Lester Bigger Then Losing Ellsbury

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from razcreation. Show razcreation's posts

    Lester Bigger Then Losing Ellsbury

    What are the Red Sox doing? Lester is a proven AL SP in Boston- very good career numbers. Best Sox lefty I ever seen personally. Losing him is bigger then losing Ellsbury. If Lester becomes a free agent, he is going to the yankees. Yankees need Lester and they will pay. Mark my words he will be a Yankee if he hits free agency.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxpride34. Show redsoxpride34's posts

    Re: Lester Bigger Then Losing Ellsbury

    ya we absolutely have to sign lester, he would be a much bigger loss then ellsbury. Lester is the kind of guy that has earned a big contract, he has always been reliable/healthy and is a top notch pitcher who has proven himself in the AL east and wants to be in boston. He’s our ace and leader of the staff. 

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from razcreation. Show razcreation's posts

    Re: Lester Bigger Then Losing Ellsbury

    Losing Lester (we all know he will go to Yankees) would be biggest loss to Yankees since maybe Babe Ruth?

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from SportsGenius1. Show SportsGenius1's posts

    Re: Lester Bigger Then Losing Ellsbury

    If Lester isn't re-signed look to Owens the big lefty now pitching at AA to take his place. However I think the Sox and Lester's agent will hammer out a deal, and you can still look to Owens making the squad next season.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Lester Bigger Then Losing Ellsbury

    I agree that losing Lester is very different than losing Ellsbury.  But I don't understand "What are they doing??" as if the thing deal to be hammered out yesterday.  The Sox already screwed the pooch on a quick lock-up with their original low ball offer.  That was the window in which they could have gotten a semblance of "hometown discount".  Now, they are going to have to go long and $$$$$.  Without being on the inside of the negotiations, what is there to get anxious about?  I would rather they take their time and go through normal negotiation back and forth.  There is no rush at this point.  His performance this year has demanded top dollar, so its not like there is all that much bargaining power the Sox have.  but if they negotiate a year less for more annual $, that is worth negotiating.  As long as they get it done before he reaches FA, all good.  I don't get the panic. 

         
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from steven11. Show steven11's posts

    Re: Lester Bigger Then Losing Ellsbury

    Sean McAdams was talking about how the Yankee pitching injuries are going to drive the price up for Lester.  We would have won many of those one run games if Jacoby was still here.  Losing Lester will be tough.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Lester Bigger Then Losing Ellsbury

    In response to redsoxpride34's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    ya we absolutely have to sign lester, he would be a much bigger loss then ellsbury. Lester is the kind of guy that has earned a big contract, he has always been reliable/healthy and is a top notch pitcher who has proven himself in the AL east and wants to be in boston. He’s our ace and leader of the staff. 

    [/QUOTE]
    well, except for that "cancer" thing.

    Sox FO spit the bit big time on getting this done with a "hometown discount".  JH is now going to have to ante up.  and he will.  but i expect it will be after the season.  there is still time and the sox might just be happy enough waiting so as to avoid the risk of any injury that could happen between now and when exlusive negotiation rights are over.  in the meantime....i love having pitchers on my team that are in contract years......

    other names i have posted under:  none

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: Lester Bigger Then Losing Ellsbury

    In response to steven11's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Sean McAdams was talking about how the Yankee pitching injuries are going to drive the price up for Lester.  We would have won many of those one run games if Jacoby was still here.  Losing Lester will be tough.

    [/QUOTE]


    Losing Lester will absolutely be tough.  

    You have no way of knowing how many of those one run games we would have won if Jacoby were still here.  It's quite possible that we would have lost more of the one run games that we have won.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: Lester Bigger Then Losing Ellsbury

    Oh yeah, there's no doubt about where he will end up if he leaves here. None whatsoever.

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Lester Bigger Then Losing Ellsbury

    In response to steven11's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Sean McAdams was talking about how the Yankee pitching injuries are going to drive the price up for Lester.  We would have won many of those one run games if Jacoby was still here.  Losing Lester will be tough.

    [/QUOTE]
    his stats are better than i thought they were.  that being said...he has been CS 5 times already this year (only 4 all of last season).  losing a step already???

    as for your 1 run supposition....

    in 270 AB's holt has 38 runs scored.

    in 367 AB's ellsbury has 46 runs scored

    other names i have posted under:  none

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: Lester Bigger Then Losing Ellsbury

    In response to slasher9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to steven11's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Sean McAdams was talking about how the Yankee pitching injuries are going to drive the price up for Lester.  We would have won many of those one run games if Jacoby was still here.  Losing Lester will be tough.

    [/QUOTE]
    his stats are better than i thought they were.  that being said...he has been CS 5 times already this year (only 4 all of last season).  losing a step already???

    as for your 1 run supposition....

    in 270 AB's holt has 38 runs scored.

    in 367 AB's ellsbury has 46 runs scored

    other names i have posted under:  none

     

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]

    Wow! I had no idea Holt had that much of a direct impact. That's incredible.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Lester Bigger Then Losing Ellsbury

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:


    I agree that losing Lester is very different than losing Ellsbury.  But I don't understand "What are they doing??" as if the thing deal to be hammered out yesterday.  The Sox already screwed the pooch on a quick lock-up with their original low ball offer.  That was the window in which they could have gotten a semblance of "hometown discount".  Now, they are going to have to go long and $$$$$.  Without being on the inside of the negotiations, what is there to get anxious about?  I would rather they take their time and go through normal negotiation back and forth.  There is no rush at this point.  His performance this year has demanded top dollar, so its not like there is all that much bargaining power the Sox have.  but if they negotiate a year less for more annual $, that is worth negotiating.  As long as they get it done before he reaches FA, all good.  I don't get the panic. 


         



    the fact that it was such a low ball offer and that the Sox lets Ellsbury walk after a title year sends a terrible signal to the players on the squad...are they valued even if they do what they are brought here to do, win a title? you want to let that negativity spread because now timing doesnt matter? not wise imo


    lock him asap

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Lester Bigger Then Losing Ellsbury

    In response to SportsGenius1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    If Lester isn't re-signed look to Owens the big lefty now pitching at AA to take his place. However I think the Sox and Lester's agent will hammer out a deal, and you can still look to Owens making the squad next season.

    [/QUOTE]

     No one is counting on Owens to replace Lester who is a #1.  Not only has Owens not proved himself past Double-A but he hasn't been labeled more than a #3 by any scouts, I've heard the #2 label slapped on him once.  He's really really really good, but no one thinks he's going to be a top of the rotation starter.

    So I don't know how anyone can expect a rookie, who no scout in the world thinks is going to be a #1 starter is just going to jump in his first season and replace Jon Lester in the rotation.

    He needs to develop a more consistent 3rd pitch, NO ONE no matter how nasty their change up is, is ever going to be a #1 starter in the big leagues with a 89-91 MPH fastball and a plus change. 

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazy-world-of-troybrown. Show crazy-world-of-troybrown's posts

    Re: Lester Bigger Then Losing Ellsbury

    Last contract was so team friendly it's ridiculous. This is it for Lester, probably last one he signs.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from bosoxmal. Show bosoxmal's posts

    Re: Lester Bigger Then Losing Ellsbury

    In response to razcreation's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    What are the Red Sox doing? Lester is a proven AL SP in Boston- very good career numbers. Best Sox lefty I ever seen personally. Losing him is bigger then losing Ellsbury. If Lester becomes a free agent, he is going to the yankees. Yankees need Lester and they will pay. Mark my words he will be a Yankee if he hits free agency.

    [/QUOTE]


    Couldn't agree more.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Lester Bigger Then Losing Ellsbury

    In response to georom4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    I agree that losing Lester is very different than losing Ellsbury.  But I don't understand "What are they doing??" as if the thing deal to be hammered out yesterday.  The Sox already screwed the pooch on a quick lock-up with their original low ball offer.  That was the window in which they could have gotten a semblance of "hometown discount".  Now, they are going to have to go long and $$$$$.  Without being on the inside of the negotiations, what is there to get anxious about?  I would rather they take their time and go through normal negotiation back and forth.  There is no rush at this point.  His performance this year has demanded top dollar, so its not like there is all that much bargaining power the Sox have.  but if they negotiate a year less for more annual $, that is worth negotiating.  As long as they get it done before he reaches FA, all good.  I don't get the panic. 

     

         

    [/QUOTE]

    the fact that it was such a low ball offer and that the Sox lets Ellsbury walk after a title year sends a terrible signal to the players on the squad...are they valued even if they do what they are brought here to do, win a title? you want to let that negativity spread because now timing doesnt matter? not wise imo

     

     

    lock him asap

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]

    Nah.  Apples and oranges Georom.  Yeah, the lowball offer to Lester was poor form.  Agreed.  But you keep bringing up Ellsbury in the same breath.  Letting ellsbury walk sent no 'terrible signal' to players.  That was almost a foregone conclusion that was particular to ellsbury - a super talented but lacking-consistent-track-record star that was going to command waaaay more than what he was worth due to Scott Boras and his once-in-a-generation wheels.  No bad feelings there at all.  

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Lester Bigger Then Losing Ellsbury

    I entirely agree that Lester is more valuable than Ellsbury, but I also think that is a false comparison because Ellsbury to me was vastly overpriced (and likely to leave regardless of the Sox offer) for what the Sox needed. 

    I have said elsewhere I think the Sox should offer $100M for 5 years, maybe a tad more.  This would make him by far the highest paid player on the team, but it would not put him in the same bracket with some other highly paid starters who are getting more like $25M/year for more than 5 years. 

    What Lester has represented is consistency--2014 will be his seventh straight year of starting at least 31 games.   He was close to an ace his first three years when his WAR (wins above replacement) was consistently around 10th best in MLB, but in his last three years it has been more like 20th best or worse.  I just don't see giving a pitcher like that $160-180M, which is what I keep reading online. 

    I am not saying Lester can't get $160-180M, but am saying he is not worth that much.  If he likes Boston, $100M-$110M is enough. 

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Lester Bigger Then Losing Ellsbury

    They need to do what it takes to sign Lester. The situation has been badly handled so far, but it is something that needs to be done. As for Ellsbury, I don't think they had any intention of matching the Yankees offer. So , you really can't compare that to the situation with Lester. By the way, we really should try to remain realistic and objective about these things. You could argue that Ellsbury is not worth the money, but to say that he would not have helped to win some games defies all logic and common sense. You could argue that Lester will break down over the course of his next contract, but to deny that he is our best pitcher and one of the best in the game defies all logic and common sense. I think we will sign Lester. I would be very disappointed if we do not.

    Stabbed by Foulke.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Lester Bigger Then Losing Ellsbury

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    They need to do what it takes to sign Lester. The situation has been badly handled so far, but it is something that needs to be done. As for Ellsbury, I don't think they had any intention of matching the Yankees offer. So , you really can't compare that to the situation with Lester. By the way, we really should try to remain realistic and objective about these things. You could argue that Ellsbury is not worth the money, but to say that he would not have helped to win some games defies all logic and common sense. You could argue that Lester will break down over the course of his next contract, but to deny that he is our best pitcher and one of the best in the game defies all logic and common sense. I think we will sign Lester. I would be very disappointed if we do not.

    Stabbed by Foulke.

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]

    I have yet to hear from anyone, even the staunchest defenders of letting Ellsbury walk, that Ellbsury would not have helped win more ballgames thus far in 2014.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Lester Bigger Then Losing Ellsbury

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    They need to do what it takes to sign Lester. The situation has been badly handled so far, but it is something that needs to be done. As for Ellsbury, I don't think they had any intention of matching the Yankees offer. So , you really can't compare that to the situation with Lester. By the way, we really should try to remain realistic and objective about these things. You could argue that Ellsbury is not worth the money, but to say that he would not have helped to win some games defies all logic and common sense. You could argue that Lester will break down over the course of his next contract, but to deny that he is our best pitcher and one of the best in the game defies all logic and common sense. I think we will sign Lester. I would be very disappointed if we do not.

    Stabbed by Foulke.

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]

    I have yet to hear from anyone, even the staunchest defenders of letting Ellsbury walk, that Ellbsury would not have helped win more ballgames thus far in 2014.

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]   Read back in this thread.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: Lester Bigger Then Losing Ellsbury

    the fact that it was such a low ball offer and that the Sox lets Ellsbury walk after a title year sends a terrible signal to the players on the squad...are they valued even if they do what they are brought here to do, win a title? you want to let that negativity spread because now timing doesnt matter? not wise imo

    So because Ellsbury helped win a title, they should have given him whatever he wanted?

    Completely different situations and not even worthy of comparison.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazy-world-of-troybrown. Show crazy-world-of-troybrown's posts

    Re: Lester Bigger Then Losing Ellsbury

    Ellsbury won 2 Titles. With the Mariners at 92 million in payroll, Lester might want to return closer to home too. Forget Price, keep your Prospects, with Walker, sign Lester, they would have a heck of a staff next year.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Lester Bigger Then Losing Ellsbury

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    They need to do what it takes to sign Lester. The situation has been badly handled so far, but it is something that needs to be done. As for Ellsbury, I don't think they had any intention of matching the Yankees offer. So , you really can't compare that to the situation with Lester. By the way, we really should try to remain realistic and objective about these things. You could argue that Ellsbury is not worth the money, but to say that he would not have helped to win some games defies all logic and common sense. You could argue that Lester will break down over the course of his next contract, but to deny that he is our best pitcher and one of the best in the game defies all logic and common sense. I think we will sign Lester. I would be very disappointed if we do not.

    Stabbed by Foulke.

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]

    I have yet to hear from anyone, even the staunchest defenders of letting Ellsbury walk, that Ellbsury would not have helped win more ballgames thus far in 2014.

    [/QUOTE]


    well you must have me on ignore because i posted many times using Ellsbury current stats that he would be the best overall hitter on th Sox and given the mediocrity of both teams, his being in CF playing for the Sox swaps last place for 2nd place or whatever the yankees are at this point

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Lester Bigger Then Losing Ellsbury

    In response to georom4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    They need to do what it takes to sign Lester. The situation has been badly handled so far, but it is something that needs to be done. As for Ellsbury, I don't think they had any intention of matching the Yankees offer. So , you really can't compare that to the situation with Lester. By the way, we really should try to remain realistic and objective about these things. You could argue that Ellsbury is not worth the money, but to say that he would not have helped to win some games defies all logic and common sense. You could argue that Lester will break down over the course of his next contract, but to deny that he is our best pitcher and one of the best in the game defies all logic and common sense. I think we will sign Lester. I would be very disappointed if we do not.

    Stabbed by Foulke.

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]

    I have yet to hear from anyone, even the staunchest defenders of letting Ellsbury walk, that Ellbsury would not have helped win more ballgames thus far in 2014.

    [/QUOTE]


    well you must have me on ignore because i posted many times using Ellsbury current stats that he would be the best overall hitter on th Sox and given the mediocrity of both teams, his being in CF playing for the Sox swaps last place for 2nd place or whatever the yankees are at this point

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]

    Well you must have ME on ignore, or as usual, not really reading what is posted, because you are saying exactly what I said - no one has said ellsbury wouldn't account for more wins thus far in 2014.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Lester Bigger Then Losing Ellsbury

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:


    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]


    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    They need to do what it takes to sign Lester. The situation has been badly handled so far, but it is something that needs to be done. As for Ellsbury, I don't think they had any intention of matching the Yankees offer. So , you really can't compare that to the situation with Lester. By the way, we really should try to remain realistic and objective about these things. You could argue that Ellsbury is not worth the money, but to say that he would not have helped to win some games defies all logic and common sense. You could argue that Lester will break down over the course of his next contract, but to deny that he is our best pitcher and one of the best in the game defies all logic and common sense. I think we will sign Lester. I would be very disappointed if we do not.


    Stabbed by Foulke.





    [object HTMLDivElement]


    I have yet to hear from anyone, even the staunchest defenders of letting Ellsbury walk, that Ellbsury would not have helped win more ballgames thus far in 2014.


    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]   Read back in this thread.


    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]


    OK, fair enough, I guess.  That was specific to 1 run game outcome differences, but whatever.  i conced my point and change my No One to "no one".   But seriously, "no one" who defends letting go of Ellsbury does so in the context of It Makes the Sox Better in 2014 To Not Have Ellsbury.

     
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