Lackey now over.500

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    Re: Lackey at.500

    In Response to Re: Lackey at.500:
    [QUOTE]A lot of posters here are not going to want to read this, or acknowledge it at all.  Lackey is the JD Drew of the pitching staff; hated for the big contract he earned by being the best available in a year the Sox had a need.  Therefore he is overpaid a bit for the talent and production he brings to the team.  As a result, to many here Lackey is a complete bum and no amount of statistics will change their minds. Parhunter, I posted somewhere else that Lackey is the JD Drew after JD Drew is gone.  He will never live up to that contract and will continually be trashed even if he can string together some good stretches.  Lackey's demeanor does not endear him to anyone, which is ironic since many people read Drew's stoicism as apathy, while Lackey's fire is seen as showing up his team mates.    Crawford in in danger of taking the ire levied at JD Drew if he doesn't pick it up.  Great player, will turn it around I'm sure at some point, but even those who liked the signing cringed at that contract. 
    Posted by CablesWyndBairn[/QUOTE]

    That's why scouting and progressive thinking are so vital - to avoid the trap of over-paying via free agency. Good starting pitching is a rare commodity, as it takes time to develop and polish this highly involved, God-given skill.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Your-Echo. Show Your-Echo's posts

    Re: Lackey now at.500

    In Response to Re: Lackey now at.500:
    [QUOTE]One might say that Lackey pitched two gems v. 2 of the worst teams in baseball--Seattle and Baltimore...I'm not going to take that away from John, and I'm happy he is throwing well of late. I don't think he was entirely terrible in that other start in between Seattle/Baltimore. So in essence, three pitched games that helped the Sox win 3 straight starts for him. Some pitchers might have responded differently to the Toronto debacle after having so many other issues this year. I should have started a rip Lackey to shreds thread earlier this year--seems to work with slumping Sox.  Any way you slice it, he's basically regained his rotation stranglehold. And he may get bombed his next start, but as long as he can pitch well 3 out of 4 starts, I'll take it.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    LOL, Cater thinks that comments on the BDC forum are correlated with happenings in the FO or on the field. I doubt that anyone in the Red Sox organization reads anything on this forum.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Lackey now at.500

    He was referring to superstition.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Lackey now at.500

    I will bet that the FO has an intern specifically assigned to monitoring this forum. 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Lackey now at.500

    Perhaps you should apply for the job. After all, most of the jobs in America are being out-sourced. Besides, you have valuable experience with Yaz...
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re: Lackey at.500

    In Response to Re: Lackey at.500:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Lackey at.500 : That's why scouting and progressive thinking are so vital - to avoid the trap of over-paying via free agency. Good starting pitching is a rare commodity, as it takes time to develop and polish this highly involved, God-given skill.
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]

    Harness, I agree completely.  However, good scouting and player development has led the Sox to the Ellsbury situation.  Since they set the market for corner outfielders with speed and decent power potential, they will either pay him in Crawford's neighborhood or will lose him to the highest bidder.  A bit ironic, but maybe that's why the have Crawford signed for seven years. 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Lackey at.500

    In Response to Re: Lackey at.500:
    [QUOTE]He's been really chucking that rock the last month or so.  Only one bad start, if memory seerves.
    Posted by SinceYaz[/QUOTE]

    To say John out dueled "Felix" with a bad elbow is funny because the only thing John beat was a team batting 223.  Every win John gives us helps but without a good offense his record would still be well below 500. 

    If John really has a bad elbow he probably wouldn't be piching at all.  Sounds like an excuse for bad performances to me.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from thewags. Show thewags's posts

    Re: Lackey at.500

    In Response to Re: Lackey at.500:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Lackey at.500 : To say John out dueled "Felix" is quite funny because the only thing John beat was a team batting 223.  Every win John gives us helps but without a good offense his record would still be well below 500.
    Posted by craze4sox[/QUOTE]

    Lackey gave up 1 run and Felix gave up 6 runs. To me, that counts as outdeuling in the MLB regardless of which two teams are facing off.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from jeffh102082. Show jeffh102082's posts

    Re: Lackey now at.500

    Been saying it for awhile now myself, I believe he's gonna end up a fan favorite by the end of his red sox tenure. I predict this guy will do something big for the team and all that bashing he's gotten ( from me as well) will be forgotten.  He's still a major league pitcher with talent and can win ball games, consistency is all it takes. I bet if healthy and we are in the playoffs that he ends up pitching really well. 

    If he's really anything like JD Drew then we can remember Drew made us all forget how worthless he was when he saved us in that Cleveland series in 07. 




    In Response to Lackey now at.500:
    [QUOTE]His record is now 8-8. With a bad elbow in May, limiting him to two starts, and what he's dealing with off-the-field, including the wrath of many on this board, he may very well duplicate his 14-11 2010 season. Of note: His two May starts resulted in a cortisone shot and a DL stay. Excluding this, he's 8-6  5.44 ERA. Not great, but not horrid. In three of his losses the team scored a total of 1 run. 4/19: 5-0 loss. Line: 6 IP     4 H  1 ER 4/30: 2-0 loss. Line: 6 IP     7 H  2 ER 6/29: 2-1 loss. Line: 7.6 IP  8 H  2 ER Nice game tonight - outdueling 2010 CY winner Felix.
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Lackey at.500

    In Response to Re: Lackey at.500:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Lackey at.500 : Lackey gave up 1 run and Felix gave up 6 runs. To me, that counts as outdeuling in the MLB regardless of which two teams are facing off.
    Posted by thewags[/QUOTE]

    No offense, you can paint Lackey and way you like but he is still Lackey.  A pitcher who needs the best offense in baseball to bail him out against most opponents, but especially the good lineups. 

    Lets give him credit the next time he actually pitches a great game against one of the better teams.  When I say good game, I mean 2 to 4 runs and a 7 or 8 inning outing which you will rarely ever see.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from joyceand. Show joyceand's posts

    Re: Lackey at.500

    In Response to Re: Lackey at.500:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Lackey at.500 : Lackey isn't really in the same class as Clay, Jon or Josh in my opinion and just a notch above Wake, Miller and possibly Aceves.  John is definately overpaid but its not our money to gripe about and every decent outing helps oue cause.
    Posted by craze4sox[/QUOTE]
    Don't we pay ticket prices and cable bills?
     
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    Re: Lackey at.500

    Lackey's ERA is north of 6.00; W-L record doesn't mean much, just look at Beckett's.  Lackey has benefitted from good run support and winning agains bottom of the barrel opponents like Baltimore and Seaattle.  What happens at playoff time when they need the real deal?
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from thewags. Show thewags's posts

    Re: Lackey at.500

    In Response to Re: Lackey at.500:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Lackey at.500 : No offense, you can paint Lackey and way you like but he is still Lackey.  A pitcher who needs the best offense in baseball to bail him out against most opponents, but especially the good lineups.  Lets give him credit the next time he actually pitches a great game against one of the better teams.  When I say good game, I mean 2 to 4 runs and a 7 or 8 inning outing which you will rarely ever see.
    Posted by craze4sox[/QUOTE]

    ... from any pitcher. Lester has 2 such starts on the season, one of which he lost. If you count the Brewers and LAA as "better teams" (they are above .500,I suppose) then he has 4. Maybe you should lower your standards for an excellent start and stop expecting numbers befitting an ace from our number 4 starter.

     
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    Re: Lackey at.500

    In Response to Re: Lackey at.500:
    [QUOTE]Lackey's ERA is north of 6.00; W-L record doesn't mean much, just look at Beckett's.  Lackey has benefitted from good run support and winning agains bottom of the barrel opponents like Baltimore and Seaattle.  What happens at playoff time when they need the real deal?
    Posted by joyceand[/QUOTE]

    He has settled into a grove as of late. I'm not saying Id give him the rock if it were game 7 right now (or ever), but I am saying keep an open mind and a positive attitude towards the progress he has been showing. He DOES have the potential to be a shut down pitcher, but mostly he is a number 3 guy, number 4 on this team, who can get us the W against teams with weak lineups and, as he showed against Phili, against good ones as well.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimdavis. Show jimdavis's posts

    Re: Lackey at.500

    In Response to Re: Lackey at.500:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Lackey at.500 : Don't we pay ticket prices and cable bills?
    Posted by joyceand[/QUOTE]

    Yes you do.  But once you do, it is no longer your money.  You can exercise free will and stay home and cut off cable.
     
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    Re: Lackey now at.500

    In Response to Re: Lackey now at.500:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Lackey now at.500 : I've always felt that Lackey was a grinder. Not a pretty pitcher who was going to have dominating stretches like Beckett, Lester and even Buchholz can have, but a pitcher who will take the ball every fifth game and just battle and keep you in games. Except for the games this year when he blew up -- for whatever reason, personal or injury -- he's done just that. My only problem with him was when he appeared to be getting upset at teammates when they made a bad play or sometimes simply not make a play he thought they should make. But if it's that he's getting mad at himself, then I like it. I never had anything against signing him, although I always questioned the length. Who knows? Maybe he'll be better at the end of the contract than at the beginning.
    Posted by royf19[/QUOTE]

    100% correct Roy - spot on!
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimdavis. Show jimdavis's posts

    Re: Lackey now at.500

    I remain amazed that the town doesn't like the guy.  He has struggled, there is no doubt.  He is fiery and seems like a dirt dog to me.  His wife is battling a touch disease in the public eye.  He found a way to get to 14 wins last year and is finally pitching like everyone expects.  Why can't we lay off the bash fest and offer support?
     
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    Re: Lackey now at.500

    In Response to Lackey now at.500:
    [QUOTE]His record is now 8-8. With a bad elbow in May, limiting him to two starts, and what he's dealing with off-the-field, including the wrath of many on this board, he may very well duplicate his 14-11 2010 season. Of note: His two May starts resulted in a cortisone shot and a DL stay. Excluding this, he's 8-6  5.44 ERA. Not great, but not horrid. In three of his losses the team scored a total of 1 run. 4/19: 5-0 loss. Line: 6 IP     4 H  1 ER 4/30: 2-0 loss. Line: 6 IP     7 H  2 ER 6/29: 2-1 loss. Line: 7.6 IP  8 H  2 ER Nice game tonight - outdueling 2010 CY winner Felix.

    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]

    And if you exclude the games in which the other team has scored more than the sawx he has a perfect record.

    And since when is a 5.44 ERA not horrid?!!

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Lackey at.500

    In Response to Re: Lackey at.500:
    [QUOTE]Lackey's ERA is north of 6.00; W-L record doesn't mean much, just look at Beckett's.  Lackey has benefitted from good run support and winning agains bottom of the barrel opponents like Baltimore and Seaattle.  What happens at playoff time when they need the real deal?
    Posted by joyceand[/QUOTE]

    Hmmm. Sure.

    I get your point about the run support, but they said the same thing of Jim Lonborg in '67.  We wasn't that good a pticher, he just got a lot of run support.  Look at Bob Gibson, now HE earned his wins ....


    Let me assure you, the wins count big.  The ERA in the last 3 games is great.  He started the season with arm trouble and a wife with cancer.  He still has a sick wife.  6-3 since the DL ...


    I am sure the Sox would be glad to give up those wins.

    Look who would be tied for first then.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxmeister. Show soxmeister's posts

    Re: Lackey now at.500

    Time to admit that Lackey is a dirt dog.  Good for him.  
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Lackey now at.500

    In Response to Re: Lackey now at.500:
    [QUOTE]I remain amazed that the town doesn't like the guy.  He has struggled, there is no doubt.  He is fiery and seems like a dirt dog to me.  His wife is battling a touch disease in the public eye.  He found a way to get to 14 wins last year and is finally pitching like everyone expects.  Why can't we lay off the bash fest and offer support?
    Posted by jimdavis[/QUOTE]

    Jim, I like the fight Lackey has and every game we wins but he just doesn't have that same toughness against the better teams.  We may need John at some point to win a big game and I'm not confident in his ability.  Our offense is so good he may not need to but when you give a guy 80mil, is it wrong to expect a little more?
     
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    Re: Lackey now at.500

    In Response to Re: Lackey now at.500:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Lackey now at.500 : Jim, I like the fight Lackey has and every game we wins but he just doesn't have that same toughness against the better teams.  We may need John at some point to win a big game and I'm not confident in his ability.  Our offense is so good he may not need to but when you give a guy 80mil, is it wrong to expect a little more?
    Posted by craze4sox[/QUOTE]

    You should expect more.  I understand that.  Now that he is settling in, I think he will be fine.  The Phils are one of the better teams and he did the job against them.  I know he was pretty tough against the Sox when he was in LA.  That is the guy I expect to see going forward.  Will Sox fans then give him a break?  Or will they declare he sucks as soon as he gives up his next run?  We all know the answer to that one.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from The--Babe----. Show The--Babe----'s posts

    Re: Lackey now at.500

    In Response to Re: Lackey now at.500:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Lackey now at.500 : You should expect more.  I understand that.  Now that he is settling in, I think he will be fine.  The Phils are one of the better teams and he did the job against them.  I know he was pretty tough against the Sox when he was in LA.  That is the guy I expect to see going forward.  Will Sox fans then give him a break?  Or will they declare he sucks as soon as he gives up his next run?  We all know the answer to that one.

    Posted by jimdavis[/QUOTE]

    Really? lackey was 3-7 with a 5.25 ERA and a 1.64 WHIP against the sawx.

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=lackejo01&year=Career&t=p

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimdavis. Show jimdavis's posts

    Re: Lackey now at.500

    In Response to Re: Lackey now at.500:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Lackey now at.500 : Really? lackey was 3-7 with a 5.25 ERA and a 1.64 WHIP against the sawx. http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=lackejo01&year=Career&t=p
    Posted by The--Babe----[/QUOTE]

    Sorry Babe.  I'm speaking of the playoffs in 2009.  And, BTW, if you watched any Sox Angels games at the time, he was tough on the Sox despite the stats you quote.  Why don't you google the 2007, 2008 and 2009 playoffs. The Sox might have gotten to him in an inning or gotten his pitch count up or both but he didn't often get shelled.  He battled and made the team work for anything they got.  But keep quoting stats out of context.  It makes you sound really knowledgeable.
     
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    Re: Lackey now at.500

    In Response to Re: Lackey now at.500:
    [QUOTE]I remain amazed that the town doesn't like the guy.  He has struggled, there is no doubt.  He is fiery and seems like a dirt dog to me.  His wife is battling a touch disease in the public eye.  He found a way to get to 14 wins last year and is finally pitching like everyone expects.  Why can't we lay off the bash fest and offer support?
    Posted by jimdavis[/QUOTE]Tough town where first impression are everything. JD Drew is a poster child of this, though Drew has now bookended his RS career with a bad start and a less than glorious end.

    And contracts create expectations for FA that don't neccesarily align to the contract but to what fans think the contract should buy. So while Lackey's contract buys a pitcher like Burnett or DLowe, the expectation in Boston was that it was going to buy a Doc Halladay. Add the troubled beginning to this year and the dude was raw meat for WEEI Whiner Line.

    Now if Lackey had started quickly in Boston the perception would be different. His facial expressions when plays aren't made would be intensity, his not wanting to come out his fiery competitive nature.

    Boston is a tough market. Once you check into the doghouse, checking out takes a lot of great performances and any stumbles will check you right back in.  This isn't St. Louis for sure.

     
     
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