Lester & Vaseline?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Lester & Vaseline?

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
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    If you have an opportunity to make an out you take it.  thats not kicking your opponent unless maybe you're playing t-ball.  No one else (including the cardinals) seemed to be offended.  There is no clock, this is the World Series and outs are a precious commodity

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    I can only assume that you've never played at level past Little League.  Experience has told me that when you do unnecessary things such as this, you give your opponent extra incentive to beat your butt.......Again, what Vic did was very unique.......

    [/QUOTE]

    So... are you saying that playing in the World Series ISN'T enough incentive for the Cardinals?

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Lester & Vaseline?

    You simply do not do something that can greatly tick off your opponent when the upside to doing so is pretty much nil.............

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Lester & Vaseline?

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    You simply do not do something that can greatly tick off your opponent when the upside to doing so is pretty much nil.............

    [/QUOTE]

    I get that Andrew, I do.  I just think you are off base.  You try to get 27 outs however possible, and you dont give up potential outs, ever.  I do not see anything there that would make the Cardinals ticked off.  It wasnt a dirty play, take out slide, showing up a pitcher, just an aggressive unexpected attempt to get an out where there seemingly was none.  I do think the Cardinals will come out tonight ticked off ... because they are ticked off at themselves.  That play is a non-issue.  

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from illinoisredsox. Show illinoisredsox's posts

    Re: Lester & Vaseline?

    Accrding to a little video clip on the STLToday website, the substance was supposedly something called FirmGrip.  So it sounds like it was akin to using some pine tar on the fingertips.  Technically against the rules but something that umps pretty much overlook unless the pitcher is loading up the baseball with it.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Lester & Vaseline?

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    You simply do not do something that can greatly tick off your opponent when the upside to doing so is pretty much nil.............

    [/QUOTE]

    I get that Andrew, I do.  I just think you are off base.  You try to get 27 outs however possible, and you dont give up potential outs, ever.  I do not see anything there that would make the Cardinals ticked off.  It wasnt a dirty play, take out slide, showing up a pitcher, just an aggressive unexpected attempt to get an out where there seemingly was none.  I do think the Cardinals will come out tonight ticked off ... because they are ticked off at themselves.  That play is a non-issue.  

    [/QUOTE]


    Are you sure you get that?  Because it was showing up a hitter, big time. 

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Lester & Vaseline?

    the glove thing is blowing up.  gonna take over this series today.   unfortunate for Lester.

    hope it doesnt distract the Sox.  this is.......not good.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Lester & Vaseline?

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    You simply do not do something that can greatly tick off your opponent when the upside to doing so is pretty much nil.............



    I get that Andrew, I do.  I just think you are off base.  You try to get 27 outs however possible, and you dont give up potential outs, ever.  I do not see anything there that would make the Cardinals ticked off.  It wasnt a dirty play, take out slide, showing up a pitcher, just an aggressive unexpected attempt to get an out where there seemingly was none.  I do think the Cardinals will come out tonight ticked off ... because they are ticked off at themselves.  That play is a non-issue.  

    [/QUOTE]


    Are you sure you get that?  Because it was showing up a hitter, big time. 

    [/QUOTE]

    OK.  Let us parce this out.  Why?

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Lester & Vaseline?

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    You simply do not do something that can greatly tick off your opponent when the upside to doing so is pretty much nil.............

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I get that Andrew, I do.  I just think you are off base.  You try to get 27 outs however possible, and you dont give up potential outs, ever.  I do not see anything there that would make the Cardinals ticked off.  It wasnt a dirty play, take out slide, showing up a pitcher, just an aggressive unexpected attempt to get an out where there seemingly was none.  I do think the Cardinals will come out tonight ticked off ... because they are ticked off at themselves.  That play is a non-issue.  

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Are you sure you get that?  Because it was showing up a hitter, big time. 

    [/QUOTE]

    OK.  Let us parce this out.  Why?

     

    [/QUOTE]


    The guy got a base hit.  Vic was playing him shallow as if he had no chance of dumping one over his head.  After what happened to Neli that was just dumb.  Regardless, it was like Vic saying, you are not a fast runner and I am going to gun your butt down....And who are you to get a hit off of of us.....Have you ever been in a game where an opposing player did something like that to you or your team??  Maybe that is why it doesn't bug you......I dont know.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Lester & Vaseline?

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    You simply do not do something that can greatly tick off your opponent when the upside to doing so is pretty much nil.............

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I get that Andrew, I do.  I just think you are off base.  You try to get 27 outs however possible, and you dont give up potential outs, ever.  I do not see anything there that would make the Cardinals ticked off.  It wasnt a dirty play, take out slide, showing up a pitcher, just an aggressive unexpected attempt to get an out where there seemingly was none.  I do think the Cardinals will come out tonight ticked off ... because they are ticked off at themselves.  That play is a non-issue.  

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Are you sure you get that?  Because it was showing up a hitter, big time. 

    [/QUOTE]

    OK.  Let us parce this out.  Why?

     

    [/QUOTE]


    The guy got a base hit.  Vic was playing him shallow as if he had no chance of dumping one over his head.  After what happened to Neli that was just dumb.  Regardless, it was like Vic saying, you are not a fast runner and I am going to gun your butt down....And who are you to get a hit off of of us.....Have you ever been in a game where an opposing player did something like that to you or your team??  Maybe that is why it doesn't bug you......I dont know.

    [/QUOTE]

    OK.  I would guess he was playing him shallow based on the scouting report and also the fact that he is not a fast runner, thus making this potential out a possibility.  

    And, while I agree that it was like Vic saying "you are not a fast runnerand I am going to gun your butt down", I think you are projecting a negative thought that just isnt there when you say "who are you to get a hit off us".

    Look, I am sorry if you got gunned down by a right fielder at first base back in the day.  If it made you mad, I am sorry.  

    But, there is nothing even remotely disrespectful, cheap, pouring-it-on, nothing about that play.

    You will notice that there is no one who sees it the way you do.  Not the Cardinals.  Not Cards fans (who have done their share of whining and crying foul today, so they might have piped up about this egregious act), no one in the press, no one on this board.

    Vic made a gamble with his positioning and then followed through on the chips falling where they did in that gamble.  

    I have played a lot of baseball, a lot of sports in general, and I care a lot about sportsmanship.  I just don't see one tiny bit of poor sportsmanship in that play.  The fact that it is a rare occorence for a potential out to be made at first base on a hit to right does not make it poor sportsmanship.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Lester & Vaseline?

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
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    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

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    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    You simply do not do something that can greatly tick off your opponent when the upside to doing so is pretty much nil.............

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I get that Andrew, I do.  I just think you are off base.  You try to get 27 outs however possible, and you dont give up potential outs, ever.  I do not see anything there that would make the Cardinals ticked off.  It wasnt a dirty play, take out slide, showing up a pitcher, just an aggressive unexpected attempt to get an out where there seemingly was none.  I do think the Cardinals will come out tonight ticked off ... because they are ticked off at themselves.  That play is a non-issue.  

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Are you sure you get that?  Because it was showing up a hitter, big time. 

    [/QUOTE]

    OK.  Let us parce this out.  Why?

     

    [/QUOTE]


    The guy got a base hit.  Vic was playing him shallow as if he had no chance of dumping one over his head.  After what happened to Neli that was just dumb.  Regardless, it was like Vic saying, you are not a fast runner and I am going to gun your butt down....And who are you to get a hit off of of us.....Have you ever been in a game where an opposing player did something like that to you or your team??  Maybe that is why it doesn't bug you......I dont know.

    [/QUOTE]

    OK.  I would guess he was playing him shallow based on the scouting report and also the fact that he is not a fast runner, thus making this potential out a possibility.  

    And, while I agree that it was like Vic saying "you are not a fast runnerand I am going to gun your butt down", I think you are projecting a negative thought that just isnt there when you say "who are you to get a hit off us".

    Look, I am sorry if you got gunned down by a right fielder at first base back in the day.  If it made you mad, I am sorry.  

    But, there is nothing even remotely disrespectful, cheap, pouring-it-on, nothing about that play.

    You will notice that there is no one who sees it the way you do.  Not the Cardinals.  Not Cards fans (who have done their share of whining and crying foul today, so they might have piped up about this egregious act), no one in the press, no one on this board.

    Vic made a gamble with his positioning and then followed through on the chips falling where they did in that gamble.  

    I have played a lot of baseball, a lot of sports in general, and I care a lot about sportsmanship.  I just don't see one tiny bit of poor sportsmanship in that play.  The fact that it is a rare occorence for a potential out to be made at first base on a hit to right does not make it poor sportsmanship.

    [/QUOTE]


    when did I say I was ever gunned down at 1b on a single????

    you have to look at the entire context.  the point stands:  the odds of what Vic tried were remote yet the downside could be substantial.  and freese has power to RF - just ask the Rangers!  so it wasn't a scouting report.  It's just something that Vic likes to do.  It's generally a good idea but not in that situation.....

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Lester & Vaseline?

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:
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    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
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    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

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    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
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    In response to andrewmitch's comment:
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    You simply do not do something that can greatly tick off your opponent when the upside to doing so is pretty much nil.............

     



    I get that Andrew, I do.  I just think you are off base.  You try to get 27 outs however possible, and you dont give up potential outs, ever.  I do not see anything there that would make the Cardinals ticked off.  It wasnt a dirty play, take out slide, showing up a pitcher, just an aggressive unexpected attempt to get an out where there seemingly was none.  I do think the Cardinals will come out tonight ticked off ... because they are ticked off at themselves.  That play is a non-issue.  

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Are you sure you get that?  Because it was showing up a hitter, big time. 

    [/QUOTE]

    OK.  Let us parce this out.  Why?

     

    [/QUOTE]


    The guy got a base hit.  Vic was playing him shallow as if he had no chance of dumping one over his head.  After what happened to Neli that was just dumb.  Regardless, it was like Vic saying, you are not a fast runner and I am going to gun your butt down....And who are you to get a hit off of of us.....Have you ever been in a game where an opposing player did something like that to you or your team??  Maybe that is why it doesn't bug you......I dont know.

    [/QUOTE]

    OK.  I would guess he was playing him shallow based on the scouting report and also the fact that he is not a fast runner, thus making this potential out a possibility.  

    And, while I agree that it was like Vic saying "you are not a fast runnerand I am going to gun your butt down", I think you are projecting a negative thought that just isnt there when you say "who are you to get a hit off us".

    Look, I am sorry if you got gunned down by a right fielder at first base back in the day.  If it made you mad, I am sorry.  

    But, there is nothing even remotely disrespectful, cheap, pouring-it-on, nothing about that play.

    You will notice that there is no one who sees it the way you do.  Not the Cardinals.  Not Cards fans (who have done their share of whining and crying foul today, so they might have piped up about this egregious act), no one in the press, no one on this board.

    Vic made a gamble with his positioning and then followed through on the chips falling where they did in that gamble.  

    I have played a lot of baseball, a lot of sports in general, and I care a lot about sportsmanship.  I just don't see one tiny bit of poor sportsmanship in that play.  The fact that it is a rare occorence for a potential out to be made at first base on a hit to right does not make it poor sportsmanship.

    [/QUOTE]


    when did I say I was ever gunned down at 1b on a single????

    you have to look at the entire context.  the point stands:  the odds of what Vic tried were remote yet the downside could be substantial.  and freese has power to RF - just ask the Rangers!  so it wasn't a scouting report.  It's just something that Vic likes to do.  It's generally a good idea but not in that situation.....

    [/QUOTE]

    OK, as far as debating his positioning, I am more inclined to agree with you.  It was risky.

    And, I was just making a light-hearted joke about you being gunned down at first because I cannot, for the life of me, figure out why this troubles you so much on a sportsmanship level.

    You stand alone on this matter.

     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Lester & Vaseline?

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
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    In response to andrewmitch's comment:
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    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
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    In response to andrewmitch's comment:
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    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

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    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
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    In response to andrewmitch's comment:
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    You simply do not do something that can greatly tick off your opponent when the upside to doing so is pretty much nil.............

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I get that Andrew, I do.  I just think you are off base.  You try to get 27 outs however possible, and you dont give up potential outs, ever.  I do not see anything there that would make the Cardinals ticked off.  It wasnt a dirty play, take out slide, showing up a pitcher, just an aggressive unexpected attempt to get an out where there seemingly was none.  I do think the Cardinals will come out tonight ticked off ... because they are ticked off at themselves.  That play is a non-issue.  

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Are you sure you get that?  Because it was showing up a hitter, big time. 

    [/QUOTE]

    OK.  Let us parce this out.  Why?

     

    [/QUOTE]


    The guy got a base hit.  Vic was playing him shallow as if he had no chance of dumping one over his head.  After what happened to Neli that was just dumb.  Regardless, it was like Vic saying, you are not a fast runner and I am going to gun your butt down....And who are you to get a hit off of of us.....Have you ever been in a game where an opposing player did something like that to you or your team??  Maybe that is why it doesn't bug you......I dont know.

    [/QUOTE]

    OK.  I would guess he was playing him shallow based on the scouting report and also the fact that he is not a fast runner, thus making this potential out a possibility.  

    And, while I agree that it was like Vic saying "you are not a fast runnerand I am going to gun your butt down", I think you are projecting a negative thought that just isnt there when you say "who are you to get a hit off us".

    Look, I am sorry if you got gunned down by a right fielder at first base back in the day.  If it made you mad, I am sorry.  

    But, there is nothing even remotely disrespectful, cheap, pouring-it-on, nothing about that play.

    You will notice that there is no one who sees it the way you do.  Not the Cardinals.  Not Cards fans (who have done their share of whining and crying foul today, so they might have piped up about this egregious act), no one in the press, no one on this board.

    Vic made a gamble with his positioning and then followed through on the chips falling where they did in that gamble.  

    I have played a lot of baseball, a lot of sports in general, and I care a lot about sportsmanship.  I just don't see one tiny bit of poor sportsmanship in that play.  The fact that it is a rare occorence for a potential out to be made at first base on a hit to right does not make it poor sportsmanship.

    [/QUOTE]


    when did I say I was ever gunned down at 1b on a single????

    you have to look at the entire context.  the point stands:  the odds of what Vic tried were remote yet the downside could be substantial.  and freese has power to RF - just ask the Rangers!  so it wasn't a scouting report.  It's just something that Vic likes to do.  It's generally a good idea but not in that situation.....

    [/QUOTE]

    OK, as far as debating his positioning, I am more inclined to agree with you.  It was risky.

    [/QUOTE]


    But he positioned himself in way to give him a chance to gun a runner out a 1b which would be humiliating to the other team. 

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Lester & Vaseline?

    In response to LagunaJose's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I just thought of something that the two of you have not. Hasn't Big Papi been thrown out at first base by someone in the defensive shift from short RF several times this year. Isn't this the same since it is a defensive shift throwing out a slow baserunner? Papi seems to take it in stride but he can't be too pleased. 

    [/QUOTE]

    I did think about this Laguna.  And that is exactly what I mean,  it must be very frustrating to get thrown out at first, but it is certainly not because its poor form on the opponent's part.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Lester & Vaseline?

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:
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    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
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    In response to andrewmitch's comment:
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    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
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    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
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    In response to andrewmitch's comment:
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    You simply do not do something that can greatly tick off your opponent when the upside to doing so is pretty much nil.............

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I get that Andrew, I do.  I just think you are off base.  You try to get 27 outs however possible, and you dont give up potential outs, ever.  I do not see anything there that would make the Cardinals ticked off.  It wasnt a dirty play, take out slide, showing up a pitcher, just an aggressive unexpected attempt to get an out where there seemingly was none.  I do think the Cardinals will come out tonight ticked off ... because they are ticked off at themselves.  That play is a non-issue.  

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Are you sure you get that?  Because it was showing up a hitter, big time. 

    [/QUOTE]

    OK.  Let us parce this out.  Why?

     

    [/QUOTE]


    The guy got a base hit.  Vic was playing him shallow as if he had no chance of dumping one over his head.  After what happened to Neli that was just dumb.  Regardless, it was like Vic saying, you are not a fast runner and I am going to gun your butt down....And who are you to get a hit off of of us.....Have you ever been in a game where an opposing player did something like that to you or your team??  Maybe that is why it doesn't bug you......I dont know.

    [/QUOTE]

    OK.  I would guess he was playing him shallow based on the scouting report and also the fact that he is not a fast runner, thus making this potential out a possibility.  

    And, while I agree that it was like Vic saying "you are not a fast runnerand I am going to gun your butt down", I think you are projecting a negative thought that just isnt there when you say "who are you to get a hit off us".

    Look, I am sorry if you got gunned down by a right fielder at first base back in the day.  If it made you mad, I am sorry.  

    But, there is nothing even remotely disrespectful, cheap, pouring-it-on, nothing about that play.

    You will notice that there is no one who sees it the way you do.  Not the Cardinals.  Not Cards fans (who have done their share of whining and crying foul today, so they might have piped up about this egregious act), no one in the press, no one on this board.

    Vic made a gamble with his positioning and then followed through on the chips falling where they did in that gamble.  

    I have played a lot of baseball, a lot of sports in general, and I care a lot about sportsmanship.  I just don't see one tiny bit of poor sportsmanship in that play.  The fact that it is a rare occorence for a potential out to be made at first base on a hit to right does not make it poor sportsmanship.

    [/QUOTE]


    when did I say I was ever gunned down at 1b on a single????

    you have to look at the entire context.  the point stands:  the odds of what Vic tried were remote yet the downside could be substantial.  and freese has power to RF - just ask the Rangers!  so it wasn't a scouting report.  It's just something that Vic likes to do.  It's generally a good idea but not in that situation.....

    [/QUOTE]

    OK, as far as debating his positioning, I am more inclined to agree with you.  It was risky.

    [/QUOTE]


    But he positioned himself in way to give him a chance to gun a runner out a 1b which would be humiliating to the other team. 

    [/QUOTE]

    OK.  Here is the pitch of our inability to see eye to eye.  In my eyes, there is nothing remotely humiliating about this outcome.  Just frustrating.  

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Lester & Vaseline?

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
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    I'm the one talking in circles? What is so confusing about "if you have a chance to make an out you take it"? 

    I think most would agree that's a simple statement.  It was a close play, and we almost got an out. If anything that should be done more often. 

    Do you think a catcher trying to pick a runner of first is a "cheap" out as well?

    [/QUOTE]


    Of course I don't think trying to pick off a runner is cheap.  However, let's stay with YOUR example here.  Same situation.  2 men out.  top of 9.  up by 7.  Man on 1b.  Are you going to even bother to throw over there?   Are you even going to bother to throw the runner out?  Of course you aren't.  Because the run doesn't matter.  But according to your example there should be no such thing as catcher's indifference.  Which means that you do not always try and get an out every chance you have.  Do you try and throw out a guy from 2b on a single because you have a chance?  Or are there occassions when you'd be better off holding the guy to a 1b?  According to your logic, you would make the play at home every time.  Again, you are proving my assumption about you.......

    [/QUOTE]

    No that's not my logic, that's your narrative of my logic.  And that's also a different scanerio, if a catcher had a good arm and is known to throw to first and he catches the guy leaning....yeah go for it if it ends the game.

    I just don't think it's insulting. It's a game, they hit the ball and you try to get the guy out.

    If a right fielder throws out a guy at first because he is playing shallow and/or the guy isn't hustling so be it.  If a guy is slow to get out of the box, make him pay.  

    Baseball is about scoring runs and getting outs, and what Shane did is not unprecedented and I've never heard anyone ever call that Bush league until you did today.

    The notion that that play is Bush league is in your head.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from clouts. Show clouts's posts

    Re: Lester & Vaseline?

    In response to TheExaminer's comment:
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    In response to clouts' comment:
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    In response to S5's comment:
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    In response to clouts' comment:
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    Not sure about the eye roll comment....

    It's being talked about on the STL radio shows this morning.  I assume it will be newsworthy throughout the day.  I hope it's not true, and I don't believe it is.  But, it does look a little funky, agree?

    (rolls eyes)

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Larry Brown works for WHO?? 

    It looks to me like much ado about nothing. 

    1) If you look at Lester's glove, the stitching and cord surrounding the fingers and thumb are lighter in color than is the leather around it. That's the part Lester was touching.

    2) The shadows in the video make it impossible to see if there is anything foreign in that area.

    3) Vaseline is an opaque substance which would make it nearly impossible to see if it WERE there.

    4) It's impossible to determine texture from a video.

    This strikes me as a case of someone saying something, so it MUST be true.

    &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& 

    If you have any doubts about the credibility of Larry Brown you might want to look at this

    http://larrybrownsports.com/baseball/red-sox-lines-shaved-heads-2-chainz/208345

    which is part of the same string of articles on the WS.  And pay special attention to the very last paragraph.  Brown is obviously willing to say anything to demonize the Red Sox. 

    Brown has "sore loser" stapled to his forehead.   

     

    [/QUOTE]


     

    Ok, this is odd.  I'm a Sox fan, thought it was something to discuss on a discussion board.  Didn't expect a Patriot-fan like reaction, but it is what it is.  Regarding the color/texture, it looked shiney and has the same color as this:

     

     

    I am in no way saying he doctored the ball.  It seemed newsworthy, but I shoulda' known not to dare question anything.  Enjoy folks....

    [/QUOTE]

    Yon are in no way saying he doctored the ball when you claim he spread vaseline on his glove, hat, shirt, left ear and crotch area, being filmed as he did so. 

    [/QUOTE]


    Correct, I am not saying he did, nor did I ever.  I heard about it, it looked suspicious to be honest, and wanted all the high-and mighty ex-HS players who know all to get their opinion.  On a discussion board, no less.

    Next time, I'll sit back and read everyone whining about how much Buck and Tim hate the beloved old town team....

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Lester & Vaseline?

    I guess baseball god trumps the grand wizard of baseball knowledge

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Lester & Vaseline?

    In response to PrairieBayou's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    im sure there are a bunch of St. Louis fans who know their team was just outplayed last night, partially due to sloppy defense on their behalf.  if the tables were turned there would be plenty of fans in Boston pointing their fingers

    [/QUOTE]


    I was one of those fans that concluded that no item on a drug store shelf beat us last night.  The Red Sox didn't have to beat us last night.  We beat ourselves.  It was our most poorly played game this season and we did it on a national stage.

    [/QUOTE]


    And that's why we play seven games.  Any team no matter how good can have an off night, but the better team should win the seven game series.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Lester & Vaseline?

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    You simply do not do something that can greatly tick off your opponent when the upside to doing so is pretty much nil.............

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I get that Andrew, I do.  I just think you are off base.  You try to get 27 outs however possible, and you dont give up potential outs, ever.  I do not see anything there that would make the Cardinals ticked off.  It wasnt a dirty play, take out slide, showing up a pitcher, just an aggressive unexpected attempt to get an out where there seemingly was none.  I do think the Cardinals will come out tonight ticked off ... because they are ticked off at themselves.  That play is a non-issue.  

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Are you sure you get that?  Because it was showing up a hitter, big time. 

    [/QUOTE]

    OK.  Let us parce this out.  Why?

     

    [/QUOTE]


    The guy got a base hit.  Vic was playing him shallow as if he had no chance of dumping one over his head.  After what happened to Neli that was just dumb.  Regardless, it was like Vic saying, you are not a fast runner and I am going to gun your butt down....And who are you to get a hit off of of us.....Have you ever been in a game where an opposing player did something like that to you or your team??  Maybe that is why it doesn't bug you......I dont know.

    [/QUOTE]

    OK.  I would guess he was playing him shallow based on the scouting report and also the fact that he is not a fast runner, thus making this potential out a possibility.  

    And, while I agree that it was like Vic saying "you are not a fast runnerand I am going to gun your butt down", I think you are projecting a negative thought that just isnt there when you say "who are you to get a hit off us".

    Look, I am sorry if you got gunned down by a right fielder at first base back in the day.  If it made you mad, I am sorry.  

    But, there is nothing even remotely disrespectful, cheap, pouring-it-on, nothing about that play.

    You will notice that there is no one who sees it the way you do.  Not the Cardinals.  Not Cards fans (who have done their share of whining and crying foul today, so they might have piped up about this egregious act), no one in the press, no one on this board.

    Vic made a gamble with his positioning and then followed through on the chips falling where they did in that gamble.  

    I have played a lot of baseball, a lot of sports in general, and I care a lot about sportsmanship.  I just don't see one tiny bit of poor sportsmanship in that play.  The fact that it is a rare occorence for a potential out to be made at first base on a hit to right does not make it poor sportsmanship.

    [/QUOTE]


    when did I say I was ever gunned down at 1b on a single????

    you have to look at the entire context.  the point stands:  the odds of what Vic tried were remote yet the downside could be substantial.  and freese has power to RF - just ask the Rangers!  so it wasn't a scouting report.  It's just something that Vic likes to do.  It's generally a good idea but not in that situation.....

    [/QUOTE]

    OK, as far as debating his positioning, I am more inclined to agree with you.  It was risky.

    [/QUOTE]


    But he positioned himself in way to give him a chance to gun a runner out a 1b which would be humiliating to the other team. 

    [/QUOTE]

    OK.  Here is the pitch of our inability to see eye to eye.  In my eyes, there is nothing remotely humiliating about this outcome.  Just frustrating.  

    [/QUOTE]


    Again, it's all about the context.  I already conceded it's a good play on certain occassions.  This was not one of those times.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Lester & Vaseline?


    Farrell: "It was rosin"

    Pete Abraham @PeteAbe 5m

    Farrell said Lester uses rosin on his grip. Which is legal. ... "He sweats like a pig. He needs rosin."

    Pete Abraham @PeteAbe 4m

    Farrell categorically denied there was any substance other than rosin.

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Lester & Vaseline?

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    You simply do not do something that can greatly tick off your opponent when the upside to doing so is pretty much nil.............

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I get that Andrew, I do.  I just think you are off base.  You try to get 27 outs however possible, and you dont give up potential outs, ever.  I do not see anything there that would make the Cardinals ticked off.  It wasnt a dirty play, take out slide, showing up a pitcher, just an aggressive unexpected attempt to get an out where there seemingly was none.  I do think the Cardinals will come out tonight ticked off ... because they are ticked off at themselves.  That play is a non-issue.  

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Are you sure you get that?  Because it was showing up a hitter, big time. 

    [/QUOTE]

    OK.  Let us parce this out.  Why?

     

    [/QUOTE]


    The guy got a base hit.  Vic was playing him shallow as if he had no chance of dumping one over his head.  After what happened to Neli that was just dumb.  Regardless, it was like Vic saying, you are not a fast runner and I am going to gun your butt down....And who are you to get a hit off of of us.....Have you ever been in a game where an opposing player did something like that to you or your team??  Maybe that is why it doesn't bug you......I dont know.

    [/QUOTE]

    OK.  I would guess he was playing him shallow based on the scouting report and also the fact that he is not a fast runner, thus making this potential out a possibility.  

    And, while I agree that it was like Vic saying "you are not a fast runnerand I am going to gun your butt down", I think you are projecting a negative thought that just isnt there when you say "who are you to get a hit off us".

    Look, I am sorry if you got gunned down by a right fielder at first base back in the day.  If it made you mad, I am sorry.  

    But, there is nothing even remotely disrespectful, cheap, pouring-it-on, nothing about that play.

    You will notice that there is no one who sees it the way you do.  Not the Cardinals.  Not Cards fans (who have done their share of whining and crying foul today, so they might have piped up about this egregious act), no one in the press, no one on this board.

    Vic made a gamble with his positioning and then followed through on the chips falling where they did in that gamble.  

    I have played a lot of baseball, a lot of sports in general, and I care a lot about sportsmanship.  I just don't see one tiny bit of poor sportsmanship in that play.  The fact that it is a rare occorence for a potential out to be made at first base on a hit to right does not make it poor sportsmanship.

    [/QUOTE]


    when did I say I was ever gunned down at 1b on a single????

    you have to look at the entire context.  the point stands:  the odds of what Vic tried were remote yet the downside could be substantial.  and freese has power to RF - just ask the Rangers!  so it wasn't a scouting report.  It's just something that Vic likes to do.  It's generally a good idea but not in that situation.....

    [/QUOTE]

    OK, as far as debating his positioning, I am more inclined to agree with you.  It was risky.

    [/QUOTE]


    But he positioned himself in way to give him a chance to gun a runner out a 1b which would be humiliating to the other team. 

    [/QUOTE]

    OK.  Here is the pitch of our inability to see eye to eye.  In my eyes, there is nothing remotely humiliating about this outcome.  Just frustrating.  

    [/QUOTE]


    Again, it's all about the context.  I already conceded it's a good play on certain occassions.  This was not one of those times.

    [/QUOTE]

    Based on what? The fact that he was safe? It was a close play

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Lester & Vaseline?

    In response to J-BAY's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    Farrell: "It was rosin"

    [/QUOTE]


    I hope the play back the Kenny Rogers clip of him knocking over the camera guy!

     
  24. This post has been removed.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: Lester & Vaseline?


    Joe Strauss ‏@JoeStrauss 4m

    Cards GM John Mozeliak describes flap over Lester's glove as "a non-issue" and will not pursue it w/MLB

     
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