Lackey is an issue

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

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    [QUOTE]I'm fed up with people defending Lackey. He cannot compete in the AL East. He can't even beat one of the worse teams in the NL. If ordinary fans can see he has no future with the Red Sox, why can't management. Face it Theo, you made a huge blunder when you signed Lackey. So now, suck it up and give up the notion that he's going to turn it around and admit you blew it. I have been watching Lackey on the practice field and in the dugout as well as the bullpen. He doesn't appear to be taking his job seriously. His actions and body language give the appearance that he is there to just have a good time and he has a ho hum attitude. He doesn't have a competitive spirt. He is just there for the ride. All he is doing is filling a void and I for one will no longer attend a game or no longer watch when he is in the lineup.  I challenge other Red Sox fans to boycott any games that Lackey pitches in and in doing so, maybe management will get the message. GET RID OF LACKEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Posted by lifelongsoxdawg[/QUOTE]

    Pitchers like Dice before the season ending injury and Lackey would be considered an upgrade on many teams.  10mil is very affordable for a starting pitcher to some teams.  We Sox fans have been a bit spoiled with pitchers like Beck, Jon and Clay in the rotation.  However, if pitchers like Aceves or Miller look better than Lackey during most of their starts I would try and move Lackey if he doesn't improve.

    He could still turn it around I guess
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from aussiewill. Show aussiewill's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    Forgetaboutit Slackey will be here long after Ireland Spain Portugal and Greece go broke. He stinks full stop . Never should have been signed in the first place. Big ball park pitcher from the mild mild west. heck the Angels knew exactly what they were doing. Just like the Dodgers knew exactly what they were doing when They let J.D.Drew walk. Let Theo have em he will sign anybody.

    Saying that he probably should not have gone out after sitting for 40 minutes. Are you surprised by that, Tito left Aceves in there yesterday after he walked 5 straight hitters. Two throw away Tito games in a row.
     
    Bad statistic, the Sox are 1-28 if trailing at  the start of the eighth inning. Maybe Tito doesn't know that. They score first and they win, they score second and its anybody's game.

    Don't get the wrong impression, I think Tito is the best big game manager in MLB. But I also think he is one of the worst small game managers in MLB. Guess you can't have it both ways.

    You look at that lineup Ellsbury Pedroia AGon Youk Papi . then the trouble starts
    any of those 5 are slumping , the offence is in trouble. Lot of pressure on those five batters. Once past them you can see the Emperor has very little clothing on.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    I'll be the first to admit I loved the Lackey signing. Obviously we overpaid for him, but I thought he'd be a solid No. 3 for years to come. Clearly, it hasn'tworked out that way.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from thirtysomething. Show thirtysomething's posts

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    Before we trade Lackey, let's first make sure we have at least six (if not seven) solid starters for the rotation. Aceves doesn't fill me with confidence after that five-walk inning yesterday, though I suppose he could still take a spot start.

    Five SP is never enough.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    This thread continues to amaze me. 

    So, once again, a few facts.

    Yes, his ERA is horrible, maybe the worst in MLB. 

    But.  Most of that is from April and May, and then he went on the DL. 

    Since he returned from the DL, he has started four games.  Game one against the Athletics:  5.2 innings, 3 runs.  Game two against the Blue Jays:  6 innings and 4 runs.  Game three against the Brewers:  8 innings and and 4 runs.  Those are three decent starts:  an average of 6.5 innings and an ERA of 4.68. And, while the Athletics don't score many runs, the Blue Jays and Brewers are 7th and 10th in MLB in scoring--both in the top third. 

    Game four:  3.1 innings and 5 runs against the non-hitting Padres--pretty bad.  But 4 of the 5 runs happened in the 4th inning after the 38 minute rain delay and when it was still drizzling.  Before the 4th he gave up 1 run in 3 innings, which is fine.  Given that in the 4th he walked 2 or 3, hit 2, and had a WP, I think it's pretty obvious the rain changed things.  He clearly had lost control of the baseball, either because of the delay or because it was still drizzling and that affected his grip.  Worth noting:  the Padres got those 4 runs without really hitting Lackey.  That got a hit off of a sacrifice bunt that couldn't be fielded and a clean single.  Everything else came from Lackey's wildness.    

    I am not saying that Lackey should be a guaranteed starter for the rest of the season, but am saying that the DL seemed to produce good results and that today was an anomaly.   Were I the Sox, based on the evidence of all four starts, I would continue to start him.  

    That said, I think the DL could well loom ahead for Lackey.  Maybe he needs his elbow fixed.  Maybe he just needs time away from the Sox and with his family.  Maybe he just can't hack it in Boston.   But for now--and despite this thread--I think the jury is still out.  They are leaning toward a guilty verdict, but aren't there yet.  Maybe Lackey needs Henry Fonda (juror #8 in Twelve Angry Men) in there fighting for him.  Or maybe I'm Henry Fonda. 
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Goofywocky. Show Goofywocky's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    Time for both the ShelLackeynator and the Wheelinator to be gone
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    In Response to Re: Lackey is an issue:
    [QUOTE]Lets be honest, Lackeys numbers before he came to the sox were pretty decent.  While he never won a ton of games he always had a good era.  Now his era has sky-rocketed, and he looks worse than dice-k.  You can't fully blame theo for this.  The guy was much better before he came to the sox and had a decent track record, once here he has stunk.
    Posted by fancy-shamanski[/QUOTE]

    they play the al west, and he was there at a time when both texas and mariners were quite bad.

    someone pointed out that the sox owned him. i also think his era is deceiving. when you look at his ba stats you'll notice that he does really well against so so hitters but good hitters always owned him.

    lastly, when you look at his pitches, even on tv, there is nothing extraordinary about any of his pitches. his fastball is above 90 but they look really flat (maybe it looks different in person, but i doubt). his breaking balls don't break sharply. and from what i can recall about him when he played for the angels, his pitches have always been like that. i always wondered how he was an ace with no special pitch.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Modano09. Show Modano09's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue


    On the DL stint...did they ever say what that was about? It was said to be a bit physical, a bit personal, a bit just to give him a chance to regroup...it didn't sound as if he had a clear injury hindering his performance as it was him being horrible and them giving him time off to try to get his head together. I'm sure he had some sort of nagging pain, etc, but I doubt it was anything that'd sideline him if he wasn't playing as poorly as he was.

    I think by now we know what we're going to get from him. He'll give up 4 and labour through 5. That's a typical start for him.  

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    Some pitchers are simply better than others under pressure.  Dice and Lackey are not two of them.

    I'm not defending Lackey. I looks awful right now, but the guy has been pretty good "under pressure" in the past. I'd say playoff games are more pressure than games in June.

    Lackey overall: ERA 3.99 / WHIP 1.328
    Lackey playoffs: ERA 3.12 / WHIP 1.333 in 78 IP
    Against some great offensive opponents:
    Bos  27.0 IP
    NYY 26.2 IP
    SFG in 2002 12.1 IP
    MN  in  2002   7.0 IP
    CWS in 2005  5.0 IP
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    In Response to Re: Lackey is an issue:
    [QUOTE]How was he considered the "Ace" of the Angel staff? The guy is truly a below average 5th starter at best. He has shown to be a very bad fit with the Red Sox and needs to go away some how, although I know his contract is such and performances with us preclude ever being able to get rid of him. I have him on a fantasy team and frankly and ready to simply drop him to pick up some WW scum....it has gotten that bad. Yes, I would much rather have Wake on the mound than this guy. BTW, here comes one of our patented losing streaks we have all experienced over the years.

    Ye of little confidence and lack of perspective.  You're going to extrapolate a pattern based on the last two games?  If I heard you talking like that next to me at a game in Fenway, I'd have to exercise restraint not to gag you with a red sock. 

    The Stanks get back in first as we lose 6 or 7 in a row, then we turn it around and win 8 straight to get back in the race. Part and parcel of being a Red Sox fan.

    You should be thankful you have it so well that you can expect this team to be in the race.

    It is still early, but Lackey is in fact a HUGE concern.

    He is a concern mostly because of the amount of money the team has invested in him.  His poor performance doesn't preclude the Red Sox from making it to the playoffs and beyond.  Somehow they managed to get into first place already in the toughest division in baseball with Lackey performing about as poorly as he is going to perform.  He is not likely to get worse (that would be difficult), and if he did, he'd be out the rotation eventually. 

    Posted by sindarin-erebor[/QUOTE]
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

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    [QUOTE]The numbers don't lie, but can mislead.  The Sox started the season 2-10, but recovered.  Last year and 2009 Ortiz was horrible early on and recovered and so were some pitchers.  Heck, right now Papelbon's ERA is over 4, which he got from a couple of bad innings, but he is still a good closer.  Lackey's ERA was mostly accumulated via horrible starts before he went on the DL, but since then he is looked at least decent in his first three starts.  And today he started out OK, but seems to have been derailed by the rain delay. I am not a Lackey fan or booster, but do believe that it's too early to write him off. 
    Posted by maxbialystock[/QUOTE]

    It's not only too early to write him off, but it's also a bit expensive to write him off.  Reasonable post, max, within this fiery storm of kneejerk overreaction. 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxPatsCelts1988. Show SoxPatsCelts1988's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    I'll be honest... He may be one of the worst free agent signings in MLB history.  That's honestly how bad he's been.  I haven't done the math but I'm assuming that his ERA in Boston has been 5.00+ which is truely pathetic for any pitcher over a year and a half span.  If this continues, throw him on the 60 day DL and tell him to try again in spring training next year.  This is just getting ridiculously out of hand.
     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    In Response to Re: Lackey is an issue:
    [QUOTE]Lets be honest, Lackeys numbers before he came to the sox were pretty decent.  While he never won a ton of games he always had a good era.  Now his era has sky-rocketed, and he looks worse than dice-k.  You can't fully blame theo for this.  The guy was much better before he came to the sox and had a decent track record, once here he has stunk.
    Posted by fancy-shamanski[/QUOTE]

    Decent? Maybe. Great? No way.  He never should have been signed, never ever.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from betterredthandead. Show betterredthandead's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    Lackey has been a bust. I urged not signing the player I called the classic prima donna. Oh well, will have to hope he's a solid bottom of the rotation retreaded tire, as Wastefield isn't going to cut it.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from aussiewill. Show aussiewill's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    The Angels play 81 games in the big Anaheim Stadium, the ball does not carry there at night. They play 19 games between Safeco Field and Oakland Alameda Coliseum . That's 100 games in pitchers ball parks  that leaves 62 games in other parks. Then take out Texas down to 52-53. So they play the big spending teams the Red Sox Yankees Detroit and The White Sox about 20 games on the road.

    Point being , Red Sox Gm's should not sign any Angel , Mariner, or A's pitchers , unless they can hit 95 mph( King Felix)  on the gun and after 5 innings. Or the pitcher in question has an ERA of 2.75 at the worst.  Pitching in the big parks in the mild mild west is worth at least 1 earned run per nine innings. So the 2.75 goes to 3.75 in the Bad Bad East.

    Lackey's fastball tops out at  92 mph  with very little movement, he has a decent slider , but he can't throw it every pitch. he has no splitter or Changeup to speak of. If he misses with the slider, Kaboom. They light him up.

    It's not Lackey's fault for taking the money, his signing came clearly out of the blue. Most Sox fans never saw Lackey on the Radar. Theo had a big crush on this guy. He must have had, if he looked at the facts  I just stated , along with Lackey's Stats , he wouldn't have touched him. He was not , and definitely is not , an exceptional talent, but Theo gave him exceptional talent money. Bad move, just like Crawford will prove to be a bad move.

    Big ballpark pitchers are different than big game pitchers (DAH) Signing hitters that have good numbers in pitchers parks, now that's a different story. AGON put up big numbers hitting in San Diego he will hit .340 hit 40 home runs , and average 125 RBIs' for the next seven years, playing 81 games a year in Fenway , on his way to Cooperstown.

    The only way Lackey will get to Cooperstown is on a Greyhound Bus and he will have to buy a ticket to get in. He's bad now and it ain't going to get any better, unless he gets 4 mph on his fastball and comes up with a changeup. Fat Chance of those two happening. He will be on the DL as soon as Buchholtz comes back. The rotation will be:
    Beckett , Lester, Buchholz , Wakefield and Miller.and throw in Aceves when needed. Lackey should have been pulled after he walked a batter and hit the next one in the fourth. It was obvious that, during the 40 minute rain delay he had cooled down and lost his stuff, not uncommon. Tito wouldn't have sent Beckett back out there, or Lester , I wager. But Lackey, with no where near the talent of those two Tito sends him out, and leaves him there till he gives up 4 runs. Game over. Lousy pitching and lousy managing , bad combination.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    I just never got over his whining about how ""We lost to a team that's not better than us. We are a better team than they are." in his summary of the Red Sox/Angles play-off series in 2008 (I believe 2008).

    Then in 2009 all I heard from people on this forum is how tough lackey was against us, how great it would be to get him.... say what?

    Lackey came here, flails and fails, and all we hear is about how fans don't like him always blaming everyone but himself.

    What did you (the majority-not me) expect?
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from betterredthandead. Show betterredthandead's posts

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    For the most part, I agree. However, Wastefield has no business in the rotation, even as bad as Lackey is. Lackey is capable of pitching a decent game against the better offenses in the league, and is also capable of going 5 or 6 innings and not allowing more than 3 or 4 runs in a lot of his starts. The issue is that he has to be managed for what he is, the bottom half of the rotation guy who requires the pen to work overtime in many of his starts. A manager just can't leave this guy in for that extra inning and one more batter mentality when he clearly doesn't have it or is marginal through 3 or 4 innings. That is the time to call the middle pen arms to duty and mix and match.

    Either Aceves, Miller or Doubrant is going to have to be the matchup baby sitter for Slackey and which ever one of those 3 goes into the rotation. Thus, for the middle man, the rotation has to be set up to match the middle man's watch as follows:

    Lester  (a horse who seldom needs a baby sitter)
    Slackey (constant baby sitter) Aceves/Miller/Doubrant
    Beckett (this year, seldom needs a baby sitter)
    Buch (Sometimes needs a baby sitter) Aceves/Miller/Doubrant
    Miller/Doubrant/Aceves    Aceves/Doubrant/Miller

    There are 3 pitchers who are truly capable of handling a starter's role. More than most teams have.  The pen must have two long guys who are matched up for the 2 bottom rotation guys and the occasional need to come in for Buch on short duty.

    There is no way that Wakefield can handle either a pen role or a starter's role. I don't care what he and his 4.26 ERA have been to date. Anyone who claims otherwise hasn't been paying attention to the last 2 years.  

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    In Response to Re: Lackey is an issue:
    [QUOTE]For the most part, I agree. However, Wastefield has no business in the rotation, even as bad as Lackey is. Lackey is capable of pitching a decent game against the better offenses in the league, and is also capable of going 5 or 6 innings and not allowing more than 3 or 4 runs in a lot of his starts. The issue is that he has to be managed for what he is, the bottom half of the rotation guy who requires the pen to work overtime in many of his starts. A manager just can't leave this guy in for that extra inning and one more batter mentality when he clearly doesn't have it or is marginal through 3 or 4 innings. That is the time to call the middle pen arms to duty and mix and match. Either Aceves, Miller or Doubrant is going to have to be the matchup baby sitter for Slackey and which ever one of those 3 goes into the rotation. Thus, for the middle man, the rotation has to be set up to match the middle man's watch as follows: Lester  (a horse who seldom needs a baby sitter) Slackey (constant baby sitter) Aceves/Miller/Doubrant Beckett (this year, seldom needs a baby sitter) Buch (Sometimes needs a baby sitter) Aceves/Miller/Doubrant Miller/Doubrant/Aceves    Aceves/Doubrant/Miller There are 3 pitchers who are truly capable of handling a starter's role. More than most teams have.  The pen must have two long guys who are matched up for the 2 bottom rotation guys and the occasional need to come in for Buch on short duty. There is no way that Wakefield can handle either a pen role or a starter's role. I don't care what he and his 4.26 ERA have been to date. Anyone who claims otherwise hasn't been paying attention to the last 2 years.  
    Posted by betterredthandead[/QUOTE]

    Wake has been injured, starting in 09' and had back surgery..you know this and its your only defense and a poor one at that..How has he done THIS YEAR SOFTY, 2011? Just answer THAT ONE question..Look at the numbers and if you have the mental capacity to climb over your own ego, you would realize, as a true Sox fan would, Wake has been a savior for the Sox this year...
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    betterdeadthanred surprisingly makes some sense on Lackey, but still has a blind spot where Wakefield is concerned.

    Wake is 4th on the team in innings pitched despite only starting 8 games, 4 of which were "quality starts."  Buchholz started 14 games, of which 6 were quality starts, and Lackey started 11 with 3 quality starts.  Of the five starters, including Wakefield but not includingMatsuzaka, Aceves or Miller, Wakefield's overall ERA (including relieving) of 4.26 is higher than the big three (Beckett, Lester, and Buchholz), but much lower than Lackey's 7+.  As for WHIP, only Beckett, among the starters, has a better WHIP than Wakefield's 1.19.  Statistically, you can make a much better case for Wakefield as a starter than you can for Lackey or maybe even Buchholz, whose back problem may be more significant than we have assumed it to be. 

    But here's the best thing about Wakefield.  He throws strikes, and he doesn't dawdle on the mound.  His teammates must love that.  The knuckler can sometimes be a nightmare for Salty (or Tek), but it makes Wake the most decisive and businesslike pitcher on the team, and the fielders benefit from that. 
    Plus count me in as a fan of someone who at age 44 still has a goal--he wants to tie or set the Sox record for most wins.  To do that, he has to accept a salary way, way below Lackey's or Beckett's (and now lower than Buchholz or Lester), and he has to accept being used as a reliever.  In other words, he gets the leftovers.  But right now he is thriving on leftovers. 
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    Moon has a post I read recently on Wakes ERA.. If you take out the relief ERA for Wake and only his starting stats..youd be surprised how much better his stats are..that ,to me, is telling of his starts this season..It could be argued that Wake has been one of, if not the most valuable pitcher for the Sox this year...He has been able to step up big time this year for the Sox, and Im guessing that the back surgery had something to do with it..How can you not cheer for a guy thats helping your team win? unless your softy, of course..
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxmeister. Show soxmeister's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    Lackey is a good 5th starter right now ... if Miller pans out and stays, maybe Wake can spell Lackey and let him rest.  Doesn't Lackey have a slight tear in an arm tendon? 
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    What soxmeister, what? - "a good 5th starter right now" ???  So a 7+ era and according to you a slight tear in a tendon makes Lackey a good 5th starter?

    We all have our opinions but  gee wiz.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Diamondtalk. Show Diamondtalk's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    No team in baseball is dumb enough to take Lackey and his salary unless John Henry eats a large chunk of it.    Sadly, he's signed through 2014.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from --The-Babe----. Show --The-Babe----'s posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    In Response to Re: Lackey is an issue:
    [QUOTE]I'll be honest... He may be one of the worst free agent signings in MLB history.  That's honestly how bad he's been.  I haven't done the math but I'm assuming that his ERA in Boston has been 5.00+ which is truely pathetic for any pitcher over a year and a half span.  If this continues, throw him on the 60 day DL and tell him to try again in spring training next year.  This is just getting ridiculously out of hand.

    Posted by SoxPatsCelts1988[/QUOTE]

    He's no Burnett, that's for sure!

     

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