Lavarnway Continues to Rake

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Lavarnway Continues to Rake

    In Response to Re: Lavarnway Continues to Rake:
    [QUOTE]Sox have another pretty good hitter in Portland named Chiang, who doesn't get the fanfare.
    Posted by bobbysu[/QUOTE]

    thats only cause he just came on strong this year..If he can keep improving over the next year, he will be noticed more..
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Lavarnway Continues to Rake

    In Response to Re: Lavarnway Continues to Rake:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Lavarnway Continues to Rake : I agree hugh, thats pretty much my way of judging talent.  Lavarnway seems to be very intelligent when it comes to adjusting at any level.  The talent for hitting is there and he makes looks pretty easy at times.
    Posted by craze4sox[/QUOTE]

    were finally going to have a good problem at the catcher position next year...
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxmeister. Show soxmeister's posts

    Re: Lavarnway Continues to Rake

    Sox won't let Ortiz walk, he is the heart of the Sox, one of the most popular players in recent history.  IMO it would be a disaster to let him go. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Lavarnway Continues to Rake

    In Response to Re: Lavarnway Continues to Rake:
    [QUOTE]southpaw777, i think that ortiz could be the odd man out as i do not see him accepting a two year contract at 8-10 m per year and i don't see the red sox offering him what he is getting now. this looks like one of those "they didn't show me any respect" type of situations that so many of the current players seem to worry about. plus, the yankees will give him at least what he is getting now for one year as they will think that playing 81 games in yankee stadium that ortiz will again be a 40-50 HR hitter.  and, they might be right.
    Posted by therimrattler[/QUOTE]Not to interrupt a thread about Lavarnway, but I am not so sure that the RS do offer only $8-$10M. The logic behind this was that salaries that Vladdy and Matsui were able to command. It is pretty apparent that Ortiz is clearly a cut above those guys at this point. The bigger question would be years. Just as many thought the RS wouldn't pick up David option this year and they did, predictions that they will get tight fisted over a couple of million may be off target.

    As for Larvanway, I think he gets at least another year to polish his catching skills. If he can become a quality catcher his value goes through the roof because of positional value. Therefore I doubt they rush to turn the player into a DH. 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Lavarnway Continues to Rake

    In Response to Re: Lavarnway Continues to Rake:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Lavarnway Continues to Rake : I hope your wrong about that..Id like to see papi is here for another 2 years..
    Posted by southpaw777[/QUOTE]

    Hey southpaw, Unfortunately Ortiz and Jason are in the same boat.  Lavarnway is a kid who could move either of them off the club if he continues this pace.  I may take some heat on this but I don't feel Tek or Papi would be the same on another club.  Jason, for the first time since being a rookie would need to learn an entirely new staff.  Papi would need good hitters around him in order to play as well as he is now.  I like Papi and Jason but there comes a time when you may need to bring in a talented kid, not only to save money but to keep him.

    Our management will be loyal to Jason, Papi and Wake as long as they can because of what they have done for our organization.  They all deserve this but it can't last forever.
     
  6. This post has been removed.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Lavarnway Continues to Rake

    In Response to Re: Lavarnway Continues to Rake:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Lavarnway Continues to Rake : Like Jeff Corsaletti, a couple years back.
    Posted by bobbysu[/QUOTE]

    That's actually a really good comparison, as far as offensive numbers go.  They are pretty much the opposite though as far as patience at the plate (Corsaletti was far more patient) and Corsaletti was a far better defender.

    Each player certainly develops differently, and the Sox saw enough in Chiangto give him a $375K signing bonus, but I'm far from convinced that Chiang will amount to anything that would directly benefit the Sox.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Lavarnway Continues to Rake

    In Response to Re: Lavarnway Continues to Rake:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Lavarnway Continues to Rake : Like Jeff Corsaletti, a couple years back.
    Posted by bobbysu[/QUOTE]

    I mentioned Chiang in the past but being a lefty in our organization will probably be overlooked because of Reddick and Kalish.  I would bet my last dollar Lavarnway is brought up by opposing GM's in any trade Theo tries to discuss.  Chiang in my opinion would also be a strong trade chip. 

    I hope we keep the kid!
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from joeyama99. Show joeyama99's posts

    Re: Lavarnway Continues to Rake

    In Response to Re: Lavarnway Continues to Rake:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Lavarnway Continues to Rake : I see Lavarnway being much more valuable as a C or DH than Napoli.  Ryan is capable of hitting L and RH pitching unlike Napoli.  Lavarnway also has a strong and pretty accuarate arm for throwing out runners.  If anything he needs more work behind the plate because he didn't play the position until late in his college career..
    Posted by craze4sox[/QUOTE]


    Maybe you're right, but Napoli is still pretty good.  I think some are setting the expectations a little too high by comparing him to VMART. (He's not a switch hitter I don't believe either) Give him time and let him continue to develop without such pressure and maybe down the line he'll be an ALL Star.  Look at someone like Matt Wieters, it's taking him quite a while to reach his potential.  But that's the exciting thing about prospects. . .the sky is the limit.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Lavarnway Continues to Rake

    In Response to Re: Lavarnway Continues to Rake:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Lavarnway Continues to Rake : I mentioned Chiang in the past but being a lefty in our organization right know will probably be overlooked because of Reddick and Kalish.  I would bet my last dollar Lavarnway is brought up by opposing GM's in any trade Theo tries to discuss.  Chiang in my opinion would also be a strong trade chip.  I hope we keep the kid!
    Posted by craze4sox[/QUOTE]

    What have you seen that makes you consider him (Chiang) a strong trade chip?

    Prior to this season, he had hit .300 or higher 1 season.  His highest seasonal OBP was .337 (same season as .303 batting average) and he posted an OPS of .797.  That would be fine if it was a regular season for him, but as a career high year, with terrible defense?  He's yet to post a season with a K:BB ratio below 2.

    Working in his favor is that he's been drawing more walks of late, setting career highs in walks each of the last 2 seasons, although his 2010 total was inflated by his elevated number of appearances (he played in 36 more games in 2010 than 2009) and he still only had 31 walks.  His power is certainly trending in the right direction, reaching double digit HR"s for the first time last season (11) and he now has 14 on the year.  Also, his defense can only improve as he spends more time in the OF.

    He's having a great offensive season and should be commended for that, but I don't see him having a role on the Red Sox.  Maybe he could benefit a NL team in a pinch hitting/5th OF type of role.  If he can continue making strides both at the plate and in the field, that would certainly change things, but it's far from a given considering his track record.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from 111SoxFan111. Show 111SoxFan111's posts

    Re: Lavarnway Continues to Rake

    "As for Larvanway, I think he gets at least another year to polish his catching skills. If he can become a quality catcher his value goes through the roof because of positional value. Therefore I doubt they rush to turn the player into a DH.  "

    Nice post Katz. Re: the quote above, do you see Tek back again next season?  I think Lavarnway makes that more of a question, but given Tek's likely cost (low) and how he is doing at the plate these days, I think he's likely back unless there is a major problem in the second half.  That seems to leave Ryan in AAA to start the year which isn't necessarily bad.

    Oh, and FWIW, I don't see Ortiz wearing anything but a Sox uni next year.  I predict two years + some sort of team/player 3rd year hi-low option.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Lavarnway Continues to Rake

    A lot of bright spots in the minor league system this year, no one considered Lavarnway a top prospect...but if what we are witnessing is real then he may very well be one of the best hitters to come out of our system in several years. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: Lavarnway Continues to Rake

    A couple things, Katz, I basically agree with your assessment or Ortiz. He's going to command at least $10 mil per year given this year's performance. And multiple years. I have him at a projected cost of $30 mil over 3 years. I'm sure everyone will want to keep it to 2 years but then a higher cost per year will be necessary. Ortiz has always been flexible in his salary demands but he may not be next year. What do we do if he does have another team offering more? I think we should at least consider letting him go in that instance, with Lavarnway waiting in the wings now, the 2 picks available and the increased roster flexibility we could get as well as the cost savings. I just don't see us bidding more than $30 mil for him going forward and we really do not know what we are going to get if we do even that.

    I want Ortiz back but we have to set a cost for him. Unfortunately he may be worth more to the Yanks than he will be worth to us. It could happen.

    And Katz, I also agree that we may want to just park Lavarnway in AAA to refine his defense which is near horrible right now overall. It's probably not acceptable yet for a mlb catcher and he could benefit from more development time in that area. We could wait and get more value out of our 6 year window when he does come up.

    I think a strong case could be made to bring back the existing tandem we have right now for 2012, with Lavarnway waiting down in AAA to back them up.

    Hugh, I know what you are saying regarding the street cred Lavarnway has gotten for example on soxprospects but there are a couple of us who have been arguing his case for 2 years now. I think I had him around #5 or 6 in last year's vote. Basically my thoughts were:

    1) He has consistently hit at a very high level even in college. Big time power, decent average and solid OBP. This guy has one of the best bats we've seen for a long time in the system. What he is best at is in producing runs. He drives them in and he scores them at a decent pace. If I remember correctly he almost drove in 1 run per game last year.

    2) He only started catching in college, around his sophmore year. He is very weak defensively but part of that is a lack of experience. Look at guys like Victor, who is also a very slow runner and in some ways unathletic. Think a RH Victor with a Yale brain. Victor is potentially a comparable bat IMO. Lavarnway projects for more power maybe but Victor is a higher average guy. I'd take the extra 10 HR personally.

    3) To me, the intangibles were an important part of my evaluation. This guy was a philosophy major at Yale. That sort of brain is very analytic, very detailed. I like his chances as a game caller going forward, and to me that is one of the most important aspects of being a successful catcher. Also, his arm is not that bad. 37% CS last I looked. I like drafting people who have proven success records in life. Especially at cerebral oriented positions like catcher.

    I'm hopeful!
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Lavarnway Continues to Rake

    As far as Tek goes, I think how he holds up for the rest of the year and how Salty holds up for the rest of the year will dictate that situation. If the current situation is what it is now, yes I think the RS have Tek back if he wants to play another year though it might cost the RS more than it did in 2011...

    Boom, you are right about the years and $$$. Now Ortiz may well bite at two for $24M to finish his career elsewhere at 3 for $30M. And we may be over estimating the NYY interest in an aging DH when they have a lot of aging guys who could use the PT there.

    But no doubt there is a breaking point where the RS would walk. That said if his season continues as it has, it leaves a big, big hole, as we saw during the 9 game NL road trip.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Lavarnway Continues to Rake

    You got me thinking Boom - 

    It's plausible to think that Lavarnway has the capability to really learn the hitters well and call a great game.  Being a product of Yale he is obviously bright, and knows what it is like to put a lot of time in to study and learn which I'm sure will be very helpfull when learning how to pitch to all the A.L hitters. 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: Lavarnway Continues to Rake

    In Response to Re: Lavarnway Continues to Rake:
    [QUOTE]A couple things, Katz, I basically agree with your assessment or Ortiz. He's going to command at least $10 mil per year given this year's performance. And multiple years. I have him at a projected cost of $30 mil over 3 years. I'm sure everyone will want to keep it to 2 years but then a higher cost per year will be necessary. Ortiz has always been flexible in his salary demands but he may not be next year. What do we do if he does have another team offering more? I think we should at least consider letting him go in that instance, with Lavarnway waiting in the wings now, the 2 picks available and the increased roster flexibility we could get as well as the cost savings. I just don't see us bidding more than $30 mil for him going forward and we really do not know what we are going to get if we do even that. I want Ortiz back but we have to set a cost for him. Unfortunately he may be worth more to the Yanks than he will be worth to us. It could happen. And Katz, I also agree that we may want to just park Lavarnway in AAA to refine his defense which is near horrible right now overall. It's probably not acceptable yet for a mlb catcher and he could benefit from more development time in that area. We could wait and get more value out of our 6 year window when he does come up. I think a strong case could be made to bring back the existing tandem we have right now for 2012, with Lavarnway waiting down in AAA to back them up. Hugh, I know what you are saying regarding the street cred Lavarnway has gotten for example on soxprospects but there are a couple of us who have been arguing his case for 2 years now. I think I had him around #5 or 6 in last year's vote. Basically my thoughts were: 1) He has consistently hit at a very high level even in college. Big time power, decent average and solid OBP. This guy has one of the best bats we've seen for a long time in the system. What he is best at is in producing runs. He drives them in and he scores them at a decent pace. If I remember correctly he almost drove in 1 run per game last year. 2) He only started catching in college, around his sophmore year. He is very weak defensively but part of that is a lack of experience. Look at guys like Victor, who is also a very slow runner and in some ways unathletic. Think a RH Victor with a Yale brain. Victor is potentially a comparable bat IMO. Lavarnway projects for more power maybe but Victor is a higher average guy. I'd take the extra 10 HR personally. 3) To me, the intangibles were an important part of my evaluation. This guy was a philosophy major at Yale. That sort of brain is very analytic, very detailed. I like his chances as a game caller going forward, and to me that is one of the most important aspects of being a successful catcher. Also, his arm is not that bad. 37% CS last I looked. I like drafting people who have proven success records in life. Especially at cerebral oriented positions like catcher. I'm hopeful!
    Posted by Boomerangsdotcom[/QUOTE]

    Booms, you kind of contradicted yourself here.  On one hand you're saying the Red Sox should be prepared to let Papi go; yet, on the other hand, you're saying Lavarnway needs more seasoning before they bring him up.  Unless Papi's demands are unreasonable (something like 3 yrs. at 12 mil plus), it serves the Red Sox well to give Lavarnway more time to develop as a catcher to see if he could be utilized in that role at the major league role even as a backup.  He may get his chance to show he can hit major league pitching this September, and definitely will next year if either catcher (or Papi) go on the DL.    
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Lavarnway Continues to Rake

    In Response to Re: Lavarnway Continues to Rake:
    [QUOTE]That said if his season continues as it has, it leaves a big, big hole, as we saw during the 9 game NL road trip.
    Posted by fivekatz[/QUOTE]

    I don't believe wouldn't leave as big of a hole as you think.  The lineups we saw in the NL parks would look a lot better with even a .750 OPS guy (Lavarnway as a rookie?) in the pitchers spot.  Now you're still talking about a significant drop off, but it's not like he'd be replaced by a pitcher and the money could be spent elsewhere.

    If the Sox can't bring back Papi next season, I wouldn't mind seeing the Sox carry 3 catchers, with Lavarnway primarily DHing while catching 1-2 games a week and learning from Tek and Tuck for a year.  Youk could slide to DH when Lavarnway catches in order to stay healthy, which is something he's struggled with at 3B this season.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Lavarnway Continues to Rake

    In Response to Re: Lavarnway Continues to Rake:
    [QUOTE]A couple things, Katz, I basically agree with your assessment or Ortiz. He's going to command at least $10 mil per year given this year's performance. And multiple years. I have him at a projected cost of $30 mil over 3 years. I'm sure everyone will want to keep it to 2 years but then a higher cost per year will be necessary. Ortiz has always been flexible in his salary demands but he may not be next year. What do we do if he does have another team offering more? I think we should at least consider letting him go in that instance, with Lavarnway waiting in the wings now, the 2 picks available and the increased roster flexibility we could get as well as the cost savings. I just don't see us bidding more than $30 mil for him going forward and we really do not know what we are going to get if we do even that. I want Ortiz back but we have to set a cost for him. Unfortunately he may be worth more to the Yanks than he will be worth to us. It could happen.

    Could happen? Who in there right mind is offering Ortiz anything more than one year? The Yankees already have enough DH types clogging the lineup. No way they even have remote interest in another player in his twilight.
    Sox offer Ortiz 1 year at $6-8 million and no one else in base ball even comes close to that offer. In addition, if some one other than the Sox was foolish enough to offer Ortiz 2 years at $10-12 million, he passes it up and still signs with the Sox.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from beavis. Show beavis's posts

    Re: Lavarnway Continues to Rake

    Had a .467 ba in 2007, lead NCAA...
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Lavarnway Continues to Rake

    Lavarnways issues have nothing to do with his mental capacity. He is simply too big and not athletic enough. Freaks like Maur are athletically off the charts and can handle the position...not many guys that size can do it. Lavarnways deficiencies are not "teachable" nor can they be overcome with experience. His size and lack of athleticism won't allow him to catch. 
    Assuming I am correct, does his bat play at DH?   
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Lavarnway Continues to Rake

    In Response to Re: Lavarnway Continues to Rake:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Lavarnway Continues to Rake : [QUOTE]A couple things, Katz, I basically agree with your assessment or Ortiz. He's going to command at least $10 mil per year given this year's performance. And multiple years. I have him at a projected cost of $30 mil over 3 years. I'm sure everyone will want to keep it to 2 years but then a higher cost per year will be necessary. Ortiz has always been flexible in his salary demands but he may not be next year. What do we do if he does have another team offering more? I think we should at least consider letting him go in that instance, with Lavarnway waiting in the wings now, the 2 picks available and the increased roster flexibility we could get as well as the cost savings. I just don't see us bidding more than $30 mil for him going forward and we really do not know what we are going to get if we do even that. I want Ortiz back but we have to set a cost for him. Unfortunately he may be worth more to the Yanks than he will be worth to us. It could happen. Could happen? Who in there right mind is offering Ortiz anything more than one year? The Yankees already have enough DH types clogging the lineup. No way they even have remote interest in another player in his twilight. Sox offer Ortiz 1 year at $6-8 million and no one else in base ball even comes close to that offer. In addition, if some one other than the Sox was foolish enough to offer Ortiz 2 years at $10-12 million, he passes it up and still signs with the Sox.
    Posted by rkarp[/QUOTE]

    The Yankees don't want an aging Papi but they will be looking for a big bat in RF or at DH very soon.  Fielder stated today he may be willing to become a DH, then you also have the possibility of Albert next season.  Swisher, in my opinion will be gone after or during the season.  Swish has a team option next season of 10 plus mil.  The Yanks might be smart to create a package of youngsters that includes Swisher for Kemp.

    I don't see the Yankee management settling for their current DH and RF's.  Its simply not their style when a bigger gun becomes available.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Lavarnway Continues to Rake

    In Response to Re: Lavarnway Continues to Rake:
    [QUOTE]Lavarnways issues have nothing to do with his mental capacity. He is simply too big and not athletic enough. Freaks like Maur are athletically off the charts and can handle the position...not many guys that size can do it. Lavarnways deficiencies are not "teachable" nor can they be overcome with experience. His size and lack of athleticism won't allow him to catch.  Assuming I am correct, does his bat play at DH?   
    Posted by rkarp[/QUOTE]

    Come on rkarp,

    Lavarnway is 6/4 225 just like guys like Salty, Wieters and other shorter but less agile players like Tek.  You make the kid out to be chubby and clumsy which isn't true.  He just began catching in his senior year "I believe" and he is far from being a guy who can't learn as he plays more.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: Lavarnway Continues to Rake

    In Response to Re: Lavarnway Continues to Rake:
    [QUOTE]You got me thinking Boom -  It's plausible to think that Lavarnway has the capability to really learn the hitters well and call a great game.  Being a product of Yale he is obviously bright, and knows what it is like to put a lot of time in to study and learn which I'm sure will be very helpfull when learning how to pitch to all the A.L hitters. 
    Posted by ctredsoxfanhugh[/QUOTE]

    He's been spending his time learning phrases like "teleological suspension of the ethical" and reading people like Moonie's Neitzche. I think he become a terrific game caller. I really think this guy has a lot of potential. A lot more than he has been given credit for ever in this system. 
     
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Lavarnway Continues to Rake

    In Response to Re: Lavarnway Continues to Rake:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Lavarnway Continues to Rake : Come on rkarp, Lavarnway is 6/4 225 just like guys like Salty, Wieters and other shorter but less agile players like Tek.  You make the kid out to be chubby and clumsy which isn't true.  He just began catching in his senior year "I believe" and he is far from being a guy who can't learn as he plays more.
    Posted by craze4sox[/QUOTE]

    To me, as an athlete it is really hard to judge someone "athleticism" without keeping a few things in mind.  First you need to actually measure their raw  athleticism, how quick are they, how fast can he pop up to his feet, how fast they can release a throw.  While the fundamentals can be taught for all of these athletic talent has a natural component.  More importantly is how it is functional to the position played;  anyone can tell a model is hot by looking at her, but they walk down the runway for a reason.  How do raw athletic attributes convert into talent, and how is it measured?  One thing I have learned is you can't judge someones athleticism by just weight and height.....yes the 800 Lb gorilla in the room is likely not an athlete but you can't tell by looking at someone if they are flexible or inflexible, or whether or not they have more fast twitch/slow twitch muscle fibers.  

    Athletes come in all shapes and sizes and in some sports/positions size is more important to the function of the skill set needed than others. An example of this would be a defensive lineman in the NFL or a pitcher in baseball.  Other positions are much less important.  I would imagine the athleticism behind the plate is more related to the skill set and less than the raw build of an athlete.  At 6'4 220 LB's lavarnway doesn't seem to be much bigger than some hall of fame catchers (gary carter/ carlton fisk)

    So unless someone can show me some stats on his catch and release and his pop up time in comparission with other catching prospects...I don't know why anyone is going to question the athletic ability of Ryan Lavarnway. 

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: Lavarnway Continues to Rake

    In Response to Re: Lavarnway Continues to Rake:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Lavarnway Continues to Rake : Booms, you kind of contradicted yourself here.  On one hand you're saying the Red Sox should be prepared to let Papi go; yet, on the other hand, you're saying Lavarnway needs more seasoning before they bring him up.  Unless Papi's demands are unreasonable (something like 3 yrs. at 12 mil plus), it serves the Red Sox well to give Lavarnway more time to develop as a catcher to see if he could be utilized in that role at the major league role even as a backup.  He may get his chance to show he can hit major league pitching this September, and definitely will next year if either catcher (or Papi) go on the DL.    
    Posted by Sheriff-Rojas[/QUOTE]

    Sheriff "rope em" Rojas!

    Good to see you in from the range after rustling up varmints like "The Babe" and "Softlaw". It seems that some of these guys have inspired "imitators" who still need some rustling! As one of your trusted deputies, like Harness and many others here on this forum...I stand ready! I've got my cowboy boots on and I haven't even had sex lately! I'm ready!

    I was saying that Lavarnway could use time if needed at catcher, and could certainly benefit from that time. If we did make a decision on Ortiz though, and let him go this winter, I think Lavarnway's bat is probably ready now. We will probably see in September. We should deputize him also as he can read them their rights in flowery "divinity school" original latin!
     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share