Koji, Lack of Respect, Tired of Ship Him Out Talk

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Koji, Lack of Respect, Tired of Ship Him Out Talk

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    In response to MadMc44's comment:

    ctredsox----I agree you have to take the emotional piece away. He is a valuable chip--you trade Ue and Lester--you have officially conceded the season.

    Trade Lester, Ue, to the Dodgers and help them win a WS. The Dodgers will treat Lester right not like we've seen from the RS management. I have forgotten who it was in ??the last 24 hours, that loaded a package to the Dodgers including Miller, Ue and Lester in exchange for Pederson and Seager( the #1 and #2 Dodger prospects).

    If I'm the Dodgers that would get my attention--maybe we get a pitcher from the Dodger 25 man roster.



    Why not go after Pederson???

    I don't know how realistic that is, but Koji/Lester packaged together gives a team going for it one of the games best post season starters, and a guy who has been the most dominant closer in baseball over the past year.    Any team looking to "go for it" would love that package, and Pederson could solve our RF problems in Fenway for years.

    The two guys I'd go after in LA are Pederson and Urias, If I had to send a pitching prospect over to sweeten the deal I would. 




    [object HTMLDivElement]

    Heck, at that point, I might tell LA to make it simple and send any 2 of their top three.  Assuming Seager is their #1, and we got Pederson and Urias, we have a heist.  And I am not a fan of Pederson either, but those two for 2 months of 3 FAs?  I'd drive them out myself.

    And since you have more insight into prospects, does Urias become our best pitching prospect over Owens?  Will both be top-25 in the next round of assessments?

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Koji, Lack of Respect, Tired of Ship Him Out Talk

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    In response to MadMc44's comment:

    ctredsox----I agree you have to take the emotional piece away. He is a valuable chip--you trade Ue and Lester--you have officially conceded the season.

    Trade Lester, Ue, to the Dodgers and help them win a WS. The Dodgers will treat Lester right not like we've seen from the RS management. I have forgotten who it was in ??the last 24 hours, that loaded a package to the Dodgers including Miller, Ue and Lester in exchange for Pederson and Seager( the #1 and #2 Dodger prospects).

    If I'm the Dodgers that would get my attention--maybe we get a pitcher from the Dodger 25 man roster.



    Why not go after Pederson???

    I don't know how realistic that is, but Koji/Lester packaged together gives a team going for it one of the games best post season starters, and a guy who has been the most dominant closer in baseball over the past year.    Any team looking to "go for it" would love that package, and Pederson could solve our RF problems in Fenway for years.

    The two guys I'd go after in LA are Pederson and Urias, If I had to send a pitching prospect over to sweeten the deal I would. 




    [object HTMLDivElement]

    Heck, at that point, I might tell LA to make it simple and send any 2 of their top three.  Assuming Seager is their #1, and we got Pederson and Urias, we have a heist.  And I am not a fan of Pederson either, but those two for 2 months of 3 FAs?  I'd drive them out myself.

    And since you have more insight into prospects, does Urias become our best pitching prospect over Owens?  Will both be top-25 in the next round of assessments?



    No way we'd get Pederson and Urias in the same deal, unless there are more sox prospects moving over in the deal and there's a fit.  Unlikely is more like it.

    Urias would automatically become are #1 pitching prospect and would probably be #2 or #3.  Some may perfer him over Swihart but I'd say he'd slide in at 3. 

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Koji, Lack of Respect, Tired of Ship Him Out Talk

    Think of it this way, Urias is 4 years younger than Owens, and putting up some impressive numbers just one level beneath him.  Way more upside.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BogieAt12oclock. Show BogieAt12oclock's posts

    Re: Koji, Lack of Respect, Tired of Ship Him Out Talk

    In response to dannycater's comment:

    jasko thinks they are a dime a dozen, I don't. And don't make any mistake about Schiraldi and TimBree as the team's RELIABLE closers. They weren't. They were not automatics, and they all showed their shakiness enough that one manager wouldn't go to them, and another had no choice but to go to a rookie who was cracking badly under pressure. Koji has no fear, never had it. Never did I ever think the Sox were going to choke with him on the hill....Never.



    I agree about keeping Koji. With a team loaded with overpriced mediocrity, the SOX should try to keep the players that would actually help the team down the line. There aren't that many on this current roster. 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Koji, Lack of Respect, Tired of Ship Him Out Talk

    Bogie, boggles the mind how quickly people want to dispose of guys WHO ACTUALLY HELP YOU WIN.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Koji, Lack of Respect, Tired of Ship Him Out Talk

    But make sure we hold on to Nava, now that he's hitting 400 after hitting 100 for 2 months.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: Koji, Lack of Respect, Tired of Ship Him Out Talk

    I don't think it's "disrespect" to contemplate trading a guy if you think it'd be in the team's best interest moving forward.


    With Lester and, to a lesser extent, Uehara I see three possible outcomes.


    1. Keep him past this season.


    2. Trade him for as much as you can get.


    3. Let him walk for nothing (or only a draft pick, in Lester's case) in the offseason.


    I want to see #1, but if that's not going to happen I definitely prefer #2 to #3.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Koji, Lack of Respect, Tired of Ship Him Out Talk

    In response to dannycater's comment:


    But make sure we hold on to Nava, now that he's hitting 400 after hitting 100 for 2 months.




    Nava also has a much longer track record of hitting before he struggled those two months. 


    Actually, he only really struggled for 1 month as he had 10 at bats in May. 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: Koji, Lack of Respect, Tired of Ship Him Out Talk

    Nava hit .130 with .455 OPS in his first 86 PA's of the season and .342/.814 in 127 PA's since. But yeah, let's just keep bashing one of the few guys who is actually tearing the cover off the ball because he had a bad April. (Don't worry, he will go back into a slump at some point!)

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Koji, Lack of Respect, Tired of Ship Him Out Talk

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    In response to MadMc44's comment:

    ctredsox----I agree you have to take the emotional piece away. He is a valuable chip--you trade Ue and Lester--you have officially conceded the season.

    Trade Lester, Ue, to the Dodgers and help them win a WS. The Dodgers will treat Lester right not like we've seen from the RS management. I have forgotten who it was in ??the last 24 hours, that loaded a package to the Dodgers including Miller, Ue and Lester in exchange for Pederson and Seager( the #1 and #2 Dodger prospects).

    If I'm the Dodgers that would get my attention--maybe we get a pitcher from the Dodger 25 man roster.



    Why not go after Pederson???

    I don't know how realistic that is, but Koji/Lester packaged together gives a team going for it one of the games best post season starters, and a guy who has been the most dominant closer in baseball over the past year.    Any team looking to "go for it" would love that package, and Pederson could solve our RF problems in Fenway for years.

    The two guys I'd go after in LA are Pederson and Urias, If I had to send a pitching prospect over to sweeten the deal I would. 




    [object HTMLDivElement]

    Heck, at that point, I might tell LA to make it simple and send any 2 of their top three.  Assuming Seager is their #1, and we got Pederson and Urias, we have a heist.  And I am not a fan of Pederson either, but those two for 2 months of 3 FAs?  I'd drive them out myself.

    And since you have more insight into prospects, does Urias become our best pitching prospect over Owens?  Will both be top-25 in the next round of assessments?



    also to add to this. on Baseball America's mid season top 50 Julio Urias was ranked as #13; Owens was ranked #15.  Seager was 16th, and Pederson was 18th. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from trouts. Show trouts's posts

    Re: Koji, Lack of Respect, Tired of Ship Him Out Talk

    I love Koji, but he's one of the few tradable pieces on the team. This team stinks and will be lucky to end up .500 for the season. 2015 will be more of the same if we stand still. I'd make everyone available.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Koji, Lack of Respect, Tired of Ship Him Out Talk

    In response to dannycater's comment:



    I've never seen a player get less appreciation more it's business talk than Koji. This guy is a gem, a diamond in the rough. Yet, all I hear here (hey, how bout that consecutive wording) is he's too old, don't commit to him past one year, ship him out now while the price is high, get rid of him because the Sox don't need a closer and they are a dime a dozen. I give up. Shame on everyone who wants him gone. The guy is quite possibly the best Sox closer in their history.


    QUOTE:



    DC I agree on Koji, We don't have Lester locked up and now fans even want to trade our best closer in some time.  Fans out who were screaming for JBJ, Bogy, Middy, Doub, Webster and others who had success in the minors should also now understand they all have issues and were far from instant replacements.  At the moment we maybe have five or six players who are valuable enough to keep, all the rest are either mediocre talents or need more time to develop.


    Our FO needs to make more than just a few changes in this team and start flipping some of these prospects we collect like rocks for oneS who may fit long term.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from sycophant123. Show sycophant123's posts

    Re: Koji, Lack of Respect, Tired of Ship Him Out Talk

    In response to bosoxmal's comment:

    In response to dannycater's comment:

    I've never seen a player get less appreciation more it's business talk than Koji. This guy is a gem, a diamond in the rough. Yet, all I hear here (hey, how bout that consecutive wording) is he's too old, don't commit to him past one year, ship him out now while the price is high, get rid of him because the Sox don't need a closer and they are a dime a dozen. I give up. Shame on everyone who wants him gone. The guy is quite possibly the best Sox closer in their history.




    I agree 90%. The 10% disagreement comes with the "best ever" comment. Obviously you either never saw, or have forgotten Dick Radatz.



    Radatz WHIP in his best season 1.025 Koji had a WHIP last year of .565. 

    Not close man.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Koji, Lack of Respect, Tired of Ship Him Out Talk

    In response to RigatoniT's comment:

    How is wanting to trade Koji, a very good closer, over 35, on a short contract., and on a last place team, an issue of lack of respect?

    Dude is very valuable as a trade chip.... that sounds like respect to me.



    Because I don't call him a "very good closer," he is in the phenomenal range, and yes, I'm aware of some slips this year. But time and time again he's had 3-out saves and dominating saves that are so automatic, it's refreshing from the days of Heathcliff Slocumb and Papelbon's bases loaded saves even toward the end. But I think Papelbon is and was one of the best closers around. Yet Papelbon is not Koji, that's how good Koji is too.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Koji, Lack of Respect, Tired of Ship Him Out Talk

    In response to dannycater's comment:

    But make sure we hold on to Nava, now that he's hitting 400 after hitting 100 for 2 months.




    [object HTMLDivElement]

    The point of any trade is to trade something you don't need for something that someone else needs.

    With Betts and Vic being RH, Nava is far more valuable to us than anyone else.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Koji, Lack of Respect, Tired of Ship Him Out Talk

    In response to dannycater's comment:

    Bogie, boggles the mind how quickly people want to dispose of guys WHO ACTUALLY HELP YOU WIN.




    [object HTMLDivElement]

    You have a self-defeating argument.

    Some say that lots of people can close.

    You say that Koji is special.

    But Koji wasn't the original closer.

    And Koji wasn't the #2 closer.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Koji, Lack of Respect, Tired of Ship Him Out Talk

    Without looking, anyone know what Koji's career high in saves is?

    Just post what you think it is without looking.

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Koji, Lack of Respect, Tired of Ship Him Out Talk

    Oh, so what he did before last year (and what he has already done this year) doesn't count? It's all about what he did before he became uber Closer....All-Star in his 2nd season after maybe the greatest single stretch by a reliever in MLB history. But hey, he's a dime a dozen, right, Joe? You are exactly why I started this thread. Go ahead and watch how crappy the next few closers are after Koji...It won't be pretty.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Koji, Lack of Respect, Tired of Ship Him Out Talk

    I'm sure Mujica can do the job...he did it for St. Louis...oh that's right before he was left off the WS roster.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Koji, Lack of Respect, Tired of Ship Him Out Talk

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    In response to dannycater's comment:

    But make sure we hold on to Nava, now that he's hitting 400 after hitting 100 for 2 months.




    [object HTMLDivElement]

    The point of any trade is to trade something you don't need for something that someone else needs.

    With Betts and Vic being RH, Nava is far more valuable to us than anyone else.



    Obviously Nava is the future while Koji is not important in comparison...wow, you are nuts.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazy-world-of-troybrown. Show crazy-world-of-troybrown's posts

    Re: Koji, Lack of Respect, Tired of Ship Him Out Talk

    What cracks me up is Trading to the Dodgers for their best prospects, when all they have to do is wait a couple of Months, throw some big money at them, and they will keep their Prospects. Trading for them doesn't assure them of a WS.
    On top of that losing your best prospects if you don't win. The smart move is to wait.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Koji, Lack of Respect, Tired of Ship Him Out Talk

    In response to dannycater's comment:

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    In response to dannycater's comment:

    But make sure we hold on to Nava, now that he's hitting 400 after hitting 100 for 2 months.




    [object HTMLDivElement]

    The point of any trade is to trade something you don't need for something that someone else needs.

    With Betts and Vic being RH, Nava is far more valuable to us than anyone else.



    Obviously Nava is the future while Koji is not important in comparison...wow, you are nuts.




    [object HTMLDivElement]

    Try to get a grip on yourself.

    1-Nowhere did I say Nava is more important than Koji.

    2-Examine the trade possibilities.  We trade Nava for a C-level prospect.  So we start 2015 with Betts, JBJ, and Vic in the OF, so we decide the best fit for a #4 is a lefty.  So we either sign a bad lefty for $1M, or a decent lefty for $3M, instead of having simply retained Nava.  That makes -0- sense.

    3-IRT Koji, we follow your advice, let him play out, and LAD signs him for 2015-2016.  We get nothing.  Explain how that benefits us?

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Koji, Lack of Respect, Tired of Ship Him Out Talk

    In response to crazy-world-of-troybrown's comment:

    What cracks me up is Trading to the Dodgers for their best prospects, when all they have to do is wait a couple of Months, throw some big money at them, and they will keep their Prospects. Trading for them doesn't assure them of a WS.
    On top of that losing your best prospects if you don't win. The smart move is to wait.




    [object HTMLDivElement]

    Normally, I'd agree with you.  But LAD is .5 out of 1st.  A trade probably moves them from a 1-game playoff to being the WS favorite.  You'd still have pry Urias' contract out of my fingers, but suppose you don't make the move, and Urias flattens out, how would you feel to have blown the chance to win it all?

    And let's say a trade is the difference between 2nd place and 1st place.  Calculate just how much that is worth to the team for the playoff spending, plus regular season ratings and attendance, and maybe for people deciding to sign up for the cable package.  I like Urias, but how much is he worth in terms of projected WAR v his control years salary?

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Koji, Lack of Respect, Tired of Ship Him Out Talk

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    In response to dannycater's comment:

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    In response to dannycater's comment:

    But make sure we hold on to Nava, now that he's hitting 400 after hitting 100 for 2 months.




    [object HTMLDivElement]

    The point of any trade is to trade something you don't need for something that someone else needs.

    With Betts and Vic being RH, Nava is far more valuable to us than anyone else.



    Obviously Nava is the future while Koji is not important in comparison...wow, you are nuts.




    [object HTMLDivElement]

    Try to get a grip on yourself.

    1-Nowhere did I say Nava is more important than Koji.

    2-Examine the trade possibilities.  We trade Nava for a C-level prospect.  So we start 2015 with Betts, JBJ, and Vic in the OF, so we decide the best fit for a #4 is a lefty.  So we either sign a bad lefty for $1M, or a decent lefty for $3M, instead of having simply retained Nava.  That makes -0- sense.

    3-IRT Koji, we follow your advice, let him play out, and LAD signs him for 2015-2016.  We get nothing.  Explain how that benefits us?



    Koji has already said he loves Boston and wants to continue playing here....SIGN HIM...but not they are going to do the same thing they did with Lester....So, yes, if they want to play games (the Front Office) then of course you end up trading both and the team never returns to the WS without a top proven postseason SP and their best closer in club history (short sample size, Papelbon certainly has to be considered for longer body of work part). Radatz too. 

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Koji, Lack of Respect, Tired of Ship Him Out Talk

    JoeB---you can never, never have enough pitching. Even at this juncture of the season how much quality pitching is enough? How much is a WS worth to that management group?


    I think Urias or Pedersen or Seager and a #10 Dodger prospect would work.


    For the Dodgers to march out Lester, Grienke and Kershaw and have Ue as a set up man or closer. That seals the deal---Duck Boat Paradeā€¦.Plus Lester and Ue would probably resign looking for a possible "3 peat" if all goes well.

     
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