Lackey is an issue

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Modano09. Show Modano09's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    In Response to Re: Lackey is an issue:
    [QUOTE]I just never got over his whining about how " "We lost to a team that's not better than us. We are a better team than they are. " in his summary of the Red Sox/Angles play-off series in 2008 (I believe 2008). Then in 2009 all I heard from people on this forum is how tough lackey was against us, how great it would be to get him.... say what? Lackey came here, flails and fails, and all we hear is about how fans don't like him always blaming everyone but himself. What did you (the majority-not me) expect?
    Posted by BurritoT[/QUOTE]

    That's how I felt to. The Sox owned him, save for 2009, when they (Sox) weren't the team they were the year before. Everytime I'd watch Lackey in the playoffs, there would be somewhat of a hype before his start because he was the tough John Lackey, and the Sox would beat him. I was shocked at the money he was asking for, shocked he was considered an ace, and shocked at the money they gave him....but it's not my money so I really don't care what they pay anyone, bottom line is I didn't expect much more than a decent 4th starter out of him and he's hardly giving them that most days. There's plenty of bottom of the rotation guys in MLB or minor leaguers who can give them a 6 inning 4 runs allowed performance if that's all they're going to get from him...

    He'd be better suited for the NL, and when the time comes to eat his contract and send him on his way I expect that's where he'll end up, and he'll likely have better numbers because of it...
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from soups. Show soups's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    Lackey was lucky to have Daisuke is on this roster, because up until recently Daisuke hogged all of the bad press. 

    John Lackey is terrible in a Sox uni, as bad or worse than Daisuke.  So how come he gets so many free passes, but Daisuke never gets one word of respect from the press?  Daisuke's accomplished a lot more in his career in two countries than Lackey ever did with just the Angels.

    Overpriced, overpayed, overrated. 

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    soups, because Dice-K refused to speak English in the country paying him an enormous amount of money. Lackey should also stop speaking English.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from aussiewill. Show aussiewill's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    Lackey is lousy, he is a fly ball pitcher, obviously a few years ago in the Big Anaheim ball park , where the ball just dies out there in the cool heavy evening air , he had some success. He was younger , probably more fit. Even then his numbers were good at best and mediocre for the most part. Bad signing, and he will be here for a long time. He doesn't have the stuff full stop, and you just don't find it at 32 years of age.

    As for Wakefield, why are some people so down on him? He earns his money, he gets people out, they are lucky to have him, really. He will pass Cy Young and Roger Clemens as the all time  leader in victories in a Red Sox uniform. He is a good citizen in the community, he gives a lot of his time . Why the hate for Wake?
     
    I'd take Wakefield over Lackey seven days a week, and he is the oldest player in MLB.
     
    Knuckleballers historically get better with age. The greatest of them all Hoyt Wilhelm pitched his last game at 49 years of age. He could still get hitters out , even then. He just couldn't get off the mound and field the bunt, so they bunted him to death. Wake still fields very well, and the Knuckler is dancing better than ever. I love the guy.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    I really don't see Lackey ever being an effective pitcher for us.  I'm not sure if the guy is hurting but if there is an injury that requires surgery he should get it before ending up like Dice K.  I really hope Miller works out and both Wake and Aceves continue to give us some strong outings because Lackey just isn't helping our cause at this point.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from --the--yazzer. Show --the--yazzer's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    again, it's easy to blame the players for their mediocrity; the real blame is theo;
    no GM working today has a worse free agent signing track record than that bozo.
    if he wasn't john henry's adopted son, he would already be fired.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    In Response to Re: Lackey is an issue:
    [QUOTE]again, it's easy to blame the players for their mediocrity; the real blame is theo; no GM working today has a worse free agent signing track record than that bozo. if he wasn't john henry's adopted son, he would already be fired.
    Posted by --the--yazzer[/QUOTE]

    Theo has made his share of mistakes but we wouldn't have won two titles, or have such a strong organization today without him.  Guys like Cashman and Theo, who make a great deal of FA transactions will obviously make their share of good and bad decisions.  You can never look into the heart and soul of a person you are trying to sign. 

    Some players handle pressure better than others.  Then, you have those like Lugo, Crisp, Renteria, Clement, Lackey and even J.D. who have all had problems being comfortable in those situations.



     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    Since almost all top FA signings don't bring back "equal value", your point is well taken.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from crmn19. Show crmn19's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue



    Could he pitch better? probably.  Could he stop worrying about his wife's cancer? maybe not.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    In Response to Re: Lackey is an issue:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Lackey is an issue : Theo has made his share of mistakes but we wouldn't have won two titles, or have such a strong organization today without him.  Guys like Cashman and Theo, who make a great deal of FA transactions will obviously make their share of good and bad decisions.  You can never look into the heart and soul of a person you are trying to sign.  Some players handle pressure better than others.  Then, you have those like Lugo, Crisp, Renteria, Clement, Lackey and even J.D. who have all had problems being comfortable in those situations.
    Posted by craze4sox[/QUOTE]That's a broad brush and doesn't really represent the different situations correctly.

    Matt Clement signed and put up an all-star first half (10-2 ERA 3.85) in 2005. He then first got crushed in the head with a line shot back through the box and then suffered serious injury which was thought to be and treated as "dead arm" by the RS medical staff. Eventual a frustrated Clement went and saw Dr. Andrews who specializes in shoulder injury and it was found that not only did Matt have a torn rotor cuff but he also had a torn labrum. That effectively ended his professional baseball career.

    Renteria may have had issues in Boston, but it was one season that his offensive stats weren't that bad, it was his errors Aside from that he pretty much was the same player in 2005 he was in St Louis in 2004 (OPS .721 v. .728 - 70 RBI v. 72 RBI). The errors on the other hand were 30 though in his first two seasons in St. Louis he made 26 and 27. Lucchino was quick to trade Renteria in Epstein's absence and no one will ever know if Edgar may have had a bad year adjusting to what was the worst infield surface in the game at that time (Fenway's IF has since been reconstructed).

    History pretty much shows that Crisp and Lugo were who they were at that point in their careers in Boston. Their achievements upon leaving do not indicate that Boston as a venue was responsible for a temporary dip.

    JD Drew has actually aged well until this year, though one might suggest that Drew's bad 2007 was getting used to the market. But he certainly adapted and continued to play in 2008 and 2009 like JD Drew. He is just a player with high OPS, moderate HR production, moderate RBI and a steady defender.

    Out of all the guys you mention Lackey may be the one who is the most emotionally ill equipped to play in the city with 162 7th games of the World Series. But the claim that this is why guys do not perform to expectations is they can't handle Boston is over used. (in many cases it is as the fans expect they would not even the FO).

    Just my takes 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    Quality of stuff the biggest issue for John Lackey
    Brian MacPherson projo


    When John Lackey said in spring training he felt good about the way he'd pitched down the stretch last season, he wasn't blowing smoke. He really did pitch well down the stretch last season -- and it wasn't just his ERA.

    In the final 12 starts Lackey made in August and September, a span of 79 2/3 innings, he struck out 75 hitters and walked 22 -- a ratio of 3.41. He threw strikes 65 percent of the time. He got swings and misses on 9.2 percent of the pitches he threw, and he got 10 or more swings and misses in a game seven times.

    Lackey might be a pitch-to-contact pitcher, but no pitcher can be effective if he doesn't miss bats. Lackey missed bats down the stretch last season, just as he missed bats earlier in his career:

    2005: 10.6 percent swings and misses
    2006: 9.7 percent
    2007: 8.9 percent
    2008: 8.6 percent
    2009: 8.6 percent

    After a rough start to last season in the swings-and-misses category, he righted the ship late and figured out a way to miss bats again in August and September. It wasn't just a matter of lineups, either; he got 11 swings and misses in a late August start at Tampa Bay and 11 more swings and misses in his final start of the season against New York.

    So far this season, however, he's been unable to carry that momentum forward. He's elicited swings and misses on a career-worst 6.3 percent of pitches he's thrown, and he's elicited 10 or more swings and misses just twice -- including once during the 11-0 shellacking he absorbed at the hands of his old Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim team.

    His stuff just isn't fooling anyone. Opposing hitters are chasing pitches out of the zone less and swinging at pitches in the zone more, making more contact and hitting the ball harder. He's giving up line drives on 22.2 percent of his balls and play and fly balls on 41.4 percent of his balls in play, both the worst numbers he's seen in at least half a decade. He's getting more fly balls than ground balls for the first time in his career.

    His fastball has been terrible. His curveball has been terrible. His changeup has been terrible. The only pitch he's thrown with much effectiveness has been his slider, the pitch with which he's elicited 32 percent of his swings and misses this season. When he struck out Jesus Guzman after the first rain delay on Wednesday afternoon, it was on a slider in the dirt.

    As much as will be made -- and has been made -- about the way Lackey handles his disasters after the fact, the real issue is how he stops them from happening entirely. He's too important to the future of the Red Sox team -- and $45.75 million is too much money -- for him to be written off for the next three years.

    He has to figure out how to start fooling hitters and missing bats again

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from betterredthandead. Show betterredthandead's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    Wake has been a savior for the Sox this year...

    Folks, 4.26 ERA in 63 innings = savior
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    In Response to Re: Lackey is an issue:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Lackey is an issue : That's a broad brush and doesn't really represent the different situations correctly. Matt Clement signed and put up an all-star first half (10-2 ERA 3.85) in 2005. He then first got crushed in the head with a line shot back through the box and then suffered serious injury which was thought to be and treated as "dead arm" by the RS medical staff. Eventual a frustrated Clement went and saw Dr. Andrews who specializes in shoulder injury and it was found that not only did Matt have a torn rotor cuff but he also had a torn labrum. That effectively ended his professional baseball career. Renteria may have had issues in Boston, but it was one season that his offensive stats weren't that bad, it was his errors Aside from that he pretty much was the same player in 2005 he was in St Louis in 2004 (OPS .721 v. .728 - 70 RBI v. 72 RBI). The errors on the other hand were 30 though in his first two seasons in St. Louis he made 26 and 27. Lucchino was quick to trade Renteria in Epstein's absence and no one will ever know if Edgar may have had a bad year adjusting to what was the worst infield surface in the game at that time (Fenway's IF has since been reconstructed). History pretty much shows that Crisp and Lugo were who they were at that point in their careers in Boston. Their achievements upon leaving do not indicate that Boston as a venue was responsible for a temporary dip. JD Drew has actually aged well until this year, though one might suggest that Drew's bad 2007 was getting used to the market. But he certainly adapted and continued to play in 2008 and 2009 like JD Drew. He is just a player with high OPS, moderate HR production, moderate RBI and a steady defender. Out of all the guys you mention Lackey may be the one who is the most emotionally ill equipped to play in the city with 162 7th games of the World Series. But the claim that this is why guys do not perform to expectations is they can't handle Boston is over used. (in many cases it is as the fans expect they would not even the FO). Just my takes 
    Posted by fivekatz[/QUOTE]

    Points well taken fivekatz,

    My point was "under pressure" in Matts case it was PS play and pitching with runners on base.  People handle various situations differently whether it be the Post Season, tougher fan base, AL East, better hitters, or simply feeling the need to earn respect from a better supporting staff like Beck, Jon and Clay. 

    Even with his 18 and 11 record in Boston I believe Matt Clement had a combined ERA of 5.50 in two season so he had a lot of support from the offense.  He also hit 22 batters and compiled 16 WP.

    Matt Clement Post Season Stats - 15.2 innings
    8.62 ERA
    4 HRS,
    6 SO
    6 BB
    20 H 
    15 IP
    15 ER
    1.66 WHIP
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    In Response to Re: Lackey is an issue:
    [QUOTE]Wake has been a savior for the Sox this year ... Folks, 4.26 ERA in 63 innings = savior
    Posted by betterredthandead[/QUOTE]

    Wake is still better than Lackey
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    In Response to Re: Lackey is an issue:
    [QUOTE]I'll be the first to admit I loved the Lackey signing. Obviously we overpaid for him, but I thought he'd be a solid No. 3 for years to come. Clearly, it hasn'tworked out that way.
    Posted by LloydDobler[/QUOTE]

    i will fess up as well...i was looking at #2 even (depending josh's health)


    we was robbed!
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    In Response to Re: Lackey is an issue:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Lackey is an issue : i will fess up as well...i was looking at #2 even (depending josh's health) we was robbed!
    Posted by georom4[/QUOTE]

    I was banking on Lackey being a solid number #3 behind Clay and Jon when Beck was struggling.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from can-you-dig-it. Show can-you-dig-it's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    Lacky is still better than 80% of the yankee starters maybe 90%
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    In Response to Re: Lackey is an issue:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Lackey is an issue : Points well taken fivekatz, My point was "under pressure" in Matts case it was PS play and pitching with runners on base.  People handle various situations differently whether it be the Post Season, tougher fan base, AL East, better hitters, or simply feeling the need to earn respect from a better supporting staff like Beck, Jon and Clay.  Even with his 18 and 11 record in Boston I believe Matt Clement had a combined ERA of 5.50 in two season so he had a lot of support from the offense.  He also hit 22 batters and compiled 16 WP. Matt Clement Post Season Stats - 15.2 innings 8.62 ERA 4 HRS, 6 SO 6 BB 20 H  15 IP 15 ER 1.66 WHIP
    Posted by craze4sox[/QUOTE]He was already suffering from shoulder issues by late 2005. We will never know for sure but based on his start with the RS  and the expectations  they did not get to him. Those expectations were very high in that he was here filling in a rotation that had lost Pedro Martinez and Derek Lowe and was without Curt Schilling. I think suggests that Matt's issues were physical and not the market, the division or the league.

    Lackey's issues are probably physical as well. There is a steady pattern since he started having issues with his elbow of diminishing results. Epstein was betting on small sample sets, probably including how he handled us and the NYY in the 2009 post season. Most of the time specially with pitchers, it isn't that they player forgot how to play and really until 2008 it wasn't the depth of the AL East. Usually at the root of every decline in career production before the age of 33 is an injury that leaves the player diminished. It is why long term guaranteed deals are a risky but necessary evil for MLB teams looking to stay competitive every season. 

    Lackey he does not seem to have the temperament to go through the tough times in this tough market without it really getting to him. I get that. But if I had to bet the farm on it, I'd bet that Lackey's issues are nagging injury and diminished command from a depleted arm not Peter Abraham and to quote Keith Foulke, "Johnny from Burger King in right field."
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    In Response to Re: Lackey is an issue:
    [QUOTE]Lacky is still better than 80% of the yankee starters maybe 90%
    Posted by can-you-dig-it[/QUOTE]

    LOL right on Yogi Berra.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    In Response to Re: Lackey is an issue:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Lackey is an issue : He was already suffering from shoulder issues by late 2005. We will never know for sure but based on his start with the RS  and the expectations  they did not get to him. Those expectations were very high in that he was here filling in a rotation that had lost Pedro Martinez and Derek Lowe and was without Curt Schilling. I think suggests that Matt's issues were physical and not the market, the division or the league. Lackey's issues are probably physical as well. There is a steady pattern since he started having issues with his elbow of diminishing results. Epstein was betting on small sample sets, probably including how he handled us and the NYY in the 2009 post season. Most of the time specially with pitchers, it isn't that they player forgot how to play and really until 2008 it wasn't the depth of the AL East. Usually at the root of every decline in career production before the age of 33 is an injury that leaves the player diminished. It is why long term guaranteed deals are a risky but necessary evil for MLB teams looking to stay competitive every season.  Lackey he does not seem to have the temperament to go through the tough times in this tough market without it really getting to him. I get that. But if I had to bet the farm on it, I'd bet that Lackey's issues are nagging injury and diminished command from a depleted arm not Peter Abraham and to quote Keith Foulke, "Johnny from Burger King in right field."
    Posted by fivekatz[/QUOTE]

    Again, all good points fivekatz
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    Lackey has gone from bad to terrible.  An era of 4.40 last year was bad enough, but in the 7s.

    He must be hurt and trying to work through it.  He's not a good pitcher (certainly not worth the money) but he isn't usually this terrible bad.

    He should be able to have an ERA around 3.9.  Worse than what he put up on the West Coast, but that's to be expected since he has to face the Yanks so many times.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from betterredthandead. Show betterredthandead's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    Lackey is another MLPBA failure of consideration.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    In Response to Re: Lackey is an issue:
    [QUOTE]Lackey has gone from bad to terrible.  An era of 4.40 last year was bad enough, but in the 7s. He must be hurt and trying to work through it.  He's not a good pitcher (certainly not worth the money) but he isn't usually this terrible bad. He should be able to have an ERA around 3.9.  Worse than what he put up on the West Coast, but that's to be expected since he has to face the Yanks so many times.
    Posted by DirtyWaterLover[/QUOTE]Here's the twist, his career stats were worthy of the contract at the end of 2009. His contemparies were guys like AJ and Derek Lowe and their contracts are very similar.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    Lackey is going to pitch better in the second half of the season.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Lackey is an issue

    because it would be pretty hard to be any worse. 
     

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