Lackey is an issue

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    The numbers don't lie, but can mislead.  The Sox started the season 2-10, but recovered.  Last year and 2009 Ortiz was horrible early on and recovered and so were some pitchers.  Heck, right now Papelbon's ERA is over 4, which he got from a couple of bad innings, but he is still a good closer. 

    Lackey's ERA was mostly accumulated via horrible starts before he went on the DL, but since then he is looked at least decent in his first three starts.  And today he started out OK, but seems to have been derailed by the rain delay.

    I am not a Lackey fan or booster, but do believe that it's too early to write him off. 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Brian1976. Show Brian1976's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    He went from good/decent in Anaheim to terrible in Boston.  Plus his attitude after a missed play by a teammate sucks.  Other than that he's amazing.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    In Response to Re: Lackey is an issue:
    [QUOTE]I'm not pretending to be a GM or that I evaluated him as closely as I hope the Sox did before signing him. I didn't watch a lot of Angels games until the playoffs, and only that Lackey was their best pitcher. But I remember two things about him. 1) The Sox owned him. Every time they'd meet in the playoffs, there would be some degree of hype for his starts because he's their toughest pitcher. And the Sox would tend to take care of him easily. 2) This is a reach, but I played in a fairly deep yahoo fantasy baseball league one year. I was weak in pitcher and couldn't believe my luck when Lackey was on waivers. I thought I pulled one over on everyone and waited for the compliments on my awesome waiver pick up. Then I looked at his numbers and was shocked. He really didn't seem like much of an ace at all. And nobody cared that I picked up John Lackey. And while I got the odd win out of him, he killed my era. Again, not that any professional team should make decisions based on fantasy baseball, but as a fan who didn't follow him much, what I knew about him didn't really scream "ace". I was hoping for a bit of "he'll play better on a stronger team" when they signed him, but that hasn't happened. If anything he's been worse. Even if you ignore the money, he's at best right now a capable 5th starter, and not always so capable. He's a 5th starter in the sense that you know it's going to be an uphill battle and probably odds are you won't win, but if he has a better than usual day and your batters do the same, you can win.
    Posted by Modano09[/QUOTE]

    Except in the Angels last 3-game sweep of Boston in the ALDS when Lackey outpitched Beckett. But hey, let's not facts get in the way of an argument.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    In Response to Re: Lackey is an issue:
    [QUOTE]I just don't see anything to back up defending him. Aside from the odd start here and there, he can't pitch deep into a game. The 6th is a long day for him. He's also typically going to give up 4 runs. A good game for him is 3 runs, a decent one is 4, and a bad day can be 5 or 6, again likely in 5 or 6 innings. That puts a lot of pressure on everyone else. The offense has to score a lot of runs, the bullpen has to be ready to eat up 3 or 4 innings.  This is how it is with Lackey, more times than not. You can almost depend on 4 runs given up and 6 innings. Ignoring the money he's being paid to do that, you can survive on that from a 5th starter, but would you want him pitching an important playoff game? I sure wouldn't. And it's not like his pre-Boston career gives you a lot of faith in him either. I'd also like to know how he is in the clubhouse. He seems to have an attitude when his teammates make a mistake, or don't get to a ball he thinks they should have, or don't make a play they probably couldn't make but he needs them to make to save his own behind....and he shot his mouth off about the Sox when they eliminated the Angels in 2009. The Sox weren't the better team, he was annoyed the Pedroia celebrated a double off the monster because he would have been an out anywhere else, Tori Hunter messed up and cost them the game...He seems like a guy who just can't back up his words and then either passes the blame on to others or gets defensive when others don't agree that he's not as bad as his numbers and performances suggest he is.
    Posted by Modano09[/QUOTE]When folks go off on players they some times just throw the kitchen sink at the player. John Lackey in 2010 led the team in IP with 215.

    And by the way while his W-L in post season is not good, that in part is a reflection of the Angels not matching up well against post season opponents. He has a respectable 3.12 ERA.

    He is a twist with all the faces and body language when a teammate doesn't make a play and I can't say that I like it.

    He had a below expectations 2010 where he went 14-11 and the stats behind it confirm it wasn't a quality year. He has had an awful start to 2011 that includes some horrible starts, an injury and serious family health issues at home.

    Can't we just leave it at that?
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    All of Lackey's peripheral stats show he has been in decline for years.   

    As I have read and quoted, Lackey could alter his mechanics or develop a good cutter and be effective again, but the way the numbers are trending is ominous. 

    ( 2005, '06,...,'11 )
    Swing and miss % 10.6, 9.7, 8.9, 8.6, 8.6, 7.0, 6.2

    Contact %: 76.5, 79.4, 80.3, 81.5, 80.3, 83.7, 84.8

    These numbers don't include his last couple of starts (not that they would look better).  There are those who think a pitcher can be effective with out swing and miss stuff, maybe but it is rare and Lackey is not Jim Palmer.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from joyceand. Show joyceand's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    In Response to Re: Lackey is an issue:
    [QUOTE] spot on, he sucks end of story
    Posted by fourrings[/QUOTE]
    That says it all.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from cpjohn1. Show cpjohn1's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    In Response to Re: Lackey is an issue:
    [QUOTE] 2) This is a reach, but I played in a fairly deep yahoo fantasy baseball league one year. I was weak in pitcher and couldn't believe my luck when Lackey was on waivers. I thought I pulled one over on everyone and waited for the compliments on my awesome waiver pick up. Then I looked at his numbers and was shocked. He really didn't seem like much of an ace at all. And nobody cared that I picked up John Lackey. And while I got the odd win out of him, he killed my era.[/QUOTE]

    LMAO!  I won't tell you what Felger said about people who had Lackey on their fantasy team.Laughing
     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter1. Show parhunter1's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    max brings some sensible prespective to the discussion.  Lackey is also trying to pitch with a bad elbow.  I think that if his next two starts also include 4+ earned runs, and no quality starts, he should go on the DL and get his elbow fixed with surgery.  That is the best chance for the Sox to get the most out of his contract, IMO.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    real disappointing that's for sure...

    he's become JD Drew redux...

    thank goodness we have reddick and wake/miller /aceves - i dont care what we are paying him - if I were Tito I would send him to the pen for long relief for a month or two or fitness/attitude adjustment
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    In Response to Re: Lackey is an issue:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Lackey is an issue : When folks go off on players they some times just throw the kitchen sink at the player. John Lackey in 2010 led the team in IP with 215. And by the way while his W-L in post season is not good, that in part is a reflection of the Angels not matching up well against post season opponents. He has a respectable 3.12 ERA. He is a twist with all the faces and body language when a teammate doesn't make a play and I can't say that I like it. He had a below expectations 2010 where he went 14-11 and the stats behind it confirm it wasn't a quality year. He has had an awful start to 2011 that includes some horrible starts, an injury and serious family health issues at home. Can't we just leave it at that?
    Posted by fivekatz[/QUOTE]

    why cant you just leave it at this - he is a failure and doesnt deserve to start for this team???? is his starting spot a birthright? he shouldnt be pitching unless its long relief/mop up duty

    and i have never been a lackey hater - but he is terrible and hurting us in the standings in 2011
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Modano09. Show Modano09's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    In Response to Re: Lackey is an issue:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Lackey is an issue : Except in the Angels last 3-game sweep of Boston in the ALDS when Lackey outpitched Beckett. But hey, let's not facts get in the way of an argument.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    It was Lester...and he performed well in one game? I'm sure there's a lot of guys who have beaten Lester head to head once or twice, that doesn't make that performance the norm. Lackey's come up short much more than he's come up big.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    i was just saying that the Sox owned a lot of guys until that pathetic 3-game sweep to the Halos. But I'm not advocating Lackey except he isn't as bad as he's been made out to be here.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from OscarGamble. Show OscarGamble's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    Lackey's ERA is pretty much undefendable at this point. But I do believe they need to stay w/ him (and Drew) and see if they can work things out. It wouldn't be the first time a veteran has stunk it up the first half only to rebound later in the year.
    He's just brutal to watch and the 38 minute rain delay certainly didn't help cuz he looked clueless from the moment he walked that first batter on 4 pitches in the 4th.
    With Drew, the only thing RS fans agreed on 4.5 years ago is he'd never be worth the money. That proved to be true but I do think he's solid defensively (in a difficult RF) and gets on base with some regularity. It's scary now though because his swing is out of sorts like I've never seen before. These half cuts that he's taking of late; he's just in a bad way.
    The team has been able to put up W's without their contributions to this point so just ride it out for another couple weeks with those two then reassess.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac32. Show pinstripezac32's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    In Response to Re: Lackey is an issue:
    [QUOTE]The numbers don't lie, but can mislead.  The Sox started the season 2-10, but recovered.  Last year and 2009 Ortiz was horrible early on and recovered and so were some pitchers.  Heck, right now Papelbon's ERA is over 4, which he got from a couple of bad innings, but he is still a good closer.  Lackey's ERA was mostly accumulated via horrible starts before he went on the DL, but since then he is looked at least decent in his first three starts.  And today he started out OK, but seems to have been derailed by the rain delay. I am not a Lackey fan or booster, but do believe that it's too early to write him off. 
    Posted by maxbialystock[/QUOTE]



    I'm with max on this one

    I don't think you count a game like this in the rain

    and so far he has been good since coming back from DL


    then again I thought he had a pretty good yr last yr

    IMO it was some fans expectations that were the problem
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from 86redsox. Show 86redsox's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    ....last night with the 'ol "stare at my bat" instead of running to 1st on the 3rd strike/passed ball.

    C'mon.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from antiqueman1. Show antiqueman1's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    Time to eat some contract and move this guy. I would rather see our young talent go out and pitch. Can't get any worse. He is just not even close to worth his contract. But I would still rather eat part of it. It is really hard to watch this guy pitch game after game. You can guarantee 4-5 runs. And that does put lots of pressure on the bats as someone above stated. Give the kids a chance to pitch and dump this guy. 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    In Response to Re: Lackey is an issue:
    [QUOTE]Time to eat some contract and move this guy. I would rather see our young talent go out and pitch. Can't get any worse. He is just not even close to worth his contract. But I would still rather eat part of it. It is really hard to watch this guy pitch game after game. You can guarantee 4-5 runs. And that does put lots of pressure on the bats as someone above stated. Give the kids a chance to pitch and dump this guy. 
    Posted by antiqueman1[/QUOTE]

    I just can't see us allowing another three years of this with Lackey.  Some pitchers are simply better than others under pressure.  Dice and Lackey are not two of them.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from fancy-shamanski. Show fancy-shamanski's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    Lets be honest, Lackeys numbers before he came to the sox were pretty decent.  While he never won a ton of games he always had a good era.  Now his era has sky-rocketed, and he looks worse than dice-k. 
    You can't fully blame theo for this.  The guy was much better before he came to the sox and had a decent track record, once here he has stunk.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    ...until things change, you're unfortunately correct.

      The presumption almost everywhere when he signed was that he'd make the staff one of the dominant ones in the bigs.

      He did not pitch pretty last year,  but he was still effective over all.  The case against him easily enflames.  The case for him takes more of a level head to accept.

      He still has a long time to get his mojo going ....
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    In Response to Re: Lackey is an issue:
    [QUOTE]...until things change, you're unfortunately correct.   The presumption almost everywhere when he signed was that he'd make the staff one of the dominant ones in the bigs.   He did not pitch pretty last year,  but he was still effective over all.  The case against him easily enflames.  The case for him takes more of a level head to accept.   He still has a long time to get his mojo going ....
    Posted by SinceYaz[/QUOTE]

    Absolutely right but what if he doesn't?  Do you try and trade him, or does he turn out to be our next Dice K?
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    This may be one of those "Sox subsidize the contract for next number of years" and trade him scenarios. Pathetically enough we can afford it and hey, Lugo is off the books, why not bankroll someone else? 

    " just can't see us allowing another three years of this with Lackey.  Some pitchers are simply better than others under pressure.  Dice and Lackey are not two of them."

    Hmm well for the Red Sox Dice has a far superior resume to Lackey. Though I think Dice has largely lost it now.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from jrh1194. Show jrh1194's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    In Response to Re: Lackey is an issue:
    [QUOTE]Time to eat some contract and move this guy. I would rather see our young talent go out and pitch. Can't get any worse. He is just not even close to worth his contract. But I would still rather eat part of it. It is really hard to watch this guy pitch game after game. You can guarantee 4-5 runs. And that does put lots of pressure on the bats as someone above stated. Give the kids a chance to pitch and dump this guy. 
    Posted by antiqueman1[/QUOTE]

    Nice idea. But really, what other team would want him????
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from HankukSox. Show HankukSox's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    In Response to Re: Lackey is an issue:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Lackey is an issue : Absolutely right but what if he doesn't?  Do you try and trade him, or does he turn out to be our next Dice K?
    Posted by craze4sox[/QUOTE]

    With pitchers who seriously underperform the Dice-K example tends to be the most usual.  Look at Zito, the giants are still stuck with him, or Kazmir who the Angels finally had to simply release, or Pavano back in the day with the Yanks.  Or even one of the worst of all, Hampton with the Braves, who was a lodestone around their necks for years.  So my hope is that he simply gets it together, because there really are not many, if any, other options.  Hoiwever much you mean scream DFA him, or send him to the minors, it just doesn't work that way.  Worst case scenerio is finding a way to minimalize him, but still having to carry that weight.  So let's hope he turns it around.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from lifelongsoxdawg. Show lifelongsoxdawg's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    I'm fed up with people defending Lackey. He cannot compete in the AL East. He can't even beat one of the worse teams in the NL. If ordinary fans can see he has no future with the Red Sox, why can't management. Face it Theo, you made a huge blunder when you signed Lackey. So now, suck it up and give up the notion that he's going to turn it around and admit you blew it. I have been watching Lackey on the practice field and in the dugout as well as the bullpen. He doesn't appear to be taking his job seriously. His actions and body language give the appearance that he is there to just have a good time and he has a ho hum attitude. He doesn't have a competitive spirt. He is just there for the ride.

    All he is doing is filling a void and I for one will no longer attend a game or no longer watch when he is in the lineup.  I challenge other Red Sox fans to boycott any games that Lackey pitches in and in doing so, maybe management will get the message. GET RID OF LACKEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     

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