hes a former MVP and right handed batter with pop. With the money freed from some of the other contracts we could easily afford him and then go after MaxS (i think Lester is a goner sadly) Even if we give away a Betts or Workman we still have Felix D, JBJ, Boegie, Owens and the rest of the cavalry to keep on improving. But what a lot of people seem to be signing onto here is Theo's five year plan and thats bs. I have no desire to tank games for three years so that the farm system is rated great.  You need to have both productive vets and young players in the mix. You play to win now - not in the future. Remember the bridge year? Yea that worked out well, right? Well this and 2012 are the bridge collapses year. 

    As always - 100% correct!

     



    Did it ever occur to you the reason why a lot of these vets come in here and succeed is because they were the right guys???? that doesn't mean that the green monster is some silver bullet that turns all into rejuvenated people.  Wally isn't going to magically change Matt Kemps Physiology.

    Maybe, the Sox have a good track record of bringing in people because they don't take chances on guys like Kemp????

    Guys age and get old, and guys get hurt too.  When you combined those two factors there is an even greater elevated risk of BOTH happening again.  Kemp is a serious risk, and I'm not saying it couldn't be worth it for the right price...my only discrepancy is the trade you proposed is completely out of line.  No GM would trade their best prospect, and one of their best pitching prospects for a guy who is entering 30, has a bad injury history and has seen a dramatic drop off in his production since his injuries.  NO GM would even consider that.

    The trade proposal is one thing, but then to even suggest we eat all of his money because we are taking a chance that this guy revives his career???  Which brings me back to my first sentence,  Guys age...many slow down starting at age 30, some last several more years before they see a dramatic drop off.  Kemp will be 30 soon and has 5 years left.  Guys also get injured, and not all injuries are created equal; a broken bone is a broken bone, a pulled hamstring is a pulled hamstring.....but when a player not only has a long list of injuries but they also have had multiple surgeries then things change.  Surgery isn't always 100% effective, and guys often come back no the same man they once were and when are playing at the top level with the best athletes in the world at you sport the difference between being 100% and being 90% can be the difference between being Matt Kemp in 2011 Matt Kemp and being 2013-2014 Matt Kemp.   Even if he remains relatively healthy, but the exponential effect of his age and injury history has the potential to make things very very very very ugly.

    I'm sorry Gerome, I don't want to keep attacking you trade proposal but that is just a dumb risk for ANY team to take.  As I said originally if Ben C. made that trade

    Mookie Betts, Brandon Workman for Matt Kemp (with the Sox eating all the salary) 

    then he should be fired and chased out of town. 




    if kemp werent such a stud and signed early on to this contract, he wouldve been hitting free agency at this time. he is younger than lester and pedroia - your injury talk is like something out of 1978 - dozens of players have come back from far more serious injuries and have done quite well...once again given his career stats, what would have been the going price for him this hot stove? you really think Drew deserved the QO at 15 million and Kemp doesnt? do you really believe Kemp would be signed today on the open market for 3/25? you must think he is some kind of invalid the way you describe him....he's not and his numbers right now make him better than 3/4 of the Sox team and the entire outfield...you really concerned about Workman? lol  betts has 25 homers since 2011...you want to pair him and JBJ together in the outfield for the next ten years? one of them must go because you cant have to undersized slap hitting outfielders in power positions - I like JBJ better  



    First of all, you display zero knowledge of prospects and player development.

    second of all before I opened up my own business and went back to school for a second degree, I graduated from the university of Hartford with a degree in health and human performance.  I worked with professional athletes for 10 years; mainly pro MMA fighters and boxers.  I was paid by top fighters in the New England area to help them rehabilitate from a whole multitude of injuries. 

    Now I don't have access to his medical records, but it doesn't require a whole lost of brain cells to Google his injury history.  If you think that he is magically going to be healthy, or the player that he once was because a handful of other guys did it (without his same injury history) and completely disregard his health and recent performance as any sort of risk then you are completely 100% clueless on the matter. 

    This is where you should give up the argument, because you obviously have ZERO ideal what you are talking about and the vast majority of this board agrees your trade proposal is garbage. 




    thanks for your credentials - it impresses the hell out of me here on BDC.. i have three degrees and a lifetime of coaching athletes (you know actually evaluating players and motivating them) but who gives a hoot....it would be nice if you actually addressed the points made:

    1) what would kemp's value be on today's free agency market

    2) do you agree with Theo's five year plan that he has implemented in CHI?

    3) do you think the Sox have had a history of successful mid season trades?

    4) do you think the sox have given up on successful players in the past for the same reasons you are stating about Kemp?

    5) do you think an outfield of Mookie and JBJ is a long term winning plan for the franchise, especially offensively?

    6) Just what are willing to spend and trade in order to improve this team? Or do you think this is an abberation season?

    thanks for your sharing your expertise 



    The Cubs now have a ton of young talent and plenty of resources to be competitive as soon as next year.  That organization was a mess when Theo arrived.  Whether you like Theo or not is irrelevant, but the fact that he was voted the top baseball executive among his peers, guys who actually work in baseball, says that there are some people with a lot more knowledge than you that think he is doing something right.  

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Kemp trade re-opens and Sox again interested

    In response to slasher9's comment:

    In response to georom4's comment:

    In response to dannycater's comment:

    I have one degree, I know people with five degrees and I can tell you that doesn't mean jack when it comes to forming an opinion, drawing conclusions, and being intelligent. You can also get degrees now on-line, or buy them on-line. With that said, I agree Kemp is a risk, but I do think he has the potential to be a giant power hitter again.




    well said, and who is not a risk? Shane? napoli? lol  you think Kemp will have to have a medical clause put into his contract like Mike did or lackey? 



    Wait....what?

    you think he is going to renogatiate his existing guaranteed 100 million contract to give the sox an out clause if he gets injured???

    man...that is some dumb baseball knowledge right there.

    smh x 1 billion

     

    other names i have posted under:  none

     




    who said that? the point was that we have already signed players who we knew were injury risks....

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Kemp trade re-opens and Sox again interested

    In response to jasko2248's comment:

    In response to georom4's comment:

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    In response to georom4's comment:

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    In response to georom4's comment:

    the fact is that we have a terrible outfield with no power - you are not going to improve it without signing a player for tens of millions of dollars - given the successful track record of the Sox bringing players in mid-season and thriving at Fenway, I would take a chance on Kemp. Hes a former MVP and right handed batter with pop. With the money freed from some of the other contracts we could easily afford him and then go after MaxS (i think Lester is a goner sadly) Even if we give away a Betts or Workman we still have Felix D, JBJ, Boegie, Owens and the rest of the cavalry to keep on improving. But what a lot of people seem to be signing onto here is Theo's five year plan and thats bs. I have no desire to tank games for three years so that the farm system is rated great.  You need to have both productive vets and young players in the mix. You play to win now - not in the future. Remember the bridge year? Yea that worked out well, right? Well this and 2012 are the bridge collapses year. 

    As always - 100% correct!

     



    Did it ever occur to you the reason why a lot of these vets come in here and succeed is because they were the right guys???? that doesn't mean that the green monster is some silver bullet that turns all into rejuvenated people.  Wally isn't going to magically change Matt Kemps Physiology.

    Maybe, the Sox have a good track record of bringing in people because they don't take chances on guys like Kemp????

    Guys age and get old, and guys get hurt too.  When you combined those two factors there is an even greater elevated risk of BOTH happening again.  Kemp is a serious risk, and I'm not saying it couldn't be worth it for the right price...my only discrepancy is the trade you proposed is completely out of line.  No GM would trade their best prospect, and one of their best pitching prospects for a guy who is entering 30, has a bad injury history and has seen a dramatic drop off in his production since his injuries.  NO GM would even consider that.

    The trade proposal is one thing, but then to even suggest we eat all of his money because we are taking a chance that this guy revives his career???  Which brings me back to my first sentence,  Guys age...many slow down starting at age 30, some last several more years before they see a dramatic drop off.  Kemp will be 30 soon and has 5 years left.  Guys also get injured, and not all injuries are created equal; a broken bone is a broken bone, a pulled hamstring is a pulled hamstring.....but when a player not only has a long list of injuries but they also have had multiple surgeries then things change.  Surgery isn't always 100% effective, and guys often come back no the same man they once were and when are playing at the top level with the best athletes in the world at you sport the difference between being 100% and being 90% can be the difference between being Matt Kemp in 2011 Matt Kemp and being 2013-2014 Matt Kemp.   Even if he remains relatively healthy, but the exponential effect of his age and injury history has the potential to make things very very very very ugly.

    I'm sorry Gerome, I don't want to keep attacking you trade proposal but that is just a dumb risk for ANY team to take.  As I said originally if Ben C. made that trade

    Mookie Betts, Brandon Workman for Matt Kemp (with the Sox eating all the salary) 

    then he should be fired and chased out of town. 




    if kemp werent such a stud and signed early on to this contract, he wouldve been hitting free agency at this time. he is younger than lester and pedroia - your injury talk is like something out of 1978 - dozens of players have come back from far more serious injuries and have done quite well...once again given his career stats, what would have been the going price for him this hot stove? you really think Drew deserved the QO at 15 million and Kemp doesnt? do you really believe Kemp would be signed today on the open market for 3/25? you must think he is some kind of invalid the way you describe him....he's not and his numbers right now make him better than 3/4 of the Sox team and the entire outfield...you really concerned about Workman? lol  betts has 25 homers since 2011...you want to pair him and JBJ together in the outfield for the next ten years? one of them must go because you cant have to undersized slap hitting outfielders in power positions - I like JBJ better  



    First of all, you display zero knowledge of prospects and player development.

    second of all before I opened up my own business and went back to school for a second degree, I graduated from the university of Hartford with a degree in health and human performance.  I worked with professional athletes for 10 years; mainly pro MMA fighters and boxers.  I was paid by top fighters in the New England area to help them rehabilitate from a whole multitude of injuries. 

    Now I don't have access to his medical records, but it doesn't require a whole lost of brain cells to Google his injury history.  If you think that he is magically going to be healthy, or the player that he once was because a handful of other guys did it (without his same injury history) and completely disregard his health and recent performance as any sort of risk then you are completely 100% clueless on the matter. 

    This is where you should give up the argument, because you obviously have ZERO ideal what you are talking about and the vast majority of this board agrees your trade proposal is garbage. 




    thanks for your credentials - it impresses the hell out of me here on BDC.. i have three degrees and a lifetime of coaching athletes (you know actually evaluating players and motivating them) but who gives a hoot....it would be nice if you actually addressed the points made:

    1) what would kemp's value be on today's free agency market

    2) do you agree with Theo's five year plan that he has implemented in CHI?

    3) do you think the Sox have had a history of successful mid season trades?

    4) do you think the sox have given up on successful players in the past for the same reasons you are stating about Kemp?

    5) do you think an outfield of Mookie and JBJ is a long term winning plan for the franchise, especially offensively?

    6) Just what are willing to spend and trade in order to improve this team? Or do you think this is an abberation season?

    thanks for your sharing your expertise 



    The Cubs now have a ton of young talent and plenty of resources to be competitive as soon as next year.  That organization was a mess when Theo arrived.  Whether you like Theo or not is irrelevant, but the fact that he was voted the top baseball executive among his peers, guys who actually work in baseball, says that there are some people with a lot more knowledge than you that think he is doing something right.  




    actually Theo was hired to turn the Cubs into winners three years ago - and he's failed...they dont give any awards for that Im sure

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Kemp trade re-opens and Sox again interested

    1.       If he hit free agency right now, probably not much.  In fact, he might only try for a one year value-rebuilding deal.  Over the past 2 seasons, he has not even  outperformed Corey Hart (and that is with Hart missing an entire season).  Did Hart get a 5 year deal in excess of $100mill?  Do you honestly think any player coming off 2 awful down seasons like Kemp would get a deal like that? 

     

    2.       You’re kidding, right?  He took over an awful franchise and has all but rehabilitated a team that had no one in the majors or minors (except Javier Baez), and their future absolutely looks bright.  Granted, the Cubs can get away with more losing seasons, since they haven’t done much since Teddy Roosevelt was President and the country had 46 states.

     

    3.       Mixed success, like most teams.  While Bay, for example, was good, how was Eric Gagne?  Did he rejuvenate his career in Boston?  And did they surrender their best prospect (plus!!) to get him?

     

    4.       Absolutely, and your oft-cited Jason Bay is a prime example.  They reneged and renogtiated their offer for health concerns and it turned out to be the right choice, didn’t it?  Since he left Boston, what exactly has Bay done?

     

    5.       Mookie is probably trade bait, due to a lack of actual position in Boston.  Just hopefully they deal him for someone without as lengthy of a health history and recent decline AND insane contract.  I could see him packaged with others for, say, Carlos Gonzalez or Stanton, if either becomes available.  Or, possibly a simpler deal for someone like Marcell Ozuna in a deal that actually makes sense for both teams.  Since the Sox do appear to be sellers right now, it is unlikely they acquire a power bat this month.  This doesn’t mean they won’t stockpile more prospects to make a deal this winter, when more players will be available for a variety of reasons (many of which relate to arbitration and that more teams won’t be keeping their starting lineup intact for a playoff run).  Remember, and this is something that needs to be pointed out to you every off-season – there are no bonus points awarded for assembling a team quickly.  It’s actually perfectly legal to complete the 2015 roster in – believe it or not – 2015.

     

    6.       Well, they probably have not arrived at a “Kemp or NOTHING” point in the plan, and decided to surrender their best prospect and take on the entire deal, just because Adrian Beltre was able to re-discover himself in Fenway. 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Kemp trade re-opens and Sox again interested

    In response to dannycater's comment:

    VMART had a lot to offer as a 1B, and Beltre as a 3b, but Theo wanted AGON at all costs. 



    They also had a pretty good player under contract named Kevin Youkillis, who gave them the flexibility to play both positions. Also, EVERYONE was on board with Agon.  No one figured he would hate it here as much as he did.  I loved Beltre as much as anyone, but you had to be leery of giving a guy a 5 year deal, who's best years always seemed to coincide with his contract being up, especially when they knew they would have Agon & Youk. 

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: Kemp trade re-opens and Sox again interested

    "actually Theo was hired to turn the Cubs into winners three years ago - and he's failed...they dont give any awards for that Im sure."

    He was supposed to turn that franchise around in 6 months?

    You may want to consider taking a break from posting now.

    That hole you're in just keeps getting deeper.

     

    I love the smell of asphalt in the morning.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Kemp trade re-opens and Sox again interested

    In response to georom4's comment:

    In response to jasko2248's comment:

    In response to georom4's comment:

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    In response to georom4's comment:

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    In response to georom4's comment:

    the fact is that we have a terrible outfield with no power - you are not going to improve it without signing a player for tens of millions of dollars - given the successful track record of the Sox bringing players in mid-season and thriving at Fenway, I would take a chance on Kemp. Hes a former MVP and right handed batter with pop. With the money freed from some of the other contracts we could easily afford him and then go after MaxS (i think Lester is a goner sadly) Even if we give away a Betts or Workman we still have Felix D, JBJ, Boegie, Owens and the rest of the cavalry to keep on improving. But what a lot of people seem to be signing onto here is Theo's five year plan and thats bs. I have no desire to tank games for three years so that the farm system is rated great.  You need to have both productive vets and young players in the mix. You play to win now - not in the future. Remember the bridge year? Yea that worked out well, right? Well this and 2012 are the bridge collapses year. 

    As always - 100% correct!

     



    Did it ever occur to you the reason why a lot of these vets come in here and succeed is because they were the right guys???? that doesn't mean that the green monster is some silver bullet that turns all into rejuvenated people.  Wally isn't going to magically change Matt Kemps Physiology.

    Maybe, the Sox have a good track record of bringing in people because they don't take chances on guys like Kemp????

    Guys age and get old, and guys get hurt too.  When you combined those two factors there is an even greater elevated risk of BOTH happening again.  Kemp is a serious risk, and I'm not saying it couldn't be worth it for the right price...my only discrepancy is the trade you proposed is completely out of line.  No GM would trade their best prospect, and one of their best pitching prospects for a guy who is entering 30, has a bad injury history and has seen a dramatic drop off in his production since his injuries.  NO GM would even consider that.

    The trade proposal is one thing, but then to even suggest we eat all of his money because we are taking a chance that this guy revives his career???  Which brings me back to my first sentence,  Guys age...many slow down starting at age 30, some last several more years before they see a dramatic drop off.  Kemp will be 30 soon and has 5 years left.  Guys also get injured, and not all injuries are created equal; a broken bone is a broken bone, a pulled hamstring is a pulled hamstring.....but when a player not only has a long list of injuries but they also have had multiple surgeries then things change.  Surgery isn't always 100% effective, and guys often come back no the same man they once were and when are playing at the top level with the best athletes in the world at you sport the difference between being 100% and being 90% can be the difference between being Matt Kemp in 2011 Matt Kemp and being 2013-2014 Matt Kemp.   Even if he remains relatively healthy, but the exponential effect of his age and injury history has the potential to make things very very very very ugly.

    I'm sorry Gerome, I don't want to keep attacking you trade proposal but that is just a dumb risk for ANY team to take.  As I said originally if Ben C. made that trade

    Mookie Betts, Brandon Workman for Matt Kemp (with the Sox eating all the salary) 

    then he should be fired and chased out of town. 




    if kemp werent such a stud and signed early on to this contract, he wouldve been hitting free agency at this time. he is younger than lester and pedroia - your injury talk is like something out of 1978 - dozens of players have come back from far more serious injuries and have done quite well...once again given his career stats, what would have been the going price for him this hot stove? you really think Drew deserved the QO at 15 million and Kemp doesnt? do you really believe Kemp would be signed today on the open market for 3/25? you must think he is some kind of invalid the way you describe him....he's not and his numbers right now make him better than 3/4 of the Sox team and the entire outfield...you really concerned about Workman? lol  betts has 25 homers since 2011...you want to pair him and JBJ together in the outfield for the next ten years? one of them must go because you cant have to undersized slap hitting outfielders in power positions - I like JBJ better  



    First of all, you display zero knowledge of prospects and player development.

    second of all before I opened up my own business and went back to school for a second degree, I graduated from the university of Hartford with a degree in health and human performance.  I worked with professional athletes for 10 years; mainly pro MMA fighters and boxers.  I was paid by top fighters in the New England area to help them rehabilitate from a whole multitude of injuries. 

    Now I don't have access to his medical records, but it doesn't require a whole lost of brain cells to Google his injury history.  If you think that he is magically going to be healthy, or the player that he once was because a handful of other guys did it (without his same injury history) and completely disregard his health and recent performance as any sort of risk then you are completely 100% clueless on the matter. 

    This is where you should give up the argument, because you obviously have ZERO ideal what you are talking about and the vast majority of this board agrees your trade proposal is garbage. 




    thanks for your credentials - it impresses the hell out of me here on BDC.. i have three degrees and a lifetime of coaching athletes (you know actually evaluating players and motivating them) but who gives a hoot....it would be nice if you actually addressed the points made:

    1) what would kemp's value be on today's free agency market

    2) do you agree with Theo's five year plan that he has implemented in CHI?

    3) do you think the Sox have had a history of successful mid season trades?

    4) do you think the sox have given up on successful players in the past for the same reasons you are stating about Kemp?

    5) do you think an outfield of Mookie and JBJ is a long term winning plan for the franchise, especially offensively?

    6) Just what are willing to spend and trade in order to improve this team? Or do you think this is an abberation season?

    thanks for your sharing your expertise 



    The Cubs now have a ton of young talent and plenty of resources to be competitive as soon as next year.  That organization was a mess when Theo arrived.  Whether you like Theo or not is irrelevant, but the fact that he was voted the top baseball executive among his peers, guys who actually work in baseball, says that there are some people with a lot more knowledge than you that think he is doing something right.  




    actually Theo was hired to turn the Cubs into winners three years ago - and he's failed...they dont give any awards for that Im sure



    When you live in a world of massive oversimplifications, I guess that sums it up. 

    Epstein inherited the helm of a good team in Boston.  In Chicago, he not only got a bad MLB team with a lot of horrible contracts for non-productive players, he also had almost no farm system to speak of.  The turnaround on the North Side has actually been outstanding.  And while he has made mistakes – signing Edwin Jackson, for example – to call him a failure because he has not won a title in a situation where NO ONE could have possibly won one is beyond narrow-minded.   Fans and media praise Billy Beane as a genius GM.  How many titles has he won in Oakland in the past 15 years?  (Hint: None.)  Does that mean he Is a bad GM, too?

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Kemp trade re-opens and Sox again interested

    In response to georom4's comment:

    In response to jasko2248's comment:

    In response to georom4's comment:

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    In response to georom4's comment:

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    In response to georom4's comment:

    the fact is that we have a terrible outfield with no power - you are not going to improve it without signing a player for tens of millions of dollars - given the successful track record of the Sox bringing players in mid-season and thriving at Fenway, I would take a chance on Kemp. Hes a former MVP and right handed batter with pop. With the money freed from some of the other contracts we could easily afford him and then go after MaxS (i think Lester is a goner sadly) Even if we give away a Betts or Workman we still have Felix D, JBJ, Boegie, Owens and the rest of the cavalry to keep on improving. But what a lot of people seem to be signing onto here is Theo's five year plan and thats bs. I have no desire to tank games for three years so that the farm system is rated great.  You need to have both productive vets and young players in the mix. You play to win now - not in the future. Remember the bridge year? Yea that worked out well, right? Well this and 2012 are the bridge collapses year. 

    As always - 100% correct!

     



    Did it ever occur to you the reason why a lot of these vets come in here and succeed is because they were the right guys???? that doesn't mean that the green monster is some silver bullet that turns all into rejuvenated people.  Wally isn't going to magically change Matt Kemps Physiology.

    Maybe, the Sox have a good track record of bringing in people because they don't take chances on guys like Kemp????

    Guys age and get old, and guys get hurt too.  When you combined those two factors there is an even greater elevated risk of BOTH happening again.  Kemp is a serious risk, and I'm not saying it couldn't be worth it for the right price...my only discrepancy is the trade you proposed is completely out of line.  No GM would trade their best prospect, and one of their best pitching prospects for a guy who is entering 30, has a bad injury history and has seen a dramatic drop off in his production since his injuries.  NO GM would even consider that.

    The trade proposal is one thing, but then to even suggest we eat all of his money because we are taking a chance that this guy revives his career???  Which brings me back to my first sentence,  Guys age...many slow down starting at age 30, some last several more years before they see a dramatic drop off.  Kemp will be 30 soon and has 5 years left.  Guys also get injured, and not all injuries are created equal; a broken bone is a broken bone, a pulled hamstring is a pulled hamstring.....but when a player not only has a long list of injuries but they also have had multiple surgeries then things change.  Surgery isn't always 100% effective, and guys often come back no the same man they once were and when are playing at the top level with the best athletes in the world at you sport the difference between being 100% and being 90% can be the difference between being Matt Kemp in 2011 Matt Kemp and being 2013-2014 Matt Kemp.   Even if he remains relatively healthy, but the exponential effect of his age and injury history has the potential to make things very very very very ugly.

    I'm sorry Gerome, I don't want to keep attacking you trade proposal but that is just a dumb risk for ANY team to take.  As I said originally if Ben C. made that trade

    Mookie Betts, Brandon Workman for Matt Kemp (with the Sox eating all the salary) 

    then he should be fired and chased out of town. 




    if kemp werent such a stud and signed early on to this contract, he wouldve been hitting free agency at this time. he is younger than lester and pedroia - your injury talk is like something out of 1978 - dozens of players have come back from far more serious injuries and have done quite well...once again given his career stats, what would have been the going price for him this hot stove? you really think Drew deserved the QO at 15 million and Kemp doesnt? do you really believe Kemp would be signed today on the open market for 3/25? you must think he is some kind of invalid the way you describe him....he's not and his numbers right now make him better than 3/4 of the Sox team and the entire outfield...you really concerned about Workman? lol  betts has 25 homers since 2011...you want to pair him and JBJ together in the outfield for the next ten years? one of them must go because you cant have to undersized slap hitting outfielders in power positions - I like JBJ better  



    First of all, you display zero knowledge of prospects and player development.

    second of all before I opened up my own business and went back to school for a second degree, I graduated from the university of Hartford with a degree in health and human performance.  I worked with professional athletes for 10 years; mainly pro MMA fighters and boxers.  I was paid by top fighters in the New England area to help them rehabilitate from a whole multitude of injuries. 

    Now I don't have access to his medical records, but it doesn't require a whole lost of brain cells to Google his injury history.  If you think that he is magically going to be healthy, or the player that he once was because a handful of other guys did it (without his same injury history) and completely disregard his health and recent performance as any sort of risk then you are completely 100% clueless on the matter. 

    This is where you should give up the argument, because you obviously have ZERO ideal what you are talking about and the vast majority of this board agrees your trade proposal is garbage. 




    thanks for your credentials - it impresses the hell out of me here on BDC.. i have three degrees and a lifetime of coaching athletes (you know actually evaluating players and motivating them) but who gives a hoot....it would be nice if you actually addressed the points made:

    1) what would kemp's value be on today's free agency market

    2) do you agree with Theo's five year plan that he has implemented in CHI?

    3) do you think the Sox have had a history of successful mid season trades?

    4) do you think the sox have given up on successful players in the past for the same reasons you are stating about Kemp?

    5) do you think an outfield of Mookie and JBJ is a long term winning plan for the franchise, especially offensively?

    6) Just what are willing to spend and trade in order to improve this team? Or do you think this is an abberation season?

    thanks for your sharing your expertise 



    The Cubs now have a ton of young talent and plenty of resources to be competitive as soon as next year.  That organization was a mess when Theo arrived.  Whether you like Theo or not is irrelevant, but the fact that he was voted the top baseball executive among his peers, guys who actually work in baseball, says that there are some people with a lot more knowledge than you that think he is doing something right.  




    actually Theo was hired to turn the Cubs into winners three years ago - and he's failed...they dont give any awards for that Im sure



    "Actually," you are completely wrong.  He was hired to rebuild a terrible organization and it was immediately made clear that it would take AT LEAST 3 to 4 years.  Just because you don't like Epstein, it doesn't mean you should comment on something you clearly know nothing about.  I don't eat turnips, can't stand them, but I don't walk around telling people that they suck & have no nutritional value, because I'm sure they do.  

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Kemp trade re-opens and Sox again interested

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    "actually Theo was hired to turn the Cubs into winners three years ago - and he's failed...they dont give any awards for that Im sure."

    He was supposed to turn that franchise around in 6 months?

    You may want to consider taking a break from posting now.

    That hole you're in just keeps getting deeper.

     

    ---------------------------------------------------

    this is from a little Chicago newspaper 2 weeks ago...enjoy reading it...

    The Cubs are set to play the Boston Red Sox at Fenway Park on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday.

    You know what that means: The Cubs will be camping out in the funny-speaking city that forged their president of baseball operations, Theo Epstein.

    Now in his third season with the Cubs, Epstein was raised in Brookline, Massachusetts, played baseball for the Brookline High School Warriors and always wanted to work for the Red Sox. He got that chance, becoming, as everyone has heard countless times, the youngest general manager in baseball history (28 years, 11 months), then the youngest GM (30) to win a World Series title, in 2004.

    Of course, he also was the youngest GM to win two World Series crowns when the previously drought-stricken Red Sox won again in 2007.

    He was the wonder boy, the Mark Zuckerberg of horsehide, named baseball ‘‘Executive of the Decade’’ by The Sporting News in 2009. Only a nuclear fueling rod could have been hotter.

    Then he came to Chicago.

    The skid marks stretch to the horizon.

    I won’t bore you with Theo’s stats of deceleration, but the Cubs have lost 82 more games than they’ve won since he took charge after the 2011 season. During his tenure, they have finished last, last and (likely) last again in the National League Central, a quaint division made up of small-market teams in much smaller cities.

    Consider, if you will, that neither St. Louis, Cincinnati nor Pittsburgh has an NBA team. And Milwaukee has no NFL team, unless you count Green Bay. Just consider those facts, is all.

    At any rate, Epstein is here on a rich five-year deal, and he has not lost heart, and he thinks — as he says endlessly — the Cubs ‘‘are headed in the right direction.’’

    But are they? Only a mole could call their trajectory upward.

    They have played reasonably well in their last 24 games — going 14-10 — but that doesn’t do much when you started off 20-36.

    Jake Arrieta and Jason Hammel are a combined 11-6 with a 2.05 and 2.98 ERA, respectively. That’s nice. That’s big-time. But we don’t know who will stay with the team and who’s trade bait.

    If there’s a symbol of the Cubs’ uncertainty and tough luck, it’s pitcher Jeff Samardzija, who leads the team in innings, has a 2.83 ERA and is only 2-7. The guy could be a rock in the Cubs’ foundation, but it seems he’s almost certainly headed off to another team for more money.

    Epstein has minor-leaguers who look really good — Kris Bryant and Javy Baez — but all we can say to that is, remember Felix Pie? Anybody in Class AAA throw a 90  mph changeup, a 94 mph slider? Uh, no.

    So there’s risk, and there are money issues for Theo. Call it the Wrigley Field un-tappable piggy bank.

    Whatever. A boy genius, now 40, can’t like being called a fool. So we wonder about Epstein, about what he’s thinking career-wise, about whether he plans to stick around through his contract with its two more years, and beyond. Or whether he has come to the conclusion that previously struck Dallas Green, Andy MacPhail, Dusty Baker, Lou Piniella, et al.: The Cubs are somehow incorrigible. Call it cursed, if you want. Or dumb as a grub farm.

    The other day, Epstein talked about the possibility of losing his handpicked senior vice president for scouting and player development, Jason McLeod, also a former Boston guy. It seems a major-league team or two have shown interest in him as a GM.

    “It’d be a big loss, obviously, because he’s really talented,” Epstein said. “His heart is in this the way mine is and the way all of our hearts are in it.’’

    Well, yes. But mostly your paychecks and reputations are in it.

    But then Epstein added something almost fatalistic, semi-Jerry Krause-ian:

    ‘‘But this organization is bigger than any one person. I’m not going anywhere, but if I stepped away tomorrow, we’d be fine.’’

    There was just the hint of former Bulls GM Krause’s notorious, “Players and coaches alone don’t win championships; organizations win championships,’’ in Theo’s statement. No matter that Krause was right. And maybe Theo is, too. In a sense.

    But do you really need to say it?

    Michael Jordan didn’t think so.

    What does it mean, after all? Theo himself can be replaced and the Cubs will just keep galloping — excuse me, staggering — along?

    No, Epstein has to be the guy. He has to see this through. He dealt himself in. He now knows Chicago sure as hell ain’t Boston. He can’t be replaced. And he better not leave.

    Not after blowing up the bridge and telling us the new — unseen — one will be absolutely fabulous.

     

    http://www.suntimes.com/sports/telander/28384051-452/telander-hey-theo-epstein-cubs-fans-are-still-waiting.html#.U8lLWvldVF4

     
  17. This post has been removed.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Kemp trade re-opens and Sox again interested

    Look at it this way, georom.

     

    You have now started insisting if Kemp were a free agent, he would command the kind of deal he has left.

     

    Had he been a free agent last off-season and the Sox signed him for 6 years $120mill, would yo be content he was earning his money to date and the next 5+ years looked promising?

     

    Back when Kemp was in his best seasons, Curtis Granderson was among the best in the AL.  In 2011, Kemp came in second in MVP voting (his highest finish as he has never won the award, despite your claims), and Granderson came in fourth in in AL MVP voting.   Granderson had an injury issue in 2013, however it was more of a freak accident (HBP) than a wear-and-tear issue.

     

    Granderson is older than Kemp, but a much, much better outfielder.

     

    Granderson got a 4 year $60mill offer this offseason.   I would expect that would have been the absolute peak for Kemp, given his longer and more threatening injury history, his fewer games played, his massive drops in production over multiple seasons.

     

    So, no.  Absolutely no way would Kemp have gotten another $40mill over one more season than Granderson.  And he certainly hasn’t played like he should have, either.  This guy got benched behind Carl Crawford not too long ago…

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Kemp trade re-opens and Sox again interested

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:

    In response to georom4's comment:

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:

    "actually Theo was hired to turn the Cubs into winners three years ago - and he's failed...they dont give any awards for that Im sure."

    He was supposed to turn that franchise around in 6 months?

    You may want to consider taking a break from posting now.

    That hole you're in just keeps getting deeper.

     

    ---------------------------------------------------

    this is from a little Chicago newspaper 2 weeks ago...enjoy reading it...

    The Cubs are set to play the Boston Red Sox at Fenway Park on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday.

    You know what that means: The Cubs will be camping out in the funny-speaking city that forged their president of baseball operations, Theo Epstein.

    Now in his third season with the Cubs, Epstein was raised in Brookline, Massachusetts, played baseball for the Brookline High School Warriors and always wanted to work for the Red Sox. He got that chance, becoming, as everyone has heard countless times, the youngest general manager in baseball history (28 years, 11 months), then the youngest GM (30) to win a World Series title, in 2004.

    Of course, he also was the youngest GM to win two World Series crowns when the previously drought-stricken Red Sox won again in 2007.

    He was the wonder boy, the Mark Zuckerberg of horsehide, named baseball ‘‘Executive of the Decade’’ by The Sporting News in 2009. Only a nuclear fueling rod could have been hotter.

    Then he came to Chicago.

    The skid marks stretch to the horizon.

    I won’t bore you with Theo’s stats of deceleration, but the Cubs have lost 82 more games than they’ve won since he took charge after the 2011 season. During his tenure, they have finished last, last and (likely) last again in the National League Central, a quaint division made up of small-market teams in much smaller cities.

    Consider, if you will, that neither St. Louis, Cincinnati nor Pittsburgh has an NBA team. And Milwaukee has no NFL team, unless you count Green Bay. Just consider those facts, is all.

    At any rate, Epstein is here on a rich five-year deal, and he has not lost heart, and he thinks — as he says endlessly — the Cubs ‘‘are headed in the right direction.’’

    But are they? Only a mole could call their trajectory upward.

    They have played reasonably well in their last 24 games — going 14-10 — but that doesn’t do much when you started off 20-36.

    Jake Arrieta and Jason Hammel are a combined 11-6 with a 2.05 and 2.98 ERA, respectively. That’s nice. That’s big-time. But we don’t know who will stay with the team and who’s trade bait.

    If there’s a symbol of the Cubs’ uncertainty and tough luck, it’s pitcher Jeff Samardzija, who leads the team in innings, has a 2.83 ERA and is only 2-7. The guy could be a rock in the Cubs’ foundation, but it seems he’s almost certainly headed off to another team for more money.

    Epstein has minor-leaguers who look really good — Kris Bryant and Javy Baez — but all we can say to that is, remember Felix Pie? Anybody in Class AAA throw a 90  mph changeup, a 94 mph slider? Uh, no.

    So there’s risk, and there are money issues for Theo. Call it the Wrigley Field un-tappable piggy bank.

    Whatever. A boy genius, now 40, can’t like being called a fool. So we wonder about Epstein, about what he’s thinking career-wise, about whether he plans to stick around through his contract with its two more years, and beyond. Or whether he has come to the conclusion that previously struck Dallas Green, Andy MacPhail, Dusty Baker, Lou Piniella, et al.: The Cubs are somehow incorrigible. Call it cursed, if you want. Or dumb as a grub farm.

    The other day, Epstein talked about the possibility of losing his handpicked senior vice president for scouting and player development, Jason McLeod, also a former Boston guy. It seems a major-league team or two have shown interest in him as a GM.

    “It’d be a big loss, obviously, because he’s really talented,” Epstein said. “His heart is in this the way mine is and the way all of our hearts are in it.’’

    Well, yes. But mostly your paychecks and reputations are in it.

    But then Epstein added something almost fatalistic, semi-Jerry Krause-ian:

    ‘‘But this organization is bigger than any one person. I’m not going anywhere, but if I stepped away tomorrow, we’d be fine.’’

    There was just the hint of former Bulls GM Krause’s notorious, “Players and coaches alone don’t win championships; organizations win championships,’’ in Theo’s statement. No matter that Krause was right. And maybe Theo is, too. In a sense.

    But do you really need to say it?

    Michael Jordan didn’t think so.

    What does it mean, after all? Theo himself can be replaced and the Cubs will just keep galloping — excuse me, staggering — along?

    No, Epstein has to be the guy. He has to see this through. He dealt himself in. He now knows Chicago sure as hell ain’t Boston. He can’t be replaced. And he better not leave.

    Not after blowing up the bridge and telling us the new — unseen — one will be absolutely fabulous.

     

    http://www.suntimes.com/sports/telander/28384051-452/telander-hey-theo-epstein-cubs-fans-are-still-waiting.html#.U8lLWvldVF4" rel="nofollow">http://www.suntimes.com/sports/telander/28384051-452/telander-hey-theo-epstein-cubs-fans-are-still-waiting.html#.U8lLWvldVF4" rel="nofollow">http://www.suntimes.com/sports/telander/28384051-452/telander-hey-theo-epstein-cubs-fans-are-still-waiting.html#.U8lLWvldVF4




    I never said you were alone in being clueless.



    Haha...Exactly.  I guess every newspaper has a Tony Massarotti type, someone who is paid to spin the negative, regardless of the facts.  Meanwhile, anyone who actually works in baseball will tell you that Epstein has done a terrific job (Edwin Jackson head scratcher aside) rebuilding the Cubs.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Kemp trade re-opens and Sox again interested

    In response to dannycater's comment:

    I have one degree, I know people with five degrees and I can tell you that doesn't mean jack when it comes to forming an opinion, drawing conclusions, and being intelligent. You can also get degrees now on-line, or buy them on-line. With that said, I agree Kemp is a risk, but I do think he has the potential to be a giant power hitter again.



    Agreed, im not dismissing the ideal.  For the right price id take that chance; but im not giving up my top prospect and eating his whole salary. And i agree having a degree doesn't always mean jack, half the kids i went to college with never attended classes and were there for the beer.  I learned more out in the field than I did in class and it took me everywhere from Boston to Las Vegas to Thailand. Im glad you agree its a risk, that is my main point.  Sometimes risks are worth taking, but risk needs to be priced in.  Kemp could probably be had for very little to a team willing to eat some salary.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Kemp trade re-opens and Sox again interested

    I gotta go with the naysayers--very solid logic and stats.  Kemp ain't the fix. 

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Kemp trade re-opens and Sox again interested

    In response to ampoule's comment:


    In response to hill55's comment:


    In response to ampoule's comment:


    By the way, if, and I hope, Ben Carson runs for president, he'll get my vote.


    Perhaps your vote can replace that of your favorite, Dinesh D'Souza, who is about to lose his right to vote, his right to hold most public offices and his right to bear arms.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/may/20/dinesh-dsouza-pleads-guilty-campaign-finance-viola/" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/may/20/dinesh-dsouza-pleads-guilty-campaign-finance-viola/" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/may/20/dinesh-dsouza-pleads-guilty-campaign-finance-viola/" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/may/20/dinesh-dsouza-pleads-guilty-campaign-finance-viola/" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/may/20/dinesh-dsouza-pleads-guilty-campaign-finance-viola/" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/may/20/dinesh-dsouza-pleads-guilty-campaign-finance-viola/" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/may/20/dinesh-dsouza-pleads-guilty-campaign-finance-viola/" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/may/20/dinesh-dsouza-pleads-guilty-campaign-finance-viola/" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/may/20/dinesh-dsouza-pleads-guilty-campaign-finance-viola/" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/may/20/dinesh-dsouza-pleads-guilty-campaign-finance-viola/" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/may/20/dinesh-dsouza-pleads-guilty-campaign-finance-viola/" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/may/20/dinesh-dsouza-pleads-guilty-campaign-finance-viola/" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/may/20/dinesh-dsouza-pleads-guilty-campaign-finance-viola/" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/may/20/dinesh-dsouza-pleads-guilty-campaign-finance-viola/" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/may/20/dinesh-dsouza-pleads-guilty-campaign-finance-viola/" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/may/20/dinesh-dsouza-pleads-guilty-campaign-finance-viola/" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/may/20/dinesh-dsouza-pleads-guilty-campaign-finance-viola/" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/may/20/dinesh-dsouza-pleads-guilty-campaign-finance-viola/" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/may/20/dinesh-dsouza-pleads-guilty-campaign-finance-viola/" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/may/20/dinesh-dsouza-pleads-guilty-campaign-finance-viola/" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/may/20/dinesh-dsouza-pleads-guilty-campaign-finance-viola/" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/may/20/dinesh-dsouza-pleads-guilty-campaign-finance-viola/" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/may/20/dinesh-dsouza-pleads-guilty-campaign-finance-viola/" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/may/20/dinesh-dsouza-pleads-guilty-campaign-finance-viola/" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/may/20/dinesh-dsouza-pleads-guilty-campaign-finance-viola/" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/may/20/dinesh-dsouza-pleads-guilty-campaign-finance-viola/" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/may/20/dinesh-dsouza-pleads-guilty-campaign-finance-viola/" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/may/20/dinesh-dsouza-pleads-guilty-campaign-finance-viola/" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/may/20/dinesh-dsouza-pleads-guilty-campaign-finance-viola/" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/may/20/dinesh-dsouza-pleads-guilty-campaign-finance-viola/" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/may/20/dinesh-dsouza-pleads-guilty-campaign-finance-viola/" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/may/20/dinesh-dsouza-pleads-guilty-campaign-finance-viola/" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/may/20/dinesh-dsouza-pleads-guilty-campaign-finance-viola/" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/may/20/dinesh-dsouza-pleads-guilty-campaign-finance-viola/


    Sorry, ampoule, I could not resist.


    Peace be with you, my friend.


    You're right.  He is one of my favorites, but I don't think his movie 'America' goes over well up there in Portland...sold out here in Roseburg.


    Do you not think the embellished charges against him are due to his anti-Obama stance?

    When I saw an 11:35 am showing of the film America after church one Sunday, I was one of three people in the Portland theater. I try to consume media from across the political spectrum. Although I saw D'Souza's earlier film 2016: Obama's America, and read the book upon which the film was based, I have no current plans to read the book upon which the second film was based.


    D'Souza's professed love of America might be genuine, but he certainly does not like America. 


    I don't know the details of D'Souza's case, but any competent prosecutor will anticipate possible defenses before seeking criminal charges. I suspect the U.S. Attorney's Office considered the potential selective-prosecution defense and decided the defense lacked merit. Media accounts are somewhat vague, but a judge apparently agreed at a pretrial hearing.


    Google "straw donor convictions" to find that most similar cases reported by the media were against persons who donated to Democratic candidates, including several who donated to Hillary Clinton's 2008 presidential campaign. Those reported cases involved schemes far larger than D'Souza's so I would want to know how many prosecuted cases involved the $20,000 or so in D'Souza's case. D'Souza faces a presumptive prison term, so at sentencing this September his defense team will likely cite convictions that resulted in no prison time because relatively little money was involved. 


    One of D'Souza's straw donors reportedly was a young woman whom he introduced as his fiancee in September 2012 when the couple shared a hotel room at a Christian conference in South Carolina. D'Souza was still married at the time, as was the young woman, whose husband reportedly was another one of D'Souza's straw donors. D'Souza soon thereafter lost his post as president of King's College, an evangelical institution of higher education in Manhattan.


    Hypocrisy infuriated me when I was young ... now I find hypocrisy merely fascinating.


    I may delete this post because I've refrained from political posts in my eight years on this forum.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BogieAt12oclock. Show BogieAt12oclock's posts

    Re: Kemp trade re-opens and Sox again interested

    In response to dannycater's comment:

    Geo, I know. We had VMART and Beltre and dismissed them both at the same time...How sad is that? And yes, people, I'm well aware the Sox won the 2013 WS title.



    That's the FO's 'get out of jail free' card for the next several years.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BogieAt12oclock. Show BogieAt12oclock's posts

    Re: Kemp trade re-opens and Sox again interested

    In response to dannycater's comment:

    VMART had a lot to offer as a 1B, and Beltre as a 3b, but Theo wanted AGON at all costs. 



    Theo let his love affair with A-GONE affect his job. Another case of why romances in the work place usually turn out badly. I wonder if they're still dating?

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from bosoxmal. Show bosoxmal's posts

    Re: Kemp trade re-opens and Sox again interested

    In response to notin's comment:

    See and this is why I can’t take a lot of you people seriously.  (And to be fair, many of my posts shouldn’t be taken seriously as well, although I am usually pretty blatant in that regard.)  Many of you get too focused on individual stats that need to be “replaced.”   

    “Who is going to steal all Ellsbury’s bases?”   “We need more home runs!!”  “Where are all our lost HBP going to come from?” 

    These are fine strategies for your fantasy league, where that kind of stuff matters, but you don’t fix an offense by getting “home runs” and “stolen bases.”   

    Last week, not to single him out, but dannycater threw the name Trumbo out there as a hitter the Sox could use because of his prodigious power number., and the logic was obvious.  But flawed in my opinion.   You go get a guy because he hits 30 home runs in 650 PA, and then what happens in his other 620 plate appearances’?  Sure, one could argue that those 30 home runs might win 30 games, but, guess what?   They won’t.   In fact,  at least 20 of them will come when the game is all but decided one way or the other.  So now you are hoping for maybe 10 clutch home runs?  You won’t get that many.   Maybe   Not everyone has the same flair for the dramatic as David Ortiz.  In fact, no one else does. 

    And power can come from anywhere.  Raise your hand if, in March,  you thought ANY the following names would still be in the top 20 in MLB in home runs in mid-July:  Brandon Moss, Victor Martinez, Josh Donaldson, George Springer, Chris Carter, Brian Dozier, Nelson Cruz, Todd Frazier, and Marlon Byrd.   That’s 45% of the list who are not among the usual suspects.  From last year’s top ten HR hitters, only Edwin Encarnacion is among the top 20 this year.  The stat bounces around more than many people realize. 

    The Sox don’t need to focus on “home run hitters” just because that stat is down.  They need to focus on hitters period, and let the home runs take care of themselves, the way they always do.  Getting guys like Kemp because he can hit home runs (and, better yet, “be a monster at Fenway”) has way more chance of being a disastrous move that does neither.  

    Kemp is an awful idea for a lot of reasons, most of which center around the fact that it isn’t 2010 anymore.  Back when Kemp was putting up the numbers his proponets are buying into, guys like Curtis Granderson and Ryan Howard were among the game’s top offensive players and Dan Uggla and Mark Reynolds actually mattered with a bat in their hands.  Should the Sox investigate those players, too?  

    Ironically, all of them are probably better choices, since at least they aren’t $20mill albatrosses more the next 4 seasons.   

    OK, maybe not Howard.  He’s a worse choice than Kemp…




    We've already got one stiff, do we really need more Napoli's?

     
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