Lackey is useless
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Re: Lackey is useless
posted at 9/5/2011 1:52 AM EDT
- harness
- Posts: 19880
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From Lackey or Wake? -
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Re: Lackey is useless
posted at 9/5/2011 3:02 AM EDT
- SinceYaz
- Posts: 5209
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Being realistic, it was very hard to watch him ... and the rest of the pitchers ... in yesterday's game.
What happens to this difficult game when good hitters get good swings on - unfortunately - fat pitches?
But now we know what it feels like when the remainder of the league sees us score in double figures 21 times ....
It's only fun for the winning side.
And no one wins all the time. -
Re: Lackey is useless
posted at 9/5/2011 3:44 AM EDT
- aussiewill
- Posts: 896
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Lackey has no location skills, most the time.If you watch Lester or Beckett , when he's right. He will miss the plate by 2-4 inches when he is trying to get a hitter swing at something out of the zone. In Lackey's case he is a foot or more off the plate, so he very seldom gets hitters to chase.
His stuff is fine, 93-94 FB decent curve and slider, needs a change up. But he doesn't locate, too many meatballs , and very seldom on the corners. He just is an ordinary pitcher getting number 1 or number 2 money. Big Ball park pitcher from the mild mild west, the ball doesn't carry in Anaheim at night, or Oakland, or Seattle.
Theo missed the boat totally on Lackey. Everyone was starting to say he's come back. B.S. his ERA is 6.00 , that's coming back. Pretty low standards, if that's coming back. -
Re: Lackey is useless
posted at 9/5/2011 4:08 AM EDT
- BurritoT
- Posts: 8051
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well-said -
Re: Lackey is useless
posted at 9/5/2011 6:12 AM EDT
- majormathew
- Posts: 2575
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Was theo bidding against himself when he signed Lackey?
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Re: Lackey is useless
posted at 9/5/2011 7:20 AM EDT
- aussiewill
- Posts: 896
- First: 5/6/2005
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In Response to Re: Lackey is useless:Was theo bidding against himself when he signed Lackey?
Posted by majormathew
Kind of like DiceK where Theo paid $50,000,001 for the negotiating rights. Next highest bid $39,000,000. So either Theo has too much money to play with, or all the other GM's are idiots.
With Lackey, unlike other FA signings, there were no rumblings about Lackey being on the radar, nor were there any rumblings about Crawford either. Like Theo was afraid the Yankees would sign them, so he backed up the brinks truck, when he was the only player in the market. Paranoia? Some symptoms there. Dice, KK and Lackey. A trend has developed. I rest my case. -
Re: Lackey is useless
posted at 9/5/2011 8:06 AM EDT
- WilcyMoore
- Posts: 224
- First: 7/15/2010
- Last: 7/23/2012
What's problematic is Lackey's career ERA of 5.31 at his current home ballpark with a 1.51 WHIP and opponents hitting .296 against him at Fenway. Those are the kinds of numbers you see from #5 starters all the time. Beckett's career ERA at Fenway is 4.26 which really separates the 2 pitchers who signed similar deals. One run a game at home is a huge disparity between 2 starting pitchers who have logged a lot of innings and that's what makes Beckett a number 2 and his counterpart a bottom of the rotation guy. Lackey pitched better than Beckett (injured??) last year and of course Beckett has pitched much better than Lackey this year. There "appears" to be upside with Beckett, but I don't think anyone right now can envision a similar metamorphosis coming from Lackey near term. At the end of the day, ya never know and change is inevitable both positive and negative. -
Re: Lackey is useless
posted at 9/5/2011 9:05 AM EDT
- craze4sox
- Posts: 3949
- First: 6/5/2011
- Last: 5/17/2013
In Response to Re: Lackey is useless:RS pitching ineptness will be their downfall in the playoffs this year. The boy GM has made too many bad decisions. Some might consider the Yankees and Rangers to be the two most important teams on the RS must win list. Red Sox 2, Yankees & Rangers 4. They have only 4 bonified can-probably-count-on pitchers on that staff (Beckett, Lester, Bard & Papelbon) and that's pathetic!
Posted by bingobilly
I have been saying for some time, Wake is as good or better than Lackey. Theo thought his toughness would fit well in Boston but the pressure and steady diet of AL east hitters has really taken it's toll on John. With Wake you expect a couple more runs "even miller" who is still trying to find himself but a consistent 6 ERA out of a guy that was probably signed as our number 3, is simply not acceptable.
Well it's back to trying to catch the Yankees because between the Yanks and Rangers series we really dropped the ball. -
Re: Lackey is useless
posted at 9/5/2011 9:22 AM EDT
- notin
- Posts: 8376
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In Response to Re: Lackey is useless:In Response to Re: Lackey is useless : Kind of like DiceK where Theo paid $50,000,001 for the negotiating rights. Next highest bid $39,000,000. So either Theo has too much money to play with, or all the other GM's are idiots. With Lackey, unlike other FA signings, there were no rumblings about Lackey being on the radar, nor were there any rumblings about Crawford either. Like Theo was afraid the Yankees would sign them, so he backed up the brinks truck, when he was the only player in the market. Paranoia? Some symptoms there. Dice, KK and Lackey. A trend has developed. I rest my case.
Posted by aussiewill
Free agents are rarely signed thrugh bidding wars, despite what fans want to think. It wasn't as if the choices were offer Lackey $82mill or $1. Lackey's rate is set by the asking price of his agent and usualy based on other recent signings deemed equivalent. A team interested in Lackey has to meet that price.
The Sox were interested in Lackey, and should have been. He was the best SP available that off-season. Lackey has failed to live up for whatever reason.
The notion that the Sox spent $320mill on Crawford, Lackey and Daisuke merely to keep them off the Yankees is 100% untrue, and I say this as an outsider. The Sox would not outspend their own payroll merely to keep people away from NY; that is an expensive and stupid strategy. Those players are in Boston becuase the Sox management team wanted them in Boston, end of story. If the "proof" is the lack of media stories about interest, that is the media operation and not the Sox... -
Re: Lackey is useless
posted at 9/5/2011 9:32 AM EDT
- craze4sox
- Posts: 3949
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In Response to Re: Lackey is useless:In Response to Re: Lackey is useless : Free agents are rarely signed thrugh bidding wars, despite what fans want to think. It wasn't as if the choices were offer Lackey $82mill or $1. Lackey's rate is set by the asking price of his agent and usualy based on other recent signings deemed equivalent. A team interested in Lackey has to meet that price. The Sox were interested in Lackey, and should have been. He was the best SP available that off-season. Lackey has failed to live up for whatever reason. The notion that the Sox spent $320mill on Crawford, Lackey and Daisuke merely to keep them off the Yankees is 100% untrue, and I say this as an outsider. The Sox would not outspend their own payroll merely to keep people away from NY; that is an expensive and stupid strategy. Those players are in Boston becuase the Sox management team wanted them in Boston, end of story. If the "proof" is the lack of media stories about interest, that is the media operation and not the Sox...
Posted by notin
I agree notin, except when it came to Dice K. I think the Sox thought so highly of Dice they through in an enormous bid hoping the Yankees didn't get him. As it turned out we got a better pitcher than Lackey but an arm that already had way too many miles on it. -
Re: Lackey is useless
posted at 9/5/2011 10:41 AM EDT
- dannycater
- Posts: 10017
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For the record, if you throw a 93 MPH fastball down the middle of the plate...it will get hit, and get hit hard. -
Re: Lackey is useless
posted at 9/5/2011 11:10 AM EDT
- lucbom
- Posts: 506
- First: 4/3/2006
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In Response to Re: Lackey is useless:lackey will be our #5 pitcher for the next three years and i do not see any way we get out of it.
Posted by canetime
WOW! Just think, we've got three (3) more years of watching, reading and/or listening to Lackey and Francona after game excuses of why Lackey got creamed again. -
Re: Lackey is useless
posted at 9/5/2011 9:32 PM EDT
- harness
- Posts: 19880
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In Response to Re: Lackey is useless:For the record, if you throw a 93 MPH fastball down the middle of the plate...it will get hit, and get hit hard.
Posted by dannycater
Not necessarily. Dice threw 93 with straight heat and was often very effective... throwing into meatball city. If the hitter is sitting on a stead diet of slop, 93 can look like 100, regardless of where it's located.
93 MPH keeps hitters honest. It has to be seen in the context of his repertoire. -
Re: Lackey is useless
posted at 9/5/2011 9:37 PM EDT
- harness
- Posts: 19880
- First: 10/16/2007
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In Response to Re: Lackey is useless:In Response to Re: Lackey is useless : Free agents are rarely signed thrugh bidding wars, despite what fans want to think. It wasn't as if the choices were offer Lackey $82mill or $1. Lackey's rate is set by the asking price of his agent and usualy based on other recent signings deemed equivalent. A team interested in Lackey has to meet that price.The Sox were interested in Lackey, and should have been. He was the best SP available that off-season. Lackey has failed to live up for whatever reason. The notion that the Sox spent $320mill on Crawford, Lackey and Daisuke merely to keep them off the Yankees is 100% untrue, and I say this as an outsider. The Sox would not outspend their own payroll merely to keep people away from NY; that is an expensive and stupid strategy. Those players are in Boston becuase the Sox management team wanted them in Boston, end of story. If the "proof" is the lack of media stories about interest, that is the media operation and not the Sox...
Posted by notin
Disagree Notin. Crawford got 140 mil because Theo/FO got into a bidding war with the Angels. Abreau only got 5 mil because that's what the market dictated. I'm sure his agent set a higher price. Agents set prices due to perceived market standards, but they won't get their asking price if it's deemed too high or there's little demand.
Agents don't determine the final player cost. The market does. -
Re: Lackey is useless
posted at 9/5/2011 9:39 PM EDT
- moonslav59
- Posts: 34296
- First: 9/27/2005
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Right, look at the Varitek fiasco with Boras. -
Re: Lackey is useless
posted at 9/5/2011 9:49 PM EDT
- LloydDobler
- Posts: 11861
- First: 7/13/2009
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When the Sox signed Lackey, I thought it was a great move. He was so dominant against us the previous year in the playoffs. I thought Lackey would be a steady No. 3 starter behind Lester and Beckett and we'd have the best rotation in baseball.
Alas, I was wrong. Lackey has been awful. But it would be hypocritical of me to rip Theo for signing him. And childish to call Lackey "Slackey" or "Lackluster" or something else my 8-year-old would consider immature. -
Re: Lackey is useless
posted at 9/5/2011 10:19 PM EDT
- BostonTrollSpanker
- Posts: 4512
- First: 9/2/2009
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"he simply gives up a lot of baserunners, which several come around and score."Didn't want this gem to go unnoticed, a perhaps unintentional but classic tribute to Lackey's amazing mediocrity, which we have to talk ourselves into being acceptable until we read that phrase several times and realize it's a fail.On the bright side, with all the craptastic starts and pitching injuries, there is a chance Wakefield will make the playoff roster, in which case Softy's head might explode and that might spare us from his propoganda routine until Baseball GM and Billybyboy screw it back on. -
Re: Lackey is useless
posted at 9/5/2011 10:36 PM EDT
- Kamdog
- Posts: 346
- First: 7/23/2009
- Last: 10/7/2012
Just ask yourself, would you rather have AJ Burnette?
Not every trade works out fine, lots of top ball players have bad years (look at Mauer), some really low paid players are doing great.
The Sox made a good deal for Lackey, it hasn't worked out yet. Get rid of him too cheap, and he will come back and bite ya. -
Re: Lackey is useless
posted at 9/5/2011 10:37 PM EDT
- mick711
- Posts: 42
- First: 10/26/2009
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In Response to Re: Lackey is useless:" he simply gives up a lot of baserunners, which several come around and score." Didn't want this gem to go unnoticed, a perhaps unintentional but classic tribute to Lackey's amazing mediocrity, which we have to talk ourselves into being acceptable until we read that phrase several times and realize it's a fail. On the bright side, with all the craptastic starts and pitching injuries, there is a chance Wakefield will make the playoff roster, in which case Softy's head might explode and that might spare us from his propoganda routine until Baseball GM and Billybyboy screw it back on.
Posted by BostonTrollSpanker
excuse me, but you are talking about the number 3 starting pitcher on the sox. a little support please. a few times this year, Lackey has been let down by the defense. also, he can straighten out ome of his mechanical issues by the playoffs. -
Re: Lackey is useless
posted at 9/5/2011 11:36 PM EDT
- moonslav59
- Posts: 34296
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He's got as good a chance as any to straighten out and win the 4 slot for the playoffs. It could easily come down to the lesser of 3 evils:LackeyWakeMiller -
Re: Lackey is useless
posted at 9/6/2011 12:18 AM EDT
- dannycater
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he also has as bad a chance -
Re: Lackey is useless
posted at 9/6/2011 12:21 AM EDT
- moonslav59
- Posts: 34296
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Yes, 1 out of 3 is bad. -
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Re: Lackey is useless
posted at 9/6/2011 2:24 AM EDT
- redsoxpride34
- Posts: 1227
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imagine that theo making a bad signing. that never happens lol. could you imagine if the sox had cliff lee instead of lackey and matt holliday instead of crawford. and i know some posters will bring up the "hindsight is 20/20" arguement but in this case the signings of lackey and crawford made no sense from the beginning. prior to signing with the sox, lackey had back to back injury plagued seasons. he really only had 1 good year. there was little inerest in him across the league. the angels didnt even want him back. the only other team that was interested in him was the mets because they were desperate for starter. crawford perhaps made even less sense than lackey. why? because he was the exact opposite of what the sox needed. he is a 1/2 hitter with a similar skillset to ellsbury. the sox needed a middle of the order right handed power hitting left fielder. matt holliday was everything the sox could have asked for. he hits for a high average, his for power, and is right handed. and he would have cost less than crawford. and the funniest part of all was when theo tried to justify the signing by claiming that crawford has evolved into a middle of the order hitter. so now we have a 20 million dollar a year number 6 hitter who has the skillset of a 1/2 hitter. nice work theo.