Lackey and Crawford,,,the two most maligned players become big heroes.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Lackey and Crawford,,,the two most maligned players become big heroes.

    Funny how things work out.

    Anyone ashamed of their comments?

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: Lackey and Crawford,,,the two most maligned players become big heroes.




    How about that!!!
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Lackey and Crawford,,,the two most maligned players become big heroes.

    The new signature works for you...
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from softylaw. Show softylaw's posts

    Re: Lackey and Crawford,,,the two most maligned players become big heroes.

    Crawford's pressure relieving tide turning hit and 4 for 4 games is ignored in favor of a sac fly and cryer homer after Crawford and Scutaro staked 2 run lead.

    Crawford wasn't a hero at all, on here or media.

    Lackey was overdue, with his 5 to 6 ERA. No hero, though. Job done, for one game.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Lackey and Crawford,,,the two most maligned players become big heroes.

    In Response to Lackey and Crawford,,,the two most maligned players become big heroes.:
    [QUOTE]Funny how things work out. Anyone ashamed of their comments?
    Posted by ZILLAGOD[/QUOTE]

    ZILL, I'm not sure I agree with Lackey and Carl becomming hero's just yet.  John is still a pitcher who needs to be watched very closely and kept on a short leash.  When things go bad for John they tend to get worse, unlike Jon or Josh who may have one bad inning but still pitch well after.  I think John pitches more like a #4 or 5 guy, not the 80mil #3 we are paying him to be.

    Carl, I always thought would find his groove at some point and what better time than now.


     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Lackey and Crawford,,,the two most maligned players become big heroes.

    Guilty as charged.  I've said some good things about both of them, but more often have dumped on them.  Ellsbury got the rbi's yesterday, but Lackey done great, especially against such a good and lefty-heavy offense.  And Crawford was a great table-setter with 4 hits and 3 runs scored, including the Sox first hit, a double, and first run. 

    If these two can continue along this path, it can only be positive for the Sox. 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Lackey and Crawford,,,the two most maligned players become big heroes.

    In Response to Re: Lackey and Crawford,,,the two most maligned players become big heroes.:
    [QUOTE]Crawford's pressure relieving tide turning hit and 4 for 4 games is ignored in favor of a sac fly and cryer homer after Crawford and Scutaro staked 2 run lead. Crawford wasn't a hero at all, on here or media. Lackey was overdue, with his 5 to 6 ERA. No hero, though. Job done, for one game.
    Posted by softylaw[/QUOTE]

    What about his trend since June (3.41 ERA?)
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from softylaw. Show softylaw's posts

    Re: Lackey and Crawford,,,the two most maligned players become big heroes.

    Steve, a trend since June 1? That would be half the elapsed season. Why is his ERA around 6?

    Steve, would you like Lackey for just paying his remaining contract? I'll take AJ.......................

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Lackey and Crawford,,,the two most maligned players become big heroes.

    Lackey vs. Burnett

    Fangraphs value:

    Lackey 2010 - 15.9 million
    Lackey 2011 - 4.0 million

    AJ 2009 - 15.4 million
    AJ 2010 - 5.2 million
    AJ 2011 - 4.5 million

    They are producing the same since signing identical contracts. Lackey's elbow is a concern so I would lean towards Burnett, Burnett still has the better fastball but Lackey is overall a better and more balanced pitcher.

    Both were overpaid to be 2 of the best #3 pitchers in the game. They were luxury #4 pitchers when Hughes and Buccholz stepped up last year, but are now having more asked of them with Pettite retired/Hughes hurt and dice-K/Buchholz hurt.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Lackey and Crawford,,,the two most maligned players become big heroes.

    However, only Burnett could be blamed for his teams failure to advance further in a season so far into the big contract (which is the reason for them both being maligned). In 2010 he was WAY worse than Lackey, costing them homefield and he was BLOWN UP in his only postseason start vs. Texas.

    It was injuries ONLY, and not basically 16 million worth of reg season performance from John Lackey, that doomed the 2010 Sox. Now we are healthy(er) and in 1st place with a better team, but still have Lackey as a #3 starter, this postseason (and the division race for homefield) could hinge on him, and this is where he earns his money.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Lackey and Crawford,,,the two most maligned players become big heroes.

    J.D. Drew was much maligned (and rightly so) for giving a 7.6 million (fangraphs) season after signing his 5/70 deal.

    Yet he hit .314 in the postseason with that grand slam and all was forgiven.

    These type of contract are long. You go into them knowing Drew was worth 12 million over 4 seasons but you had to pay 14 over 5 to get him here and keep him over others. You knew Lackey was worth 14 million over 4 seasons but had to pay him 16 over 5...etc.

    Lackey was WAY better than Drew his first season in Boston.

    Drew went on to be worth 18.5 and 22.5 in 08 and 09. He dropped back down to 10 million last season, but through 4 years he was worth 58.5 million and paid 56 million. No complaints there. Just that this last year was a disaster. But when you sign a guy for 1 too many years in his 30's you also have to expect one of them (or the last one) will be a wash b/c of injuries, skill decline or both.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Lackey and Crawford,,,the two most maligned players become big heroes.

    If Lackey keeps up his act since mid June he will put together a decent season for a #4 starter, even as we need him to be a #3.

    6-7 starts where he has his career ERA of around 4 and WHIP of around 1.3 and he'll end up at 14-9 with an ERA around 5.4 and a WHIP around 1.4, Pretty bad looking on the surface...but a VERY solid finsih after a horribe start his injured elbow was a big part of.

    Fangraphs would prob give that an 8-11 million value.

    If he has a good postseason and we win it all he will be the reverse J.D. Drew. Worth just over half his salary in a championship season he did well in down the stretch his 2nd yr (Drew did it in his first) while making his money his 1st year (Drew did it his 2nd year) in a season we made little noise.

     
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Lackey and Crawford,,,the two most maligned players become big heroes.

    We will have then only overpaid Lackey by 8 million over 10-11 (when you consider his signing bonus he made 18 million last year).

    Then he makes 15.25 million each season for the next 3 years.

    2 seasons like 2010 and 1 season like his last in LA in 2009 and we come out of the 5 years of John Lackey a lot better than we did the 5 years of J.D. Drew, even if he NEVER has a season like he did 05-07 in LA.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Lackey and Crawford,,,the two most maligned players become big heroes.

    In Response to Re: Lackey and Crawford,,,the two most maligned players become big heroes.:
    [QUOTE]We will have then only overpaid Lackey by 8 million over 10-11 (when you consider his signing bonus he made 18 million last year). Then he makes 15.25 million each season for the next 3 years. 2 seasons like 2010 and 1 season like his last in LA in 2009 and we come out of the 5 years of John Lackey a lot better than we did the 5 years of J.D. Drew, even if he NEVER has a season like he did 05-07 in LA.
    Posted by rameakap[/QUOTE]

    ram, I think John is what we see and it probably won't change much pitching more games against AL East teams.

    If Bedard does well and Theo decides to resign him a rotation of Josh, Jon, John, Clay and Eric wouldn't be too shabby.  If Miller or Doubront improve Bedard probably wouldn't be back regardless but that remains to be seen.  I think we all "including myself" need to get over the fact John was really paid to be our #3.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: Lackey and Crawford,,,the two most maligned players become big heroes.

    I think both deserve a hug.

    ...or at the very least an "attaboy!"

    Come on guys, let's have a little love for these two.

    Or are they doomed to be treated like Julio Lugo for the rest of their useful ( Red Sox ) lives?
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Lackey and Crawford,,,the two most maligned players become big heroes.

    "Lackey was overdue, with his 5 to 6 ERA. No hero, though. Job done, for one game"

    No, it doesn't make him a hero, but "job done" is a bit of an underestimate. If we end up winning the division, this could end up being the pivotal game as we looked back. Fact is it was a high pressure situation and Lackey stepped up. Doesn't justify the signing but it is slightly against the script you have written. Job done would apply to a more routine win against the Orioles or what have you. That said it looks like Lackey may be playing in some big post season games the way things look now so we'll see if he can really hack it.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxmeister. Show soxmeister's posts

    Re: Lackey and Crawford,,,the two most maligned players become big heroes.

    I agree with Softy on Craw not getting his due ... Els did soem great stuff, but the media and other posters on here seem to concentrate only when Craw has a bad day, and not give him his due when he plays great. 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Lackey and Crawford,,,the two most maligned players become big heroes.

    In Response to Re: Lackey and Crawford,,,the two most maligned players become big heroes.:
    [QUOTE]How about that!!!
    Posted by ZILLAGOD[/QUOTE]

    Zill that is the best damn signature I have ever seen and so very true.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Lackey and Crawford,,,the two most maligned players become big heroes.

    Since the AS game he has cut his ERA by 2.50
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from MarstanJr. Show MarstanJr's posts

    Re: Lackey and Crawford,,,the two most maligned players become big heroes.



    If Patrick Henry thought that taxation without representation was bad, he should see how bad it is with representation.




    "President Ronald Reagan increased the debt ceiling eighteen times in eight years," Durbin said on a local Chicago Fox TV affiliate Friday morning, although Reagan increased the debt ceiling only seventeen times. "Never once did we face this economic crisis with the threat that perhaps we wouldn't extend the debt ceiling."

    At a press conference on Wednesday, Rep. Donna Edwards (D-Md.) said that under Reagan the limit was increased "without controversy."

    "And it was done 17 times, I think, under President Reagan without controversy, and so I continue to look forward to the leadership of the president to make sure that we meet our full faith and credit of the United States and our obligations by raising the debt ceiling," Edwards said.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Lackey and Crawford,,,the two most maligned players become big heroes.

    In Response to Re: Lackey and Crawford,,,the two most maligned players become big heroes.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Lackey and Crawford,,,the two most maligned players become big heroes. : ram, I think John is what we see and it probably won't change much pitching more games against AL East teams. If Bedard does well and Theo decides to resign him a rotation of Josh, Jon, John, Clay and Eric wouldn't be too shabby.  If Miller or Doubront improve Bedard probably wouldn't be back regardless but that remains to be seen.  I think we all "including myself" need to get over the fact John was really paid to be our #3.
    Posted by craze4sox[/QUOTE]

    Well if the Sox were as high on Buchholz as some on this board were, thinking he as easily become a #2 or 3 starter as soon as last season, then Lackey was paid like a #2 to be a #4. With Dice-K, Lester and Buch being paid like #3-4-5 guys Lackey's first 3 seasons under contract with us, we could afford to pay John like a #2.

    He pitched like a #3 last year (a #2 on the worst 15 teams in the game) and has pitched like he didn't belong in the game for 1/2 this season (elbow mainly to blame?) and like a #3 the other half of this season.

    So you are right, Sox fans should get over asking for #2 pitcher performace from John just b/c he is paid like one when we have co-aces and an injured #3 starter he is super cheap better than him when healthy.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Lackey and Crawford,,,the two most maligned players become big heroes.

    You are right, he is what he is.

    Take out the one awful game against TB a month ago and he has given up 33 runs in 69 innings.

    Thats easy math, 1 run every 3 innings. An ERA of 3.00. So in 11 of his last 12 starts (since he started getting healthy) his avg game has been to pitch past the 6th inning and give up 3 runs. He is 8-3 in that stretch.

    He is a career 4.00 ERA 1.33 WHIP guy. I'd like to see him finish as strong as these last 2 months have been then string together a couple of 3.75 ERA, 1.2 WHIP seasons where he gets us 15-17 wins. That would easily earn him 15.25 million per IMO.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from MarstanJr. Show MarstanJr's posts

    Re: Lackey and Crawford,,,the two most maligned players become big heroes.

    In Response to Lackey and Crawford,,,the two most maligned players become big heroes.:
    [QUOTE]Funny how things work out. Anyone ashamed of their comments?
    Posted by ZILLAGOD[/QUOTE]

    You seem to be wearing a new hat in recent days. You seem more mellow, tolerant, and loyal than what was normal for you previously. You have gone from a pot stirrer to an appeaser or moderator. It is a welcomed change for the forum.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from softylaw. Show softylaw's posts

    Re: Lackey and Crawford,,,the two most maligned players become big heroes.

    I agree with Softy on Craw not getting his due

    You are never supposed to agree with a "racist hating homophobe";)

    Pink hats on here only give due to team pet since 2007.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Lackey and Crawford,,,the two most maligned players become big heroes.

    Zillagod how does one or even a few games turn them into hero's? Both have been so bad you actually have to wait until the end of 2011 before giving them such a positive grade.
     
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