Last two games: 14 IP 10 Hits 1 ER - for the "BUST"

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimdavis. Show jimdavis's posts

    Re: Last two games: 14 IP 10 Hits 1 ER - for the "BUST"

    In Response to Re: Last two games: 14 IP 10 Hits 1 ER - for the "BUST":
    What's Lackey getting paid?  $16 million.  That's the second highest salary on the team.  $16,000,000.  That's 50% more than Dice-K.  That's $1 million less than Beckett. For a number 4 starter.  That to me is a bust.  Now, if he can continue to pitch like he's done the past 2 games, then he's a number 4 only in name.  But if he pitches like he did in his first 2 starts, he'll be the #5 starter.  For $16 million. Lackey needs to show that he can pitch in Fenway.  He needs to show that he can pitch in an Eastern Time zone. 
    Posted by DirtyWaterLover


    A bust can't go 14-11 in year #1.  You gotta name me a #5 starter in all of baseball that throws 200 innings and wins 14 games.  As I am sure you know, the salary is a result of timing and market.  Theo KNEW there would be a pitching shortage in the 2010 offseason so he spent his free agent money on Lackey.  The guy had a lot to deal with personally in 2010 and so I give him a break.  So far, his 2011 season seems to be headed on the proper path to be successful.  He is going to be a #4 starter as long as you have Lester, Josh and Clay.  That is a good thing, not a bad thing.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Last two games: 14 IP 10 Hits 1 ER - for the "BUST"

    Lackey, like Drew before him, suffers from annual salary syndrome (AS_S)that clouds our judgement of their on-field performance....

    i dont suffer from that because they all make waaay to much money to justofy - from Crawford on down - so why worry about it
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from BaseballGM. Show BaseballGM's posts

    Re: Last two games: 14 IP 10 Hits 1 ER - for the "BUST"

    In all posts about Lackey, please provide his current ERA or put your fingers in timeout. Harness is raving about Varitek, one day after Salty pitched a shutout.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Last two games: 14 IP 10 Hits 1 ER - for the "BUST"

    I did post ERA. You look like the fool you are going by 4 games. I used the last two of Lackey's outings to mock how foolish that is. Lackey is not going to have an ERA under 2.00 - anymore than he will have one over 10.00 by year's end.

    To measure a player based on salary shows just how little you know about the game's structure. As Parhunter1 pointed out, Lester/Buch make less - should we expect less from them?

    You, and several others, confuse salary with circumstance.
    Lackey makes 17 mil a year - so therefore he must become something he's not.
    Because he makes 17 mil a year, he's suddenly a #2 pitcher.
    You b*tch about Ellsbury being over-hyped by the FO/media/fans. Then you go ahead and prance around here like a teeny-bopper in heat, over-hyping Lackey by his salary.

    Your statement about Beckett getting less on the open market than what Boston pays him shows how little you know about market value. First of all, the FO doesn't have a crystal ball. They didn't know Josh was gonna get hurt. Secondly, if you think Beckett was gonna get low-balled on the open market because he missed much of a season, you are crazy. 10 years at 112-74 outweigh one poor season.
    He would have been a highly sought-after prize.

    The only "bust" is your baseball IQ - and trying to dupe others into thinking you are something you are not.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxPatsCelts1988. Show SoxPatsCelts1988's posts

    Re: Last two games: 14 IP 10 Hits 1 ER - for the "BUST"

    Lackey can go out there and go 5IP 6ER next start and people will go right back to bashing on him.  I'm not ready to sign off on Dice-K and Lackey.  They still have a lot more to prove.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BaseballGM. Show BaseballGM's posts

    Re: Last two games: 14 IP 10 Hits 1 ER - for the "BUST"

    I did post ERA. You look like the fool you are going by 4 games.

    Look, you bloviating bully, Lackey's full season 4.44 ERA and career high WHIP aren't "4 games". But don't post your nonsense without pointing out why Yahoo Sports has his face as one of 4 poster children for recent FA busts.

    YOu don't have a clue about FA market value, or anything else, for that matter. Beckett woudl have taken a big hit on base and term if the Red Sox waited him out last season. His last solid full season elite starting pitching performance was 2007. He still hasn't answered the question marks this year until he puts up a full season of high level starting pitching metrics. It appears he'll have an up season, but that doesn't change the fact that his market value was the antithesis of Roy Halladay. Theo foolishly pulled the premature trigger, and it didn't take a crystal ball to know that he had all season to buy high, or, buy low if Beckett was a season bust. Which he was. Worst case, he would have paid the same numbers for an up 2010 because no one was going to pay Beckett as a CC or Halladay type of Profile. The guy has been inconsistent his entire MLB career.

    Harness, you write boldly and deliver a pitiful commentary and hysterical conclusions. Andrew is like Socrates compared to you.
     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Last two games: 14 IP 10 Hits 1 ER - for the "BUST"

    In Response to Re: Last two games: 14 IP 10 Hits 1 ER - for the "BUST":
    Beckett woudl have taken a big hit on base and term if the Red Sox waited him out last season. His last solid full season elite starting pitching performance was 2007. He still hasn't answered the question marks this year until he puts up a full season of high level starting pitching metrics. It appears he'll have an up season, but that doesn't change the fact that his market value was the antithesis of Roy Halladay. Theo foolishly pulled the premature trigger, and it didn't take a crystal ball to know that he had all season to buy high, or, buy low if Beckett was a season bust. Which he was. Worst case, he would have paid the same numbers for an up 2010 because no one was going to pay Beckett as a CC or Halladay type of Profile. The guy has been inconsistent his entire MLB career.
    Posted by BaseballGM


    Beckett's overall numbers were actually very strong and reasonably consistent for the 3-year stretch from 2007 to 2009.  49-23 record, 3.70 ERA in the AL East, WHIP under 1.2 all 3 years.  Epstein probably foresaw the hugely inflated contracts coming up in the post-2010 FA market.  If Beckett had a strong season in 2010 the price would have been much higher than 68 million.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: Last two games: 14 IP 10 Hits 1 ER - for the "BUST"

    I still believe GM and RedSox11 are closet Yankees fans. The arrogance, the avarice, the lack of information, the concern troll Sox bashing. Yeah, I'm convinced of it.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Last two games: 14 IP 10 Hits 1 ER - for the "BUST"

    RedSox11 was BaseballDR. The MO for both is undeniable.

    GM denies being Softy to avoid getting nabbed by the mods.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Last two games: 14 IP 10 Hits 1 ER - for the "BUST"

    To Hfxsoxnut: Posing data like Beckett being 49-23 from 2007-9 won't make this clown retract a damn thing. He wants people to think he actually knows what he's talking about. He doesn't. He continually underestimates what the FA market dictates. Beckett would have been the prize on the open market had the FO not acted wisely. Lackey got 17 mil a year. The market for Beckett would have morphed it.

    Now he claims Yahoosports is the know-all source. What does it take to penetrate this demented EGO of his?

    Lackey was compromised by an inept catcher last year. As was the rest of the staff when a credible frame of reference could be drawn.

    Lackey with VMART: 4.81 ERA  1.463 WHIP
    LACKEY with Tek/Salty/Cash: 3.31 ERA  1.296 WHIP

    Lackey just said in an interview how he credited Salty for allowing for a strong tempo/rhythm.
    According to the GM clown: Catchers have nothing to do with pitching. "It's solely on the pitcher".

    He makes RedSox11 look like Einstein.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: Last two games: 14 IP 10 Hits 1 ER - for the "BUST"

    "Beckett would have been the prize on the open market had the FO not acted wisely."

    Well put harness. Can you imagine the vitriol we'd be reading about "how stupid Theo is" if Beckett were doing this with someone else, say, the pitching desperate Yankees for example? Funny thing is, it'd be the GM's, 11's, and sundry other trolls that'd be yelling about it. You know how much trolls enjoy exposing themselves.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from zack5042. Show zack5042's posts

    Re: Last two games: 14 IP 10 Hits 1 ER - for the "BUST"

    In Response to Re: Last two games: 14 IP 10 Hits 1 ER - for the "BUST":
    I did post ERA. You look like the fool you are going by 4 games. Look, you bloviating bully, Lackey's full season 4.44 ERA and career high WHIP aren't "4 games". But don't post your nonsense without pointing out why Yahoo Sports has his face as one of 4 poster children for recent FA busts. YOu don't have a clue about FA market value, or anything else, for that matter. Beckett woudl have taken a big hit on base and term if the Red Sox waited him out last season. His last solid full season elite starting pitching performance was 2007. He still hasn't answered the question marks this year until he puts up a full season of high level starting pitching metrics. It appears he'll have an up season, but that doesn't change the fact that his market value was the antithesis of Roy Halladay. Theo foolishly pulled the premature trigger, and it didn't take a crystal ball to know that he had all season to buy high, or, buy low if Beckett was a season bust. Which he was. Worst case, he would have paid the same numbers for an up 2010 because no one was going to pay Beckett as a CC or Halladay type of Profile. The guy has been inconsistent his entire MLB career. Harness, you write boldly and deliver a pitiful commentary and hysterical conclusions. Andrew is like Socrates compared to you.
    Posted by BaseballGM

    Wow.... now tell me something... You consider Becketts 2009 stats bad? Because i would take those numbers anytime. So wait Beckett shouldn't be getting paid Sabathia money? Can you look at there career numbers and tell me that again? Beckett has had two bad seasons and two mediocre seasons. all his other season have been good. Now considering one bad season was because of injury and the other was right when he got traded to the red sox i don't give those numbers trust. He went from playing in the National League to the american League east. That means that him posting a 5.01 ERA with 16 wins and 11 losses is understandable. While CC who was in the draft one year before Beckett so its understandable that Beckett didn't have a full season till a little bit after him. Becketts first 5 seasons he wasn't even given thirty starts while  CC was which is because he played for cleveland... Not to mention i consider Becketts first five seasons better than CC's. so overall becketts numbers are pretty comparable to CC who is only doing better than him in ERA which is probably because of the 500 innings pitched difference. If Sabathia deserves that kind of money so does Beckett. So next time think before you talk or atleast look up information... Also for Lackey if you look at his numbers you can tell he was never signed as a number 2 for us. with lester and beckett there was no way he was going to be one or two then the rise of buchholz pushed hiim back to four. 2007 might've been his only dominant season where he had a 3.01 ERA and went 19-9. Better numbers than CC had in 2007 and oh wait isnt that when he won the Cy young? CC only had a better whip and 20 ips and 30 strike outs more than Lackey. So besides that season which year did he prove he was going to be a number two? Dont blame him for that contract and dont call it a bust since its only been one season. Hes ticked and hes going to prove that hes worth it.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: Last two games: 14 IP 10 Hits 1 ER - for the "BUST"

    It's the beard. That's what turned it around for Lackey. Forget the stats, forget Salty, forget revenge on Scoscia. Beard, think beard. BTW, I was also struck by how much thinner Lackey is than he was last year. Looks like an actual athlete--then there's the beard to be feared.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: Last two games: 14 IP 10 Hits 1 ER - for the

    Posts: 13962
    First: 10/16/2007
    Last: 4/25/2011
    RedSox11 was BaseballDR. The MO for both is undeniable.


    Harness, it's funny that you should mention that. Something about that seemed familiar, but I couldn't put my finger on what it was. Then I remembered being on the Patriots threads a lot this winter, and running into a "FootballDR", who was so outrageously stupid and obtuse that arguing with him was like taking pot shots at a slow moving derigible. Schitzoid DR? Kevorkian maybe I think. He claimed to have been a Patriots fan for years, but ripped them perpetually with a kind of numb lameness that seems hauntingly familiar to me now. He got consistently and brutally pounded over there, and deserved every second of it.

     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from mikeyinthebronx. Show mikeyinthebronx's posts

    Re: Last two games: 14 IP 10 Hits 1 ER - for the "BUST"

    In Response to Re: Last two games: 14 IP 10 Hits 1 ER - for the "BUST":
    I just came home from the Stadium and saw Tex ground into a DP in the ninth inning with two on. Tell me all about it.
    Posted by MikeyinQueens


    What gate did you leave from?
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Last two games: 14 IP 10 Hits 1 ER - for the

    In Response to Re: Last two games: 14 IP 10 Hits 1 ER - for the:
    harness Posts: 13962 First: 10/16/2007 Last: 4/25/2011 RedSox11 was BaseballDR. The MO for both is undeniable. Harness, it's funny that you should mention that. Something about that seemed familiar, but I couldn't put my finger on what it was. Then I remembered being on the Patriots threads a lot this winter, and running into a "FootballDR", who was so outrageously stupid and obtuse that arguing with him was like taking pot shots at a slow moving derigible. Schitzoid DR? Kevorkian maybe I think. He claimed to have been a Patriots fan for years, but ripped them perpetually with a kind of numb lameness that seems hauntingly familiar to me now. He got consistently and brutally pounded over there, and deserved every second of it.
    Posted by TheExaminer



    FootballDR? Really? God, that's funny. I don't frequent any other forum, so I had no idea. Did he constantly attach one source as he does Tito?




    To Zack5042: That's an interesting analogy: Josh to CC. I will always claim that Beckett should have won that 2007 Cy. CC didn't face A.L. East competition in an unbalanced schedule - or pitch half his games in Fenway.

    It'll be interesting who puts up better numbers over the next 3-4 years.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BaseballGM. Show BaseballGM's posts

    Re: Last two games: 14 IP 10 Hits 1 ER - for the "BUST"

    Beckett:
                 ERA     WHIP
    2006     5.01      1.295    Down
    2007     3.27      1.141    Up
    2008     4.03      1.187    Down
    2009     3.86      1.192    Sideways
    2010     5.78      1.535    Down Down

    No smart GM would have given Beckett an extension before at least the All-Star break. Anyone claiming that he's ever been an ace in the true sense is not living the real world. When he's good, he's really good. Otherwise, he's decent but not any Ace consistent pitcher. Lester is more consistent, and Beckett has wrongly been called the Ace for years.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Last two games: 14 IP 10 Hits 1 ER - for the "BUST"

    GM's look at the whole package. That includes his years in Florida.
    In 2006, he made a poor transition. Lackey's transition last year was similar, yet I don't recall Beckett being referred to as a "bust" in '06.

    Josh in '07 speaks for itself. In 2008, he wasn't healthy. You have a very bad habit of judging players when they are not healthy/playing hurt. That's why you missed the boat on Lowrie.

    In 2009, Josh was headed for a 20-win season. In fact, he ran off a 12-2  1.84 ERA stretch from May to August. Then Tek went down, enter VMART, and the wheels immediately came off.

    Last year, he was hurt.

    Pitching is a commodity that is highly coveted on the open market. Beckett would have commanded top money in a bidding frenzy.

    CC over a 162 game season:     16-9    3.56 ERA    1.228 WHIP
    BECKETT OVER 162 GAMES: 15-10  3.92 ERA  1.236 WHIP

    (
    Note: Beckett was hurt in 2010. I don't believe in taking anything out of the equation. But I do believe in illuminating exceptions. Josh's ERA beyond 2010 is 3.75). Real GM's judge players in their healthy seasons.
    As you can see, there's not a whole lot of difference. Sabathia averages 23 mil a year, and can opt out of his contract at year's end.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Last two games: 14 IP 10 Hits 1 ER - for the "BUST"

    Could anyone tell me why Sabathia would opt out of $23 million a year?  I know he is the central cog of the EE dynastic plans and therefore the pressure is certainly high ...

       but I never understood opting out.

      Unless like Cincy's QB (Carson Palmer???), he has enough money and doesn't need the hassle any more.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimdavis. Show jimdavis's posts

    Re: Last two games: 14 IP 10 Hits 1 ER - for the "BUST"

    In Response to Re: Last two games: 14 IP 10 Hits 1 ER - for the "BUST":
    Beckett:              ERA     WHIP 2006     5.01      1.295    Down 2007     3.27      1.141    Up 2008     4.03      1.187    Down 2009     3.86      1.192    Sideways 2010     5.78      1.535    Down Down No smart GM would have given Beckett an extension before at least the All-Star break. Anyone claiming that he's ever been an ace in the true sense is not living the real world. When he's good, he's really good. Otherwise, he's decent but not any Ace consistent pitcher. Lester is more consistent, and Beckett has wrongly been called the Ace for years.
    Posted by BaseballGM


    The Ace tag comes with big game performance.  Until injuries, he was a big game pitcher like Schilling.  2003, 2007 were huge moments where he absolutely dominated.  He was poised to do the same in 2008 if he was not hurt.  The Yankee game in early April was a huge game for the Sox if not the league.  Sorry but Josh can take the ball any day on my team and I'll take my chances.  Theo knew more about the market, the agent, and the total situation than you do from your couch.  The extension was discussed and approved by management.  I'm surprised everyone made this huge mistake without consulting you!?
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimdavis. Show jimdavis's posts

    Re: Last two games: 14 IP 10 Hits 1 ER - for the "BUST"

    In Response to Re: Last two games: 14 IP 10 Hits 1 ER - for the "BUST":
    Could anyone tell me why Sabathia would opt out of $23 million a year?  I know he is the central cog of the EE dynastic plans and therefore the pressure is certainly high ...    but I never understood opting out.   Unless like Cincy's QB (Carson Palmer???), he has enough money and doesn't need the hassle any more.
    Posted by SinceYaz


    CC was  worried he would not like NYC.  He might still opt out and end up with more if he wants to head back west towards home.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Last two games: 14 IP 10 Hits 1 ER - for the "BUST"

    CC's been healthier than Josh. Beckett did bring some of this on himself with questionable off-season training. But I think he's learned his lesson. It'll be interesting to see who stays healthier over the next few years.
     
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    Re: Last two games: 14 IP 10 Hits 1 ER - for the "BUST"

    Let's hope Josh can right the ship tomorrow.
    I wonder why Cam didn't play tonight vs. the lefty.
     
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