Lefty righty question

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Lefty righty question

    Why are so many wanting a RH hitter in the OF?

    Why can teams be over loaded with right handed bats but not with left handed bats?
    If a guy hits 280 to 310 with 15+ HR and 75 RBI what does it matter if he is lefty or righty?
    I understand the want to have a balanced L/R line up but if they have Reddick or Kalish or another lefty out there and they give you the production what does it matter?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Lefty righty question

    Nothing, but wouldn't you rather continue to see Nararro in the line-up instead of Reddick?
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from tbrod. Show tbrod's posts

    Re: Lefty righty question

    Duh! It's called BALANCE.
    Show me one team that won anything without a balanced lineup. The Phils lost Jason Werth, and they're desperately looking for a right handed outfielder. They get it.
    Also, this team plays in Fenway Park with the wall a short distance away.
    Any time someone like Pedroia or Youk comes up, a 310 foot fly could be a homer.
    The Yankees load up on lefties with their short right field porch, but they have ARod and Jeter plus switch hitters for balance.
    Did you like seeing Manny, Lowell, Bay and Beltre up at Fenway, during their time with the Sox?
    Reddick can bash the mighty O's all he wants, but when September comes, his current streak will be a memory.
    Theo has the minors loaded with smallish lefty hitters. I don't know what his crush on this type of player is.
    How is it that the lowly Florida Marlins can develop monsters like Stanton and Sanchez, and the Sox haven't had one right handed corner hitter from the minors since Youk, and he was from the previous GM's reign? Oh yeah, the Marlins have the best right handed hitter the Sox developed since Nomar......Hanley Ramirez.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Lefty righty question

    In Response to Re: Lefty righty question:
    Duh! It's called BALANCE. Show me one team that won anything without a balanced lineup.
     The Phils lost Jason Werth, and they're desperately looking for a right handed outfielder. They get it. Also, this team plays in Fenway Park with the wall a short distance away. Any time someone like Pedroia or Youk comes up, a 310 foot fly could be a homer. The Yankees load up on lefties with their short right field porch, but they have ARod and Jeter plus switch hitters for balance. Did you like seeing Manny, Lowell, Bay and Beltre up at Fenway, during their time with the Sox? Reddick can bash the mighty O's all he wants, but when September comes, his current streak will be a memory. Theo has the minors loaded with smallish lefty hitters. I don't know what his crush on this type of player is. How is it that the lowly Florida Marlins can develop monsters like Stanton and Sanchez, and the Sox haven't had one right handed corner hitter from the minors since Youk, and he was from the previous GM's reign? Oh yeah, the Marlins have the best right handed hitter the Sox developed since Nomar......Hanley Ramirez.
    Posted by tbrod

    The duh was uncalled for since I said I understood balance.
    BTW many think Terry is crazy to have a L/R line up all the time
    You still did not answer the question the RS have RH Navarro, Sutton, Macdonald, Pedroia, Youk and Scutaro.
    They have lefties Crawford, Ortiz, Agon, Ellsbury and Reddick/Drew.
    They have SW Tek, Salty, & Lowrie.
    Yes I liked the guys you mentioned but would not give up Agon for any one of them.
    As asked what does it matter if they guy is lefty or righty if you get a 280 to 300 ave with 15+ HR and 75+ RBI?
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Lefty righty question

    In Response to Lefty righty question:
    Why are so many wanting a RH hitter in the OF? Why can teams be over loaded with right handed bats but not with left handed bats? If a guy hits 280 to 310 with 15+ HR and 75 RBI what does it matter if he is lefty or righty? I understand the want to have a balanced L/R line up but if they have Reddick or Kalish or another lefty out there and they give you the production what does it matter?
    Posted by JimfromFlorida


    The only thing I want to see are OF's who don't need a platoon partner like Drew.  Ells can hit anyone pretty well, it would be nice to find a similar player whether he be a lefty or righty which is why many of us mentioned Pence.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: Lefty righty question

    Generally , it has been a part of managerial strategy to sit lefthand batters against tough lefthanded pitchers. This is not news.

    Lefthand batters do not "see" the ball out of the pitching hand of the lefthand pitcher well.

    You seldom see great righthand hitters sit against "tough" righty pitchers. Righthand hitters face a lot of righties so the problem of "seeing" the ball is not as pronounced.

    But of course, this is not a 100% , all the time, guarantee.

    It's just playing the percentages, and good managers are usually not gamblers, they do the safe thing. And they will be right more than they are wrong.

    And as Dick Williams would have said, "the object is not to win every game....but to win more than you lose."
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Lefty righty question

    In Response to Re: Lefty righty question:
    Duh! It's called BALANCE. Show me one team that won anything without a balanced lineup. The Phils lost Jason Werth, and they're desperately looking for a right handed outfielder. They get it. Also, this team plays in Fenway Park with the wall a short distance away. Any time someone like Pedroia or Youk comes up, a 310 foot fly could be a homer. The Yankees load up on lefties with their short right field porch, but they have ARod and Jeter plus switch hitters for balance. Did you like seeing Manny, Lowell, Bay and Beltre up at Fenway, during their time with the Sox? Reddick can bash the mighty O's all he wants, but when September comes, his current streak will be a memory. Theo has the minors loaded with smallish lefty hitters. I don't know what his crush on this type of player is. How is it that the lowly Florida Marlins can develop monsters like Stanton and Sanchez, and the Sox haven't had one right handed corner hitter from the minors since Youk, and he was from the previous GM's reign? Oh yeah, the Marlins have the best right handed hitter the Sox developed since Nomar......Hanley Ramirez.
    Posted by tbrod


    Some might argue the Giant's won one without a lineup...

    The Sox lineup / roster was plenty balanced when they broke camp. Like every other team come July it's now time for them to make adjustements to address the underperformnce of our RF platoon of grey beards Drew & Cameron. If you look at our lineup 1-9 including the bench not sure a team could be more "balanced".

    Ells L
    Pedrioa R
    Gonzales L
    Youk R
    Ortiz L
    Crawford L / Cameron R
    Saltalamacchia/Varitek S
    Drew L / Cameron R
    Scutaro R / Lowrie S

    FYI for those that continue to beat the dead horse, about us having to many lefty bats in our OF. The Sox are 19-11 vs lefthanded starters dispite the lackluster performaces of both Cameron & D-Mac who both were on the roster to offset the all lefty starting OF and trust me by the end of this month Epstein will likely add the "missing link" and DFA D-Mac...
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from tbrod. Show tbrod's posts

    Re: Lefty righty question

    My apologies, Jim for the "duh!"
    The real power on this team is from the left side of the plate.
    Nobody has replaced Beltre, Lowell, Manny, or Bay's production in a Sox uniform and their power from right side. All of those players were 30-100 players at points in their careers. Not a single Sox righty on this roster can say that .
    Zilla gets what I'm saying.
    The Giants had Posey, Burrell, Uribe, Rentaria Sanchez and Ross to balance Huff, and Sandoval was a switch hitter.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Lefty righty question

    In Response to Lefty righty question:
    Why are so many wanting a RH hitter in the OF? Why can teams be over loaded with right handed bats but not with left handed bats? If a guy hits 280 to 310 with 15+ HR and 75 RBI what does it matter if he is lefty or righty? I understand the want to have a balanced L/R line up but if they have Reddick or Kalish or another lefty out there and they give you the production what does it matter?
    Posted by JimfromFlorida


    Jim, if you look at the splits, the answer is clear as day.
    You get the best of both worlds.
    Yaz was a career .244 hitter vs. leftys.
    Had CAM cut it, the team wouldn't be as susceptible vs. southpaws.
    Look at the BA's of Youk/Pedey/Mac/Cam - and compare it to Ellsbury/CC/AGONE/Papi.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Lefty righty question

    This team has serious issues vs LHPs. Guys like Papi and Pedey greatly improving their recent splits vs LHPs has been a huge lift, but the fact is we have 2 awful starting OF'ers vs LHPs: Crawford and Drew. Neither can be counted on to have a .700+ OPS vs LHPs. This team expects better from 2/3rds of it's OF. Cam and DMac were supposed to help in that area, but Tito hasn't platooned them much and not it's up to DMac and Reddick. They both are pretty big gambles for a team looking for a ring. I'm not saying they can't do it, but picking up a good value RH'd OF'er this deadline could help. 

    If you look at the last 3 years numbers of our starters vs LHPs, it is frightening. Only Youk has excellent numbers vs lefties for the 3 year sample size. Guys like Ellsbury and Scutaro are pretty balanced vs both over their careers and over the last 3-4 years, but they do not have great numbers vs LHPs. Although Pedey is a RH'd hitter, he had 2 bad years recently vs lefties. VTek hits lefties much better than righties (except for the small sample size this year), but Tito is not platooning VTek & Salty by L/R splits, but rather by who we are pitching that day. AGon hits lefties well, but has an up and down career vs them. 

    I do not like Tito's obsession with alternating L/R/L's in the line-up, but that's not going to change any time soon.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Lefty righty question

    In Response to Re: Lefty righty question:
    Duh! It's called BALANCE. Show me one team that won anything without a balanced lineup. The Phils lost Jason Werth, and they're desperately looking for a right handed outfielder. They get it. Also, this team plays in Fenway Park with the wall a short distance away. Any time someone like Pedroia or Youk comes up, a 310 foot fly could be a homer. The Yankees load up on lefties with their short right field porch, but they have ARod and Jeter plus switch hitters for balance. Did you like seeing Manny, Lowell, Bay and Beltre up at Fenway, during their time with the Sox? Reddick can bash the mighty O's all he wants, but when September comes, his current streak will be a memory. Theo has the minors loaded with smallish lefty hitters. I don't know what his crush on this type of player is. How is it that the lowly Florida Marlins can develop monsters like Stanton and Sanchez, and the Sox haven't had one right handed corner hitter from the minors since Youk, and he was from the previous GM's reign? Oh yeah, the Marlins have the best right handed hitter the Sox developed since Nomar......Hanley Ramirez.
    Posted by tbrod


    Gaby Sanchez is a "monster"?  Really?

    The reason the Sox don't draft as many power hitting corners is because of their draft strategy of taking up the middle players in the higher rounds.  Power-hitting corner INF/OF types are typically the hardest to project and have a very low success rate, and are more difficult to move to new positions.  Athletic SS/CF types can be moved around more readily, but sometimes lack the overall power of other players.

    Oh, wait. you probably needed someone to discuss RBI, since it is the only stat you understand...
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from tbrod. Show tbrod's posts

    Re: Lefty righty question

    What a condescending stooge you are little man.
    Gaby Sanchez at 25 is an up and coming power hitter, who your hero Theo looked into trying to get in a trade a couple of years ago.
    Guess you only follow the home team, right?
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Lefty righty question

    In Response to Re: Lefty righty question:
    This team has serious issues vs LHPs. Guys like Papi and Pedey greatly improving their recent splits vs LHPs has been a huge lift, but the fact is we have 2 awful starting OF'ers vs LHPs: Crawford and Drew. Neither can be counted on to have a .700+ OPS vs LHPs. This team expects better from 2/3rds of it's OF. Cam and DMac were supposed to help in that area, but Tito hasn't platooned them much and not it's up to DMac and Reddick. They both are pretty big gambles for a team looking for a ring. I'm not saying they can't do it, but picking up a good value RH'd OF'er this deadline could help.  If you look at the last 3 years numbers of our starters vs LHPs, it is frightening. Only Youk has excellent numbers vs lefties for the 3 year sample size. Guys like Ellsbury and Scutaro are pretty balanced vs both over their careers and over the last 3-4 years, but they do not have great numbers vs LHPs. Although Pedey is a RH'd hitter, he had 2 bad years recently vs lefties. VTek hits lefties much better than righties (except for the small sample size this year), but Tito is not platooning VTek & Salty by L/R splits, but rather by who we are pitching that day. AGon hits lefties well, but has an up and down career vs them.  I do not like Tito's obsession with alternating L/R/L's in the line-up, but that's not going to change any time soon.
    Posted by moonslav59


    Hey Moon,

    Sorry but I have to agree to disagree with your opening stament from above "This team has serious issues vs lefthanded starters". The facts don't support that statement, or as the oldage goes, your as good and your record say's you are...According to MLB splits as of this morning the Sox this year are 21-11 vs lefthanded starters which is a .656 winning pct or on pace to win 105 games over 162 game schedule (if we only faced lefties). We're 33-24 vs righties or a paltry .589 winning pct using the same math would give us 90 win and we'd be in a dog fight for the wildcard.

    Pitching, defense and timely hitting are the keys, not individual's splits...Our offense is among the best and so too is our ability to catch the ball.

    Again I get that we have a need add a righthanded bat to replace Cameron and trust me so too does Theo and I am confident he'll add one before the deadline...Sometimes the math (stats) can be misleading. Lefty/righty splits aside, sometimes you have to take the lessor of two evils. Especially in the the AL East. Where you got CY caliber lefties in CC & Price who are tough on all hitters and entering this year Pedrioa was something in the neighborhood of 1 for 30 against both and he hits from the right side of the plate. I belive we're 4-0 vs CC this year. My guess is that every team or a majority of teams struggle to put the ball in play vs the elite group of both lefties and righties. Not to mention the casue and effect that facing a tough lefty specilist has on a particular guys overall numbers...
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from law2009a. Show law2009a's posts

    Re: Lefty righty question

    m
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: Lefty righty question

    Am I to believe that a left handed batter that hits .300 against right handed pitchers and .244 against left handed pitchers, is not as good, against a left handed pitcher, as a right handed batter that hits .150 would be???????  Really?????
    I guess balance makes up the difference..  Laughing
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from law2009a. Show law2009a's posts

    Re: Lefty righty question

    m
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Lefty righty question

    "What a condescending stooge you are little man.
    Gaby Sanchez at 25 is an up and coming power hitter, who your hero Theo looked into trying to get in a trade a couple of years ago.
    Guess you only follow the home team, right? "

    Gaby Sanchez is nearly 28.  He is actually older than Ellsbury, Mr. Math.

    He is a respectable hitter.  But by no means is he a monster.  An .812 OPS and 34HRs at age 28 do not a monster make.  His similar players by age list includes noteworthy names like Larry Sheets, Paul Sorrento and Joe Charboneau.  Yes, THAT Joe Charboneau.

    Whether Epstein tried to get him or not does not make him a monster.  Epstein tries to get a lot of players.  Probably 10 for every one we hear about.

    Sanchez migth not have peaked as a hitter already, but probably isn't far from it.  He is by no means an "up and coming" power hitter.  He never hit more than 17HRs or slugged higher than .450 in the minors.  Given than he has already peaked physdically, why do you think he will exceed those totals in the majors?

    Had Sanchez been one of the players the Sox developed, you would still be complaining the lack of power hitters the team developed, still be ignoring the simple explanation I already gave you (you know, the part of that post you did not comment on , it only made up about 95% so I can see how you missed it), and Sanchez would be on the list of players you complained about as you pointed out we had this corner INF who routinely has an ISOP comparable to our homegrown 2b.

    Probably because you are the one who only follows the home team.  When was the last time you watched a game between two non-Red sox teams?


     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from tbrod. Show tbrod's posts

    Re: Lefty righty question

    Last night Stooge.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from 111SoxFan111. Show 111SoxFan111's posts

    Re: Lefty righty question

    In Response to Re: Lefty righty question:
    Last night Stooge.
    Posted by tbrod

    Wow, nice response.  You refuted every point he made.  Um, no wait, you only said you watched a ball game last night.  How many SN's do you have now???
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from tbrod. Show tbrod's posts

    Re: Lefty righty question

    No moron, the issue is of right handed corner power.
    I'v had a couple of lengthly post, while
    You've brought squat to the discussion and you
    chime in like some little girl.
    Oh ,and the Marlins a few years ago developed a better right handed hitter than the Sox have ever developed in thier long history.
    Future Hall of famer Miguel Cabrera.
    Also, notice the Stooge stayed away from discussing Mike Stanton.
    So, other organizations develop power hitting corner players, but Theo's grand philosophy means the Sox can't develop ONE such player during his entire reign. Oh, well, that makes sense. Yeah, right.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Lefty righty question

    RH power hitter is one thing this team is missing offensively.

    Of course we do have the best offense in baseball (stat wise), however it does give a playoff team with a good bullpen, and good lefties a nuetralizing factor against that.

    With the reemergence of Reddick as a prospect, it may not be a bad time to sell high on the kid and package him with another prospect + for a good RH RF. 
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Lefty righty question

    "No moron, the issue is of right handed corner power.
    I'v had a couple of lengthly post, while
    You've brought squat to the discussion and you
    chime in like some little girl.
    Oh ,and the Marlins a few years ago developed a better right handed hitter than the Sox have ever developed in thier long history.
    Future Hall of famer Miguel Cabrera.
    Also, notice the Stooge stayed away from discussing Mike Stanton.
    So, other organizations develop power hitting corner players, but Theo's grand philosophy means the Sox can't develop ONE such player during his entire reign. Oh, well, that makes sense. Yeah, right.
    "

    First of all, using the term “Stooge” on someone with a Moe Howard avatar might be neither as insulting nor perceptive as you seem to think it is.

    I did not ignore Mike Stanton.  I merely questioned calling Gaby Sanchez a “monster”, because, frankly, he isn’t.  I told you why he isn’t, and you did not refute it or have anything in the way of a response, except to change the subject.  Had Sanchez come through the Sox system and been stationed at 1B, he would be the third best right-handed hitter in the current lineup to come up through the Sox system.  Your fascination with him is merely a case of the grass being greener.  Or tealer, in this case.

    As for Stanton, (also knows as “The Subject Change”), he absolutely is a right-handed monster.  But let’s not pretend hitters like him come along every season.  Only Justin Upton has more raw power from the right side.  That you had to include Cabrera furthers this point – even the Marlins only had 2 such hitters during Epstein’s entire regime, and Cabrera was brought into that organization before Epstein took over.  (Nine year veteran Miguel Cabrera, by the way, is also younger than “up and coming” Gaby Sanchez.)  Downplaying the Sox farm system becyase the Marlins have Miguel Cabrera is also short-sighted.  Assuming Cabrera does not ruin himself physically, he could end up as the best hitter the game has seen since Hank Aaron.  Shall we therefore use him to show why every team except Florida is clearly being run incorrectly?

    As I explained to you before, the Sox drafting strategy appears to me to focus on up the middle players (2B, SS, CF) in the earlier rounds.  The cost of this drafting strategy is that you will miss out on corner power types.  But given that the Sox typically draft towards to end of the round anyway, those higher profile players are usually gone.  The end result is they wind up with talented and versatile athletes with undetermined positions, but are also not as limited with their options as they progress through the minors.  Are there shortcomings? Yes, there will be a lack of guys power hitting corner bats, like Stanton.  But in the long run, the system appears to be working.

    Just because the Marlins were able to succeed with Stanton does not make their drafting strategy foolproof or better.  How many high draft picks and international free agent dollars did they spend on other RHH corner power bats who did nothing?  Or simply taking high profile corner OF, such as Jeremy Hermida?  They also took Matt Dominguez as an early first round pick, and he figures to offer very little beyond defense as a 3B.  For every Mike Stanton, the Marlins drafted there were a few guys like Aaron Bates (whom the Marlins also drafted, the year before the Sox did) or Robert Word.

    The Marlins drafting is typically more aggressive with regards to these talents than the Sox are.  Power hitting OF is very difficult to project and usually the riskiest for higher draft picks.  So teams less willing to gamble will not acquire these players.  Teams more willing to will occasionally pick a winner, but will also experience enough failures to balance it out.  This is not difficult to figure out.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from tbrod. Show tbrod's posts

    Re: Lefty righty question

    The "stooge" reference was tongue in cheek.
    I love the 3 Stooges.
    I understand what you're saying regarding the team's drafting philosophy.
    It almost precludes power, which is still and important component in MLB.
    Theo has used his farm to obtain Adrian Gonzalez to make up for this shortcoming. I guess that's one way to overcome the power issue.
    The Marlins, in their short time in existence also won two World Series, the second after decimating their team in a firesale.
    That they rebuilt a championship team not much later speaks to their blueprint for putting a team together at the time. 
    I honestly thought Sanchez was younger than 27. My mistake.
    By the way, the Sox tried to get Stanton from the Marlins in 2008, when they were trying to trade Manny.
    As for the anti-righty status quo lovers, you are joined by that bastion of sports knowledge, Mikey Adams. Ugh!
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Lefty righty question

    As you said, their drafting philosphy precludes power.  I can almost agree with that.  A better way might be to say it does not emphasize power, as they have drafted a lot of power hitters, they just didn't all work out.  Lars Anderson being a recent question mark.  In fact, how many people remember that the Sox drafted both Matt LaPorta and Brandon Belt before Anderson?  They aslso drafted Steven Pearce at one point. 

    Even drafting up the middle athletes has had notable failures.  Jason Place for example.  But we've also seen how easily they get repostioned.  David Murphy is a prime example as he rarely plays CF anymore.

    As you said, the talent can be dealt for power.  It does leave a notable hole in the farm system, but the Sox do seem to eb able to fill it at the top level.

    And who doesn't like the 3 stooges? 
     
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